CSI: New York--'Sleight Out Of Hand'

FrellingBlonde said:
This is probably an unpopular opinion around here, but I've always been a bit of a rebel. Your hate-on for Lindsay is getting SO old. Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but come on.

Even when she wasn't on the show, you still managed to get in digs at both the character and the actress in just about every review. It's getting pretty boring, and making it difficult to read what could otherwise be interesting and insightful reviews but instead usually boil down to "Blah blah blah, Lindsay sucks, blah blah blah, something about a murder, blah blah blah, Lindsay still sucks."
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Did you miss the first half of the review? No commentary on Criss Angel's performance? What about the snarky dynamic between Flack and Hawkes? Or the missed opportunity to explore more of Stella's background? If you think the criticism of Lindsay is all the review "boils down to" perhaps it is your own thinking that is myopic, because I could have sworn I discussed the things I mentioned above, as well as the detrimental changes in Danny's character this season.

And, for the record, I'll continue to point out Lindsay and Anna's shortcomings as a character and actress respectively as long as I see them. The day she gets up to the level with the rest of the cast, I'll gladly drop it, but in all honesty, I've stopped holding my breath and hoping for that day. ;)

The comment about Anna deserving an Emmy has given me my hearty belly laugh for the day; I thank you for that. :lol:

kmfx, it's good to see you back! :D I miss Angsty Danny, too--the Danny who cared passionately about his job, who desperately tried to please Mac, who attempted to excel at his job but was often mislead by his heart and his overeargerness. That Danny was so multifaceted, so complex, so moving. I miss him too.

The irony of his "trust your instincts" statement wasn't lost on me either. Danny's instincts have always been off--oftentimes he trusts the person who turns out to be the killer (A Man a Mile, Rain, Trapped, Hung Out to Dry) and a lot of his assumptions turn out to be wrong. Danny's instincts have always been misguided, just as they are in this episode.
 
Top41 said:

The comment about Anna deserving an Emmy has given me my hearty belly laugh for the day; I thank you for that. :lol:
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I'm sorry, did I miss something? I'm pretty sure that the person who said that was stating an opinion. I'm not sure it's fair to belittle and laugh at someone for their opinion, and then expect others to be respectful of your right to express your opinion.

Clearly, though, that way of thinking is a bit too radical for this forum. My mistake.
 
FrellingBlonde said:
Top41 said:

The comment about Anna deserving an Emmy has given me my hearty belly laugh for the day; I thank you for that. :lol:
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I'm sorry, did I miss something? I'm pretty sure that the person who said that was stating an opinion. I'm not sure it's fair to belittle and laugh at someone for their opinion, and then expect others to be respectful of your right to express your opinion.

Clearly, though, that way of thinking is a bit too radical for this forum. My mistake.
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No, you're right--I shouldn't have said that and I apologize. I was laughing at the opinion and not the poster but I should have pointed out an inability to cry or emote convincingly do not an Emmy nomination make and left it at that.

I don't recall ever asking you to be "respectful" of my opinion, though I do find your assertion that all my reviews boil down to one thing rather inaccurate, but I see you felt no need to address that, so we might as well move on. My opinion is mine, yours is yours--that's what a discussion forum is for. Your disagreement wasn't with my opinion itself, but with my persistent assertion of it. For that I can offer nothing save for, I'm a reviewer, that's what I'm supposed to do--give my opinion of the episode.
 
The irony of his "trust your instincts" statement wasn't lost on me either. Danny's instincts have always been off--oftentimes he trusts the person who turns out to be the killer (A Man a Mile, Rain, Trapped, Hung Out to Dry) and a lot of his assumptions turn out to be wrong. Danny's instincts have always been misguided, just as they are in this episode.
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A very excellent point. But, then again, in those instances the science and the detective work exposed the error of the judgements he made based on instinct--this is one situation where the science isn't going to do a damn thing. The question that remains, however, is if we're suddenly meant to believe that Danny's instincts are spot-on with Lindsay--the writers have had a tendency to warp Danny to fit this relationship, at least considering the way that I see him...

