Why Lindsay Must Go, Part 4

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Top41, Mar 22, 2009.

  1. Maya316

    Maya316 Lab Technician

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    0
    They didn't change Lindsay's opening credits to include Danny until S5. Which makes me think it was a quick, easy way to remind non-usual viewers who she was having a baby with (especially since there were whole episodes when they never really specified that). D/L has been going for four seasons, but Lindsay's credits have never included Danny until now.
     
  2. JellyBelly

    JellyBelly Lab Technician

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    0
    Personally, I took the change to the credits as being because it was a nice clip with Lindsay smiling. I haven't really seen it as having anything much to do with Danny, particularly as that scene is an edited (or even 'off camera') clip. The credits were changed at the beginning of s5 way before there was even a hint of a reconcilliation so I don't really see any depth or hidden message to the decision.
     
  3. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Messages:
    15,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    ^Nah, maybe not, but I do think it highlights how Lindsay really has always been just Danny's love interest on the show. It's a marketing thing--because the D/L romance has a following, they kind of pander to it with stuff like that. With him, there's a lot more to his character, but her storylines are all about her relationship with Danny.
     
  4. Maya316

    Maya316 Lab Technician

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    0
    ^ I'd have to say that ever since Lindsay came into the picture, all of Danny's storylines have had just as much tendency to devolve into D/L as any of Lindsay's storylines. Even the Ruben one. Perhaps the one exception being the Tanglewood one, back in S2.
     
  5. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Messages:
    15,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    ^Somewhat, but he's still a fully formed character in his own right, with storylines that are at least mostly independent from her. It felt like the only reason Lindsay was inserted into the Ruben arc was to give her something to do that season--she felt very much like a background character until she reacted to Danny's plight. So I think she's only incorporated into his stories to give her something to do, whereas his stories are distinct and organic to his character and she kind of comes in later. Even with the baby story, she was incidental while the writers focused on his reactions, his excitement, his worries. She was barely in it at all--even before Anna went on maternity leave.
     
  6. Maya316

    Maya316 Lab Technician

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    0
    ^ She didn't need to be inserted into the Ruben arc to have something to do in S4. She was already standing on her own without it. If Danny's storylines later devolve into D/L, it's not just to give Lindsay something to do. Hawkes, Flack, Adam, and Sid have never really had storylines before Season 5, and like Lindsay, they are still fully-formed, independent characters without them. Additionally, up until Season 5 (and even that's debatable), it is actually rather hard to tell that Lindsay is supposed to be Danny's love interest unless you've watched every episode of the show in order.
     
  7. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Messages:
    15,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    But she didn't have any storylines in season four up until she reacted to Danny's, and unlike characters like Hawkes, Flack, Adam and Sid, she doesn't really have a lot of little character moments that make her stand out. She felt like wallpaper to me in season four--especially with that terrible haircut that aged her ten years and took away any cuteness the character might have had. I feel like she fades into the background every time they unglue her from Danny's side, which is I guess why they keep coming back to him to prop her up.
     
  8. Maya316

    Maya316 Lab Technician

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    0
    In season 4 alone, I can reel off several little character moments - the random demonstrations, the Batmobile-vs-Mach 5 and Laughing Larry moments (both with Flack and the one in the morgue with Sid), the slingshot moment, the "I rock" moment, the teasing-Stella-about-her boyfriend --> which later shifted into a tiny moment in "Thing about Heroes" where she was about to leave the lab, but stayed behind to help Stella because Stella was frustrated with the puzzle. These were all making her stand out, I thought, until her character got sucked into the black hole of D/L once the Ruben arc got started. Prior to Season 4, she had other character moments and mini-arcs...even separate from the S3 one. Like the way she put her life on the line going undercover (badly) in "Not What it Looks Like", or the mini-story she had going in "Stealing Home" and "All Access".

    I thought she was more of a presence in S4 than in S3, to be honest - and I'm probably in the minority with this, but I actually thought the haircut made her look kind of cute. Not when it got super-super short, but it was really nice in the first few episodes of S4. Better than the curls she had at the end of S3, anyway - I thought those just really accentuated her weight-gain from her pregnancy.
     
  9. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Messages:
    15,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    Fair enough, though the demonstrations have gotten kind of old and the Batmobile vs. Mach 5 seemed like it was dialogue that should have been given to Adam rather than her. And the puzzle thing--I remember she couldn't be bothered to work on the puzzle until it was clear that Mac was involved. She's such a brown-noser a lot of the time.

    I don't feel like they stood out very much, though, or said much about who she is as a character, other than perhaps to underscore the cliche that she's supposed to be a tomboy from Montana. Whereas Sid's moments highlight his quirkiness or sometimes weird perspective :lol: and Adam's his nervousness and troubled past (with the abusive father).

    She hasn't had a single storyline since the dark secret one that hasn't revolved around Danny and D/L. I personally think Belknap bungled the dark secret so badly that they didn't want to hand her anything else, but that's all supposition. Well, supposition based on the absence of storylines for her, which I think is pretty telling, but still supposition.

    I don't know whether you're in the minority--I think some like the short, straight haircut. I just think it aged her--she looked older than Danny that season. The curls accentuated the roundness of her face but at least they were flattering, whereas the blunt haircut didn't flatter her features at all IMO.
     
  10. Maya316

    Maya316 Lab Technician

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know, Lindsay has struck me as nerd-ish enough plenty of times for me to believe she'd know all that stuff about the Mach 5. And the puzzle was specifically given to Adam to solve by Stella, not Lindsay. Lindsay's job was to follow Stella, Adam's was to do the puzzle - although yeah, you have a point - I noticed a brief scene where she was helping Adam with the puzzle at the end of that "Wedding and Funeral" episode, but that was after Mac had said the puzzle was about his life.

    I thought they made a point of making the brief Stella-Lindsay moment stand out - because Stella seemed to realize what a big deal it was that Lindsay was putting herself out there for someone else, even just that little, work-related bit (yet another baby-step). I don't know if the other moments so much highlighted that she was a tomboy from Montana, as a geek from Montana :p (less of a cliche, sort of).

    I would think it would be even harder to play romantic storylines than tiny character arcs, personally...there's no one else on the show playing romantic storylines, other than Danny and (now) Flack. If she bungled the dark-secret storyline, she did fine with the ones in All Access and Stealing Home.
     
  11. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Messages:
    15,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    I feel like they all have nerdy lines, though, without really being nerds (save for Adam and maybe Hawkes). I mean, Flack had a line about Dr. Who, and I'd be shocked if he'd actually watched the show. :lol:

    Yeah, she only got interested in it once the boss was involved.

    But they never went anywhere with it, which makes me question its significance. It was more to further the plot than to further Lindsay and Stella's relationship.

    I think she'd be more interesting if she really was a geek, but it doesn't come up often enough for me to really classify her as that.

    I don't think Danny and Flack or even Adam have tiny character arcs, and the romantic stuff seems easier to me. It lacks the subtlety and depth of some of the other storylines on the show (like the Ruben arc, or Flack's contentious relationship with his sister).

    She was okay in Stealing Home, but she was positively wretched in All Access. That was the first time I really put my finger on why I really disliked Lindsay and totally picked up on what a poor actress Anna Belknap is. I remember how scripted her actions were, from the way she put her hand on Danny's arm to the outburst with the suspect. It was when I first realized that what bothered me so much was how unnatural Anna's acting was, how much I realized she was reading from a script and not inhabiting her character. Often I think I might like Lindsay a little better, might sympathize with her a little more, were she played by an actress with a better range than Anna Belknap's clearly very, very limited one.
     
  12. meggzie

    meggzie Police Officer

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2009
    Messages:
    417
    Likes Received:
    0
    she had some little character moments but not any storylines apart from the 'big secret' in season 3 and the pregnancy which we didnt see much of her view anyway she has never had a big storyline like the other characters and that is understandable in a charcter like sid or adam they are relitively new but lindsay has been there 4 seasons and she is a main character

    And i liked her curls in s3 her really short haircut was quite bad though:lol:
     
  13. Maya316

    Maya316 Lab Technician

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
    741
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hawkes has been there five seasons, he's a main character, and has yet to have a big storyline. Flack has been there five seasons, and I think he's had two big storylines - and I'm being generous, including the Season 3 torment over turning in a dirty cop, as a big storyline. Lindsay (despite the fact that Belknap is, imo, a far less famous actress) has had two. Three, if we absolutely must include her part in the Season 4 fiasco.

    I liked her curls in S2 :lol:, because they seemed more genuinely frizzy - whereas the ones in S3, especially at the end, were so obviously just styled (rather than looking natural), and made her look fat. I'm sorry, I know it was because of her pregnancy that she looked overweight, but there it is. The haircut in S4 brought her back to natural-ish bouncy-cute, at least until she cut it super short again in mid-season 4.

    I don't know, I've gotten the feeling that all the CSIs on all the shows (well, maybe not Miami) are supposed to have a little nerd in them - though Lindsay especially so, because she often comes across as that know-it-all nerd who was into all this paranormal/cartoony stuff and did the unnecessary extra-credit homework in school.

    When was Flack's Dr. Who line?? :lol: (I so have to find it) I remember him being kind of a nerd in DOA for a Day, when he reminded Danny that the cosplay club looked like a Star Wars cantina :p

    They never went anywhere with it because, like I said, black hole of D/L; Danny's not the only victim of it. It's one of the most frustrating things I find in the show - Lindsay doesn't seem to have any connection with anyone other than Danny, but there're always, always so many moments where it seems like the writers could (or even were planning) to take it in that direction with other characters - Mac, Stella, Hawkes - before D/L stole the show again.

    Stella's interest in fashion and clothes and Tiffany's doesn't always come up, either, but I'm fairly sure we're still supposed to kind of see her as a glam-girl. But anyway, I just meant that Lindsay's definitely supposed to be a stereotype, but she doesn't strike me as a stereotypical tomboy - that was what Angell was supposed to be, if you ask me.

    In character arcs, the acting is singular - you just have to respond to situations on your own. In romantic arcs, you have that, plus you have to convincingly portray that you have romantic feelings for someone you (usually) don't. I think that's harder. I don't think it's a coincidence that CSI for the most part is a show that has stayed fairly romance-free, whereas there are entire shows specifically oriented toward romance - I think there might actually be a different kind of skill-set required to play romantic arcs. They seem hard to do.

    Flack has had nothing but tiny character arcs until Season 5 - the one in Season 1 with his old supervisor, the one with Officer Truby in Season 3, and then a brief one where he had a girlfriend in Season 4. Adam...well, he had the little "almost getting fired" one in Season 5, plus had little moments that give depth to his character (like in "My Name is Mac Taylor, when he was looking up all the different Adam Rosses in New York). Danny hasn't had tiny character arcs because with the exception of Stella and Mac, he's the one who gets the most storylines on the show.

    Her outburst in All Access seemed natural to me (I don't remember the hand on Danny's arm, though) - I thought she was very clearly on edge that whole episode, and if the problem was with Lindsay's outburst being too abrasive...I really think it was meant to be.
     
  14. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2003
    Messages:
    15,237
    Likes Received:
    0
    Aside from the dark secret, what was the other one? The romance? I almost don't count that, because it seems like a way to give her some purpose on the show, to mask her overall inadequacies as a character/actress.

    I don't know if I'd call it a storyline, but Flack's devotion to Danny has definitely been a bit part of his character, and their friendship is a big element in the show.

    Hawkes has smaller stuff, but he has the newbie CSI stuff (sadly overshadowed by Lindsay), the former ME/doctor beats and even some friction with Mac over the case where he knew the victim.

    She's the Little Miss Perfect in school who everyone hated because she spent her time kissing the teacher's ass. :lol:

    The Dr. Who thing was in "Time's Up." And he kind of gets dorky around Danny--the two just play off each other in a really cute way. :lol:

    Yeah, but where Danny gets moments with all of the other characters despite D/L, Lindsay doesn't get that much at all. Even though the romance looms large, Danny still has a connection with every other character on the show, whereas Lindsay just doesn't. I think that's in large part due to her falling flat as a character much of the time. Even the stuff she has--the demonstrations, conflict with Danny, etc.-- is all repetitive. There's never anything new with her, and as an actress, Belknap doesn't stretch at all.

    Really? I always saw Stella as having a certain sophistication, but not quite being a glam girl. I think she spends time on her appearance but doesn't obsess over it. She's kind of in the same category as Calleigh and Catherine.

    The buck knife, the rope braiding, the slingshot... all of that says tomboy to me. Angell held her own with the guys, so I can sort of see the tomboy side of her, too, though I think a lot of that had to do with having four brothers. She was just strong, probably because she had to be in that family!

    Oh, no, not at all--I'm thinking Danny butting heads with Mac or confiding in Flack or offering comfort to Hawkes... the acting is never singular, because the characters are always interacting with each other.

    Maybe... but Danny and Lindsay don't have a whole lot of chemistry, so I see Anna (and even Carmine) failing in that regard, too. The romance is easy--it panders to fans who are really just watching the show for two characters to hook up.

    Maybe arc isn't the right word--elements that flesh out the characters, perhaps. AJ plays Adam very consistently. He's nervous, he's flustered, he likes Stella, he looks up to Danny and Mac... I know who Adam is. Lindsay changes from episode to episode, because of the writing, yes, but also because Anna doesn't inhabit the character in the way the others do. It's a little less glaring in the fourth and fifth season, in large part because it seems like she's had less to do.

    To me, it felt like she was reading the script and responding to the obvious cues. She just didn't seem natural in that scene. I felt the script there. And I never feel the script (unless the lines are hugely awkward or something) with any of the other actors.

    The hand on Danny's arm was earlier, when they were out somewhere, and looking at the action I remember thinking, "Gee the script/director probably called for her to put her hand on Danny's arm." It was robotic in a way.
     
  15. Elsie

    Elsie Shopaholic

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5,644
    Likes Received:
    0
    I had an interesting conversation the other day with my sister about Lindsay. Well I thought it was interesting. ;) Basically, my sister has only ever seen two entire NY episodes, the first one being the season 5 finale, and the second one being 'Page Turner' (in that order). I don't really remember Lindsay's role in either of those episodes, but my sister, when describing all the characters and her opinions on them, could only come up with 'weak' for Lindsay. With all the other characters she could see that they may have a useful purpose and potentially interesting storylines, but she just couldn't see why they would have such a weak character in Lindsay? And that was from only two episodes...
     

Share This Page