World Politics

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Jacquie, Jan 28, 2010.

  1. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    it did, and the one with brown is just kind of offensive. it's basically saying "how can a man with a face like this be PM?" which is, well, beside the point at best!


    oh yeah, i know, and the fact they have so much support is worrying in itself. but back before they were elected to their EU position, they weren't in fact a legally mandated party - someone somewhere decides whether a party is legitimate, i can't remember who, and they're only allowed to appear on the ballots (and therefore receive votes) if that mandate is granted. i think it's less about giving parties green lights than about stopping parties that are engaging in illegal activity. the bnp were waved through in the early 00s i think. there was a huge fuss about it at the time (and rightly so i think) - on one hand they do have a lot of support (but then so did abu hamza) but on the other hand, as far as a lot of people (myself included) are concerned their activities/policies are *not* legal and therefore they should never have been allowed to stand legitimately in the first place. the only reason they got those votes is because someone somewhere said they could be voted for legitimately. if that hadn't happened, they'd still be unmandated, they'd have nothing like the power that they do, and they'd be another bunch of raving idiots making a fuss, but people could essentially just ignore them.

    yeah, it's worrying - the situation in oldham, bradford and a couple of other places is pretty worrying and really we don't need someone like the bnp coming along and stirring it up! it's bad enough already! the problem is that the bnp are very very good at tapping into discontent. they seem to be able to tailor their policy targets depending on local issues. also they have one thing on their side which is that labour have alienated so many of their traditional supporters that there's a massive amount of very disgruntled working class anger that's easy to tap into, especially if you start feeding in ideas about white/british people (obviously to the bnp you can't be british unless you're white) being passed over for housing/jobs etc. if you can distort facts a little and tap into insecurities and anger, that's a lot of votes!

    it's a big problem actually and one the main parties really really need to think about, and fast. while they're busy worrying about image and non doms and expenses, they're ignoring, alienating and pissing off the actual voters who want more concrete policies on things like jobs, housing, immigration etc (as is their right!), and in doing that they're basically fertilising the ground for the bnp to plant little seeds of anger.

    i wouldn't want to find out, i think i'd emigrate to france.
     
  2. shazza_018

    shazza_018 A Daily Anthem Moderator

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    ^Wow they weren't a legally mandated party, if you remember who decide whether or not a party is legitimate let me know, just curious that's all. Yeah the main parties do need to address this issue now while they're campaigning rather than later.

    Did anyone watch PMQs today? I missed it, I was really busy, anything news worthy happen ha.
     
  3. Desertwind

    Desertwind Head of the Day Shift

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    WOW> thank's for the reviews across the pond:bolian: interesting, thank's for sharing. So who do all of you want in this election?
     
  4. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    ^ at the moment i don't really want any of them! politicians over here have been behaving particularly badly recently! normally i'd hope for a labour win but... i can't this time. i think the best we can really hope for is the lib dems but they're not gonna win in a million years!

    i don't think it's so much about deciding who is a proper party (otherwise how do you explain the monster raving loony party!?!) than about people high up in law (i think it's the law lords and/or house of lords) disallowing those who can't (generally on legal grounds) - when the bnp started getting more popular around the time of the last general, there was a lot of pressure for them to be outlawed, with good reason i think, given their history, but they were allowed and officially mandated.

    no, i missed QT as well... damn!
     
  5. shazza_018

    shazza_018 A Daily Anthem Moderator

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    Proposals for a National Citizen Service have been revealed in the Conservatives' first major press conference of the General Election campaign.

    Cameron - Teens citizen service plan

    The scheme would aim to integrate young people into mainstream society and give them the opportunity to take part in community work, such as looking after the elderly. Under the plans,16-year-olds would take part in a two-month residential National Citizen Service (NCS) course which would initially be on a voluntary basis. David Cameron spoke positively about the non-military national service: "We must give young people more to aspire to. More shape to their lives. More responsibility. More pride in themselves and what they can do." In his speech he promised that schemes like NCS will take power from the state and give it to families. Pilot programmes have been trialled in London, Wales and the North West with charities and social enterprises taking part. Setting out how they work, Mr Cameron said: "It's going to mix young people from different backgrounds, different ethnicities and religions, in a way that doesn't happen right now." Veteran actor, Sir Michael Caine, supports the Conservatives with this initiative and when commenting he made a small slip by saying this "government" was doing a great thing by setting up the citizen service.

