Danny and Lindsay--Was it a mistake?

[CSI Cupcake]

Curiosity, I think your response more accurately describes how I feel than my own does. I realize they (tptb) took a chance by incorporating Anna's real life pregnancy into the show and I do think that it was rushed.

That being said, I can't say that the attempts by the writers to show them as a married couple bother me while watching the show because, let's face it, they are married. When Danny called out "Lindsay Messer" to get her attention, I found that in keeping with his calling her "Lindsay Monroe" in S3 when they had the chemistry talk in the hallway.

I think they are starting to settle down into the dynamic and seem a lot more comfortable than they were at the beginning of the season. I guess we will see in the finale just how in tune they are with one another after a season of ups and downs.

 

[talkingtocactus]

^ i had a bonkers thought about the cliffhanger thing. surely the fact that they've reminded us at least once an ep that danny & lindsay are married has to mean something right? so maybe the big uh-oh moment will come when we find out that the marriage minister (or whoever does marriages) was actually shane casey in disguise and so *gasp* they're not actually married at all and the whole season's been based on a lie! ha! that would surprise everyone.... :lol:

[/silly]

 

[Ghawazee]

I think whatever happens in the season finale PLEASE (i am hoping and praying) they become into my new fav couple:wtf: because so far they have failed in provoking my interest:shifty:

I disagree with certain post above, because after watching MANY shows during MANY years, i can tell there is chemistry or there is NOT. It's not something you can build as a house of cards and meanwhile you can say it's subjective (which it is) also it's true there is a major or minor perception of it. So if there is natural chemistry, many people (i don't say all) will mention it in the same way it will be ignored if there is not.

Also i hope an individual story for Lindsay which doesn't include Danny and the main reason is we have had an overload of a character depending on another for so many years and it's time she gets some decent development which doesn't include Dannyyyyyy's figure:wtf:

The more individual stories they get, the better will be for both of them and for those who are not fond of them as a couple:wtf: because we have had enough with The Danny and Lindsay Horror Show:vulcan:

If a couple was mandatory, you already know what couple i would have chosen instead but if it was necessary a second couple i would have preferred Lindsay paired up with Sheldon. They work nice together and considering Lindsay's expositions and all, they would have fit much better and probably i would be one of their supporters now


Again, here there is someone hoping this couple becomes interesting to watch

GAH!

 

[CSIDOLL]

I voted that it wasnt a mistake. I always liked them in past few seasons as i loved the banter and the way they interacted together but i feel in this season, you dont see any of this.

As others have already said above, the writers have rushed their relationship with the pregnancy and marriage. I would love them to go back to basics and interact the way they use to and show the couple we used to like. Have fun with the characters.

I also would like to see them working separately. Lindsay's demonstrations always make me smile and i think it would be great to see more of this lindsay. Let her have her own story or case that lets you relate to her.

Sorry if ive written anythin that someone else has said. Havent read the whole tread through, so i apologise if ive quoted another member.

 

[Maya316]

^ To Ghawazee: Agree with most of your post, and put me down in the category of those who think DL don't have the chemistry, but to be fair...

after watching MANY shows during MANY years, i can tell there is chemistry or there is NOT. It's not something you can build as a house of cards and meanwhile you can say it's subjective (which it is) also it's true there is a major or minor perception of it. So if there is natural chemistry, many people (i don't say all) will mention it in the same way it will be ignored if there is not.

This the part I have a problem with: I've seen too many people talk about chemistry between any same two characters in very different ways, to think there's a majority perception of anything about it. That's the whole point about it being subjective; ie, I've seen loads of people who think the chemistry between D/L is there, loads more who think the chemistry was there but hasn't been since S4/S5, tons who think the chemistry only came after S4/S5, loads who think the chemistry was never there to begin with -- and I've seen a similar phenomenon for Mac/Stella, Eric/Calleigh, pretty much any major ship I've ever come across on the internet.

