What if????

[Florry86]

I actually liked Megan on the show.The show would be totally different if Megan was still on the show. Calleigh wouldn't be placed in the authority position that she has now. She's looked at as the second-in command and when Megan was on the show, it wasn't anything like that... In my opinion.

Yeah, that's exactly what I think it would have happened, if she had stayed on the show. Surely, her departure helped a lot TPTB to build the new character Calleigh became. While Megan was there, there was no chance Calleigh would have been developed in the great way they did right after Megan's departure & surely Calleigh wouldn't have been so "powerful" as now :shifty:

Well let's say that Megan's departure gave TPTB the chance to put Calleigh as second-in command, something which would have never happened w/ Kim on the show

Don't get me wrong but Megan had some sorta of personality that bothered me a little, IDK why, her husband has just died and she wanted her job [lt.] again... err, heck, IDK :lol:

I've never thought about this aspect, but you know sometimes when something really bad happens to you or your family (aka her husband's death), you do anything you can not to think about it. IDK some times you would do anything just not think about bad things, you know when you have to concentrate on something else .
Guess it was the same thing for Megan, though I will never understand why she necessarily wanted to be Lt. :lol:

I think Kim Delaney is a wonderful actress. I really wish both she and her character had been given just a little more time to catch on (I think Delaney just needed a little more time to find her place and settle in the part.) because I think that character's position was important.

Yeah I've heard the same rumours as anyone else had heard too & yeah I think that if nothing like that had happened (I mean the arguments ), she surely would have had enough time to settle down.
I just think she has never given that kind of opportunity, probably, b/c she had the brilliant idea to argue w/ David . I mean…as much as tiring David can be, it was pretty odd from Kim to immediatly argue w/ him .

Megan, as second in command (although I never got the feeling she felt second - I always thought she still felt she was in charge ) was never shy about confronting Horatio if she thought he was losing focus or making a judgment without first having the science to back it up. While Calleigh is supportive, she hasn't shown an ability to actually challenge Horatio's decisions. Either she doesn't have that ability or she has no interest in doing so.

Probably, that’s b/c we have never had a real chance to know her properly, but I have never considered this aspect, also b/c I perfectly know how Calleigh as second in command is, that I never felt the urgue to compare Calleigh w/ Megan.

I must admit this is such a great point & I really thank you for pointing this aspect out. You’re right, Calleigh has never argued w/ her boss. I do think it was impossible for her to always agree w/ her boss, so I’m pretty sure that even when he did something wrong (& yeah he made lots of mistakes), she never pointed them out & she never felt the need to argue w/ him.

While, I think it is a smart choice from Calleigh, I do think that sometimes they must argue. It’s not that realistic from two very brilliant people like Calleigh & H not to ever argue on anything. I mean even when she has a problem, right now, Calleigh tends to omit everything to H (cheat sheet example comes to my mind right now ), rather than argue w/ him or anyone else.
I mean Calleigh, sometimes, is too kind towards anyone, that I really think someone from the lab is going to hurt her, seriously

I've stated before, and I'll reiterate it here, I think they need to add a strong female presence that provides not only support, but is the confidant that Horatio has never had (I always wondered why they didn't use Frank as a confidant for Horatio), who also provides the honest, in-your-face assessment of his actions. That's been missing since Megan left.

You’re absolutely right, again.
As much people love Calleigh & as much she can be a Bullet Girl whenever it’s time to face a bad guy (even if lately, I’ve been missing this part too ), she has always been too supportive & I agree too that H needs a confidant

As for Yelina, I do think the bad part came into play once Horatio decided to use her as an U.C. agent.
Ok that fans wanted her back & ok that TPTB wanted to please fans (I’m on of those fans, btw), but seriously….putting her first as a P.I. & then as a H’s toy (seriously, he’s going to use her whenever he needs some info, nothing else :shifty: ) wasn’t that great, also b/c I just can’t see the Yelina Salas I used to know.

Then, again, I think it’s TPTB’s intention to ruin women’s reputation. I mean even when you have a strong woman on the show, I see the tendency from TPTB to make them weaker & weaker.

but i always found that her and horatio were constantly this is right.....no this way is right and so forth and speed in the center of those two?? for a bit anyways

Ahahah I must say that whenever they had to argue, I couldn’t help laughing :lol:

It was frustrating and depressing to see them systematically take this strong, independent woman and change her first into a vindictive woman and then into the damsel in distress that needs be taken care of.

