Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Part 2

[lil_janie]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

In danger to be totaly off topic...
Characters of this show are developed much better then in the other two CSI shows. At least that's what I think (I don't even watch other ones any more, only LV). I like that Greg's all grown up too. The playfulness is still there with some comments and things he/they do (like when Nick and Hodges hit mail boxes as an 'experiment'), but that is normal too. We are not always serious.

I was not aware of that other thread. Still new, and never really learned to use the 'search' option properly, sorry. Sometimes I aks the dumbest of questions, though I should know better (I am old enough to know better, oh well). And lately I was wondering about relashionships between people. I wonder why they are mostly single (except the coroners). Working hours aside, it is possible to find someone understanding, who will love you no matter what. It is natural for them to fall in love with each other as well, deparment policy or not. They trust each other with their lives, they know each other well, and they all have been through so much (some more than others). So it's okay for Cath to get Vartann (I like that ship), for Sara to get Grissom (they are pretty much alike believe it or not - workaholics, passionate..., so I like that ship too, and it is canon after all), Wendy and Hodges spend a lot of time in the lab together (that one looks possible), Greg and Nick had been friends for long, they are now depending on each other more than ever (after Warrick, and in an office together...).
As much as I enjoy the criminal side of the show, that is why I started to watch it after all, lately I enjoy the 'human' one even more. That is saying something about me too, but that's not the issue here, I have already ranted too much as it is :lol:

Admins, mods, please forgive me if I broke any rule, or if I got too much off topic. I wan't do it any more. I was just saying this other stuff because of the ships, really

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

I wonder why they are mostly single (except the coroners). Working hours aside, it is possible to find someone understanding, who will love you no matter what. It is natural for them to fall in love with each other as well, deparment policy or not. They trust each other with their lives, they know each other well, and they all have been through so much (some more than others).

I've noticed on a lot of cop shows, not just the CSI ones (look at NCIS, L&O, Criminal Minds, etc), the majority of characters are single. Its like they think that cops/criminalists don't have a life outside their jobs. :lol: I don't think they all have to be paired with each other, but they could have someone. I don't like April with Nick though. I don't like April period. :lol: But we don't necessarily have to see Nick with anyone, just have him mention a girlfriend now and then. And if they want to keep it as April, either recast to someone who has more chemistry with George/Nick or only have the April character mentioned and never shown. :lol:

 

[lil_janie]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

I am at a loss with the April character. When she was mentioned for the first time (here somewhere, in a spoiler I think), I thought that it was a real romance thing. So, I watched the epp... And saw nothing in particular. I remember thinking - what, this is no love, no nothing! So, I agree with you. There is no chemistry between them, and it would be better to just mention her, or to get another character. She was mentioned what... One time? I can't remember, did Nick ever talked about her?

And yes, they do not have to be with one another. I think that I didn't express myself correctly - English is not my first language, so I do make mistakes. I just ment that if they can't have someone 'on the side', some of them can have one of their own. Ship or no ship, like I said before (and I am not the most romantic person in the world, I don't watch that kind of shows/movies, and all that) their characters should have someone. Mentioned, or shown from time to time. Poeple, most of them, are not hermits. We are social creatures, and we tend to 'mate for life' or for some time at least. So, if they are mentioning bits of their privite lives in the show, love should be in there somewhere.

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Concerning the same-sex coupling of main characters that was mentioned, I don't think anything overt would ever be shown. Probably something to do with American audiences being squeamish with it. However, I believe it was David Rambo (a writer for the show) who said that he liked to incorporate a subtext into the relationship between Nick and Greg. This subtext is what primarily fuels the shippers of that particular pairing.

When it comes to keeping the main characters single, I think that for the most part it enables the writers to create drama whenever they want to. Nick and the hooker, Sara and Hank, Warrick and the lounge singer, Warrick and Tina, Warrick and Catherine, Catherine and the club manager, Catherine and Novak, Grissom and Teri, Grissom and Lady Heather, Grissom and Sofia, Grissom and Sara... damn, Grissom's a playa :lol:. Basically, and this applies to most crime dramas in general, having a main character single give them a chance to delve into storylines that would otherwise be unavailable.