 

[talkingtocactus]

^ exactly what she said. i think it's very subjective indeed, and there are different kinds of chemistry that people read in different ways, hence some people seeing mac and stella as obviously leaning towards romance and others seeing them as really good friends, and others not seeing anything at all. it also explains real life relationships, why some people see things in others that someone else doesn't see, etc etc. perceptions of romantic notions (or otherwise) are deeply personal and everyone picks up on different things.

same goes for DL - i actually thought there was some chemistry between them when lindsay first started, in season 2 she and danny had quite the little flirty rapport going, but for some reason it got lost, perhaps because they rushed the whole marriage/babies thing, i don't know, but it's gone away, imho. but that's not to say other people can't see something.

 

[Ghawazee]

CSI Doll-->

As others have already said above, the writers have rushed their relationship with the pregnancy and marriage. I would love them to go back to basics and interact the way they use to and show the couple we used to like. Have fun with the characters.

I wouldn't have problems with their crap if AT LEAST writers payed attention to my ship. Unfortunately it never happens

Just when you think something good is gonna start with Mac and Stella, they go backwards. And when you ask why, articles suddenly appear "This is not a soap opera. We can't put them together. We already have DL (crap) there":angryrazz: Oh yeah, because DL is not a soap opera already

Maya--->

This the part I have a problem with: I've seen too many people talk about chemistry between any same two characters in very different ways, to think there's a majority perception of anything about it. That's the whole point about it being subjective; ie, I've seen loads of people who think the chemistry between D/L is there, loads more who think the chemistry was there but hasn't been since S4/S5, tons who think the chemistry only came after S4/S5, loads who think the chemistry was never there to begin with -- and I've seen a similar phenomenon for Mac/Stella, Eric/Calleigh, pretty much any major ship I've ever come across on the internet.

Hey! *Débora waves to Maya *

I should have added not only a major perception from fans but it also a general perception of chemistry working on screen.

I mean, do you remember "Speed"??? Beyond any critic, there was a major perception Sandra and Keanu had chemistry in there. Of course, maybe there were people who didn't think like that. however there was a MAJOR perception they worked nice together and producers kept that in mind so they gave them a chance to be together again in The Lake House.
(And if you ask me, they dido look wonderful there too).The same happened with Leo Di Caprio and Kate Winslet, no matter if critics liked or not their perfomances.

But when Sandra filmed "Speed 2" she didn't have the same "chemistry" or better said, the same "dynamic" if you want to use another term, with the actor who portrayed her fiancé (beyond the fact i think that sequel was horrendous:lol

So, yeah, there is a subjective part of all this but there is also a real thing that is reflected on screen

so what do i expect as a viewer?

*Individual episode for Lindsay, not including Danny AT ALL:wtf:

*Individual stories for Danny not including Lindsay AT ALL (he has payed the conquences enough during several years:vulcan

*I suppose she is more than the "bright girl" of the lab. Make her human, with HUMAN FAILURES. So far Mac has had the soft spot on her:scream: Stella always has been the only one who treated her in the right way:wtf:

*Probably i have been the only one who enojyed Lindsay as a witness. Without being so personal, there is a material to work in there

*Please not more of DL Horror Show. I can't have my ship then why is so necessary to rescue this pair over and over again Why is so necessary to show they are a Happy Family?:wtf:

Lisa-->Hey you!

same goes for DL - i actually thought there was some chemistry between them when lindsay first started, in season 2 she and danny had quite the little flirty rapport going, but for some reason it got lost, perhaps because they rushed the whole marriage/babies thing, i don't know, but it's gone away, imho. but that's not to say other people can't see something.

There is a constant reference in many posts above saying the marriage and the pregnancy were rushed. Personally i think whatever they had (if they ever had any :angel: ), dissapeared long before S5 when they finally got married. So for me the marriage was a consequence, not the trigger


Debbs

 

[Brinchen]