Unfortunately this is a tendency I’m seeing on the show for a while. I mean it’s not possible that all the strong women CSI:Miami used to have had to leave the show or, even worse, become weaker & weaker in time.

Ok I do think it’s time for another question.

Dispo Day! While watching this episode we saw some very nice scenes (funny or sad) & yeah it’s time for two questions, one sad & one funny :lol:
- What if Speed had cleaned his gun? Was his problem to be blamed for that cop’s death as he told Calleigh he felt responsible for it?
- What if Calleigh hadn’t been dosed? Would have our team figured out anything, or would have they been looking for any possible answer for days?

 

[lox3csimiami22]

Ahh, I'm so out of tune with the first season. Or whenever Speed blamed the cop's death on the gun (???)
I wished Speed had cleaned his gun. I miss him on the show. Sometimes, I wish that somehow it was lie, you know, like Speed never died but he went into hiding or something and then he comes back in the newer seasons (and not as a ghost). Haha, maybe too soap opera-ish
I think its funny when Calleigh got dosed in that episode, it would be so nice to see a scene with her like that now. It would just be too funny. I think the team would have eventually figured out, it probably would have been days though...
Ohh, I'll have to watch the episode again to give an accurate answer to this question.

 

[Florry86]

Ahh, I'm so out of tune with the first season. Or whenever Speed blamed the cop's death on the gun (???)

Being the very sensitive person he was, Speed felt responsible for his death since he thought that if had cleaned his gun, that cop wouldn't have been killed during the shooting


Don't worry, we'll be in s2 in no time :lol:

 

[belluvsmiami]

Dispo Day! While watching this episode we saw some very nice scenes (funny or sad) & yeah it’s time for two questions, one sad & one funny :lol:
- What if Speed had cleaned his gun? Was his problem to be blamed for that cop’s death as he told Calleigh he felt responsible for it?
- What if Calleigh hadn’t been dosed? Would have our team figured out anything, or would have they been looking for any possible answer for days?[/QUOTE]


Well in my opinion they all feel bad when they cant save some one like ep one eric tried so hard to save the victim from the plane crash but they were already gone and even when H told him to stop he kept going, Horatio felt bad when his mentor went into disarm the bomb and ended up getting killed (oh by the way H you stole evidence too in that ep losing face so ha you and ryan do have something in common you steal :lol: even if it were a ring still evidence is evidence lol) anyways back to the topic....

I dont think it was his problem that got the cop killed because they started the diversion of an accident and then crazy shooting before any of them could really even think of grabbing their guns but naturally speed felt bad cos he didnt fire any rounds.

And im sure they would have figured out the drug in the tiles was it it?? as Horatio seems to look at a guy and think " yep your my guy cos you look suspicious even if your not im sure ill get you on something" he seems to have this criminal radar doesnt he?? anyways im done rambling

 

[lox3csimiami22]

Ahh, I'm so out of tune with the first season. Or whenever Speed blamed the cop's death on the gun (???)

Being the very sensitive person he was, Speed felt responsible for his death since he thought that if had cleaned his gun, that cop wouldn't have been killed during the shooting


Don't worry, we'll be in s2 in no time :lol:

Oh yeah, I remember that. ^^
I still am going to have to watch some of the episodes again from that season. Okay, that's great then. I'm just finishing up the DVD set from s2

 

[Delynn]

Yep. I've heard that as well. Another little ditty that Caruso's been blamed for (along with every actor who ever left the show did so because Caruso's such a monster! ). He's been accused of being responsible for getting Kim Delaney fired because he didn't want to work with a NYPD Blue alum. It's a bunch of BS, but unfortunately all anyone has to do is say it and it becomes fact for those who hate. And they are more than happy to keep spreading it to anyone who'll listen until it becomes "fact".

Yeah I've heard the same rumours as anyone else had heard too & yeah I think that if nothing like that had happened (I mean the arguments ), she surely would have had enough time to settle down. I just think she has never given that kind of opportunity, probably, b/c she had the brilliant idea to argue w/ David . I mean…as much as tiring David can be, it was pretty odd from Kim to immediatly argue w/ him .

Florry, I think you misunderstood me, darlin'. I didn't mean to say in any way that those rumors were true. It is my understanding that Caruso and Delaney did NOT argue and that her not continuing with the show was totally TPTB decision. They felt Delaney wasn't right for the part and wasn't clicking with anyone - and yes, they were hoping for some sort of chemistry with Caruso that never materialized. It was Caruso haters that immediately spread the word that he demanded she be fired. We have two totally conflicting stories if you have information that they argued. It's my understanding that everyone got along fine and that Caruso had no intention of rocking the boat that early - especially when he'd waited so long for an opportunity like CSI Miami. He was willing to deal with anything and make it work. That's not saying that he didn't have his difficult moments once the show found it's legs. I'm not that naive!

