Grade 'Blacklist'

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Top41, Sep 30, 2009.

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How would you grade Blacklist?

  1. A+

    12 vote(s)
    17.4%
  2. A

    7 vote(s)
    10.1%
  3. A-

    9 vote(s)
    13.0%
  4. B+

    9 vote(s)
    13.0%
  5. B

    10 vote(s)
    14.5%
  6. B-

    7 vote(s)
    10.1%
  7. C+

    7 vote(s)
    10.1%
  8. C

    3 vote(s)
    4.3%
  9. C-

    2 vote(s)
    2.9%
  10. D+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. D

    2 vote(s)
    2.9%
  12. D-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. F

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  1. Robin

    Robin Prime Suspect

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    I was wondering what kind of make-up, lighting, camera lenses were used or if maybe they were using footage from Forest Gump.
     
  2. Nightrider

    Nightrider Witness

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    Whatever it was, it didn't work! :lol: Can TPTB please stop with the flashbacks. It's creeping me out.
    I'm glad I wasn't the only one turned off by the holier-than-thou speech at the end of the episode. I have watched many a loved one suffer and die needlessly, and trying to wrap up healthcare and insurance nightmares in a pretty bow is like trying to stuff a whale in a ring box. There are far too many gray areas to try to simply sum up the issue. If I want to be preached to, I'll go to church. Note to writers: Stick to the drama and entertainment.
     
  3. meggzie

    meggzie Police Officer

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    Not really relevant but this has been bugging me


    In the episode it states that claire is from new york but in Taxi mac said reed was born in chicago didnt he? why would reed be from chicago if claire was from new york? or did I just hear wrong?
     
  4. michmac

    michmac Hit and Run

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    ^^ I think what they meant is... Claire is from New York but must have moved to Chicago at one point in time.. met Reed's dad and had Reed in Chicago.

    Then later moved to New York with Mac when Mac joined the NYPD...
     
  5. Ceindreadh

    Ceindreadh Pathologist

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    Except that didn't Mac say that Reed's dad was Claire's high school sweetheart and that's when she got pregnant. Maybe she was sent to Chicago to have the kid but decided to stay in the city.
    (alternatively, the writers messed up)
     
  6. nel2h

    nel2h CSI Level One

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    The stories of Mac cannot tune time according to everything. Here he was married. Claire was younger at least 11 years, thus at the time one more child. Mac is only 44 years old of the 333rd history. Therefore he cannot still have done his whole Carriere.
     
  7. Carolyn_333

    Carolyn_333 Pathologist

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    Mac's dad, in one of those flashbacks, said "Claire's from New York. She has family there. You're gonna need help when the babies start coming." Mac told his father "we just got married." Claire gave Reed up for adoption when Reed was a baby years before she met Mac, so she may have been living in New York when she had Reed and gave him up for adoption. She and Mac could've been staying in Chicago after Mac found out his father had small cell lung cancer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2009
  8. Maya316

    Maya316 Lab Technician

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    ^But then what are the chances that Reed would also end up being "from Chicago", if Claire had him and gave him up for adoption in New York? Wouldn't he have most likely been adopted by a New-York family, or a family from any other city in the US?

    (I really wish TPTB would at least write down these characters' backstories somewhere every time they think of them/add to them... so they'd always have some idea of what they've already established.)

    I think Claire might've been born in New York, moved to Chicago when she was twelve/thirteen/even-younger, met Reed's dad in high school, had Reed, gave him up for adoption, met Mac, married him -- then they moved back to New York.
     
  9. MacsLady

    MacsLady CSI Level Two

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    ^I think that's most likely, Maya. If Reed is 23 in s4 (2008) then he was born in 1985. Let's say Claire is 17 when she has Reed - that is 'very young' to have a baby, and a reasonable age to have a high-school sweetheart she slept with. So she has Reed, and then maybe meets Mac when she's 20 or so. If we ignore the idea of Mac being 44 as given in the 333 episode, and go with Elwood's much more sensible idea of him being born around 1960 (that fits more with his having been an officer in the Marines) then he'd have been 28 when they met.
    Or perhaps Claire was living in New York when she got pregnant with Reed but was sent to relatives in Chicago to have him, and then decided to finish school and possibly attend college in Chicago - to avoid going back to school in New York and possibly to let things cool down in New York with her parents. Then she meets Mac and decides she wants to settle down in New York - perhaps she was hoping to get a job in the Towers, and at the same time reconnect with her family there.
     
  10. v*a*l*y

    v*a*l*y Victim

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    I gave it B+
    I liked it especially the last scenes with Mac and his father very touching:adore:
     
  11. nel2h

    nel2h CSI Level One

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    Hi MacsLady,
    Rohr was in 2008 in accordance with CSI NY 23 year-old in Season 4. If then Mac had been married, Claire is one more child. He cannot have graduated from his career. The military, police, study and 9 years of CSI. Mac is now lt. CSI 45 year old.
     
  12. Elwood21

    Elwood21 Pathologist

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    Thought I'd toss in belated two cents. Unarsed to bother prior, honestly, though I did try :lol:. See what I remember a week later. Sorta feel compelled to close the box on this one before the next one rolls in. Rambling commences.

    It felt a Ham-fisted ep. In how a hot-button topic was used, on ubertech evilness, handling of character revelations and interactions, in their apparent regard for their viewers.

    Do you like Green Eggs and Ham? I do not like them, Sam I am.

    Unengaging. Bland. Eye rolling. Little impact. Consumable and yet done in a way you'll never be sure what it was ya just ate. Not so easy going down this week either. I think the phrase "Death By Onstar" (thanks Tciddaisc) had me looking forward to the ep more than the previews. I either didn't know or didn't recall the spoilers leading into the ep, and so it wasn't even spoiled that way for me. It was just kinda meh all on it's own. Five minutes in watching the ep, later reinforced by the orange light in the elevator, I was calling it Can You Hear Me Hal.

    I remember thinking anyone so reliant on an ubertech gps locator to the point of not looking out windows while driving (which is generally a good practice while operating a motor vehicle), well, is an idiot. Or a pawn in a tv show akin to teenagers inna cheez horror flick calling out after mysteriously vanished friends before the worst somehow still manages to Surprise them. "John. John? Joooohn. Where are you. John?" "Tina. Tiiiinaaaa. Tina. Where are you. Did you hear that? Anyone?" "Jessica. Jess. Jessie? Where are you?" "Aiden? Aiden. Anyone seen-" Sorry. Two characters I'd already love to see revisted just to spark what so far this season seems lacking.

    Even if you're not from the area ya might clue in to the fact high end hotels don't typically lurk unexpectedly in dark alleys. And then ya sit there, as it dawns on you that your reservation isn't for a dimly lit dumpster, instead of backing out and driving on your way again, even as ya might call for help. The whole pretense to establish the evil big brotherness of the perp was eye rolling from the start. They tried really hard to be creepy and suspenseful, and yet it was kinda hard to take seriously, both in the realm of "gee, if that were me" pondering, and blithely accepting it for the sake of tv plottage. Not to mention following CM weekly will kinda make being successfully creepy difficult at the best of times. Suffice to say it's not good to be rolling your eyes at the set-up that's supposed to draw you in.

    I was, however, completely ready to assume that the guys in hoodies were part of some larger vendetta instead of opportune members of the "food chain" set in motion. Finding that out was a pleasant surprise, where overly planned vendettas are par. Regular criminals? In NY? Well I'll be.

    What else do I remember. That there were some nice Flack/Mac moments. That we were bombarded with more ubertech montages and soundtracks to establish that there were bugs wot needed squashing. I also remember that Flack was inna suit again, and that a touch of his snark had returned, even if the lines felt recycled, or borrowed perhaps from other shows. I also noticed that the perp he was interviewing about the GPS was really well played, and made for one of the best scenes. If not for him then just another bland browbeating. Really a highlight of the episode. For real.:)

    What else. Ooo right. Nearly forgot. I'm cheating you see. I had made a wee effort to type up a comment on the weekend but tossed it. But for that, I actually did forget about Monroe inna Whitesnake tee. Eye rolling and unmemorable. Isn't she just oh so Incredibly Hysterical and Adorable and Quirky and with hitherto unelaborated depths of Funky. Riiight. :shifty::lol:. Now that's funneh. "Lindsay" and "funky" do not exist in the same realm. But nice try. (Whether the tee is hers or Messer's was never revealed either. If it's Messer's, I hope that comes up somehow, would make a great scene with say Flack or Sheldon). No, this wasn't an external applique at all was it, in an attempt to increase her cachet of kewl and awesomeosity. I suppose it's at least saying something that they're making an effort. The show usually does character interaction well. If they were gonna go to the bother, it felt like there was so much more potential that just slid by unnoticed. Whether from the writing of it, in the manner of the throw-away subtlety they attempted, or in the acting that mighta had potential to bring more to a fun scenario, who knows.

    Would you like them here or there?

    I appreciate the efforts to hint at life outside the labs nonetheless. Even with Subtle Mallets employed. Same goes for all the characters. And I suspect I'll be coming back to this again in this ep where Mac's concerned.

    I would not like them here or there. I would not like them anywhere. I do not like green eggs and ham.

    What else. Stella & Lindsay; felt like Another Scene to have Interaction between Lindsay and ...anyone else at all really. And yes, Stella is a person who cares about the people she works with. I am, however, puzzled by the implication that Stella and Danny haven't crossed paths in the past few weeks where she could have inquired directly. More holes in the writing as much as it was a Scene Devoted To The Characters. Felt a little oddly inserted somehow. Like perpetual inquiries after Lindsay last season, but only once she was pregnant and absent and in Montana. It's not like Messer's gone anywhere, except possibly a physio/rehab clinic. But if he's in the labs, he's in the labs, yes? Stella'll make a housecall across town to bring Messer chicken soup and Whutfer, but can't find her way across the labs. Nicely contrived, writers. I'd rather have seen that effort made than the awkward scene that was.

    I do not like them in a house. I do not like them with a Mouse. I do not like them here or there. I do not like them...

    So back to the hoodied perps. I remember confirmation of a mundane shooter and victim. I cannot tell you how pleased this made me. Nice change, though Owait, there's still an evil Onstar wizard to track down.

    I remember smiling. No really. I did. :lol:. At Adam and Stella. Aw. Back to normal, and nice to see that too. But yah, uh, did notice that fleeting gesture of hand, a wee moment of contact that could have people still buzzing. :p Lolz. Also noted Adam as being hizzold x-pert voice from teh Tech Republic; cramps whatever they've set up and planned with Haylen yada, the absurdity of of thinking she could ever take his job. And inducing such an insecurity in his character will only play so far before it wears. So the onus really does lie with Ms. Becall and her agenda and lurking back story. And her boots. Heavy load to bear.

    Forgot. That whole thing known as plot. There was one. Sorta. Next installment. Restaurant scene. "Found a Peanut. It was Rotten..." Query. Has anyone ever heard of a landline. Anyone. Uberperp knew waitress would be using her personal cell phone? Or he just locked down all outgoing calls. Security cam stalker perp now too. Owow, the ominous omnipotence being displayed :shifty:. I recall Flack being pinged. I here admit to hoping for breadcrumbs being planted for later eps, that Flack's Screw Ups could be evilly framed as Chronic by our meddlesome perp. Alas. Oh well.

    Will also just say that I wasn't annoyed the perp then pinged Mac. As much as some bemoan the admittedly Odd relationship and following between Mac and Perpage, here it did kinda make sense; egotistical, righteous, and omnipotent as perp displayed himself as, it made sense that he would go after the biggest fish he could (ie. Mac as head of the CSI labs in NYC, than one of many gold shield homicide detectives). Especially with some Discovered History of Cancer in Mac's family. Besides. I suppose like also attracts like, righteous to righteous... :p Kidding, to an extent. The bigger the fish the bigger the catch and con and triumph if he pulls off everything he wants to. What I don't recall is what felt like efforts to play Mac for sympathy so much as to just play Mac, get off on manipulating and poking him too. But, it's been a week. And my notes didn't really cover that :lol:. My eyes were rolling at the moment their Fates Collided however. :lol: Mac and perps, perps and Mac. Harmonics in the high heavens. :p

    What next. Ah, yes, our bearded friend from the Tech Republic makes another appearance. And out ubers the perp. Also recall Stella getting a fun phrase in Computer Saavy Psycho. She really didn't get much to do in this one. Nor Sid. Poor Sid. Hope he gets more to do in future eps too. It's only been two, but he's always good airtime. Better n' a lotta what we've been subjected to so far. Out-screened by UberTech. Side effects of over-dosing on Shiny. People suffer.

    I remember being increasingly exasperated by the pacing of the ep. The perp was ever more boring and grating, grating in how he was shot as well as the deliberately laboured presentation, boring for how it wasn't terribly compelling. Greg Germann's usually very solid. I dunno what what wasn't working so well with his villainy. Mac holding up a sign "Call Me" was kinda fun. The phone call resulting between Mac and Grave Digger Hal wasn't. Thumb twiddles. The internal leap to grasp the perp also has cancer wasn't a leap at all. And a general wincing Urgh at the sound fx punctating the cut to commercial. It's hard to not notice that kind of shit once ya have. And it's hugely annoying.

