CSI: Crime Scene Investigation--'19 Down'

myfuturecsi and kaylyne- Thank you for your very eloquent responses. I totally agree.
m1304m- It feels like you're taking a lot of those scenes out of context. For example, Fur and Loathing was on today on Spike and I distinctly remember the comment being 'Your breadth of social experience" after Catherine discussed a dating experience that clearly related to the case. They had just found the guy in the raccoon costume, and Catherine was comparing his costume to that of a guy she used to date and who worked as a sports mascot. Grissom wasn't insulting her at all.

I really wish that, in general, people could cut Cath some slack. Her and Griss have different strengths and weaknesses, and very different styles but, at the same time, neither style is strictly right or wrong. I think the number one difference will be that paperwork will start getting done :lol:

 

Let me quote Catherine from the ending scene of Living Legend...that's life. Some people will stop watching. Somp people who stopped watching or lost interest will embrace the show again (and YOU CAN COUNT ME IN). It's only fair. *shrugs*

I don't think I need to add anything here. I couldn't have said it better than kaylyne and myfuturecsi already did. Personally, I'll be glad to see certain viewers gone with Grissom. That'll definitely be one good thing about this change.

 

Ouch,that is a bit harsh towards fans who feel that they can`t watch csi without grissom.

Anyways,I just watched this episode after caching up with the season.
I have to say that it is about time Grissom moves on and I dare to say that he should have left sooner.
I`m really intersted in how the professor will fit in with the rest of the team cause he does has an intersting appereance and not only in clothes.

I`m not the biggest Catherine and honestly I wasn`t impressed with her when she was supervisor either but she is the most logical choice and therefor should get the chance to show her skills and hopefully she grows more in her role.
That said I do wonder how she balance that with Lindsey,that would be an interesting point of view.

Great review,kristine

 

^ Woops sorry. I didn't mean to offend fans who don't think they can keep watching without Grissom. I honestly don't care why people stop watching. When I said "certain viewers", I meant those who can't move on without dooming the show and picking on, even bashing the remaining characters.

 

I didn`t feel attacked,EricaSJ but I can imagine that some people might be

I can see where you coming from though and that is true

 

I enjoyed reading your review!

That actor; who portrayed the "Dick and Jane" killer I admit did a phenomenal job..or even better than that even! I was spooked but yet I wanted to see more of that character nonetheless. I was eager in other words.

I will miss Grissom too, but I believe Catherine will live up to the challenge she's a tough cookie. =D

I enjoyed how Grissom basically acted in in his own way towards his colleagues in a situation like this.Meaning he didn't change himself because of the situation but reacted to everyone the way he would have.

I'm just a bit upset that everyone seems to be gone now. I've been recently looking at the first seasons of CSI online and on television. I've been nearly brought to tears and say to myself outloud( yep I'm one of those people who actually talks back to their television set) "Oh my God! They were like babies then! Well sorta...Lookit Warrick, and Nicky!! And Sara! She looks so cute!!"

But I'll keep watching as I usually do. I might take a break an episode or two but get back to it On Demand.

That might be because of laziness and I'm distracted by CSI NY.

I think my point is understood. xD

Anyways your reviews always seem to get me thinking about things I've missed, and that's a good thing.

 

Hi Koshi,

I'm not really surprised at all about Hodges' response. It's seemed like Grissom treated every other person in the office with respect and courtesy, but any time that Hodges tried to talk to Grissom about anything beyond the scope of an investigation, he was treated like something you scrape off your shoe, and made the butt of the joke.

Hodges may not be the easiest person to get along with, or the most socially adept, but after several years of being treated like that, I don't blame him one little bit for telling Grissom to shove it.

 

Well, sleeping with a coworker is in absolutely no way comparable to being involved with a suspect. Basically, two coworkers can sleep together ("behind eveyone's back" because it's nobody's business) everyday and work fine (like it effectively happened with Grissom and Sara). Being involved with a suspect on a case you're investigating automatically taints the investigation.

Doesn't matter how quiet Catherine's voice was, she - as the boss back then - should have taken the discussion to her office. Sara's behavior was wrong and she deserved to be suspended, but Ecklie basically wanted to fire her because she said rude stuff to him, which is again, bad and deserving of suspension, but never ever at the levels of something that deserves firing - like blowing up the lab, for example - and Catherine not only didn't try to make him realize he was overreacting, but she was also supporting Ecklie and got mad at Grissom because he prevented the firing to happen, as if he hadn't interceded for Catherine before. If there's something awful about a person, is when that person demands mercy and then denies it to others in similar circumstances. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

