CSI: New York--'Snow Day'

[RanMa]

Own opinions and perceptions. Hear, hear!

The few recaps I've read here in full have turned me off so much (too much Lindsay-hate, too much Danny-love, etc.) I hardly read the reviews anymore but I don't begrudge others who find it "great" or "spot-on". To each her own

Ok, that was very poorly worded...

:lol:

But I do get you. And understand. And completely agree.

 

[Faylinn]

The few recaps I've read here in full have turned me off so much

Yeah, and the reviews I've read elsewhere where people were just over the moon about the D/L stuff turned me off too. But I didn't tell them not to enjoy the episode for whatever reasons they chose--it would be nice if people would afford me the same courtesy.

(And that wasn't referring to you, ranma, just to be clear. :lol

 

[Top41]

HillHarperHOT said:
Danny didn't want to go to the EMT anyway, so either she took him or he was going back to work.

I don't think Danny was going back to work. Just because he said, "I'm good" didn't mean he wasn't headed to the EMS--with his hand broken, I think it's pretty obvious he'd have to go to the hospital at the very least. I saw the "I'm good" as more of putting on a brave front than anything else. He'd be an idiot not to know he needed medical attention.

All of you review the same, so it is not just you, Top41. Whenever it comes to the episodes, Lindsay is always the worst character to you guys. I think you give Peyton to much credit because if it had been Lindsay that ran to Danny (like Danny did in NWILL when you complained) you guys would have had a huge problem with it.

Again, Lindsay running up to Danny is not what I have a problem with. It was her carrying him off when medical attention should have been brought to him (as Flack wanted to have done) and then prattling on about herself and her own guilt that I found repellant.

I think Anna is a good actress. I think this season didn't do her well, but I think it had a lot to do with her pregnancy. Once she came back from Montana, I though she got back to being the old Lindsay.

I think there were moments in season two long before Anna was pregnant that showed problems with Lindsay's character and Anna's acting.

HillHarperHOT said:
I don't take it personally because you can like who you want, and I wouldn't care. Just don' tell me why I like her. I didn't question anything that anybody said, all I did was give my reason for liking her, because you all tried to do it for me.

The comment about many fangirls liking the character because she got into Danny's pants was from what I've observed from the board--there are few posts about Lindsay herself and many, many posts about how cute Danny and Lindsay are together, how much they like each other, etc. I'm not saying that's why everyone likes Lindsay, but what I've observed on the board suggests many love the pairing of Danny and Lindsay, but don't have much to say about Lindsay independently.

I never said it affected her acting ability, I think she is a good actress. I don't like the way they played out her story line, but that is not her fault that is the writers fault.

I'd say they shoulder the blame 50-50. Another actress could have handled the crying scene in "Silent Night" or the departure scene in "The Lying Game" with much more skill and depth.

HillHarperHOT said:
No she wouldn't. Peyton was horrible in the finale and she did not criticize her like she would have done Lindsay if she had been in the same situation.

All a matter of opinion in my book.

 

[csnnyfan]

Faylinn said:
I just don't like Lindsay. Period. End of story.

I don't understand why people have to question it every time someone says that they don't like her. There is nothing that tells me that I have to like every character on the show, or every decision that the writers make. The writing and acting haven't meshed, I don't think the character comes across well, and I'm not going to sit here and make excuses for everything. Anna may have been pregnant, but a smaller amount of screentime shouldn't have had any effect on her acting ability.

Far be it for me to generalize, considering how many people come in here and generalize about people who don't like Lindsay, but it seems as though a lot of the people who like Lindsay take it very personally when another fan dislikes a fictional character on a television show.

Nobody HAS to like Lindsay, but the point is that we don't have to DISTORT what happen in an epi to argue why a character/actor is bad.
And in this review, ALL facts are interpreted badly; I repeat what I said in my post: CRITIC is not DISTORT, that's why I'm not convinced by those arguments.

And it's a shame because it's not good fot a great debate.

I personnaly am "anti-haters anybody", because we have to be objective, and see what the epi really shows.

Good week!

 

[Elsie]

And in this review, ALL facts are interpreted badly

The facts are there in the synopsis. You don't have to read the analysis if you don't want to... If I were to have written a review of this episode, apart from it not being anywhere near as useful or well written as Top's, I would have interpreted the scenes and actions in a very similar way. To be completely objective in a review would surely require a reviewer who has never seen the show before and trust me, you won't find that anywhere, especially on a CSI fan forum! Nor would anyone really want to as I'm sure it would be a dull and uninformative read. I'd much rather read something written by someone who clearly loves the show and has something interesting and insightful to add.

