Big Season Finale Spoiler *MAJOR SPOILER*

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Top41, Mar 5, 2009.

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Who do you think will die in the season finale of CSI: NY?

  1. Mac Taylor

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  2. Stella Bonasera

    4 vote(s)
    1.8%
  3. Danny Messer

    12 vote(s)
    5.5%
  4. Lindsay Monroe

    80 vote(s)
    36.7%
  5. Sheldon Hawkes

    20 vote(s)
    9.2%
  6. Don Flack

    4 vote(s)
    1.8%
  7. Adam Ross

    5 vote(s)
    2.3%
  8. Sid Hammerback

    2 vote(s)
    0.9%
  9. Jessica Angell

    90 vote(s)
    41.3%
  1. melanie33

    melanie33 Hit and Run

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    IMO. To have a lesser character kidnapped and a major character killed makes no sense. That would take the focus away from the bigger character. So its possible that Angell is kidnapped and maybe a lesser character like Sinclair dies. It could be a case of wrong place wrong time if she is kidnapped. Saying that, I cant see why they would have the finale focus on a recurring character unless it was something big. And you would have to assume if her father is there, its something big.

    ETA. As much as some of you dont like Lindsay, her death affects other characters, specifically Danny who would be left with a child to raise on his own. IMO there is no way they would take the focus off that by having the episode centred around whether Angell--a secondary character-- lives or dies and having flack involved in that also, as well as tying up the flashdrive storyline .To much for one episode IMO. And I honestly dont think its a cliffhanger in the sense of the word, because this episode is supposed to tie up Craig T Nelson's arc. I think its a cliffhanger in the sense that maybe someone decides to quit or something along those lines.

    ETA 2: Angell is a castmember. She appears on a regualar basis. IMO anyone leaving, recurring or not, changes she shows lineup of characters. Because A) they need to bring in a replacement or B) they go from 2 detectives to one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2009
  2. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    Hence the "we lose a member of the family" and it will "forever change the line-up" comments from Lenkov. Lindsay's death and leaving Danny as a single father would be a great story line for Carmine and intriguing character development for Danny.

    It's not out of the realm of possibility that Angell's father appearing doesn't have anything to do with who dies. It most likely does, but it's not a done deal that Angell is the one who gets offed. Maybe it's Flack who gets killed or injured and her dad is there for support because they were involved with one another. Again, it's unlikely, but it's a possibility.

    Yes, it does change the line-up. But IMO killing off a recurring character is a lame way of "losing a member of the family" and "forever changing the line-up." It's a complete overstatement. A character who appears off and on isn't going to have a big impact on the show if they leave. But it wouldn't surprise me if they go that route because they've done the same thing on the other two CSIs. It's all about the hype and getting people to tune in.
     
  3. miss_blue

    miss_blue Lab Technician

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    As I said in the Spoiler thread (I get a bit confused sometimes between the two, because there is discussion going on in both) when I read "line-up" I'm thinking about the characters that appear in the opening credits. I agree with Poppet and PA up there that they might have Angell kidnapped and another character killed. I don't believe that having two major people in a dangerous situation shifts focus to the one that is in a greater danger. Money is still on Danny being in the middle of this unpleasant situation.

    And regarding Lindsay and how she can't bite the dust because she had the baby. Well, her dying and leaving Danny alone with the child can make good quality and quantity Danny drama for the rest of the 6th season. the fact that she will have the baby is not a reason to think she might be the one to go. People are open to dying in any given situation, regardless of whether they are parents or not.
     
  4. ~Sarah~

    ~Sarah~ Lab Technician

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    I don't see Lindsay going unless Anna wants off the show.
     
  5. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    I don't really see anyone going unless it's because the actor wanted off the show.
     
  6. Faylinn

    Faylinn Adam Fangirl Super Moderator

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    As much as I've been saying that I would prefer to lose Angell to Hawkes/Danny/etc, now that the evidence is pointing in her direction, I feel sad. I don't want her to die. I could get over it, but I think it's a shame.

    I can't feel too disappointed that it's not Lindsay because I never really let myself believe we'd be lucky enough to get rid of her once and for all - so yeah, not too much of a letdown here.