    Is this a joke, do they honestly think this will work? :lol: Please never not in a million years. I mean would any I know that age do this? No way.
     
  6. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    ^ i have to confess, and i almost hate myself for it, especially because this post is going to make me sound like a dyed in the wool tory, this is one plan i agree with, in theory at least. i've often said that if i were pm (ha!) i'd reinstitute national service - not so much in the armed forces (although if that was what someone wanted to do it could be an option), but with other things. although my idea would have less emphasis on community care work (which i'm not really sure most 16 year olds are actually equipped for!) but in trade learning. kind of like apprenticeships.

    britain is severely lacking in capable manual-but-skilled labourers, we have a huge shortage of builders, plumbers, electricians and so forth - hence there being so many poles doing those jobs for us (which is fine, i have no issue with immigrant workers whatsoever, but it would be nice to have a good system whereby british kids could benefit from the high demand for these trades). one area in which the new lab government went massively wrong was in its drive towards universal university education. i'm all for education, but not everyone is cut out for academic learning and the fallout is really bad - young people are under even more academic pressure, schools become driven by targets (which makes for a shoddy education at best) and exam results, including degrees, get devalued if the "market" is saturated with them (as an example just look at the way every year when teens do better in their gcses/a levels, the whole country goes "oh but they're too easy now!" - it must be massively deflating for a teen that's done well to hear that and it means whole generations are getting essentially devalued).

    in the days of apprenticeships, those who either couldn't get to uni or didn't want to go (and there should be no shame whatsoever in that, some people take to academic study, others don't, it's just the way it is) could take on manual apprenticeships that let them learn a trade that was useful to them because it gave them income and motivation, and useful to everyone else because they could get their pipes fixed on time. scrapping that idea was a really big mistake.

    if it were up to me (which it isn't, and that's probably a blessing!) i think i'd make it compulsory, either after gcses or after a levels, for all teens to undertake a year of some kind of vocational training, be it manual labour, care work, army, secretarial, whatever, maybe with some kind of option system where they could do a mixture of things for the first 3-6 months and then specialise.

    when i was 25 i went to a different uni than the one i'm at now. the one i'm at now is almost exclusively for mature students and it's brilliant, but the other one was a standard one. at the standard one i lost count of the number of people who told me they were there just because their parents/school wanted them to be, and also that they were doing their chosen degree subject just because it was the only subject at school they were good enough at doing - a lot of them said "well i like the subject but i don't love it and i don't know if i want to do it forever". quite a few had chosen their subject because their parents thought it would lead to a decent job (that was mainly things like accountancy, law, medicine) - with no regard whatsoever for whether the student was actually interested in it enough to dedicate many years to it. very very few of them had chosen a subject knowing that that was what they wanted to do and that uni was where they wanted to be. the drop out rate was huge, and most of the ones that dropped out were the ones that were just there because they didn't have much choice in it.

    as far as i can tell, 18 year olds, generally have no idea what they want to do for the rest of their lives, some do but they're by far the minority. having a massive drive to get everyone to university, while it seems noble, is just putting more pressure on teenagers to pick something because it's expected of them to do that. it doesn't allow any room for them to grow and make up their own mind.

    having been at a mature students uni for 7 years (!!!) i know that every single person at my uni has picked their course of study after a lot of careful consideration, most people there have full time jobs and/or kids as well, and they are doing this because it's what they want, they are utterly dedicated to it. the drop out rate is much, much smaller, people actually give a crap (at the standard uni classes would be almost empty because of hangovers/teenaged laziness etc - the social aspect of uni was seen by most as far more important (and i think it is important but not at the expense of learning what you've paid to learn!), at my current one classes have a constant 85-90% attendance) and it's a much better way to learn, surrounded by people who are as motivated as you.

    i did a secretarial course after school, i absolutely didn't want to go to uni (i was very ill with bipolar at the time and parental/school pressure really didn't help, so i dropped out of the uni entrance scheme and went for secretarial instead) - i ended up learning many skills that got me excellent jobs, enough money to live by myself in london, to eat, to go out, to pay rent etc. sure secretarial work isn't the most exciting but it is a very very useful set of skills, in just about any kind of profession. when i did finally go to uni (2nd try!) it was because i really wanted to, there was no outside pressure on what course to choose (in school, they wanted me to do forensics! i would've been hopeless - i much prefer the bookish subjects i've been doing, although y'know, i wouldn't mind working for mac ;) ) and, possibly most importantly, i actually enjoy it which means i try to do well.