The problem with Sara and basically the rest of the main cast, is that she's measured with real life standards, while the others are measured with TV standards. Everybody has made mistakes (if this was the real world, none of them would have a job anymore, starting with Grissom), and she's not the exception. But Cath blew the lab, Warrick's actions allowed a CSI newbie to be killed, Nick has lost a truck full of evidence, told the details of a case changing the killers' MO (by the time of the promotion stuff - that alone justifies Sara's whining), Brass killed a fellow cop (unintentionally, but still), Grissom hid his impending deafness and has abandoned crime scenes, etc... all of that with barely any consequence. Yet Sara raises her voice and gets suspended and almost fired (by the way, she was right about the husband). If she was measured with the same standards as everyone else, she would have gotten at most a "Get away from here at the count of three, Ms. Sidle!". You can say she's a whiner, and she's spoiled, and she's annoying and rude, but being a rude whiner who's spoiled and annoying is nothing when you put it in perspective. At least she has never actually ruined an investigation or killed somebody, which here is like being a saint or something.

But I agree with Kaylyne on the rest of her post. IMHO, Grissom doesn't deserve the name of supervisor. He's maybe a leader, he's definitely a master, a teacher and an inspiration for those who are around him, but as a supervisor he's lame. While Catherine isn't nearly as inspiring as him and probably not such a leader, she's really good for the job that really needs to be done as a supervisor. If it weren't for Catherine, they would probably not even have social security or updated evaluations or raises, or they wouldn't be able to attend the seminars and stuff they need to go to. They wouldn't even have Grissom as a supervisor because he would be deaf as a post by now. In Season five she showed she wasn't ready for the position back then, but four years have passed and she has changed, without stopping to be who she is (thankfully). It wouldn't be fair for some X character to come and become supervisor when she has seniority and has proved she can do the job effectively. I think the would make a great lab director, she's good at all things administration.

Hodges - he's so underrated. Brown nose and all, he deserves a little respect. He's showed more integrity than he's credited for: when Nick joked that Sara received gifts from Grissom and they didn't, Hodges went straight to the case instead on commenting further on it. In You Kill Me, he gave Grissom assertive advice according to the little information he had, and he was the only one who talked to Grissom upfront about the subject, and gave him what he needed at the moment - some distraction. Not to mention all the main cast owe their lives to him sinc ehe was the one who found out about the bomb that was ready to explode in Grave Danger. Without him, they would have been all wiped out from this planet. He could be flaunting about it, yet he doesn't. Just for that, they should stop treating him like dirt.

 

DearAll,

Thank you for your feedback. I will let my mum know (she is the one who writes). The thing is that i am the one typing for her and i tend to type to fast therefore there will be mistakes.

My apologies.

Thank you for your opinions.

 

Regarding Sara and the promotion, Sara didn't get it because she didn't deserve it.

Nick made mistakes, but he also had a very good team spirit about him, while Sara is more like Grissom-a loner..that doesn't make for a good Key is you ask me.

Secondly, Ecklie listed Sara's faults and he was right to a T. She was insuborinate, she was rude to her co-workers (remember cough drops with Nick and how awful she treated him when he got the promotion) and she lucked her way out of a DUI! So while Eckie is not my favourite character, he was right on the money about Sara.

As I wrote before, none of the characters are perfect, but before you start to bash other characters like Catherine or Nick, remember that your characters has screwed up too.

And again, that's why the actors who play them are great-I like that they are not perfect. I like that Sara wasn't perfect because I would sit there and watch her and think, "Oh it's not just me who does that." Or even Catherine, or Nick, plenty of his dumb mistakes I'd be laughing thinking, "Yeah I been there too."

It makes characters more relatable when they screw up.

So let's not bash anyone as Hannah Montanna sang, "Nobody's perfect! I gotta work it!":guffaw:

Sorry, I got a kid.

 

Well, basically the reason why Grissom recommended Nick for the promotion is because he told him he didn't need his approval anymore, which is nice and all, but doesn't mean he's good enough for a promotion (at that point, he hadn't proved being ready to be promoted, unlike now). Sara, on the other hand, up to that point had the qualifications for that - or at least, had better qualifications than Nick. Was she ready to be promoted? IMHO no, but she was more ready than Nick at that point. You may think the alcohol thing could be a problem, but at that time Grissom didn't know that, so he didn't have it as an element of judgement.

He was right (and that's why she deserved the suspension), but he was overreacting. The reason he wanted to fire her was because she had hurt his ego and Catherine supported him because she was angry at Sara as well, which is understandable, but not fair or rational according to the standards of CSI, at least. To put an example that doesn't involve Cath or Nick, Warrick left a newbie alone in a crime scene so he could gamble to help a corrupted lawyer, allowing said newbie to be killed - and he wasn't fired (I don't remember if he was suspended). Season Nine, he was on drugs (uppers and downers) while on the clock, and he got a 2 week suspension - ah, and he was the first suspect on a murder investigation for the death of a stripper he was playing with while on the clock.