    However - ugh, more DL+1 crap next season. Oh joy. And they're presumably killing off half of the couple that works. Typical, right?

    Exactly. She's not in the main credits, but she's still one of the most major characters that has been on the show. No other secondary detective has appeared in 20+ episodes. No other secondary detective has appeared over the course of 3 seasons either. In terms of NY characters, she's minor compared to the CSIs, Flack, Adam and Sid - but in terms of TV at large, she's a pretty major character. NY just doesn't have a lot of recurring characters that stick around for more than three episodes.

    Besides, we know the writers talked about making her a series reg and whatnot - that speaks to her being considered a pretty big character to them, even if the fanbase doesn't agree.

    I wonder if this was a case of them having to decide whether to take on another reg or let her go? I know Robert Joy said he had to ask TPTB to either give him a contract or let him go because he was turning down other roles in favor of NY. It's possible that Emmanuelle had to make the same choice, and TPTB couldn't take on another reg (either because it wouldn't work, as Top said, with two detectives, or maybe due to budgetary concerns). So, if that's the case, they might have decided to get one last hurrah out of her leaving.

    Or they might have just decided to kill her off because they want to and because she doesn't have a contract, so they can do it.

    All that being said, even though it doesn't look good for Angell right now, I'm not going to assume anything for sure at this point - and I'm not going to assume that seeing Angell's father means the others are safe. *clings to Hawkes* I won't relax on that front until I see spoilers that confirm her as the one that dies, or until the episode airs - likely the latter since I'll probably consider the spoilers big fat lying liars that lie.

    And there's alway the possibility that they're using our spoiler-searching to trick us by labeling another character's father as Angell's father so we'll be shocked when the episode airs and it's not Angell that dies. :shifty:

    Trust - I do not have it.
     
  7. eyewitness

    eyewitness Rookie

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    Darn.
    What reason other than her funeral would they have to call in Angell's father. :( I'm afraid this confirms my suspicion. Goodbye Angell.
     
  8. Ghawazee

    Ghawazee CSI Level Three

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    i still don't believe Angell is who is going to dissapear. Actually, re-reading the spoilers i can pressume who is going to kick the bucket

    Debbs ;)
     
  9. Elwood21

    Elwood21 Pathologist

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    dang, late to the discussion, as always :lol:

    ...intriguing, Keptain... :vulcan: :p

    And to further my hamster-wheel pleasure... a recap. :p What we've been given so far from Peter Lenkov himself as sanctioned tidbits: We have a 'member of the team' targeted, this 'forever changes' the show, we'll 'lose a member of the family,' the crime(s) of kidnappers turned copkillers will 'forever change the CSI:NY line-up,' and the 'cast will shrink by one' this May.

    The casting news, even in combination with the PL spoilers, is not enough for me to do more than go, huh, well, that's curious. ;)

    -

    Emmanuelle Vaugier is a Guest Star reprising a recurring character. Robert Joy's Sid and AJ Buckley's Adam both started out that way as well. Carmen Argenziano's Insp. Stanton Gerrard, Mykelti Williamson's Brigham Sinclair, Julia Ormond's Deputy Inspector Gillian Whitford all fall into this category, as do all the show's guest performers, stunt casting or otherwise. Nelly, Robert Gant, Ashlee Simpson Whassername, etc., all get the same listing. Just something to consider here.

    The impact Angell has on the show has far more to do with what Vaugier's made of the role than her billing. The fact that the producers have returned to her over several seasons and that the writers have kept providing Angell material instead of other detectives (Kaile Maka, Charlie Thacker, etc.) speaks more to a happy and workable discovery that has evolved a character who contributes more to the show than a 'secondary' detective was probably expected to. As far as how many detectives are too many, Vegas has someone supplementing Brass quite regularly. I even think Sofia Curtis got a decent bit of development and backstory while she was on. I honestly don't think NY would suffer for two.

