CSI: NY Season 6 Spoiler Discussion - Bright Lights, Big City

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Just saw the promo and I have to say, I am so totally psyched for this!

Eddie and Gary are simply a powerhouse team together when they're in intense scenes!!! Two of my fav actors going head to head....how can I not be excited!?!??!?! Not to mention two very HOT actors at that!:drool:

And just how ADORABLE Eddie looks even in scruffy mode.....oh those beautiful baby blues....awwwwwwwwwwww I just wanna pet him!!:p

I agree with the people who says that Mac is the perfect person to give Don a wake-up call. Don is the kind of person where soft talk isn't gonna work, he needs to be confronted, he needs to be shown the real damage of what he's doing, he needs to see that destruction with his own eyes before he can realize what the heck he's doing wrong. And really, Mac is the perfect one to do that, as both the boss of the crime lab and an equal to Don, he can push the buttons that no one else wants or dares to push. And personally, I think it's time for someone to pop this little bubble that Don seems to have put around himself and give him a good knocking. Sometimes, it's the only way to stop a loved one from spiraling down.

I truly hope this NY episode will live up to my expectations. So far, what I had expected of the aftermath of Danny's injuries and the shooting has been more than disappointing to me, so I really hope that the writers don't mess this up. I hope they really take the emotional punch to the gut and give us some real raw material here, let Eddie bar out his soul in the scenes! I wanna see the passion and raw character storylines that had once been the reason why I was drawn to NY more than the other CSI shows!!

I know whatever happens, Eddie will do brilliantly, so now it's time for the writers to step it up and deliver!
 
raymakay said:
Just read on another site that the name of episode 10 is now "Death House" and it airs December 2. I can't find the post now, but I think I read somewhere on this site that December 2 is the same date that Kim what's her name and the other stunt casting actors appear.
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I am really excitied to see episode 10, I am very curious as to why no spoliers have been released, i am they had spoliers come out that told us Danny was the one hurt in the cliff-hanger, spoliers came out that Angell was the one to die is season 5 finale, so I am really curious why nothing for episode 10, its not liek they have kept things a secert before so why now?? can't wait ot see what happens!!
 
Mac has no business pushing Flack against the wall. None. Zero. If you can't get through to your friend by any other means than assaulting them(and yes, it is assault, no matter how mild), then you have no business being in a position of authority. The police arrest people for shoving; why should Mac get a pass just because he's Mac?

If Mac was so concerned and angered by Flack's conduct, then he should've filed a formal complaint after Flack froze in the field. He should've contacted Flack's family or captain or both. He DOES NOT have the right to put his hands on Flack. The fact that he's Flack's superior makes it doubly egregious.

I might be more sympathetic to it if I didn't suspect that Mac does it, not out of concern for a badly-spiraling Flack, but from butthurt pique at the inconvenient interruption of his holy Compass Killer crusade. He's not concerned that Flack is self-destructing in a wash of grief and self-pity, but pissed that he doesn't have the manpower and resources that Flack offers. Once again, it'll be all about Mac and his lofty notions of duty and honor and blah, blah, blah.

The scene might play better if it had been Danny who shoved him against the wall and told him to pull his head out of his ass. Danny, too, is well-schooled in the art of grief. Louie is either dead or in a persistent vegetative state, and he struggled with the death of Reuben. He is well-qualified to remind Flack that he's not the first to suffer incalculable loss, and the dynamic wouldn't reek of a self-righteous Mac waving his mighty peen around because Flack wasn't living up to his tight-assed standards.

And no, I don't want yet another soliloquy about how Mac understands grief because he lost Claire on 9/11. It's been done to death, and I'm tired of it being trotted out to make Mac the preeminent authority on anguish. Besides, grief isn't a uniform universality. Just because Mac handled his loss by morphing into Super Extreme Badass Mac, that doesn't mean Flack will or should react the same way. Frankly, I think Flack is reeling and floundering so badly because he secretly believed that his decent life, his kindness and integrity and willingness to look out for everyone else before himself had earned him happiness with Jess, and when she was murdered, he felt betrayed by the moral rubric by which he'd functioned for so long. He's hurt and angry, and confused, and he's going to remain so until someone tries to explain how someone who did everything "right" could be so ill-used by the world.

Being told, "Everybody hurts, life isn't fair, so suck it up," isn't going to help. That Flack does need help is beyond dispute. Rather than getting his indignation boner on because Flack isn't at his beck and call, Mac should be convincing the department to force Flack into temporary counseling. But that's not as sexy as Mac pushing subordinates around in the name of the greater good, so guess which wins?