Megan, as second in command (although I never got the feeling she felt second - I always thought she still felt she was in charge ) was never shy about confronting Horatio if she thought he was losing focus or making a judgment without first having the science to back it up. While Calleigh is supportive, she hasn't shown an ability to actually challenge Horatio's decisions. Either she doesn't have that ability or she has no interest in doing so.

Probably, that’s b/c we have never had a real chance to know her properly, but I have never considered this aspect, also b/c I perfectly know how Calleigh as second in command is, that I never felt the urgue to compare Calleigh w/ Megan.

I must admit this is such a great point & I really thank you for pointing this aspect out. You’re right, Calleigh has never argued w/ her boss. I do think it was impossible for her to always agree w/ her boss, so I’m pretty sure that even when he did something wrong (& yeah he made lots of mistakes), she never pointed them out & she never felt the need to argue w/ him.

While, I think it is a smart choice from Calleigh, I do think that sometimes they must argue. It’s not that realistic from two very brilliant people like Calleigh & H not to ever argue on anything. I mean even when she has a problem, right now, Calleigh tends to omit everything to H (cheat sheet example comes to my mind right now ), rather than argue w/ him or anyone else.

See, I believe that it's an important part of the job of the second-in-command to challenge the decisions of his/her boss when they feel he/she is wrong or making a mistake. They are there to play the devil's advocate in the decision making process and present a prespective the boss may not have thought about. Calleigh isn't a wallflower in any other aspect of her job, but she has never provided Horatio that counterbalance he so desperately needs.

Megan was never afraid to force Horatio into thinking about what he was doing. And it did make him stop and think when he was investigating Al's death. In fact Megan's perspective was imperative at that point. Calleigh has never provided that different perspective for Horatio.

As for Yelina, I do think the bad part came into play once Horatio decided to use her as an U.C. agent. Ok that fans wanted her back & ok that TPTB wanted to please fans (I’m on of those fans, btw), but seriously….putting her first as a P.I. & then as a H’s toy (seriously, he’s going to use her whenever he needs some info, nothing else :shifty: ) wasn’t that great, also b/c I just can’t see the Yelina Salas I used to know.

I see it happening a little earlier than that. Does anyone else find Horatio using Yelina in an undercover capacity strange? Where the hell did that come from, anyway? I understood him using her as a P.I. to get information for him about Kyle, but this undercover thing is out of left field. They have policewomen for the stuff she is doing. Is she back on the MDPD payroll or is Horatio paying her out of his pocket? I'd really like someone to explain to me what the heck that's all about.

Then, again, I think it’s TPTB’s intention to ruin women’s reputation. I mean even when you have a strong woman on the show, I see the tendency from TPTB to make them weaker & weaker.

Boy have you got that right! I swear they work overtime to see what they can do to destroy these characters - and not just the women, but the women do see to take the greater beating. God forbid they be strong, competent professional who aren't a damsel in distress every other episode!

They writers need to ask themselves why they feel this need. Perhaps some kind of counseling would help!

 

[Florry86]

Florry, I think you misunderstood me, darlin'. I didn't mean to say in any way that those rumors were true. It is my understanding that Caruso and Delaney did NOT argue and that her not continuing with the show was totally TPTB decision. They felt Delaney wasn't right for the part and wasn't clicking with anyone - and yes, they were hoping for some sort of chemistry with Caruso that never materialized. It was Caruso haters that immediately spread the word that he demanded she be fired. We have two totally conflicting stories if you have information that they argued. It's my understanding that everyone got along fine and that Caruso had no intention of rocking the boat that early - especially when he'd waited so long for an opportunity like CSI Miami. He was willing to deal with anything and make it work. That's not saying that he didn't have his difficult moments once the show found it's legs. I'm not that naive!

Ops I read it wrong.

IDK whether this rumours are true or not & judging your post, I do think they're not true, even if I wouldn't be so sure also b/c, at least that's what I know, David & Kim had already some problems in getting along w/ eachothers even before CSI:Miami.
Having said this, IDK whether this stuff is 100% true or not &, quite frankly, I don't care b/c, then again, I do feel it is completely stupid from people not to be able to get along w/ eachothers in this kind of business. If they have a problem than solve it w/o having one else knowing anything about it.