    Sure, a possible issue here could be whether TPTB want to offer Vaugier a contract in order to guarantee her availability, as they did with Robert Joy and AJ Buckley, versus perhaps hoping to continue on with the current arrangement where their obligations are lesser and what they gain is presumably in their favour. I suppose it would be entirely dependent of the offers of work Vaugier may or may not actually be getting, from NY or from anyone else. We do know TPTB are certainly accomodating to the cast they do have on contract in terms of outside appearances, projects, and work, and were also willing to bring on both Robert and AJ when they were approached with the possibility.

    Characters like Sid and Adam may now be contracted, but the terms are unknown. It is likely they're specified appearances in fewer episodes than the core group. Regardless of how many or how few episodes, a contract in theory makes it easier for both the cast and the show to manage obligations and opportunities. I suspect it wouldn't take much of a nudge to move Vaugier in the same category if the studio wanted it, even if on a season by season renegotiation instead of some multi-year deal. If they felt the guaranteed appearance of the character would serve to promote the show with the audience it courts (hello, Adam), they would do it. Unless of course they think there's a bigger return in making her, over and above absolutely any of the the others, the one to be killed in the finale. It's always about the bottom line, viewers and $$, no matter how much dramatic or artistic integrity is being battled for, or over, behind the scenes.

    For me, factors in all this roundabout speculation are how literally to take Lankov's spoilers, how much/little to read into casting news, contractual semantics, how I feel about the roster of characters, and how much I suspect TPTB are playing upon all of that to twist everyone in knots in order to both guarantee and groom an audience as the season winds itself out, let alone as the planning and writing of the next one begins.

    I see Angell as having a substantial impact on the show, but she's not a member of the 'line up,' not in the same sense I look at the main roster of characters. Angell may be a member of the extended family within the show, but I'm simply not convinced that writing out a recurring character and losing a guest star equates to 'the cast will shrink by one' in a way that will 'forever change the line up and forever change the show.'

    It would be a supremely cheap and literal way to build and then gut the hype if that's really the way it's gonna go down. As little credit as I'm willing to give TPTB, I really hope for better than that from them. I'm not even excited about a cliff hanger. I'd rather they did a decent finale like Snow Day than turn out another like last year's Hostage (even if Koteas was good).

    -

    People are obviously looking at the casting call and trying to glean as much as they can as far what it might mean. Might help a little to look at what the terms are before really trying to infer too much. Someone asked, here or in the other spoiler thread, what scale means. Here's what I gather as far as casting relates to a) 'scale' and b) to 'major' roles. I went poking around the SAG site to see what I could find there that might relate or be useful here. Found this:

    • "Scale is the minimum payment or payments set forth in the collective bargaining agreement between SAG and the producer. Scale is not just the session fee. Scale, in fact, covers all the negotiated fees that are part of the contract, including residuals, wardrobe allowances, per diem, mileage, transportation and travel time—to name a few. Scale is the upgrade you get when, as a background performer, you are thrown a line, and the liquidated damages that are added when your check is late. And don’t forget pension and health. Can a non-union producer provide the benefit package that is the equivalent of what professional performers make when they work under contract? I don’t think so. All of these payments are scale because they are negotiated as the minimum payments that come due when the particular circumstance calls for it. For scale to be paid on a non-union job, the equivalent of all these payments would have to be assured, and they are not.

    And as for what a Major Role is, on a freelance contract (as opposed to negotiated series regular, for example):

    • "...A 'Major Role' performer is one who, as part of his or her contractual arrangement for that employment, negotiates credit at the front of the show or negotiates credit on a separate card, or is equivalent in a crawl, at the back of the show or who negotiates credit in any of the following forms: " guest star," special guest star," "starring," or "special appearance by."
    Hope that helps a little.

    -

    I dunno what the appearance of Angell's father means for an ep. It could mean greater development for her character and a way up the ladder as much as it could mean her demise. What. C'mon. Work with me :lol: :p Flack has had Sam appear, Mac's had Reed, Danny's had Louie, Stella's had a long lost friend from foster care, so having family appear isn't unheard of. It might be unusual simply because it's for a recurring character, and that's the only reason it does give me pause. Still, who's to really say what's to be inferred. I mean, I'm frankly more surprised that we actually found out that Hawkes wasn't beamed down from a mothership and that he does indeed have parents. :p I'm thinking at this point I'd love to see Flack and Angell's dads get together and go bowling sometime. :lol: And in an ep where we've been informed there are cop-killers and that someone's gonna die, the casting of an ER doc is not a huge surprise.