As for Anna deserving an Emmy for her performance in this episode--just going with emotional scenes, I'd have to say that Melina's performance in several recent episodes was far better.
 
d2400 said:
From what I read on other sites etc., I think the consensus is pretty much the same about the dynamic of the Danny/Lindsay match. You can't fault the reviewer for giving doing what she is suppose to be doing (i.e. giving her opinion). I could be wrong but I think maybe they should step away from the romance....okay, maybe just tease us a bit with it :) and stick with the crime solving. Or maybe continue to go into other parts (just a bit) of the characters personal lives besides the romantic aspects (Stella's HIV scare, Danny and his brother etc.) But always focus on the forensics!! The show has still got the best writers on TV though!!!!
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I would disagree with that most people don't like D/L ;) It seems like most of the people who are posting their opinions about it are, but judging by the grading of the episode, which 52% gave it an 'A+', I would say that there are a lot of D/L shippers who are not bothering to write their reviews. Sometimes I am embarressed to say I like Lindsey because of the postings, I don't want people to think I am stupid.
 
xfcanadian said:
d2400 said:
From what I read on other sites etc., I think the consensus is pretty much the same about the dynamic of the Danny/Lindsay match. You can't fault the reviewer for giving doing what she is suppose to be doing (i.e. giving her opinion). I could be wrong but I think maybe they should step away from the romance....okay, maybe just tease us a bit with it :) and stick with the crime solving. Or maybe continue to go into other parts (just a bit) of the characters personal lives besides the romantic aspects (Stella's HIV scare, Danny and his brother etc.) But always focus on the forensics!! The show has still got the best writers on TV though!!!!
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I would disagree with that most people don't like D/L ;) It seems like most of the people who are posting their opinions about it are, but judging by the grading of the episode, which 52% gave it an 'A+', I would say that there are a lot of D/L shippers who are not bothering to write their reviews. Sometimes I am embarressed to say I like Lindsey because of the postings, I don't want people to think I am stupid.
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Your statement assumes that those that don't like D/L gave the episode a low grade, not at all fair and it sort of disregards all the positive comments made about the episode by those that didn't find the Danny/Lindsay scenes stupendous. I am one of those people, I thought the case was fantastic, I thought Criss Angel was amazing, I thought the Montana trial scenes interrupted the episodes flow, and that the Danny/Lindsay end scene was juvenile, but that didn't mar the other aspects of the show. I think the review was spot on in capturing my feelings on the episode, it was very good, but it could have been great.

As far as the minority/majority debate I think what can clearly be said about this forum is that the relationship between Danny/Lindsay remains divisive and really not much more can be ascertained. Again, though the high marks really don't correlate to a great love for Danny/Lindsay and I doubt the proof exists to make a definitive statement.

Finally, I would say that not all the people failing to post in the grading love the idea of Danny/Lindsay that sort of logic is simply convenient when you are a supporter.
 
I am not just going by the grades...also in the D/L shipper folder, I noticed there are a lot of posters that haven't even posted in that episode folder...so I think there are a fair amount of D/L shippers.
 
xfcanadian said:
I would disagree with that most people don't like D/L ;) It seems like most of the people who are posting their opinions about it are, but judging by the grading of the episode, which 52% gave it an 'A+', I would say that there are a lot of D/L shippers who are not bothering to write their reviews. Sometimes I am embarressed to say I like Lindsey because of the postings, I don't want people to think I am stupid.
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You shouldn't feel embarrassed to post about liking Lindsay, nor should you feel stupid for doing so at all. You have an opinion--it happens to be different from mine and some others, but that doesn't make it any less valid.

To clear something up--since it's apparently causing a bit of a stir--I am not simply trying to "bash" the character of Lindsay or Anna Belknap. I'm pointing out what I see as an honest to goodness weakness in the show, something I feel is a real detriment to the show. I have nothing against Ms. Belknap personally, but I strongly feel her acting isn't up to snuff with the rest of the actors on the show, and I feel that hurts the show as a whole. I feel the same way about the romance storyline, which could be handled much better.

I invite and encourage discussion and disagreement with my opinion. I admit, I prefer topical debate as opposed to simple complaining like FrellingBlonde offered, but I encourage you guys to speak up. By no means is mine the only opinion, and for those wondering, no, I'm not so arrogant to think the writers, the actors, CBS, etc. read my reviews and think, "Kristine doesn't like X storyline! It must be changed!" :lol: Seriously, reviews are just an opinion--often a strongly felt one--about a show. Thanks for reading and replying--it is appreciated. :)
 
xfcanadian said:
I am not just going by the grades...also in the D/L shipper folder, I noticed there are a lot of posters that haven't even posted in that episode folder...so I think there are a fair amount of D/L shippers.
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I don't think anyone has ever stated that there are few Danny/Lindsay shippers, what I said and what other have said is that the relationship is divisive and the fact that I responded to you then you responded to me and here I am responding again helps to illustrate the point, not to mention the other conversations in this thread and the grading thread.

What I said before holds true, the high marks for the episode are not so because of Danny/Lindsay shippers solely which is what your original statement seems to imply. I think we can both agree that you would be hard pressed to find a negative opinion of the episode in the Danny/Lindsay shipper thread. My point remains, there are those that actually enjoyed the episode while still not enjoying the Danny/Lindsay aspect of the show, because their enjoyment of the show is not derived solely, mostly, or even partially from the pairing, I stated that in my previous response, but I'll restate it again here.