Not to mention that it's none of our business

So yeah if they argued, it is stupid that we had one of the two to leave the show just to be able go on w/ it.
If they didn't argue, well I didn't say anything about neither David nor Kim & their arguments

Sorry, again for the misunderstanding, but I had a completely different information than you & I thought that your post was kinda "yeah I heard that rumours too". I didn't think that "& they're not true" was implied too

 

[Finch]

I'm late to the thread. Oops. Great thread idea, by the way, Florry. I'm always musing about 'what ifs' offboard. :lol:


What if the very first episode of CSI:Miami hadn't been so successful? Do you think TPTB would have cancelled the show?

Like everyone has said, I don't think they would have canceled the show. They would have given it a fighting chance, especially since CSI was starting to become more popular. Some may think Miami started a little too soon after CSI but I'm glad they didn't wait too long because the interest in the show was still fresh and intriguing -- and given that the show was to be set in Miami (there was so much that could be done!), to me it was already successful even before it aired.

What if Megan had never left the lab? Do you think it would have been the same or something would have changed? Do you also think that she was that useful for the show since it actually survived without her?

Honestly, I could see the show doing well whether she was still there or not - assuming she would have been given some more development - but I was okay with her being gone. I'm not sure the exact reason why TPTB decided her character was to be implemented after the pilot (I mean, they did good adding Flack in 'Blink' after NY's pilot episode) but to me, she was a little awkward and it was almost like she was an after-thought or an experimental character.

I also got the impression from Megan and Horatio that 'this lab isn't big enough for the both of us' and I don't see how that could have ever been rectified without a constant grudge from one or both of the characters.

Don't get me wrong, I loved how Megan grounded Horatio and butted heads with him -- Lord knows our current HoCaine certainly needs a kick in the ass sometimes.

See, I believe that it's an important part of the job of the second-in-command to challenge the decisions of his/her boss when they feel he/she is wrong or making a mistake.

Yes! I think that would have been one of the more major differences in the 'now' show and what it could have been had they kept Megan around. I'm pretty sure Horatio wouldn't have expended as many bullets as he has.

That said, I'm not losing any sleep over the loss of her character but it would have been nice to have this balance, especially in the more recent seasons.

Dispo Day! While watching this episode we saw some very nice scenes (funny or sad) & yeah it’s time for two questions, one sad & one funny :lol:
- What if Speed had cleaned his gun? Was his problem to be blamed for that cop’s death as he told Calleigh he felt responsible for it?
- What if Calleigh hadn’t been dosed? Would have our team figured out anything, or would have they been looking for any possible answer for days?

If Speed had cleaned his gun, he probably wouldn't even have been in the episode. :lol: It was a great opportunity for character development and shock value for the teaser.

I don't think he was to blame for the cop's death but I do understand why he blamed himself. I also think that if his gun hadn't been clean and no one had died, he'd still think 'someone could have died' and the self-blame would have remained. It was great to see him struggling with his own conscience, whether he was at fault or not.

If Calleigh hadn't been dosed, I don't think the episode would have gone anywhere, to be honest. It's case-breakers like that which tie the episodes together in a neat package (having the CSI themself unknowingly be the answer to the puzzle). It's what made the episode that much more clever. I don't think the team would have solved the case if that hadn't happened.

 

[Jag Lady]

Originally Posted by Florry86
Then, again, I think it’s TPTB’s intention to ruin women’s reputation. I mean even when you have a strong woman on the show, I see the tendency from TPTB to make them weaker & weaker.
Boy have you got that right! I swear they work overtime to see what they can do to destroy these characters - and not just the women, but the women do see to take the greater beating. God forbid they be strong, competent professional who aren't a damsel in distress every other episode!

I couldn't agree more. And how about letting at least ONE of those women have a good man?? Seems the only woman who had a good, healthy relationship was Alexx, and she's no longer there (Though I sort of hope that changes) *off rant*

Speaking of Dispo Day, what if Jack Seeger had stayed on as IAB instead of bringing in Rick Stetler? And does anybody think Horatio delivered the best line to IAB? "You guys couldn't find your a$$ with both hands!" (Though in the military I heard a not-so-clean version of that)

 

[Florry86]

I'm late to the thread. Oops. Great thread idea, by the way, Florry. I'm always musing about 'what ifs' offboard. :lol:

No worries & thanks

I also got the impression from Megan and Horatio that 'this lab isn't big enough for the both of us' and I don't see how that could have ever been rectified without a constant grudge from one or both of the characters.