    I do not like green eggs and ham. I do not like them, Sam I am.

    Like many, I noted certain similarities between Adam and a bearded Messer :lol:. And sorry Danny, but I liked ya better in glasses than under a beard. Adam's got that locked inna way ya can't touch :lol: Just imo of course. And Messer, ya still got sham wow tendencies in your hair. Mebbe he'll whittle himself down to a goatee, and then sideburns and then his stubbly incarnation for every stage of recovery he makes. Can't undo the dishevell all at once now can we. Wouldn't do. :p And of course I noticed another "boom." It hurts. Pavlovian, but it's really starting to hurt. :lol: If it wasn't a sign that Messer's on the mend, I'd be even less indulgent.

    That plot thing again. I recall wondering if the mechanics of all hospital elevators are sabotageable thru remote digital commands. Entirely possible I suppose. Guess I was just skeptical of the next installment of Hal, not to mention targeting a nurse, of all people, in a crusade against insurance company injustice. This was supposed to be the topical essence of the ep, yes? Not much of an impact for such an intent, gotta say. Also wonder if it's possible to die from a panic attack. I suspect, that while the physical effects are very real and can be very serious, that one typically wouldn't expire. For more medically minded folk than me. Suffice it to say that had Hal's focus been on making the woman suffer, he surely accomplished that. Whether or not he could have made the elevator drop from a remote location, that's for more elevator-minded folk than me :lol:. And gee. that wasn't predictable at all either was it. I was far more perplexed and surprised in his choosing her as a victim than the manner in which he hoped to kill her.

    But we did get to see a Mac & Hawkes scene, which is a nice mixing up of pairs, and in action no less. And woe betide unsuspecting broom handles within easy reach of Mac, especially with Sheldon abetting. Cos if a broom handle's flimsy enough to be snapped over an iron thigh then it's surely strong enough to pry open and wedge an elevator about to freefall.:p

    I recall being perplexed at the overtly sanctimonious (if understandably so) perp after, thinking that was also an interesting twist, until a return volley was lobbed by Mac. I recall thinking that could have been far worse :lol:. They really really, and I mean really, need to start using Mac better. I remember being happy that the perp's vendetta was not personally against Mac but the system of health care provision and insurance companies.

    So. Mac. Sequence that closed the ep. Nicely cyclical, we started the ep with Flack in a flashback remembering Angell, we closed the ep with Mac in a flashback remembering his father, and the cancer that took his life.

    Aside: The casting of the mother was odd. I mighta bought Gary as younger Mac due the stylistic set-up. But she did take away from that. And she also had very little to do than hover. Was a trade off to have his mother present and in the picture, but as cast I think she kinda detracted from the scene.

    Wasted opportunities. They could have framed that memory with Mac talking to Sheldon again, as he had in Azrael, or whichever ep that was. It could have been another great scene of character interaction, and given the actors just that little bit more to do. The flashback was great in intent, to show us a bit more of a pivotal moment in Mac's life, the impetus that had him make several key decisions, to retire from a successful military career, to ask Claire to marry him (if he hadn't already, either asked or married, who knows), to not return to Chicago, to move to New York, and to join the NYPD, hand picked by them no less. All good.

    TPTB this season: there's to be a new focus on the characters, doing more with them revealing more about them.

    I do love the intent. But for me this ep came off as "This Is Mac's Turn For Character Moments." Check him off in the rotation. Let's see who they move on to next. It felt like a wasted opportunity, one that was so carefully prepped on a platter. It felt like a waste of Gary Sinise, quite frankly.

    I think, in comparison, that the near closing scene with Mac in Yahrzeit, in his office watching the vid with the camp survivor talking about his father was far more powerful. I think the scene between Sheldon and Mac, making a rare personal revelation about his father and cancer, the suffering endured and what it at one point led him to ask of Mac, was more moving. A for effort here to follow up. C for realization. Mebbe a B-.

    Graded the ep overall in the realm of a C. Or was it C-. And I just voted too :lol:. Not a well paced ep, not fluid leading us thru it, not so engaging in content and drive. It had some good scenes and some fun ones; it did reveal to us more of Mac's background; the opportune GPS perp was unfortunately more interesting than evil ubertech villain, and a better performer than the victims; the hotbutton topic of health care really kinda came off as muddled rather than compelling or explorative; and yes, the ep was mallet heavy.