I'll also restate I'm sure there are many people all over the NY forum that have not posted in the grading thread, but once again you seemingly imply that all those that have not posted are Danny/Lindsay shippers and I think your assumption while pleasing to those that favour the pairing may in fact lack actual merit or proof, I'm sure those that have not posted in the grading thread include those that like, dislike, or are indifferent to Danny/Lindsay, not to mention those that have not seen the episode.

I'm not going to plug unknown variables into an equation and come out with a definite conclusion.
 
I think divisive is the best way to describe the pairing in general in the fandom--most people seem to either really love it or really hate it, with a few people in the middle.

I'm curious to see where it goes, because putting them together so early on in the show's run really seems to me to be indicative of the producers writing themselves into a corner, so to speak. Where to go from here? There's no drama in a happy relationship, so I suspect either they're going to crash and burn or be on and off again for the show's duration.
 
I like DL and/or Lindsay/Anna. I also am a regular reader of Top's reviews. You can do both!!! I know Top doesn't generally care for DL or Lindsay. We disagree on this, and that's fine, because reviews are opinions, and everyone has them (my mom always said opinions were like elbows).

Why do I read her reviews? Because I generally agree with them outside of the DL/Lindsay stuff and find them insightful. I could say the same thing about other reviewers of television and movies that I read - rarely do I agree 100 percent, but they are still interesting and point out things I may have missed. There are also times I read them and think, "Yes! I saw that, too!"

One thing I will not do is get angry at her for her opinion. It's her right and duty as a reviewer to have them.
 
All I have to say is that reviews, by nature, are SUBJECTIVE. The intent and right of a reviewer is to relay his or her opinion. As readers it is our right to agree or disagree. Just because I may not agree with Top's opinions on DL and Lindsay/Anna, doesn't mean I cannot enjoy the rest of her review. Top's reviews are her personal opinions about each episode, and no one has a right to tell her what they should say.
 
I would disagree with that most people don't like D/L It seems like most of the people who are posting their opinions about it are, but judging by the grading of the episode, which 52% gave it an 'A+', I would say that there are a lot of D/L shippers who are not bothering to write their reviews. Sometimes I am embarressed to say I like Lindsey because of the postings, I don't want people to think I am stupid.
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You shouldn't feel embarrassed to post about liking Lindsay, nor should you feel stupid for doing so at all. You have an opinion--it happens to be different from mine and some others, but that doesn't make it any less valid.
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Agreed. Don't feel you can't post your opinion just because you don't want people to know. I'm a fan of Lindsay/Anna, Danny/Carmine, and the pairing. I voice my thoughts on here and I know there are members of this forum who dislike the character/actor/pairing etc. Never be afraid to say what you like or believe :D
 
Top41 said:
xfcanadian said:
I would disagree with that most people don't like D/L ;) It seems like most of the people who are posting their opinions about it are, but judging by the grading of the episode, which 52% gave it an 'A+', I would say that there are a lot of D/L shippers who are not bothering to write their reviews. Sometimes I am embarressed to say I like Lindsey because of the postings, I don't want people to think I am stupid.
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You shouldn't feel embarrassed to post about liking Lindsay, nor should you feel stupid for doing so at all. You have an opinion--it happens to be different from mine and some others, but that doesn't make it any less valid.

To clear something up--since it's apparently causing a bit of a stir--I am not simply trying to "bash" the character of Lindsay or Anna Belknap. I'm pointing out what I see as an honest to goodness weakness in the show, something I feel is a real detriment to the show. I have nothing against Ms. Belknap personally, but I strongly feel her acting isn't up to snuff with the rest of the actors on the show, and I feel that hurts the show as a whole. I feel the same way about the romance storyline, which could be handled much better.

I invite and encourage discussion and disagreement with my opinion. I admit, I prefer topical debate as opposed to simple complaining like FrellingBlonde offered, but I encourage you guys to speak up. By no means is mine the only opinion, and for those wondering, no, I'm not so arrogant to think the writers, the actors, CBS, etc. read my reviews and think, "Kristine doesn't like X storyline! It must be changed!" :lol: Seriously, reviews are just an opinion--often a strongly felt one--about a show. Thanks for reading and replying--it is appreciated. :)
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Top41 your reviews are fine ;) In fact when I watch the eppy, when there is a certain scene I always think to myself...oh I know how this review is going to go!

It's just when I read people comment on how the writers must think the fans are stupid for including the Lindsey stuff, or how its so obvious how bad her character and acting is...I just think I must be missing something because I don't see it :confused:
 
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