I just hope Mac doesn't push Flack publicly, because if I have to watch Mac do something patently illegal and against departmental policy and suffer no repercussions because it was a bad means to a better end, I'm going to vomit.
 
La_Guera said:
Mac has no business pushing Flack against the wall. None. Zero. If you can't get through to your friend by any other means than assaulting them(and yes, it is assault, no matter how mild), then you have no business being in a position of authority. The police arrest people for shoving; why should Mac get a pass just because he's Mac?

If Mac was so concerned and angered by Flack's conduct, then he should've filed a formal complaint after Flack froze in the field. He should've contacted Flack's family or captain or both. He DOES NOT have the right to put his hands on Flack. The fact that he's Flack's superior makes it doubly egregious.

I might be more sympathetic to it if I didn't suspect that Mac does it, not out of concern for a badly-spiraling Flack, but from butthurt pique at the inconvenient interruption of his holy Compass Killer crusade. He's not concerned that Flack is self-destructing in a wash of grief and self-pity, but pissed that he doesn't have the manpower and resources that Flack offers. Once again, it'll be all about Mac and his lofty notions of duty and honor and blah, blah, blah.
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I don't necessarily disagree, and I guess we'll see how it plays out, but I think it kind of shows how Mac doesn't quite know how to approach Flack about this. I mean, he's tried the direct route and got nothing. He's tried the ignoring and looking the other way, and that obviously isn't helping.

However, if you're right and it's that Mac is pissed off about the Compass Killer case and not that Flack's spiralling out of control, then yeah... I'm going to have a hard time sympathizing there. But that would make Mac look like such an ass if that's the case.

The scene might play better if it had been Danny who shoved him against the wall and told him to pull his head out of his ass. Danny, too, is well-schooled in the art of grief. Louie is either dead or in a persistent vegetative state, and he struggled with the death of Reuben. He is well-qualified to remind Flack that he's not the first to suffer incalculable loss, and the dynamic wouldn't reek of a self-righteous Mac waving his mighty peen around because Flack wasn't living up to his tight-assed standards.
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I agree, except that I don't really see Danny doing that. I don't think Danny really knows what to do. I saw Danny as testing those waters in "It Happened to Me" when Danny ventured, "Be careful over there." Flack's response was a kind of dismissive, "Who, me?" Of all the people in his life, Danny is the last person Flack is willingly going to show weakness in front of because in Flack's mind it seems, Flack takes care of Danny, but it doesn't go the other way. I imagine if Danny confronted Flack--and again, I don't really see him doing it physically--Flack would brush it off, gently, and assure Danny he's okay and then divert the conversation to ask how Danny's doing.

That being said, it would be nice to see Danny make the attempt, and maybe having that non-confrontational, caring attempt be what gets through to Flack. People who don't normally like to open up (Lindsay, Hawkes) tend to respond to Danny's efforts, so I think there's a chance he might have gotten through to Flack. I think that would have been amazing, so in that sense, I'm bummed that it all has to come back to Mac.

And no, I don't want yet another soliloquy about how Mac understands grief because he lost Claire on 9/11. It's been done to death, and I'm tired of it being trotted out to make Mac the preeminent authority on anguish. Besides, grief isn't a uniform universality. Just because Mac handled his loss by morphing into Super Extreme Badass Mac, that doesn't mean Flack will or should react the same way. Frankly, I think Flack is reeling and floundering so badly because he secretly believed that his decent life, his kindness and integrity and willingness to look out for everyone else before himself had earned him happiness with Jess, and when she was murdered, he felt betrayed by the moral rubric by which he'd functioned for so long. He's hurt and angry, and confused, and he's going to remain so until someone tries to explain how someone who did everything "right" could be so ill-used by the world.
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This feels so dead on. And I agree with you about Mac... just because he lost someone too doesn't necessarily mean he's the best person to reach out to Flack.

Being told, "Everybody hurts, life isn't fair, so suck it up," isn't going to help. That Flack does need help is beyond dispute. Rather than getting his indignation boner on because Flack isn't at his beck and call, Mac should be convincing the department to force Flack into temporary counseling. But that's not as sexy as Mac pushing subordinates around in the name of the greater good, so guess which wins?
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Wouldn't being forced into temporary counseling just piss Flack off more? I'm just trying to guess how Flack would react... but I don't see Flack reacting well to being "forced" into doing anything.
 
Yeah, we'll have to see how it plays out, but I doubt it's only about Mac's irritation about the loss of manpower on the Compass Killer case.

IIRC, isn't Flack supposed to have been missing for a few days and Mac ends up covering for Flack with his CO, who is fed up because Flack (supposedly) has been messing up for awhile? I'd guess Mac's worried at this point that Flack's professional as well as personal life are about to go down the drain.