Nobody HAS to like Lindsay, but the point is that we don't have to DISTORT what happen in an epi to argue why a character/actor is bad

Lindsay - you either love her or hate her. I'm indifferent to her, mainly because she serves such little purpose in my opinion. I find her easy to just ignore, and would admit to literally not giving her a second thought throughout all of the episodes she was missing from this season. Distorting what happened in an episode wouldn't be beneficial to anyone, so one can assume that it is simply an opinion and not fact, I don't remember reading anywhere that an analysis should be considered fact. In this episode Lindsay's purpose was simply as a plot device, it's difficult to interpret it in any other way. She had little screentime, and little dialogue, so if I were to review her performance in this episode, well, she did was was required and nothing more.

you like it or not, DL are so in love, and if she's her girlfriend... I think she's allowed to take him and help him

I'm not getting at you csnnyfan, but it's a usual pro/anti DL point.

Distortion of a fact. Sex does not = love, nor does one date or waking up in someones apartment make you his girlfriend. These aren't facts from the show, merely an individual interpretation of events.

This episode contained so much more than D/L. It's strange how most discussions seems to end up back at them. There were great performances all round, and thrilling action throughout. What about Hawkes, out of his comfort zone and performing admirably? Or Adam, in the field and potentially scarred for life? Or Mac, who should finally be held accountable for something, like causing the death of two people by rigging a ridiculous bomb in a government building? There are many other things to discuss, so how about it?

 

[csnnyfan]

Elsie said:

And in this review, ALL facts are interpreted badly

The facts are there in the synopsis. You don't have to read the analysis if you don't want to... If I were to have written a review of this episode, apart from it not being anywhere near as useful or well written as Top's, I would have interpreted the scenes and actions in a very similar way. To be completely objective in a review would surely require a reviewer who has never seen the show before and trust me, you won't find that anywhere, especially on a CSI fan forum! Nor would anyone really want to as I'm sure it would be a dull and uninformative read. I'd much rather read something written by someone who clearly loves the show and has something interesting and insightful to add.

Nobody HAS to like Lindsay, but the point is that we don't have to DISTORT what happen in an epi to argue why a character/actor is bad

Lindsay - you either love her or hate her. I'm indifferent to her, mainly because she serves such little purpose in my opinion. I find her easy to just ignore, and would admit to literally not giving her a second thought throughout all of the episodes she was missing from this season. Distorting what happened in an episode wouldn't be beneficial to anyone, so one can assume that it is simply an opinion and not fact, I don't remember reading anywhere that an analysis should be considered fact. In this episode Lindsay's purpose was simply as a plot device, it's difficult to interpret it in any other way. She had little screentime, and little dialogue, so if I were to review her performance in this episode, well, she did was was required and nothing more.

you like it or not, DL are so in love, and if she's her girlfriend... I think she's allowed to take him and help him

I'm not getting at you csnnyfan, but it's a usual pro/anti DL point.

Distortion of a fact. Sex does not = love, nor does one date or waking up in someones apartment make you his girlfriend. These aren't facts from the show, merely an individual interpretation of events.

This episode contained so much more than D/L. It's strange how most discussions seems to end up back at them. There were great performances all round, and thrilling action throughout. What about Hawkes, out of his comfort zone and performing admirably? Or Adam, in the field and potentially scarred for life? Or Mac, who should finally be held accountable for something, like causing the death of two people by rigging a ridiculous bomb in a government building? There are many other things to discuss, so how about it?

Elsie:
I am neutral, not a shipper of any one here, but when i say "distort", it's, i.e. when the review says Flack is upset with Lindsay.

I simply don't see it!!

Every one can support/hate, I don't mind, but I expected of this review more... objectivity.
I know it's a fan thread, but it doesn't mean we have to see what's not happened in a epi... don't konw if you understand me .

 

[csnnyfan]

Elsie :
I am neutral, not a shipper of any one here, but when i say "distort", it's, i.e. when the review says Flack is upset with Lindsay. I simply don't see it!!
Every one can support/hate, I don't mind, but I expected of this review more... objectivity.

 

[Springmoon]

Wow, how shocking that yet another review has been hijacked by a silly argument. Everyone here is entitled to her opinion. There are two pieces to the review: a summary of the episode that states what happened, and the reviewer's own interpretation of the events.

I'll repeat that one: the reviewer's own interpretation of the events.

You don't have to go along with what she says, and you're perfectly welcome to post your own counterpoint to any argument that she makes. Many people have done so and it has led to a spirited discussion rather than this useless and pointless back and forth with accusations about who likes the pairing and who doesn't.

Anyway, Top, this was another well-done review. I agree that there were a couple of really minor failures of logic in the episode (Why *would* Mac, Stella, and Hawkes stay in the building?!) but they didn't detract from the episode at all. Some of my favorite action movies do have to make similar failures in logic, but it works out overall.