I agree. I really think this was the real problem TPTB had to face at the time. I mean they were both 2 very strong characters & there's no way for a show to be successful in time keeping this two working together. Not to mention that I think we would have started yawning whenever it was time to see an "argument" between Megan & H :lol:

If Speed had cleaned his gun, he probably wouldn't even have been in the episode. :lol:

And this is so true :lol:

I don't think he was to blame for the cop's death but I do understand why he blamed himself. I also think that if his gun hadn't been clean and no one had died, he'd still think 'someone could have died' and the self-blame would have remained. It was great to see him struggling with his own conscience, whether he was at fault or not.

You know? That's exactly what I think & that's exactly why I love Speed. He was always so senstive about lots of things. I mean whenever he made a mistake or screwed up, he was always the first one to say "Ok something is not going well" &, even if he didn't solve some problems aka his gun :shifty:, he was always the first one to think about a possible way to solve them.

Now, we all have people w/ a problem & no one tries to ask help to someone much more perfect than them to solve it, unless they're lovers.
Don't get me wrong, but I'm a little bit tired of our CSIs having a problem & behaving like idiots just b/c they don't want anyone else to help them since they're too proud. It's time to stop this horrible trend .
Rant over :lol:

If Calleigh hadn't been dosed, I don't think the episode would have gone anywhere, to be honest. It's case-breakers like that which tie the episodes together in a neat package (having the CSI themself unknowingly be the answer to the puzzle). It's what made the episode that much more clever. I don't think the team would have solved the case if that hadn't happened.

Exactly!! :thumbsup:Not to mention that the idea of cocaine in the marble was just brilliant!! :guffaw:

Speaking of Dispo Day, what if Jack Seeger had stayed on as IAB instead of bringing in Rick Stetler? And does anybody think Horatio delivered the best line to IAB? "You guys couldn't find your a$$ with both hands!" (Though in the military I heard a not-so-clean version of that)

Yeah that was absolutely the best line ever, to me :lol:

As for Jack, I have to say that I hated him & I didn't see how he could have stayed as IAB also b/c his first investigation got blown up on his face by Calleigh, who got dosed & was the answer of the case, & by the Journalist, who oh yeah was the mole :lol:.
So, I really don't see how he could have stayed there after that disaster . At least, Rick is perfectly right about some things (Stand Your Ground comes to my mind, even if he did it for the wrong purpose)

 

[Jag Lady]

As for Jack, I have to say that I hated him & I didn't see how he could have stayed as IAB also b/c his first investigation got blown up on his face by Calleigh, who got dosed & was the answer of the case, & by the Journalist, who oh yeah was the mole :lol:.
So, I really don't see how he could have stayed there after that disaster

I missed that part. Wow. I guess it's been a while since I've seen that epi! I wondered why MDPD went through so many IAB agents in the beginning.

 

[Florry86]

As for Jack, I have to say that I hated him & I didn't see how he could have stayed as IAB also b/c his first investigation got blown up on his face by Calleigh, who got dosed & was the answer of the case, & by the Journalist, who oh yeah was the mole :lol:.
So, I really don't see how he could have stayed there after that disaster

I missed that part. Wow. I guess it's been a while since I've seen that epi! I wondered why MDPD went through so many IAB agents in the beginning.

I haven't been watching it for a while either.
Jack was investigating on the mole since it was pretty obvious someone told the criminals when the police was heading towards the incinerator. He was the responsible for the tests & during these tests Calleigh came out positive for cocaine. So, Jack immediatly thought she was the mole w/o thinking about the possibility she got dosed w/ Mr. Tomassi's marble. OFC this was all part of a drug system & the real mole was a journalist.
That's all I remember. So yeah I don't see how he could have stayed there as IAB :lol:

Time for another question?
Freaks and Tweaks.
What if Horatio had never met Suzie?

 

[CSI-AJ]

Time for another question?
Spring Break.
What if Horatio had never met Suzie?

Do you mean Suzie Barnum? I think she first appeared in Freaks and Tweaks.

But as for your question, Horation would probably never have learned about his brother (The full truth) and Madison likely would have died due to lack of marrow

 

[Florry86]

Time for another question?
Spring Break.
What if Horatio had never met Suzie?

Do you mean Suzie Barnum? I think she first appeared in Freaks and Tweaks.

Yep & IDK why but I meant Freaks and Tweaks & I wrote "Spring Break" :lol:. Thanks for warning me about the post :lol: