Was Lindsay's Anger Justified?

[Top41]

I want to feel some sympathy for her, being shut out of the life of the person she thinks she's in love with. But her behaviour just precludes that.

That's how I felt, too--I wanted to sympathize with her, but I couldn't because of her behavior. The whole thing is kind of baffling--it really could have been a chance to get the audience to feel for Lindsay, and I feel like it was totally blown, in two big ways: one by not having her know about Rikki and Danny sleeping together and two, with her complete overreaction to Danny withdrawing into himself to deal with his grief. Again, I can see her confronting him about it. But the way she did it was just so insensitive and cruel, and in light of how Danny treated her when she was going through her ordeal in season three, totally hypocritical.

I feel like there was an opportunity for me to sympathize with the character here, and it got totally blown.

 

[origin-nknwn]

To all the people who think her anger was justified forget that Danny supported her all through her trail and let her have space when she asked for it. If Danny had acted this way through her ordeal would you not be calling him an @$$hole and everything else in the book?

The fact that Danny tolerated her standing him up for their date, then stood back like she asked and then supported her through the trial just exacerbates my view of how selfish her behaviour is.

I feel like there was an opportunity for me to sympathize with the character here, and it got totally blown.

Exactly. I was just indifferent to her as a character then. Now I just can't wait to see the back of her.

 

[Kimmychu]

I'll echo the opinion that if Lindsay had known about Rikki and she's been in a relationship all this time with Danny, then yes, it would have been justified.

But she doesn't, even now.

And thanks to the lousy way the whole situation's been handled, we still have no idea whether there was ever a relationship to begin with.

So, no, Lindsay's anger isn't justified. The way she's treating Danny is plain immature and petty, especially considering what she's mad about is that Danny didn't go to her like she expected him to, on her own terms and conditions.

 

[carolina]

It hurts me that you saw my darkest moments, but you don’t trust me with yours.

I just read this in a fanfic and it perfectly describes how I feel about the way she acted. like she felt that she was good enough to be saved but not good enough to save him.

there is also the trust issue. she didint let him in totally but let him know what she needed at that time. he didnt. and given the fact that the status of their relationship changed I can understand her pain and the anger and the frustration. it sounded like she tried to give him what she thought - given her own experiance, he needed but you can go on wild guesses only for so long.

they say that shared grief is half the grief and she was willing to share it. he just wouldnt let her. you might say it was selfish on her part but I dont see anything selfish on hurting when the person you love is in pain and there is nothing you can do about it simply because he wouldnt let you

 

[privatename]

I don't think Lindsay was justified in her anger for many of the same reasons as others have posted, so I won't reiterate.

they say that shared grief is half the grief and she was willing to share it. he just wouldnt let her. you might say it was selfish on her part but I dont see anything selfish on hurting when the person you love is in pain and there is nothing you can do about it simply because he wouldnt let you

But in my mind, she has now actually added to his hurting. She is making him feel bad for not turning to her. Why would you add that kind of burden to someone you love who is already emotionally burdened. Yes, she wants to help, but he doesn't want her to -- at least not yet. And remember this took place less than two months after the death of Rueben. That isn't a very long time for grief especially mixed with guilt. If he feels right now that he has to deal with things privately then that is his right.

I really do get that she would be hurt, but it is the anger and the treating him like he has done something wrong by not turning to her that I have a problem with.

 

[Sammy11]

they say that shared grief is half the grief and she was willing to share it. he just wouldnt let her. you might say it was selfish on her part but I dont see anything selfish on hurting when the person you love is in pain and there is nothing you can do about it simply because he wouldnt let you

But in my mind, she has now actually added to his hurting. She is making him feel bad for not turning to her. Why would you add that kind of burden to someone you love who is already emotionally burdened. Yes, she wants to help, but he doesn't want her to -- at least not yet. And remember this took place less than two months after the death of Rueben. That isn't a very long time for grief especially mixed with guilt. If he feels right now that he has to deal with things privately then that is his right.

This pretty much sums up how I feel, when you love someone you don't dump your emotional problems on them when they are going through their emotional problems - that far out weight your own.

Everybody grieves in their own way, Danny's was to shut down, to internalise everything, which whilst not healthy is still his right.

Nobody else has pushed him to talk. Flack is the only one we have seen actually support Danny, Danny pushed him away, but instead of seeing Danny as being bratty (which you could see the "you shoulda minded ya own business" as) he saw it for what it (IMO) was, a tired and defeated I'm not worthy of anybody's concern, I got a kid shot.

Flack didn't push Danny to talk, he just made sure Danny knew he had a friend, that he was still worthy of that. That nothing Danny could do would change his friend's opinion of him. Plus Flack stopped him doing something incredibly stupid and possibly losing his job!

Lindsey hasn't offered her support, she just got upset when he didn't turn to her. How does he know he can if you don't tell him?

That's what I find difficult. The two things she is angry about (or shown to be) are not of a big deal AT ALL. As far as I could tell nobody else remembered her birthday either? And then all he did was pass on lunch, if that's how collegues behave next time I do that, maybe i'll work somewhere else!

If they were dating/ in a relationship it still makes no sense. Surely you would remind said boyfriend of the impending day and what you planned to do on it (especially if he is distant because you would realise that he isn't in the mindset to plan some big party for your day, you may even be really considerate and allow him to be a party pooper and stay in and grieve) and why would you mind if your fella passed on lunch? You will see him at some point? Surely?

I think whilst she could be upset that he hasn't turned to her, she shouldn't be speaking to him about it, that is not his problem that she feels like that, it's hers.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

I really do get that she would be hurt, but it is the anger and the treating him like he has done something wrong by not turning to her that I have a problem with.

Exactly. She could've shown concern and offered comfort but let him have the choice of whether or not to accept that conern and comfort. You know, like he did for her. Instead she chose anger and heaped on more guilt even though she had never tried to show concern or offered comfort up to that point. Even when he apologized to her, which he didn't have to do, she took the opportunity to reiterate how hard he makes it for her to love him. He's offering an olive branch and she's responding to that by pouring salt into his wounds. I'm sorry, but to me those are not the actions of a woman who is concerned about the man she loves.

 

[dutch_treat]

PerfectAnomaly said:
Even when he apologized to her, which he didn't have to do, she took the opportunity to reiterate how hard he makes it for her to love him.

Especially that part of the phone conversation led me to believe that some of her anger was indeed justified. The fact that he did acknowledge that he had pushed her away and the way he smiled after she told him that he was hard to love were enough proof for me (although we didn't see it on screen) that she had tried once or twice or even more times to talk to him and that he feels like he deserved some of her anger because he has been treating her horribly, for an understandable reason, but that still should not excuse all behaviour.

And to be honest the only times I thought she was really angry was after he forgot her birthday and after that time she called him for lunch, in LWFM and PF she seemed more sad and tired than angry.

I do, however, agree that now that he has taken the first step to try and make things up or talk things out between them, that she has to accept that peace offering and should talk to him or at least hear him out.

 

[carolina]

And to be honest the only times I thought she was really angry was after he forgot her birthday

Ive got the feeling that what made her angry at that point was his poor atempt for an excuse rather then the fact he forgot her birthday.

If he feels right now that he has to deal with things privately then that is his right.

you are right. but Ive got the feeling like he really started to deal with his grief and guilt only at the end of PF. up until that point he was running and hiding from it. and he needed somthing or someone to pull him out of it. she may have not be the right person or done it in the right way but he needed a kick in the ass - Flack tried and it didnt work at the time, maybe it was too soon. even Lady V tried and it did nothing at all. it may be my fluffy side speaking but Lindsay actually got through to him. he would be probably able to figure it ou t on his own too but maybe not

 

[Sammy11]

And to be honest the only times I thought she was really angry was after he forgot her birthday

Ive got the feeling that what made her angry at that point was his poor atempt for an excuse rather then the fact he forgot her birthday.

Well yes, blaming that fact that you are male and men don't remember things like that is pretty pathetic.

And I agree he could have just said, what with everything going on in his life right now Lindsey's birthday was the last thing on his mind. Perhaps he didn't want to come across like that, maybe he though that the pathetic "i'm a man" excuse would make less out of the situation so he didn't have to dredge up all his feelings?

Perhaps it was just crappy writing?...

but Ive got the feeling like he really started to deal with his grief and guilt only at the end of PF.

I think Danny has been dealing with the guilt since it happened, just not in a healthy way.

up until that point he was running and hiding from it.

My feeling is that he hasn't got over his guilt in order to actually start to grieve.

He got in between Rikki and her son's shooter more less saying that he was responsible and that if anyone deserved her anger it should be him, if that isn't someone feeling guilty? Now I'm not saying he actually wanted her to do it, and that it was more of an attempt to make her some sense in all her grief but that was one hell of a risk to take.

Flack tried and it didnt work at the time

I agree when you say that it was probably too soon for Danny to really listen to Flack, at the same time though I don't remember Flack actually giving Danny a kick (in the metorphorical sense), he bawled Danny out for doing something stupid, but in the end he helped him and also protected him a little making sure Danny didn't do anything further to jepordize his career. Then he told Danny that he had a friend, or re-iterated that Danny had a friend.

To my knowledge Lindsey hasn't told Danny that what happened wasn't his fault (although IMHO he does have some responsibility) Flack said outright that Danny should stop blaming himself, and Flack received an honest answer, that Danny believes he should be. As far I am concerned (as it hasn't been shown) Lindsey and Danny have not had that conversation?... Does she know that Danny still feels guilty?

even Lady V tried and it did nothing at all

I am assuming that "Lady V" is Rikki? Rikki didn't try... well not how I saw it, I saw them using each other for comfort in a time of mutual grieve and guilt. Danny allowing her to use him to seek comfort she needed and that she allowed Danny to comfort her perhaps realisesing he needed to be helping her in some way she needed. That was all I really got from that. Again just how I read those scenes.