I fully agree with those of you who say that chemistry is subjective (and I don't know how many times I said that myself already). Because in my eyes Danny and Lindsay DO have chemistry, and always did. But like I said, that's my POV and my opinion. Just like others might not see any chemistry between them. I doubt though that the chemistry isn't existing at all because others don't see it. Otherwise I believe there wouldn't be such a big amount of ships. There are a couple of ships who have zero chemistry in my eyes, but others seem to like them. Like Maya said, some people like DL, some don't. Some people like SMacked, some don't. Etc, etc, etc. I also don't think DL makes it impossible for other ships to be on the show because it's not like they're having the most screentime in the show; Lindsay wasn't even in a couple of season 6 episodes. Personally I love to see Danny and Lindsay together, and yes, I also like things like Danny calling her 'Lindsay Messer'. I don't think it was supposed to say 'hey, dont forget, we're married', because like someone else said before, Danny called her 'Lindsay Monroe' before as well (in LRC in season 3) and I doubt that was supposed to have a deeper meaning either. Anyway I fully agree with those who want to see them have storylines/scenes individually or with other characters because I don't only like Danny and Lindsay because I ship them but because I simply love the characters.

 

[Ghawazee]

Hey Brinchen--> you should work as Ambassador

I also don't think DL makes it impossible for other ships to be on the show because it's not like they're having the most screentime in the show; Lindsay wasn't even in a couple of season 6 episodes. Personally I love to see Danny and Lindsay together, and yes, I also like things like Danny calling her 'Lindsay Messer'. I don't think it was supposed to say 'hey, dont forget, we're married', because like someone else said before, Danny called her 'Lindsay Monroe' before as well (in LRC in season 3) and I doubt that was supposed to have a deeper meaning either. Anyway I fully agree with those who want to see them have storylines/scenes individually or with other characters because I don't only like Danny and Lindsay because I ship them but because I simply love the characters.

Not a big amount of screentime THIS SEASON, but what about S2, 3 and 5?????:shifty: And when they had the chance to tone down things a little bit after the "Big Annoucement", there was an overload of scenes showing them as the "Happy Couple" which it was even worse than showing the childbirth scene. Because at least there was just ONE childbirth scene (even too much for my own dismay) but how many scenes with them instead of just focusing on them as individuals characters:shifty:

And regarding if there is a chance to have ships or not besides DL, well ask real Smackies *sigh*

 

[Top41]

Chemistry is somewhat subjective... but I don't think it's quite as subjective as some people make it out to be. Liking a couple/disliking a couple and seeing chemistry/not seeing chemistry is not necessarily the same thing. I can't stand the House/Cuddy pairing on House, but I won't deny that Hugh Laurie and Lisa Edelstein have chemistry, or that they spark together. On the other side of the coin, I love, love, love Jack Bauer and Renee Walker on 24 and really like the idea of them together, but I'm not sure they have romantic chemistry.

Much as I dislike DL as a couple, and think the pairing has pretty much torpedoed Danny as a character, I can see how people think they're cute together. The banter in season two and the joking around was cute. What I don't see is the physical/sexual chemistry--there's never been an intimacy to their physical interactions, which have been pretty few and far between. Look at Eric and Calleigh over on Miami--those two are hot when they get it on--and because of that, we've seen a lot of physical stuff between them. Grissom and Sara on CSI weren't really hot per se, but there was so much intimacy there between them when they touched or even looked at each other.

Danny and Lindsay have never really had that on any level. I don't think they ever progressed past the banter stage. We saw their one sex scene in grainy flashback and the morning after felt exactly like that--the morning after two colleagues hook up. The looks between them, the physical touching/kissing has always felt very scripted and unnatural. There's never been a moment, aside from the bantering, where they've ever felt natural and really seemed to be connecting. There's no real intimacy there, no secret language they're speaking to each other (non-verbally). When I watch them, I don't feel like I'm peeking in on a private moment.

Getting back to the subject at hand, yes, I definitely think it was a mistake for Danny and Lindsay to get married. The pairing had pretty was much played out by midway through season four, when Danny slept with someone else. There wasn't any good reason to go back, and even the writers seemed on the fence about the future of the couple... until Anna got pregnant again and it seemed easier to write in the baby than not. Real life shouldn't dictate stories, and plot certainly shouldn't drive characters. That said, it kind of created an interesting storyline for Danny--once he found out about the baby, he was so excited and desperate to keep the child in his life that he convinced himself he was ready to marry someone I'm not sure he's in love with. I don't think Danny himself is sure, either, but his insecurities kicked in, and we all know how rational Danny is when he's feeling insecure.

I think season six has absolutely proved that the marriage was a mistake--for both characters. Lindsay has gotten no development outside of it, or even inside of the marriage, really. We've barely seen any of those struggles with new parenthood we were promised, and as she pretty much always has, Lindsay seems only to exist so that Danny can crack Montana jokes that have been old for several seasons now, and to give expo-dialogue. She's played out as a character, but then she's never been a great one to begin with. She's never grown beyond the country girl cliche.

Danny, on the other hand, used to be a great character. He was such an interesting bundle of insecurities and earnest desire to do good. But this season that's all been whitewashed in an effort to make him into the perfect husband and father. And then when they decided to have him do something stupid--not report his badge missing--it was nonsensical. Say what you will about the old Danny--maybe he was willful, stubborn and difficult, but his actions made sense. I got why he went to IAB in "On the Job"--he has trust issues and needed to speak up for himself. I got why he pushed the red button in "Trapped"--because Danny is a child and of course he'd be the one to push a red button in a millionaire's bedroom (who else would push a red button at all? :lol: ). And I get why he thought sleeping with a grieving mother who made a pass at him at a low point was a good idea--he didn't think he had anything else to offer in the way of comfort. He used to be such an interesting character, and this marriage to Lindsay has wiped all of that away. So, yes, absolutely, it was a mistake.

 

[Brinchen]

Ghawazee - > I can imagine you want Mac/Stella to be canon, but I don't believe the writers didn't make them canon yet because of DL. And yes, they do get their screentime, but so do all the other characters and I also think that especially Mac and Stella not only get a lot of screentime but also a lot of storylines (the 333 caller, the Greek coin storyline, the thing with Frankie, the HIV storyline, etc). So I think it's a fair balance. But again, that's of course my opinion, I won't say it's a fact because I think even the amount of screentime seems to be subjective. Anyway, what I want to say with that - canon or not, I think shipping is very subjective and I think so is the chemistry between characters. I agree with you though- they also need screentime as individuals. I enjoy it when they interact with other characters. For example I wish we could see Stella and Lindsay interacting more.

 

[Maya316]

Hey! *Débora waves to Maya *

I should have added not only a major perception from fans but it also a general perception of chemistry working on screen.

I mean, do you remember "Speed"??? Beyond any critic, there was a major perception Sandra and Keanu had chemistry in there. Of course, maybe there were people who didn't think like that. however there was a MAJOR perception they worked nice together and producers kept that in mind so they gave them a chance to be together again in The Lake House.
(And if you ask me, they dido look wonderful there too).The same happened with Leo Di Caprio and Kate Winslet, no matter if critics liked or not their perfomances.

But when Sandra filmed "Speed 2" she didn't have the same "chemistry" or better said, the same "dynamic" if you want to use another term, with the actor who portrayed her fiancé (beyond the fact i think that sequel was horrendous:lol

Hey! (And forgot to add to my last post that I <3 that you're a fellow MoHawkes shipper :guffaw

I don't think I've ever seen Speed, so I have no idea if Sandra Bullock's and Keanu Reeves's characters ended up in a romantic relationship or not in that movie -- but I think that's important. Both Titanic and Revolutionary Road were romantic movies (essentially), so if LD/KW's romantic chemistry worked so well in the first movie, I can see why producers would've wanted it for a second one. Romantic chemistry is really different from friendship-chemistry, though, and just because an onscreen pair might have the latter, doesn't mean they'll have the former.

Great case in point -- CSI Original Flavour. I don't think I've ever met a fan of that show who didn't think Grissom and Catherine had great chemistry, as friends, if not as a ship. They were awesome, close friends in a way that rival Mac and Stella (Grissom certainly told her a lot more about himself than he ever told Sara Sidle), and the two main leads as well -- but there were a ton of people who didn't think they'd work romantically, just like there were a ton of people who DID think they would. And as much as I can't stand GSR, I think TPTB knew what they were doing when they didn't hook up Grissom/Catherine. ETA to further clarify: IMO, that's what D/L had in earlier seasons -- a fun friendship, that's all I was picking up on, anyway -- and that's what TPTB messed with when they shouldn't have. So lots of people thinking two characters work together well on screen doesn't necessarily mean they all think they'd work well romantically onscreen.