    i think people, after school, should have a little break from book-learning education, should go out and learn something useful, find their way in the real world a little by using those skills to work, and then go to uni *if* and when they want to, making their own decisions about what to study and where, and why. and if that benefits society on a wider scale by providing more skilled labourers, or more careworkers, or young adults who are more aware of their place in society and how they can interact with it, so much the better.

    saddling someone with a student debt that these days is more like a mortgage just so they can do a course the majority of them aren't inspired by, haven't really chosen for themselves, and which they're not even sure is what they want for the rest of their lives, just seems a bit ridiculous to me.

    oh dear, went off on one there....:rolleyes::lol:
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2010
  7. Ajbuckly

    Ajbuckly Lab Technician

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    Well whether or not we want to ....

    1. global economy is link to each other. For as long as other (Asia) countries can provide the goods cheaper AND raise the level of innovation as in China. Then the need for manual labour in Europe will decline. AND as EU allready predicted: Knowledge(?) is the goods that Europe can provide. Hence the frantic focus on education AND the "need" or forced education of the Y - generation which - as the postmodern children as they are - is less prepared for then earlier generations.

    2. EU operates with 2 wery different discurs(?)/themes. A. the Anthony Giddens inspired: The culturel liberated postmodern man/woman who can do every thing she or he wants. So you are free to do what you like B. the postmodern turist/vagabond theory of Baumann which scars the politiciens into the obligatory education for every one. If you don´t educate, you will be adrift, left to the mercy of other nations.

    Guidence counselling and career theory should as far as EU goes be the answer.

    Theorist´s belives that we are scared by the wast global world and that goverments and people in general regress to some basic values such as caring for elderly or gardening or as in my country "the list of the best" which every citizen must know to be "correct"
     
  8. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    true, but i wasn't talking so much about manufacturing (because most of the last of manufacturing was sold out of this country in the 80s), i was talking more about trades like construction, plumbing, electricianing and so on, things that people need on a day to day basis, and which we have a huge shortage of at the moment. and the same situation is true of the sciences.

    knowledge is something we can provide but it would be pretty short sighted to rely on it entirely. and so yeah, the "forced" education, academic in particular, can only be a bad thing - there needs to be more balance between academic learning and other kinds. the other kinds, as things stand now, are massively devalued and dying out, which is a shame as they're incredibly useful.

    yeah, there are alternate discourses - and postmodernism in the sense you say, as far as i can tell, almost goes back to thatcher's claim that there's no such thing as society - ie every man for himself and screw the rest. i think that's a really damaging outlook for a population to have!

    oh don't get me wrong, education is important, it's just a shame when all the focus is put on one particular kind of education (academic, over manual, scientific, practical) - variety and diversity are hugely important if an economy is to survive.
     
  9. shazza_018

    shazza_018 A Daily Anthem Moderator

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    ^Well the government is now claims there is already a non-military national service in place (I'm not aware of it). Gordon Brown has mentioned this twice as well as other senior members of the Labour party. So it seems like it's not a new idea.

    I think this is a serious issue in education, teachers (especially those in my senior positions) assume pupils will do A levels and go on to University (mainly for their own numbers/record - basically they're trying to get their percentages up). They actually don't focus on any alternatives. It's compulsory for pupils to attend the UCAS Convention - for university, but they don't promote alternatives to it i.e. work-based learning.

    On the other hand, there are some academic subjects where work-placements where students work in a real-life enviroment related to their course (although I'm not sure how effect these are).

    I heard Nick Clegg on the local radio because he was visiting Leeds, he's seems very genuine and was able to answer questions well. I don't like the fact that the presenter asked him about that fact that he's atheist, it's kinda rude, religion belief should be a private matter right?

    However, Nick Clegg said he wasn't sure if there was a god or not, although his wife is catholic and his kids are bought up to practice that religion.

    Did ya hear about a Labour party member who posted offensive tweets on twitter? Serious it is just disgusting what he said.
     