    I'm gonna resist putting the whole picture together with only a handful of pieces. Call it denial if ya will. ;)

    I'd rather see Angell bumped up in the roster than removed from it, because I think S6 would suffer for her lack of presence after what they've managed to build with her character. She along with Adam have been the more refreshing contributors to breathing a little new life into things this season. A season six without Angell, and with a married DLFamily is absolutely almost too much to bear contemplating.

    :brickwall::censored::brickwall::censored: *ngah* ...must...resist... :lol:

    Mebbe Angell gets shot but doesn't die and we meet her father while visiting at the hospital. Mebbe Flack meets him. Mebbe that's a way into finding out more about Flack's father next season. Finally. Who knows. I still hope Lindsay. I still muse Sinclair. I still worry Hawkes. I still wonder Danny. I still wonder in general. I still absolutely suspect TPTB of silly buggers. I guess I'm just full of salt here. I'm not sold on anyone. :p

    And to close out, here's a fun grain in the form of a CSIFIles snippet from Charge of This Post: "In a race against the clock, the team works with local agencies and government authorities to locate the bomber and narrow down the next trigger among the city's six million cell phones before he strikes again. Meanwhile, as Mac investigates a routine crime scene, he stumbles upon a bag containing C-4 explosives and is unable to evacuate the building quickly enough to get his team out of harms' way. While a CSI is rushed to surgery, Mac struggles with the memories of the last person he was unable to save, a fellow Marine killed during the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing."

    (...um, mebbe that's why the 5.15 writer got mixed up in thinking Messer came from a long line of cops...? :p)


    Spoilers. Gotta love 'em. Take all these snippets as you will. ;)
     
  10. GregNickRyanFan

    GregNickRyanFan Holographic Moderator Moderator

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    Oh fudgesticks! Now I'm starting to worry about Flack. :lol: I guess it is possible he's the one to die and Angell's dad is there because either she gets hurt too or just to comfort her over the loss of Flack. It's anyone's guess.
     
  11. addictedtoSpeed

    addictedtoSpeed Judge

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    Well, I don't usually go this route but if it is Flack I'd stop watching. I like NY but if there's no Flack, who makes the show IMO, then I'm probably gone. I need my hot comic relief!! :lol:
     
  12. Ticamo77

    Ticamo77 Hit and Run

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    If they bump Lindsay for Angell, thus ridding us of one romance to put another relationship at the forefront, I’m all for it. :thumbsup: Yes, I dislike her and like Angell better... Sue me. :rolleyes:

    Let Angell get kidnapped and Flack runs to the rescue. Maybe the casting of her father means that he’s concerned for her and is there to pressure and/or support Flack with her recovery. He could also interfere with negotiations. She is his ‘little girl’ after all. I sure he doted over her despite the treatment her brothers gave her. I’m not ready to say she’s the one to go yet.

    Lindsay could still be the one to leave and the change of the line-up could be her departure with the addition of Det. Angell. This will allow us to get back to the two crimes per episode format. Hawkes will get more screen time, hopefully. After Danny has mourned Lindsay and finds joy and routine with the baby, he can go back to partnering with Hawkes. It’ll be just like a few episodes in Season Two. Those guys work well together and it should go back to how it should have been.
     
  13. EngleBarn

    EngleBarn Rookie

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    I've been avvay from the site for avvhile, and haven't been able to keep track of this discussion, but I agree that it points tovvards Angell.

    Though since AJ. Buckley said that none of them knevv vvho it vvas, it vvould be too easy to guess if it her dads appearance meant her death. I think for once they vvant to make it more mysterious and unknovvn, that's vvhy not even the cast knovvs..
    (I'm joining all of you Angell fans in the denial department. IT'S NOT ANGELL! Aargh, you cruel vvorld listen to me, it's NOT!) I think I might be having a nervous breakdovvn..

    excuse my v's but i broke my double v button.... Oops.
     
  14. Andromeda

    Andromeda Police Officer

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    Hiya, I´m new in this forum, too, and I love to join the speculations :).

    Well, first of all, I don´t think it will be Angell who´s gonna die. Dropping the name of her Dad in the cast is probably just another trick of the producers to lead us astray. Yes, Daddy Angell could be involved in this case and maybe Jessica is to discover a dark secret of him, and maybe he will die, too, together with the main cast member, but it won´t be Jessica. Rather contrary I think she will be in the main cast from s6 on and replace the person who is leaving. That makes more sense to me as it was mentioned that the producers were thinking of adding her to the main cast anyway.
    So who´s gonna die? Well, my guess is as good as yours, but I´ve tried to analyze Lenkov´s words before he came with the shocking revelation that someone´s going to die. He said that "the last four episodes will be very heavy on the leads", saying that Mac will find out something about his Dad and Stella´s Greek storyline will be wrapped up. OK, we know, all this will happen in the eps. 22-24. But Lenkov said "last four episodes", so the season´s finale will be heavy on the leads, too. But in what way? Will they witness the killing with their own eyes and then go on a personal vengeance trip? Or will it be even one of the two who´ll be killed :eek:? But "heavy on the leads" could in this case simply mean that as the two bosses of the team it will hit them hardest when they lose a member of their team. But Lenkov delivered the bad news with the words "we´ll lose a member of our family" which really suggests that it´s a big name leaving. And the big names are Mac, Stella and Danny, then Lindsay and Hawkes. Flack is a cop, not a CSI, so he seems safe and AJ and Robert seem to have safe five-years-contracts.
    So back to the big names: Gary as co-producer definitely neither has any intention to leave nor can they just drop him. And unless Carmine wants to leave, I don´t think it´s him either. And I don´t think TPTB would do this to us and give us such a melodramatic, even pathetic finale with the young family getting split brutally, just right after Danny and Lindsay got married and shortly after the birth of the baby. Now, come on, that would be soap opera level :rolleyes:. For the same reasons I don´t think it´s Lindsay, either, though I voted for her (hope is the word :p). But I can´t see her returning to a dangerous crime scene just so shortly after she has given birth to her toddler. Surely she will rather stay in the safe lab or will not even appear in this episode. So how is she supposed to get killed then?
    That leaves Stella, sigh, for a long time I denied that it could be ever her to be the one, but I can´t count her out, I´m afraid. Of course, I have no idea about her contract, but if she signed in 2004, it might run out now and she might not sign a new one for whatever reason. I don´t think she would quit a safe and well-paid job for just one movie role offer and I agree that she will stuff the shootings for this film inbetween CSI-breaks. But who knows, meanwhile more good offers might fill her mail box, and that would leave her no other choice than to leave CSI, and though I would miss Stella terribly, Melina would be a fool not to grab the opportunity.
    AJ´s words suggest that none of the actors is prepared to leave, which was my impression after re-reading recent interviews, but that it is TPTB´s idea to kick one out. But still it´s possible that this is not true, that someone changed their minds and wants to leave. But if it was the producer´s idea, by now the person in question must know it and got the strict orders, not to tell anyone, not even their colleagues. So AJ is not lying if he says, none of them knows who´s the unlucky one, officially that is right. I don´t believe his words, though, that they just will find out when handed over the script. I mean, this is not a game like letting all draw a match and the one who draws the shortest is out of the show. It´s a matter of being employed or unemployed, so the bosses must inform the person right in time.

    OK, that was it, end of my waffling:lol:, I hope this all makes a bit sense to you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2009
  15. Ceindreadh

    Ceindreadh Pathologist

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    All through watching Communication Breakdown with Danny thinking up names, I was convinced that they'd end up going with naming the kid after their fallen comrade - whoever it would be. I'm still leaning towards that theory, which means that baby Monroe/Messer will probably be called Stella or Jessica. (or maybe they'd go with Sheldon for a girl ;-)
     

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