It was a fine showcase for all of the actors, but overall I cannot wait to see where they take everyone next season. Will Adam have some PTSD? Will Mac not like Peyton's demands for attention? Will Hawkes decide that the morgue is for him after all? Will Danny see through Lindsay's self-absorption and move on? Stay tuned!!

 

[Top41]

csnnyfan said:
Nobody HAS to like Lindsay, but the point is that we don't have to DISTORT what happen in an epi to argue why a character/actor is bad.
And in this review, ALL facts are interpreted badly; I repeat what I said in my post: CRITIC is not DISTORT, that's why I'm not convinced by those arguments.

Distorting the facts would be suggesting Lindsay is guilty of date rape for coming on to Danny when they'd been drinking or something like that. Interpreting is a different ball game. Some have interpreted Peyton buying a ticket for Mac as manipulation or the fact that Danny and Lindsay had sex and then slept on his pool table as evidence that it was probably just a one night stand--I don't see it that way in either case, but I think it's a valid interpretation.

csnnyfan said:

Elsie :
I am neutral, not a shipper of any one here, but when i say "distort", it's, i.e. when the review says Flack is upset with Lindsay. I simply don't see it!!
Every one can support/hate, I don't mind, but I expected of this review more... objectivity.

Flack's attitude towards Lindsay is up for interpretation. Some see it that he was simply engrossed in his duties; others of us look at the connection Flack has with the other characters on the show and his interactions with them and see a chilliness in the way he interacts with Lindsay versus they way he is with the others. That combined with the way Lindsay cut him off when he tried to help Danny suggests, to me at least, tension between the two characters. If I'd said, "Flack clearly wants to turn his gun on Lindsay and blow her brains out," well, that might have been a distortion.

Elsie said:
This episode contained so much more than D/L. It's strange how most discussions seems to end up back at them. There were great performances all round, and thrilling action throughout. What about Hawkes, out of his comfort zone and performing admirably? Or Adam, in the field and potentially scarred for life? Or Mac, who should finally be held accountable for something, like causing the death of two people by rigging a ridiculous bomb in a government building? There are many other things to discuss, so how about it?

Indeed! The commentary about Lindsay, Danny and Flack didn't even take up a third of the review. Moving on...do you think Mac should be held accountable for the death of the two men in the building? I saw it more as self-defense, but if Sinclair and Gerrard want to come down on Mac again, this might be the way to do it.

Springmoon said:
Anyway, Top, this was another well-done review. I agree that there were a couple of really minor failures of logic in the episode (Why *would* Mac, Stella, and Hawkes stay in the building?!) but they didn't detract from the episode at all. Some of my favorite action movies do have to make similar failures in logic, but it works out overall.

That's how I felt. I mean, if they'd just left the building, the episode would have been pretty dull, save for Danny and Adam being held hostage, and no doubt the mob's ruse would have worked, since Danny and Adam were meant to be little more than a distraction. One thing I've been wondering about--do you think the mob guy actually would have shot Danny, or do you think he was just trying to freak Flack out and get him to capitulate? Murdering a cop would pretty much automatically lead to the death penalty I'd think, but obviously these guys expected to get away.

It was a fine showcase for all of the actors, but overall I cannot wait to see where they take everyone next season. Will Adam have some PTSD? Will Mac not like Peyton's demands for attention? Will Hawkes decide that the morgue is for him after all? Will Danny see through Lindsay's self-absorption and move on? Stay tuned!!

Hawkes pondering going back to the morgue intrigues--I don't see him doing it in the end, but I'd love to see him wrestle with it! And hopefully we'll see some lingering issues for both Adam and Danny, who really did go through hell in this episode.

 

[Faylinn]

I don't like what you said, so your interpretation must be distorting what happened...

Yeah, not so much.

Top41 said:
Moving on...

Yes, let's please do. People comment that all we talk about is D/L, but when that's all they discuss...

I definitely think that there should realistically be issues for Mac with regards to what happened in the lab. He killed two men, and he rigged up a bomb that blew up machinery, evidence, and the lab itself. It makes you wonder how many criminals might get off after these events...

I'd like to see Hawkes grappling with where he belongs, but I don't think he'd decide to go back to the morgue. Honestly, I could see him wondering about himself--he could have killed that guy, and Hawkes just isn't the type to want to be in that position...

As for Danny--I'm curious about how the hostage situation is going to affect him. On the one hand, I don't think he's a stranger to getting knocked around, and even though the hostage takers were in charge, Danny never let them stay totally in control. On the other hand, though, it's not an experience that you can easily brush off, especially if the injuries cause long-lasting problems for him.