  10. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    i don't think there is, although there are probably schemes they want to promote as such, but yeah, it's definitely not a new idea, i think it's important to give teenagers useful, practical alternatives to mainstream (ie academic) education and give them a chance to learn various things in that area so they can be more informed about their life decisions. for so many people what they choose to do at uni (or indeed the choice not to go to uni, but for many that's owing to a lack of relevant qualifications, which leaves them feeling like they have no other options) can dictate their whole life's course, or at least a hefty chunk of it, it makes sense for people to be able to make a more informed decision and not just drift into it.

    i totally agree - as i said, not everyone is cut out for uni learning (or wants it) so to blindly push everyone that way seems really counterproductive. the fact that the recent university drive has just led to much more target driven education is really really worrying. there are too many stories at the moment of teachers just making kids repeat the facts that they know will be on exams until they know them by heart - how the hell does that constitute education? education should be about learning in all areas of life: work stuff, social stuff, some academic stuff, some practical stuff, it shouldn't be just learning facts by rote.

    there are but i think a lot of them go with vocational courses - ie med students get hospital placements etc, they're quite tailored to the specific course and probably have no value outside of the course parameters.

    yeah he seems like a decent guy, he's far more impressive than either of the other two!

    and: oooh do you live in leeds? i love leeds, i had a few friends there for a while (and an ex, so...)

    well you'd think, definitely - we live in a (nominally) secular society, most aspects of the public sphere are - nominally at least - separate from religion and that's as it should be. but i guess we have to accept that while religion is still so popular it will impact on politics somehow. until we remove the "defender of the faith" title from our head of state, we're stuck with it. personally i think we should also remove our head of state - i'm not suggesting revolution but monarchy as an idea is totally outdated and archaic and has no place whatsoever in modern society. that our monarch is head of our national religion as well makes it doubly bad in my eyes. i accept that religious issues impact on politics but i think they should be totally separate; as long as the CofE is so closely linked with (a) the royals and (b) the government then we're stuck. christianity is unofficially cited as our national religion but that's gone back years, things have changed. there are far more people of other religions, and atheists, around now and to have a government that's so in league with one particular church (or even any church) is just heading for problems. i'm all for religious freedom but we should make like france and categorically separate religion from state.

    no, i missed that - what happened?
     
  11. shazza_018

    shazza_018 A Daily Anthem Moderator

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    For sure, totally agree.

    I meant at university level some courses allow for students to take a year out to work in their specific industry. But I know they're quite tailored.

    Yeah he's seems okay, atleast his wife is as decent as him, not being used by him in his campaign. (although she joined him today in Sheffield but only because it's the weekend!).

    haha no I wish I did live in Leeds but no, I live quite close to it tho.

    His name is Stuart MacLennan, he has since been sacked, the twitter account is also closed:

    Labour candidate Stuart MacLennan sacked over Twitter rants

    The general election campaign claimed its first scalp today when Labour sacked one of its candidates in Scotland who posted dozens of offensive comments on his Twitter page.
    The spectacular "Twitter suicide" overshadowed Labour's formal campaign launch in Scotland and left Gordon Brown fuming.
    Stuart MacLennan, 24, a rising star of the Scottish Labour Party who was standing in the Moray constituency, shut down his account on the microblogging site early this morning after The Scottish Sun reported that he had branded the elderly "coffin-dodgers".
    He had also labelled the Commons Speaker John Bercow a "t**", David Cameron a "t***" and Nick Clegg, the Liberal Democrat leader, "a b******".