I'll be interested to see if Flack finally breaks down and ends up telling Mac what happened with Simon Cade. That would present an interesting dilemma for both Mac and Flack considering what happened previously with Gavin and Truby.
 
Wouldn't being forced into temporary counseling just piss Flack off more? I'm just trying to guess how Flack would react... but I don't see Flack reacting well to being "forced" into doing anything.
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Oh, I'm sure Flack would flip his nut and bitch and whine, but he's obviously incapable or unwilling to admit he's Not Okay and might need a firm nudge that doesn't involve physical intimidation. I'd be in favor of Mac locking himself in a room with Flack and telling him that he can either get help or be reported for dereliction. The job is all Flack has right now, and I suspect the threat of losing it might wake him up.

If Mac does turn out to be pissed because Flack interrupted his Compass Killer crusade, can I mule-kick him in the groin and declare him Asshat of the Year?
 
Originally Posted by La_Guera:
Mac has no business pushing Flack against the wall. None. Zero. If you can't get through to your friend by any other means than assaulting them(and yes, it is assault, no matter how mild), then you have no business being in a position of authority. The police arrest people for shoving; why should Mac get a pass just because he's Mac?

If Mac was so concerned and angered by Flack's conduct, then he should've filed a formal complaint after Flack froze in the field. He should've contacted Flack's family or captain or both. He DOES NOT have the right to put his hands on Flack. The fact that he's Flack's superior makes it doubly egregious.
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I'd agree with this, except that Flack's done his fair share of physically shoving people around, too (not friends, but with suspects and non-main-character coworkers). Not that this makes Mac's shoving Flack any more okay, but I just don't see a big deal being made of it. In the promo, I think Flack looked far more shocked by Mac's anger with him than he was by the actual shoving. I doubt that even registered with him.

Originally Posted by Top41:
Originally Posted by La_Guera
Mac has no business pushing Flack against the wall. None. Zero. If you can't get through to your friend by any other means than assaulting them(and yes, it is assault, no matter how mild), then you have no business being in a position of authority. The police arrest people for shoving; why should Mac get a pass just because he's Mac?

If Mac was so concerned and angered by Flack's conduct, then he should've filed a formal complaint after Flack froze in the field. He should've contacted Flack's family or captain or both. He DOES NOT have the right to put his hands on Flack. The fact that he's Flack's superior makes it doubly egregious.

I might be more sympathetic to it if I didn't suspect that Mac does it, not out of concern for a badly-spiraling Flack, but from butthurt pique at the inconvenient interruption of his holy Compass Killer crusade. He's not concerned that Flack is self-destructing in a wash of grief and self-pity, but pissed that he doesn't have the manpower and resources that Flack offers. Once again, it'll be all about Mac and his lofty notions of duty and honor and blah, blah, blah.
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I don't necessarily disagree, and I guess we'll see how it plays out, but I think it kind of shows how Mac doesn't quite know how to approach Flack about this. I mean, he's tried the direct route and got nothing. He's tried the ignoring and looking the other way, and that obviously isn't helping.

However, if you're right and it's that Mac is pissed off about the Compass Killer case and not that Flack's spiralling out of control, then yeah... I'm going to have a hard time sympathizing there. But that would make Mac look like such an ass if that's the case.
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I'm definitely with the wait-and-see notion, because a lot's going to depend on how this plays out. But I'm also somewhat suspecting that Mac's anger is at least partially (even if only marginally) going to be due to the inconvenient timing of Flack's breakdown, or at least due to whatever Mac had to do to cover for him. Just because whenever we do see Mac fly off the rails to this extent, although it's often caused by long-building frustration over whatever, it's usually set off by something in the immediate, or very recent environment. Which is still understandable, IMO; it's usually that last little straw that makes people snap when they're already peeved off. It just depends on whether Mac's going to make it clear that his worry over Flack is his primary concern. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt because for the most part, he's the one whose approached Flack with his concern before this episode.

Originally Posted by La_Guera:
And no, I don't want yet another soliloquy about how Mac understands grief because he lost Claire on 9/11. It's been done to death, and I'm tired of it being trotted out to make Mac the preeminent authority on anguish. Besides, grief isn't a uniform universality. Just because Mac handled his loss by morphing into Super Extreme Badass Mac, that doesn't mean Flack will or should react the same way. Frankly, I think Flack is reeling and floundering so badly because he secretly believed that his decent life, his kindness and integrity and willingness to look out for everyone else before himself had earned him happiness with Jess, and when she was murdered, he felt betrayed by the moral rubric by which he'd functioned for so long. He's hurt and angry, and confused, and he's going to remain so until someone tries to explain how someone who did everything "right" could be so ill-used by the world.
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Very much agree with all of this, especially the part about Flack. And Mac, for that matter. Because one of the few things irking me about this storyline is that since they obviously shafted the idea of changing Flack's character to make his response to grief more like Mac's (the way he was originally just supposed to throw himself into work), they probably should've also changed Mac's role as the grief-helper in the story. It just doesn't fit the same way. Flack lives his life by his code of integrity; Mac doesn't (at least, not to the same extent). So Mac basically telling him that all his integrity doesn't mean squat in the end because bad things happen to good people all the time...I doubt that's going to help Flack. I actually think that's all he's been thinking about since Angell died, hence the OOC behaviour.

But I really think that's the only kind of advice Mac's going to be able to believably give Flack, since his grief was only about Claire's death, whereas I'm not sure it's just about Angell's death with Flack. I think a huge part of Flack's worldview must've shifted when she died, because while I'm sure he's known for a long time that bad things happen to good people, I don't think he ever expected such bad things to happen to him.
 
^I definitely agree with that... and I think it goes beyond. I don't think he thought he himself was capable of acting in a way that really crossed the lines--until he found himself face to face with Angell's killer. I think it's not just about what happened to him in terms of the loss of Jess, but also what he did as a result of it. Flack isn't just questioning the world around him--he's questioning himself, too.

Curiosity said:
IIRC, isn't Flack supposed to have been missing for a few days and Mac ends up covering for Flack with his CO, who is fed up because Flack (supposedly) has been messing up for awhile? I'd guess Mac's worried at this point that Flack's professional as well as personal life are about to go down the drain.
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I'm not sure if it's several hours or a day, but I didn't think it was as many as a few. Still, I'm sure Mac has good reason to worry about Flack's job, since a higher up in the police dept. refers to Flack as a screw up. (Unless that changes--I kind of hope it does, since we haven't seen Flack being a screw up, at least not prior to 608.)

La_Guera said:
Oh, I'm sure Flack would flip his nut and bitch and whine, but he's obviously incapable or unwilling to admit he's Not Okay and might need a firm nudge that doesn't involve physical intimidation. I'd be in favor of Mac locking himself in a room with Flack and telling him that he can either get help or be reported for dereliction. The job is all Flack has right now, and I suspect the threat of losing it might wake him up.
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Yeah, I'd prefer the confrontation to be verbal as opposed to physical, too.

If Mac does turn out to be pissed because Flack interrupted his Compass Killer crusade, can I mule-kick him in the groin and declare him Asshat of the Year?
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I'd say so!
 
Originally Posted by Top41:
I definitely agree with that... and I think it goes beyond. I don't think he thought he himself was capable of acting in a way that really crossed the lines--until he found himself face to face with Angell's killer. I think it's not just about what happened to him in terms of the loss of Jess, but also what he did as a result of it. Flack isn't just questioning the world around him--he's questioning himself, too.
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That too, definitely. I think he might be freaked out by now knowing that he can cross that line, and has probably had it on his mind for a while now that it doesn't matter whether he does or not (since bad things happen no matter how good someone is). I'm not too sure what he needs to be told right now. Aside from the obvious "you need help". But I'm fairly sure it's not something like "Angell wouldn't have wanted this for you, you need to move on", or any other generic saying ...I'm also fairly sure that's the only sort of advice I've ever heard Mac dispense when he's faced with someone else who's lost a loved one.
 
Top41 said:
I'm not sure if it's several hours or a day, but I didn't think it was as many as a few. Still, I'm sure Mac has good reason to worry about Flack's job, since a higher up in the police dept. refers to Flack as a screw up. (Unless that changes--I kind of hope it does, since we haven't seen Flack being a screw up, at least not prior to 608.)
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Yes, a few days is probably too many, but I've been assuming it's more than a few hours if Mac feels the need to cover for Flack. It will be sort of weird if the writers try to make it seem that Flack has been consistently messing up at work for some time because that's not what's been coming across onscreen in previous episodes. Seems like he's had some good days and some not so good days but nothing too extreme (unless you count the "freeze" moment, I guess).
 
Fancast got the name of the show wrong. :eek: I wonder if the ep is airing on the 2nd or the 16th now?? The 2nd makes a lot more sense, though I guess the 16th could be the first new ep before the holiday hiatus...
 
thanks for the link *lisasimpson*

Can't wait for tomorrow's eppy. It should be intense. Though makes me wonder if they will ever bring to light Flack shooting the suspect...could be a great cliff hanger, his job on the line....okay so I could have a Flack show and be completely happy!

Anyways can't wait for the eppy!
 
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