 

[electra]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

I agree that is natural to find your partner at work,especially if you work 24/7 like our CSIs do.I just found Sara and Grissom too fatherly for my taste.I can not imagine anything passionate between them.

Catherine and Vartan is something else becouse she oozes sex apppeal with anyone.

 

[Desertwind]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

So far there's been no real ship since the marriage of Grissom and Sara, & what a romantic paring, so sizzling, just the looks between them burnt through the screen. And finally after all those years, they are together. I hope they do find something between Cath and Vartann, to show the viewers, or Nick and a new love interest, And then Greg, who's crazy about girls period. He's flirted with practically every female who's ever been on CSI. And hopefully beings Dr. Ray has on a wedding ring, the writers will show us his wife. :thumbsup:

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Concerning the same-sex coupling of main characters that was mentioned, I don't think anything overt would ever be shown. Probably something to do with American audiences being squeamish with it. However, I believe it was David Rambo (a writer for the show) who said that he liked to incorporate a subtext into the relationship between Nick and Greg. This subtext is what primarily fuels the shippers of that particular pairing.

I don't remember ever hearing David Rambo say that (if anyone knows where please link me to this, I'd like to read it). That would indicate that these two characters are in a relationship and that has never been shown on the show. I know people slash them and I don't have a problem with that, but I don't believe they would be put 'subtext' between two characters when there is no relationship on the show. However, I only see a brotherly relationship between them. Warrick and Nick were always like Greg's big brothers.

*sighs* I really miss Warrick and Nick's friendship.

I don't ship or slash anyone, but I do read a lot of Gil/Nick fanfics. After reading those, no wonder Grissom treated Nick so badly at times. :lol: (I could find a lot of subtext between those two, too) Nick and Catherine too.

As for ships, sorry, I still don't see nor will I ever see the pairing of Grissom and Sara. To me there is absolutely NO romantic chemistry between these two. No sexual tension, nothing!!!!!! Now Grissom with Lady Heather? Total sexual chemistry. If they were going to pair Grissom with anyone it should have been Lady Heather. He had romantic chemistry with Teri Miller, as well. And, of course, Catherine, but I don't think they should have gone that way with her.

I agree with GNRF, if Nick and April are going to get together, please please recast her. There was no chemistry between the actors. I mean he had more chemistry with Kristy, the prostitute, than the actor who plays April.

If they are going to get Catherine and Vartann together, I wouldn't mind. She deserves someone to treat her decently. I liked her with that city inspector guy too (his name escapes me at the moment).

Yup, Greg needs a girl. It's too bad that they got rid of Riley because those two had great chemistry together. Now I'm not saying as a couple, necessarily, but the writer's could have had fun with them.

Actually, Grissom and Sara was not the first ship on the show. They were going to have Nick and Catherine together, long before the character of Sara was ever thought of. However, the scenes with them making out were cut and they didn't go with it. I'm glad, because that would have just been stereotypical Hollywood at play there. However, I do love the way Nick and Catherine play off each other.

In any case, ship and/or slash anyone you want. Whether they are together on the show nor not, its fun to fantasize. :lol:

 

[happyharper13]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

So far there's been no real ship since the marriage of Grissom and Sara, & what a romantic paring, so sizzling, just the looks between them burnt through the screen. And finally after all those years, they are together. I hope they do find something between Cath and Vartann, to show the viewers, or Nick and a new love interest, And then Greg, who's crazy about girls period. He's flirted with practically every female who's ever been on CSI. And hopefully beings Dr. Ray has on a wedding ring, the writers will show us his wife. :thumbsup:

Yup, Greg needs a girl. It's too bad that they got rid of Riley because those two had great chemistry together. Now I'm not saying as a couple, necessarily, but the writer's could have had fun with them.

I understand what you're saying, speedy, and maybe this is just an English major's pet peeve, but I really wish we could refrain from automatically saying that what he (or any guy) needs is a girl. (And the same goes for female characters needing a guy, though obviously that hasn't seemed like so much of an issue.) Regardless of whether you support Nick/Greg or not, saying that it's a girl that Greg needs is still, IMO, pushing an unnecessary heteronormative perspective on the whole discussion. It's pretty easy to just opt for a nice, blanket politically correct term like 'significant other' instead, is it not?

 

[Desertwind]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Beings this is a 'debate', William Petersen said many times that "Jorja Fox was brought on CSI to be Grissom's love interest" and that never changed. And if the writers were for Nick and Cath it never came to fruition, & never showed to the fans~ I was talking about the ship' that sailed. They did go through some rocky times, both of them, but his heart and hers were always one true image, & the mega GSR fans knew would happen and it did:bolian: & who saw this from the beginning. Fans who didn't see the chemistry is their opinion, and their view, and that's fine, because no matter what, they did end up together regardless of who wanted what. I realized that they were the ones who made the decision to be together, and it's their choice not someones else's. And BTW right before "One To Go" aired, WP said again 'in my final arc Sara is involved' big red flag there. And on the other woman he flirted with or seemed interested in, were just a novelty at the time and never marriage material, if so, then he'd be with one of them. And on the other guys, I've always seen Greg yakking about girls and Nick as well, is this a giant cover-up?, I think not, their just good buddies nothing more that I ever saw

 

[myfuturecsi]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

I've always seen Greg yaking about girls and Nick as well, is this a giant cover-up?, I think not, their just good buddies nothing more that I ever saw

For the first time ever, DW, I agree with you. Greg flirted with Sara for years until he realized she wanted to be with Grissom. I remember the scene where Greg asked her what Hank had that he didn't. Then he told her she smelt like death and that a real man wouldn't care. Then he realized Sara's heart was with Grissom and alas they became good buddies.

Although I think a Sara and Greg ship would have been very cute to watch.

There was never a cover up because the way I see it, the writers never spent a great deal of time on character development other than Grissom. The stories are heavily centred on the crimes and romance was secondary-and even then those went to the main character-Grissom.

I understand what you're saying, speedy, and maybe this is just an English major's pet peeve, but I really wish we could refrain from automatically saying that what he (or any guy) needs is a girl. (And the same goes for female characters needing a guy, though obviously that hasn't seemed like so much of an issue.) Regardless of whether you support Nick/Greg or not, saying that it's a girl that Greg needs is still, IMO, pushing an unnecessary heteronormative perspective on the whole discussion. It's pretty easy to just opt for a nice, blanket politically correct term like 'significant other' instead, is it not?

It is, but there was nothing wrong with what Speedy said. She has a right to say 'needs a girl' as much as someone else as a right to say 'needs a dog' right? There's no hetrosexualism agenda going on as far as I know. A person can say what they think a character needs and Speedy simply said he needs a girl. If you want to say Greg needs Hodges, go for it!



As for April, the actress wasn't a problem, but I think I might have appreciated April had she been older. I'm not sure why the writers have never thought have pairing Nick with an older woman.

 

[happyharper13]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Beings this is a 'debate', William Petersen said many times that "Jorja Fox was brought on CSI to be Grissom's love interest" and that never changed. And if the writers were for Nick and Cath it never came to fruition, & never showed to the fans~ I was talking about the ship' that sailed. They did go through some rocky times, both of them, but his heart and hers were always one true image, & the mega GSR fans knew would happen and it did:bolian: & who saw this from the beginning. Fans who didn't see the chemistry is their opinion, and their view, and that's fine, because no matter what, they did end up together regardless of who wanted what. I realized that they were the ones who made the decision to be together, and it's their choice not someones else's. And BTW right before "One To Go" aired, WP said again 'in my final arc Sara is involved' big red flag there. And on the other woman he flirted with or seemed interested in, were just a novelty at the time and never marriage material, if so, then he'd be with one of them. And on the other guys, I've always seen Greg yaking about girls and Nick as well, is this a giant cover-up?, I think not, their just good buddies nothing more that I ever saw

Like I said very clearly in my last post, the issue isn't whether Nick and Greg are more than friends . It's about writing as if strict heterosexuality is the only option for all characters. Characters (just the same way as regular people :thumbsup can talk about one gender and still be attracted to another gender as well. And Greg "yaking" (I'm assuming you mean talking or yakking, even though the latter hardly fits Greg's behavior) about women is not proof that he's solely attracted to women. I have more than enough friends who can talk til the sun comes in about the opposite gender, but who, at the end of the night, still have significant others of or at least attractions to members of the same gender. Like I said, I am not asking that you support Nick/Greg, but only that you do not impose a limiting heteronormative perspective on the dialogue in this thread, as, personally, I find it offensive.

ETA: to respond to mfc's post:

I understand what you're saying, speedy, and maybe this is just an English major's pet peeve, but I really wish we could refrain from automatically saying that what he (or any guy) needs is a girl. (And the same goes for female characters needing a guy, though obviously that hasn't seemed like so much of an issue.) Regardless of whether you support Nick/Greg or not, saying that it's a girl that Greg needs is still, IMO, pushing an unnecessary heteronormative perspective on the whole discussion. It's pretty easy to just opt for a nice, blanket politically correct term like 'significant other' instead, is it not?

It is, but there was nothing wrong with what Speedy said. She has a right to say 'needs a girl' as much as someone else as a right to say 'needs a dog' right? There's no hetrosexualism agenda going on as far as I know. A person can say what they think a character needs and Speedy simply said he needs a girl. If you want to say Greg needs Hodges, go for it!

Last I checked, this debate thread is about specific ships -- i.e. pairings of 2 actual characters. As such, Greg/Girl is not actually up for debate, which is exactly why I am asking that people try to use gender-neutral terms when throwing out phrases like '[Character A] needs a girl/boy'.

To a "heterosexuality agenda", again, I fail to see why politics need to be brought in here. Nonetheless, if you are stating that 'Greg needs a girl', the implication is that Greg should have a significant other, and that the only qualification for this significant other is 'female'. So, yes, I would see an agenda in that. I'm not saying that that's even what speedy meant, or that she was trying to force an "agenda" of any sort; I understand how that would slip out, much the same way as most people would assume that if someone had a wedding band on, it corresponded to a spouse of the opposite sex. I don't think speedy had any malicious or homophobic intentions in her post. Nonetheless, that doesn't negate the fact that there are clear implications to a statement like 'Character A needs someone of the opposite sex'.


Really, I'm not trying to start another debate (within this debate thread :lol. All I'm asking is for people to be mindful of other perspectives and try to be a bit more politically correct.

And I fail to understand why saying 'significant other' or a similarly gender-neutral term rather than 'boy' or 'girl' would be that much of a hardship for anyone here.

 

[happyharper13]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Sorry. Double post.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

I don't think that subtext implies that two characters are together. One defintion I found for it said "reading between the lines". Not everyone reads the same things between the line. So what could mean "these two are in love" to one person may mean absolutely nothing to another or it may mean "these two are like friends/siblings". Subtext is just subtle little things that shippers could take to mean something, but that non-shippers will see as completely innocent. Like for example, if one character is constantly standing too close to another... and when I say too close I mean so close they could kiss the other without moving much more. Or if one character happens to look at another when they mention the word "love". That can be viewed as subtext. To shippers, it's fuel to add to the flame/spark that they see between two characters. To non-shippers, it looks pretty innocent.

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Concerning the same-sex coupling of main characters that was mentioned, I don't think anything overt would ever be shown. Probably something to do with American audiences being squeamish with it. However, I believe it was David Rambo (a writer for the show) who said that he liked to incorporate a subtext into the relationship between Nick and Greg. This subtext is what primarily fuels the shippers of that particular pairing.

I don't remember ever hearing David Rambo say that (if anyone knows where please link me to this, I'd like to read it). That would indicate that these two characters are in a relationship and that has never been shown on the show. I know people slash them and I don't have a problem with that, but I don't believe they would be put 'subtext' between two characters when there is no relationship on the show. However, I only see a brotherly relationship between them. Warrick and Nick were always like Greg's big brothers.

I really wish I could remember where I read that. Hell, I might even be remembering it wrong. I'm 90... no... 85% certain he said something concerning subtext and it somehow related to Nick and/or Greg.

Aw hell, just disregard everything I say.

I suck as a source. :lol:

What I meant by subtext is exactly what GRNF said. Some see it, some don't, and what you see is open to interpretation.

Since we seem to be discussing every possible ship ever at the moment, I'd like to bring up what I see as a recent return of Sandle (Greg/Sara). In "Long Ball" (Worst. Ep. This Season), there was a scene with Greg talking to Sara about her marriage. Now, the subtext there seems to have been translated two ways. 1. Greg was just being his friendly self and checking to see if Sara was happy (and possibly voicing fan-questions). 2. He's still interested in her and seeing if there's an opening (my preferred interpretation).

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

You know I really get sick and tired of everyone bringing up homophobia because they don't slash Nick/Greg (and no that's not everyone who does slash Nick/Greg). Yes, I've been accused of that and attacked about it. I've been purposely baited on this board by other members as well as by moderators on this board because of it.

No, as HappyHarper said, I wasn't trying to be malicious or homophobic in my post. How the hell do we get me being malicious or homphobic by me saying that Greg needs a girl?

I am NOT nor have ever been homophobic. I am sure my homosexual friends can attest to that. Frankly, people should not use the term homophobia so loosely. I have one friend, who is gay, and he's been accused of being a homophobic.

This is a debate/DISLIKE a ship thread. Which means I can dislike a slash pairing and I should not be accused of being homophobic because of it.

As I stated in my previous thread. If I was going to slash anyone it would be Nick/Gil. I've even written fanfics about those two.

Sorry off topic and sorry for the rant.

Sorry, but I can't see the pairing of Nick/Greg. That's me. Even if they were a couple on the show, I still couldn't see it.

Just like I can't see Grissom and Sara together.

IMO, if Nick was gay he would be with Grissom or maybe even Warrick, not Greg. Again, that's me.

Now me saying that Greg needs a girl, is based on what has ACTUALLY happened on the show. He has always talked about girls and even showed Nick the DNA of the girl that he wants to have his children. He has never mentioned an attraction to men. Now that doesn't mean he doesn't have it or couldn't have it, but it has not been shown on the show.

As for the writing, I can't help what the writer's actually write, but they have never written nor indicated that these characters are nothing but hetero, ven in the character's descriptions. But that can change at anytime. If I'm wrong, than please point out where a main character has indicated an attraction to the same sex?

Now I wish they had a homosexual or even a bi-sexual character on there. I know they were going to bring out that Bobby Dawson is gay, I wish they did.

Praetor, no problem if you can't find it. :lol: It would have been interesting to read.

HappyHarper, you are correct. This is a thread for actual ships.

Desertwind, they may not have shown the making out scene between Nick and Catherine, but they did 'reference' to it in, 'Caged'. When Greg said as he was speaking to Nick: GREG: And I know what you all think of me -- I'm just another pretty face who got to where I am by sleeping with Catherine. and then Nick looks at Greg like he's saying 'just shut-up'.

I think I'll just stay out of this thread. As I'm sure it will spread like wildfire what I've said here and the crap will start again.

However, I do apologize if I offended anyone.