    Nor was his ire limited to the political world. The Sun reported that Mr MacLennan called the X Factor judge Louis Walsh a "c***", referred to Jedward as "odious little s***s" and wrote: "I f****** hate Paolo Nutini".
    Mr MacLennan, who had been pictured campaigning with Mr Brown's wife, Sarah, apologised for his "very silly" behaviour and admitted he had let himself down.
    "Some of the things I twittered before I became a candidate were very, very silly and I can see they are offensive," he said. "I have let myself and my friends down and am really sorry."
    Although accepting that his remarks were "foolish", Scottish Labour officials initially stood by Mr MacLennan, who works for Labour at the Scottish Parliament and is Secretary of Scottish Young Labour. They pointed out that he was young and had now realised the error of his ways.
    But the Tories and SNP scented blood and moved into attack mode, calling for Labour to sack their candidate for his unacceptable comments. It soon became clear that Mr MacLennan – whose Twitter followers were said to have included Ed Balls and John Prescott – had been liberal with the expletives since being named as a prospective parliamentary candidate.
    The result was a particularly spectacular "Twitter suicide".
    A Scottish Labour spokesman confirmed that Mr MacLennan had been dropped as the candidate for Moray for "the totally unacceptable language which he has expressed online".
    He added: "Stuart MacLennan is no longer a Labour Party candidate nor eligible to hold office as a Labour Party representative."
    Out on the campaign trail, Gordon Brown said: "A candidate has made a mistake. It’s unacceptable. That candidate has got to resign.
    "I have made it absolutely clear what my views are: we cannot have people standing as candidates for the Labour Party who express these views, so that candidate will not be a candidate for the Labour."
    The Tories and the SNP questioned why Jim Murphy, the Scottish Secretary, had not moved more quickly to remove the candidate after this morning's newspaper report.
    Mr Murphy told the BBC News Channel: "Once we became aware of all the comment he has posted on Twitter, we were left with no option but to sack this individual.
    "He was a young candidate, but that’s no excuse. He was keen to engage voters through Twitter but that’s no excuse for the rubbish and offensive and hurtful comments that he made.
    "Once were we fully aware of that, we took the right action, which was to sack him as a candidate and to suspend him from membership of the Labour Party and not to allow him to hold office in the Labour Party."
    Asked why he had not acted sooner, Mr Murphy said: "I am not a follower of this individual’s Twitter feed so I had no idea of these comments, and no one in the Labour Party did."
    He added: "I would like to apologise to Labour voters in that constituency for the breach of trust that this one individual has carried out and the way in which he behaved."
    Angus Robertson, the SNP's MP for Moray, said: "Only an hour before this announcement, Jim Murphy was saying he could stay as a candidate and trying to brush off these outrageous comments.
    "However, he has been overruled and clearly has no authority. Did Gordon Brown tell his Scottish Secretary what to do?
    "This incident has completely devastated Labour’s campaign launch today, but questions must be asked as many of these comments have been online for months, and presumably Labour colleagues have been well aware of them."

    The fact that he didn't leave Jedward or Paulo Nutini out of the mess is assuming :lol:. But still he should not have said this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
  12. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    tbh i probably prefer sheffield, but y'know, both are lovely :) i don't know if i could live there though, i'm a london girl ;)

    omg what a total idiot.... :lol:

    ooh my polling card just came through the door :D
     
  13. shazza_018

    shazza_018 A Daily Anthem Moderator

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    I know right....:lol:

    awesome, mine actually came a while back, the day the election was annonced infact.

    I'm thinking of voting of Labour, not sure if that's a good thing, but I'm not 100% about the Liberal Democrats...I'll wait till the all important Leaders' Debates.

    Also Cameron is soo annoying, I will slap or something if I ever get near him urgh :rolleyes:.
     
  14. Desertwind

    Desertwind Head of the Day Shift

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    See, I don't even know who these people are, but it's cool that you've let rest of us know.:bolian:

    PALIN, OBAMA SPAR FROM A DISTANCE Sarah Palin.. shut-up:scream:

    New Orleans.. President Barack Obama and Republican Sarah Palin sparred from a distance over nuclear policy with each questioning the other's experience on the issue in a potential previes of the 2012 White House race~
    "Unbelievable," Palin said earlier this week after Obama rewrote the U.S. Nuclear strategy, and she suggested the president was weak on nuclear defense. Obama in Prague to sign a nuclear reduction treaty with Russia, countered by deriding the former Alaska governor who resigned mid-way through her first term as "not much of an expert on nuclear issues" Palin the shot back back Friday during a speech to the Southern Republican Leadership Conference in New Orleans with a reference to Obama's early career choice. Mocking the president, she dimissed "all the vast nuclear experience that he acquired as a community organizer" Palin, the 2008 VP nominee, is among roughly a dozen Republicans weighing candidates> [She shows NO respect for our President and to me is way out of line]

    NEWS SERVICES
     
  15. Jacquie

    Jacquie Ward Girl Moderator

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    Polish President Lech Kaczynski has been killed in a plane crash. The plane he, his wife and others were travelling on crashed in Russia Saturday morning. 97 people in total were killed.

    Polish President killed in plane crash
     

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