Sara, on the other hand, was caught off the clock, in her personal car probably with half a beer too much in her system (because they had just lowered the limit). They probably called Grissom as her supervisor and someone responsible who would pick her up and "know" about the situation, but it wasn't like she was tampering with evidence. She got a suspension as well, and mandatory counseling.

In that scene from Nesting Dolls what bothered me about Catherine wasn't that she wanted Sara to be fired, but that she got mad at Grissom because he defended her in the same way he's defended everybody else on his team (including Catherine herself). It's a "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" situation. It reminds me of the Parable of the Unforgiving Servant in a way (I put it just for illustration purposes, I'm not shoving religion down anyone's throats or anything).

That's precisely my point regarding Sara: it's not that she doesn't make mistakes, it's that everybody makes mistakes, but she's the one who can't get away with them. The others either don't have to pay, or have to pay a small price in comparison to the mistake that's been made. Sara has to pay all the price and get the "problem child" label (on the show and in fandom), mostly for smaller things.

 

I disagree and this is the last point I make on this matter.

Sara got away with it quite easily.

Grissom said, "I took care of it." Yes I bet he did.

I doubt Nick or Greg would have gotten away with such behaviour, but then again, both of them would never get to that point because they respect their bosses even if they disagree with them. They are not perfect either, though and have done some dumb things themselves.

The difference is it is usually Grissom that reams them out, particularly Nick who was treated like the unwanted child for a long time by Grissom. Grissom never gave Nick that attention and respect in the early seasons he did Sara, right? He made Nick feel like an idiot as did Sara on many, many occassions to the point where when Nick did get the promotion she sulked like a child.

Sara could be downright self-righteous at times and a bit of a known-it-all!

But whose the last soldier standing? Nick gets kidnapped and is back on the job, Sara gets kidnapped (in the Grave Danger remake, Dead Doll)takes off leaving her boyfriend broken-hearted.

I gues you don't like me holding Nick up as perfect while slamming Sara, that's how we feel when fans of Sara go on and on about how perfect she is and justify her bad behaviour and slam the others.

The issue here is that a previous poster held Sara up in an almost god-like fashion while slamming Catherine and that's not right.

Sara was far from perfect, but many of her fans think she is.

Nick is not a perfect character either. And the actors who play them deserve credit for making them imperfect as I've said several times already.

And that's all I'm going to say, can we just drop the character bashing please..

 

Sara has to pay for her mistakes? Uh huh. She got a DUI and she got off, she could've killed someone, but she still got off. Mandatory counseling and a suspenstion (I still don't remember her getting suspended, but my memory is not working today) is not paying for what she did. She may have had, maybe, half a beer to much and the lowered the legal drinking limit and that makes it ok to drink and drive? It doesn't matter if that happened in her personal car, it is still AGAINST the law. She still represents the LVMPD, even if she is off duty. Oh and lets not forget she could've have killed someone, but that's ok, she might have had a half a beer too much in her system and they lowered the legal limit.

Then shows up drunk, or after she was drinking at a crime scene? If the defense lawyers caught wind of that, the case would've been thrown out and the killer(s) would've gotten away with murder.

As for her suspension, she got off easy with that too, most companies would have terminated her on the spot. Insubordination can and usually means immediate termination in most, if not all, companies.

She was more qualified than Nick for the promotion? Um no, she wasn't. He proved he deserved it and proved that it didn't matter to him whether he got it or not. All Sara did was get mad at Grissom for not recommending her, which because of her feelings for Grissom she felt ENTITLED to it. Grissom has always helped Sara get away with things. Never forget that.

Now Nick made a stupid mistake and slept with a hooker, but Grissom did nothing to help him clear his name. He did everything to ALWAYS clear Sara and Warrick's name, but not Nick.

Now they are all fallible, but please don't put Sara on a pedestal, as she doesn't deserve it. Actually, no one, including fictional characters, deserves it.

But justifying someone, even if they are fictional, drinking and driving and making like she did not wrong, is wrong. I've seen way too much destruction that alcohol causes and there should be NO legal limit for driving with alcohol in your system. Sorry, it's a touchy subject with me.

 

^ yeah, i agree on the d&d part. there shouldn't be any legal limit cuz sometimes you can't control if you have .01 too much or not. but i wouldn't be that harsh on Sara. i mean, she is a character that is absolutely not perfect and that is what we all love about all of them. Jorja once said in an interview that she loves the fact that CSI characters, especially Sara and Catherine, could as well be normal people. it's how they've been created by TPTB. otherwise they would be awfully boring. *shrug*

but you know, it's so easy to critique others and be just soo strait-laced, when i bet you do stupid things sometimes too. cuz everybody does. i just don't like when people verbally stone others, especially on the internet. but you have a right to express your opinion, of course.