Adam has got to be affected by what happened. I'm kind of worried that they're going to do him like Greg after that explosion in the lab during whichever season of Vegas that was--after the explosion, Greg wasn't the same. And I'd hate for Adam to change drastically. I know it's pretty inevitable that something would change, but the character is just so damn lovable the way he is!

I don't see much in the way of long-term effects for Stella, Flack or Lindsay. Flack was just doing his job, and saving Danny is a periodic task for him. I'm sure that shooting that guy will affect him, but he knows that he was doing his job and it won't be as bad long-term as it might be for other characters (like Hawkes). Stella was kick-ass, that's for sure, but I don't think she went through anything that would mess her up much. Nightmares, maybe--for the whole team, in fact--but nothing more, I should think. Lindsay was barely there, so I don't know why she'd have any problems.

 

[Top41]

Faylinn said:
I definitely think that there should realistically be issues for Mac with regards to what happened in the lab. He killed two men, and he rigged up a bomb that blew up machinery, evidence, and the lab itself. It makes you wonder how many criminals might get off after these events...

I'd love to see Mac at odds with Gerrard or Sinclair over this--I imagine there's a chance that the two bureaucrats aren't going to let sleeping dogs lie, and well, Mac has given them some decent ammo to go after him with by blowing up the lab. But...I imagine the most likely outcome is that there won't be fallout from it, because like in all good action movies, the bady guys have to die and everything was wrapped up pretty neatly.

I'd like to see Hawkes grappling with where he belongs, but I don't think he'd decide to go back to the morgue. Honestly, I could see him wondering about himself--he could have killed that guy, and Hawkes just isn't the type to want to be in that position...

I don't know--I did feel like Hawkes had pretty good control in that moment, and I feel like he's fairly good at keeping control. It would be interesting to see if he is at all tempted to go back to the morgue, because it does seem like it's possible he's missing forensic pathology a bit.

As for Danny--I'm curious about how the hostage situation is going to affect him. On the one hand, I don't think he's a stranger to getting knocked around, and even though the hostage takers were in charge, Danny never let them stay totally in control. On the other hand, though, it's not an experience that you can easily brush off, especially if the injuries cause long-lasting problems for him.

Danny did fight pretty hard for control and for the most part he maintained some little bit of it throughout, except for when they made him call Flack. He looked pretty broken in that moment, though he may have been holding onto the fact that Adam got the Maquis solution. It'll be interesting to see if there's fallout, and how his hand will heal. I'm kind of hoping he's still in a cast when the season starts, but it's doubtful.

Adam has got to be affected by what happened. I'm kind of worried that they're going to do him like Greg after that explosion in the lab during whichever season of Vegas that was--after the explosion, Greg wasn't the same. And I'd hate for Adam to change drastically. I know it's pretty inevitable that something would change, but the character is just so damn lovable the way he is!

I hope not. Adam actually had a pretty decent arc in the episode itself--he went from being scared and beaten to doing two heroic things--getting the solution and saving the cops. He's got a lot to be proud of, so it could be that some part of him will be pleased with himself and hold onto that.

 

[csnnyfan]

As you said, I think it's gona happen like Flack's injury, in the begining of season 3 (and Flack was very very very bad injured....) It's like summer "cleans" all problems before the Septembre premiere ^^^.... which is not very realistic...

Have a good summer!!

 

[Top41]

It's very possible that Danny and Adam being traumatized and terrorized will never be addressed again in the show. More than likely, in fact. But I think that would be a mistake. Flack is much tougher than either Danny or Adam; while I would have liked to see some physical repercussions of his injury in the second season finale, I'm not at all surprised that he didn't fall apart emotionally in any way. That's just not Flack. But Adam was clearly angry at himself for giving away the passcodes to the lab despite the fact that he was tortured, and he might have some guilt issues next season. Danny's just an emotionally fragile character all around, and despite his bravado in the finale, I suspect being rendered helpless and being beaten would realistically take some toll on him. I guess we'll see when fourth season rolls around.

 

[csnnyfan]

yeah, I'm afraid we'll have to wait the premiere... or some spoilers this summer :devil:

 

[Top41]

I'm sure spoilers will start coming out before too long. :lol: I'm not sure how much will be followed up on this finale. For Mac and Peyton, a lot depends on whether Claire Forlani comes back next season. I hope we see some of the repercussions of what happened to Danny and Adam (most likely from Danny's perspective, since he's in the main credits), but there's no guarantee of that either. I also wonder if Flack is due for some kind of promotion after this huge drug bust! And personally, I'd love to see Hawkes wield a bone cutting saw again in some situation or another, just because seeing him pull that on the guy was pretty darn cool.