    Not in a box. Not with a fox. Not in a house. Not with a mouse. I would not eat them here or there. I would not eat them anywhere.

    Two eps in. The first episode was seasonal preface. The second was a chance to unleash the first untethered ep of the season. It didn't impress.

    I would not eat green eggs and ham. I do not like them, Sam I am.

    Did you know that Dr. Seuss apparently used only 223 words in writing The Cat in the Hat; bet his publisher he could use only fifty words in different ways to write another book, won that bet with Green Eggs and Ham. I just found that out. I know I just used like 20,000. I guess that's my particular gift :lol:.

    Bring on the next ep. If it's good mebbe it'll be easier to be concise about what works rather than what doesn't.
     
  13. Kreguba

    Kreguba Witness

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    Elwood, may I just say that I love your reviews.

    The time line discrepancy thing with Mac. If he was born in 1964, which would make him 44 as of 2008, it is possible for him to have done the Marines, college, and NYPD.

    He would have graduated high school in 1982 at age 18. In 'Charge of This Post' we learn that he was in the Beirut bombings in '83. Same epi we also learn he was discharged in '92. Add four years for college, that's 1996. 'Grounds for Deception' states that he and Stella have been working together for 10 years, meaning they started in 1998. The only thing unknown is how long the police academy lasts. I'm assuming only a year, which makes it feasible.

    Now, about his life with Claire. According to 'The Thing About Heroes' (I think), Mac says that he got engaged in New York. So...okay, I have no way to explain this. :( His life makes sense. His life with Claire...not so much. TPTB, make up your minds!
     
  14. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    i'm a bit baffled by the idea that it might have been danny's t shirt that she was borrowing. i can't see danny owning many women's skinny t shirts:guffaw:

    haha, very true. i loved how the broom snapped in a neatly sawn line as well, that the props folks didn't even bother to make the edges of the snapped bit look jagged, as a bit of wood would look if it had just been snapped. every time i watch that scene it reminds me of Ringo's line in help! when he tries to climb a ladder and all the rungs snap in neat lines and he says, in surprise "all of the rungs have been neatly sawn in half!" - i keep wanting to say "the broom has been neatly sawn in half!"

    i know what you mean - i actually quite liked it, but i thought it could've been a LOT better, and i think they could've really gone places with gary's quite obvious acting talent, it did seem somewhat damp-squib-like, a bit muted, but then i guess they have considerations in terms of audience, air-time, network expectations etc that all play a part in muting storylines.

    yes! yeah, that was brilliant - it was so subtle, no dodgily aged flashbacks necessary, just a great bit of acting that said a lot more than most of the flashback stuff this time ever could.
     
  15. Elwood21

    Elwood21 Pathologist

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    ^^ Thanks very kindly KReguba :) (And I now feel slightly less guilty for the length :lol::p)

    As for Mac. More two cents. Marine Officers typically need college to qualify to be so, which is why I'd put his dob around 1960. My reasoning was all in another long rambling post I'd put inna review thread somewheres. Well. Went digging. If yer bored, [post=922087]FWIW[/post]. The ages of the characters don't matter terribly to me, beyond the continual fudging the show seems to indulge in, and I can't tell if it's deliberate or oblivious.

    :p

    Well, now, sue me for fuzzy recollection of wardrobe details from a scene I'd said I'd largely forgot, barring the fact she was inna whitesnake tee atall :lol:. At least I got part of it right? Kinda sorta? :lol: (The rest of what I said I stand by ;):p)

    But ya know... I think that would be even more fun then if it were Messer's... :p:lol: And all the better to have come to light with Flack or Sheldon. C'mon. No? :p

    Okay. I need to stop. :lol:

    I liked it too. But it was somehow ...just ...lesser. And they devoted a fair chunk of screentime to it; moments thru the ep where Mac's history was spoken of, where perhaps a snippet coulda been branched to involve Stella or Sheldon; the flashback itself was even and unrushed; and the final stare didn't dissipate too quickly either. I think they've done better with the same or more densely concentrated screentime in the past, and so while I liked getting to know more of that part of Mac's life story, the way it was done up was, for me, kinda disappointing. Setting my own hopes for the best and better aside, I've seen the bar they've set for themselves in past eps. They didn't meet it. Didn't seem like they pushed.

    with Gary they certainly coulda done it up in any number of ways. He did what he was asked. It seems he wasn't asked to do too much is all, but it was nice he got to do more than the usual.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2009

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