In my own experience, there's a general perception outside the fandom that DL have chemistry; that doesn't mean squat to me because I don't think so, but that's why it's all subjective.

so what do i expect as a viewer?

*Individual episode for Lindsay, not including Danny AT ALL:wtf:

*Individual stories for Danny not including Lindsay AT ALL (he has payed the conquences enough during several years:vulcan

*I suppose she is more than the "bright girl" of the lab. Make her human, with HUMAN FAILURES. So far Mac has had the soft spot on her:scream: Stella always has been the only one who treated her in the right way:wtf:

*Probably i have been the only one who enojyed Lindsay as a witness. Without being so personal, there is a material to work in there

*Please not more of DL Horror Show. I can't have my ship then why is so necessary to rescue this pair over and over again Why is so necessary to show they are a Happy Family?:wtf:

Again, agree with all this :lol::lol:

 

[talkingtocactus]

*Individual episode for Lindsay, not including Danny AT ALL:wtf:

*Individual stories for Danny not including Lindsay AT ALL (he has payed the conquences enough during several years:vulcan

i don't really agree about keanu/sandra bullock (mainly because i can't imagine keanu having chemistry with *anything*!) but i definitely agree that danny and lindsay need more "alone" screen time these days, i think that's where the problem is - they used to be quite cute together in their scenes before they were a couple (i thought), but as soon as it's shoved down our throats at every given opportunity that they're married, it starts to get really annoying and you start seeing the characters together as grating, as opposed to good characters in their own rights.

Chemistry is somewhat subjective... but I don't think it's quite as subjective as some people make it out to be. Liking a couple/disliking a couple and seeing chemistry/not seeing chemistry is not necessarily the same thing.

yeah, maybe - i think you're right to a degree, and i think it's proved in that you can sometimes see just as much chemistry between couples on screen that hate each other as those that are meant to be in relationships together. ditto pairings that are meant to be best friends. it's just a different kind of chemistry - but like you said, there's often a spark, whether it's a romantic one or not. for instance i think there's a great chemistry between flack and danny, as friends, but i doubt i'd want them to be getting together as a ship any time soon (although i know there are people that would love to see that and i think there's definitely room for more gay couples on tv). but like you said there's an intimacy of sorts there as well, flack and danny definitely have those "no words conversations" and they spark off each other very well, and it's obvious that as characters they connect in some way other than just scripted friendly lines.

Much as I dislike DL as a couple, and think the pairing has pretty much torpedoed Danny as a character, I can see how people think they're cute together. The banter in season two and the joking around was cute. What I don't see is the physical/sexual chemistry--there's never been an intimacy to their physical interactions

agreed!

Grissom and Sara on CSI weren't really hot per se, but there was so much intimacy there between them when they touched or even looked at each other.

also agreed.

Danny and Lindsay have never really had that on any level. I don't think they ever progressed past the banter stage. We saw their one sex scene in grainy flashback and the morning after felt exactly like that--the morning after two colleagues hook up. The looks between them, the physical touching/kissing has always felt very scripted and unnatural. There's never been a moment, aside from the bantering, where they've ever felt natural and really seemed to be connecting

yeah i pretty much agree with that - i did like their banter in s2 for instance and it seemed quite natural, and it could've easily gone towards a slow realisation that they liked each other more than just banter, but the way it went from friendly banter to the hook up in a really contrived way, and then it kind of went from that to married and pregnant with no sort of in between bits just didn't help at all.

Danny, on the other hand, used to be a great character. He was such an interesting bundle of insecurities and earnest desire to do good. But this season that's all been whitewashed in an effort to make him into the perfect husband and father. And then when they decided to have him do something stupid--not report his badge missing--it was nonsensical. Say what you will about the old Danny--maybe he was willful, stubborn and difficult, but his actions made sense.

definitely agree!

I can imagine you want Mac/Stella to be canon, but I don't believe the writers didn't make them canon yet because of DL. And yes, they do get their screentime, but so do all the other characters and I also think that especially Mac and Stella not only get a lot of screentime but also a lot of storylines (the 333 caller, the Greek coin storyline, the thing with Frankie, the HIV storyline, etc). So I think it's a fair balance.

definitely agree!

 

[Top41]

yeah, maybe - i think you're right to a degree, and i think it's proved in that you can sometimes see just as much chemistry between couples on screen that hate each other as those that are meant to be in relationships together. ditto pairings that are meant to be best friends. it's just a different kind of chemistry - but like you said, there's often a spark, whether it's a romantic one or not.

Oh, absolutely--romantic chemistry is different from say, friendship chemistry or even frenemy chemistry (see Sue Sylvester and Will Schuster on Glee! :lol: ). When two actors spark on screen together, I think there's a natural inclination to want to see their characters embark on a romance. Sometimes that makes sense and sometimes it doesn't.

for instance i think there's a great chemistry between flack and danny, as friends, but i doubt i'd want them to be getting together as a ship any time soon (although i know there are people that would love to see that and i think there's definitely room for more gay couples on tv). but like you said there's an intimacy of sorts there as well, flack and danny definitely have those "no words conversations" and they spark off each other very well, and it's obvious that as characters they connect in some way other than just scripted friendly lines.

There's definitely an intimacy there--something that transcends the script. How one reads into that is subjective, but the actors absolutely have chemistry.

yeah i pretty much agree with that - i did like their banter in s2 for instance and it seemed quite natural, and it could've easily gone towards a slow realisation that they liked each other more than just banter, but the way it went from friendly banter to the hook up in a really contrived way, and then it kind of went from that to married and pregnant with no sort of in between bits just didn't help at all.

I don't know if I'd ever call anything between Danny and Lindsay natural--to me, it's felt scripted from the get-go. But the banter was cute--back in the days of "Cool Hunter" and "Stuck on You," even I was kind of charmed by the idea of them. But it was all right there on the page, and the problem is that it's never transcended that. There's nothing unspoken between them. That's why these constant reminders that they're married are necessary--because otherwise, you'd never know.

 

[talkingtocactus]

Oh, absolutely--romantic chemistry is different from say, friendship chemistry or even frenemy chemistry (see Sue Sylvester and Will Schuster on Glee! :lol: ).

oh, absolutely, they play off each other fabulously well!

When two actors spark on screen together, I think there's a natural inclination to want to see their characters embark on a romance. Sometimes that makes sense and sometimes it doesn't.

hmm maybe, i dunno, i never get that really but then i'm the least romantically inclined person on the planet:lol:

There's definitely an intimacy there--something that transcends the script. How one reads into that is subjective, but the actors absolutely have chemistry.

exactly, hence i can totally understand why there are so many danny/flack ships, both about their friendship and about more than that, they do clearly have "something". so yeah, maybe my point about this being subjective wasn't so much about whether you can see a chemistry as what you read into it as a viewer.

I don't know if I'd ever call anything between Danny and Lindsay natural--to me, it's felt scripted from the get-go. But the banter was cute--back in the days of "Cool Hunter" and "Stuck on You," even I was kind of charmed by the idea of them. But it was all right there on the page, and the problem is that it's never transcended that. There's nothing unspoken between them. That's why these constant reminders that they're married are necessary--because otherwise, you'd never know.

i thought the s2 stuff was quite naturalistic, stuff like her using a slingshot and him being impressed, and him checking her head was ok after the bomb went off in charge of this post, even the silly stuff like the bug eating and so on. but for me i think the moment where it went a bit awry was when she hugged him after being a decoy in not what it looks like - it seemed incredibly scripted, i remember thinking (and i still do every time i see it!) "why's she suddenly hugging him like that?" - it seemed to come out of nowhere. the same goes, to an extent, for him being so uber-worried about her in the bit before that scene, i could understand if he was worried, they all were meant to be, but it seemed to go above that but in a really non-natural kind of way. ha, for me i guess that was the point it all started going downhill!