Lindsay actually got through to him

I think what Lindsey got through was that she was angry at him because she loved him and realised that the feelings weren't totally mutual (he may care about her, but from what I read in that speech was that it was one sided as far as love was concerned) and that she had to find away to stop loving him. If Danny didn't have enough to feel guilty about now he has someone else's feelings to deal with that he now also feels responsible for.

But also now he has a chance to fix that so he doesn't have to feel guilty for it anymore. He can't bring Ruben back for Rikki, nothing he can do for Rikki is ever going to fill that gaping hole she'll have. That's is a huge thing to feel responsible for and guilty about, but he can fix things with Lindsey, he can stop her feeling unloved... he can take responsibilty for those feelings she told him about and stop that guilt he (in my experience you feel when someone tell you they love you and you had no idea) probably feels.

If she realised that Danny didn't love her and she had to find away to deal with that why did she tell him? Why not just do it quietly? I think the whole thing has become one big mess that TPTB need to sort out one way or the other.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

I think what Lindsey got through was that she was angry at him because she loved him and realised that the feelings weren't totally mutual (he may care about her, but from what I read in that speech was that it was one sided as far as love was concerned) and that she had to find away to stop loving him. If Danny didn't have enough to feel guilty about now he has someone else's feelings to deal with that he now also feels responsible for.

But also now he has a chance to fix that so he doesn't have to feel guilty for it anymore. He can't bring Ruben back for Rikki, nothing he can do for Rikki is ever going to fill that gaping hole she'll have. That's is a huge thing to feel responsible for and guilty about, but he can fix things with Lindsey, he can stop her feeling unloved... he can take responsibilty for those feelings she told him about and stop that guilt he (in my experience you feel when someone tell you they love you and you had no idea) probably feels.

If she realised that Danny didn't love her and she had to find away to deal with that why did she tell him? Why not just do it quietly? I think the whole thing has become one big mess that TPTB need to sort out one way or the other.

I agree with that completely. Which is why if TPTB makes Danny tell Lindsay he loves her and Lindsay just blindly accepts it and they go off to happy land together it will make absolutely no sense. I can see Danny saying he loves her for the reason you state above, but I can't see him saying it as if he is "over" what happened and I can't see Lindsay just accepting he's "done" grieving and that he really does honestly love her. I mean really, with as pissed as Lindsay was, if she just readily accepts he loves her it'll make her tirade look like it was PMS induced. You can't take something so complex as what happened with Ruben and Carmine Giovinazzo's complex and emotional performance and reduce it to "the bump" and "the deepening" so quickly. I'm hoping for more than that although I'm not expecting it.

 

[Bella363]

Well I voted for Sort of, but I feel she was justified but only because I got the impression that they were in a relationship of some sorts. I am bit miffed that we have been left to our own devices to assume/guess what was happening between them. Judging from her comments and reaction, I think that she was hurt that she could not help him when he needed help the most. And if they were in a relationship, she may have been hurt that he pushed her away. We only saw two issues raised (one being the forgotten birthday) but I cannot believe that Lindsay would react in the way that she did if it was just that. I think she is trying to get through to him rather than being angry with him.

That probably does not make sense but there has been too much ambiguity about their relationship this season IMO which makes it hard to fully understand what has happened.

 

[Rad]

No! No! & once again No!!
Like many of you have pointed out, b'cos she still doesnt know about Danny & Ricky, her anger's just out of context.

I cant understand why the writers, who can come up with some really awesome murder stories, screw up an ordinary relationship so royally. Its almost as if they want Lindsay to come out as a petulant child.

Given the way she kept Danny at a distance when going through her issues, I should think that she'd understand his need for some space. Even if that does hurt her, I cant, for the life of me, understand why she would say something ridiculous like "You know how hard you are to love?"

Apart from his tryst with Rikki, he hasnt done anything to merit such a comment & as she still doesnt know about that, she just comes off as selfish and uncaring.

 

[MissKraft]

In all honesty, I am absolutely confused on where all this "pent up" anger is coming from.

The Lindsay character is coming off to be "possessive", to me. It is also coming off, to me, that this D/L relationship is clearly ( IMHO ) one-sided ( hers ). Though, it seems Linsday had hurtful relationships in the past, and I guess she thought this one was going to be different.

Sure, she slept with him ( assuming only once on screen ), but seems she is looking at this relationship for what it is not. As much as Linsday seems to be in love with Danny, she is assuming he feels/felt the same way. She is also expecting alot in this "relationship", such as being a shoulder to cry on. When Danny shut everyone out, in his grief, Lindsay took this as a personal offense. Ending up giving Danny a good tongue-lashing ( as undeserving as it was ).

This relationship, to me, was just one large miscommunication. Lindsay made it out more than it was, and Danny....well...... I have no idea how he viewed it. I do not recall an episode where a "lab rat", standing behind Lindsay, was waving signal flags.....

*flag signals*"Danny, Lindsay is your pillar of strength in your time of grief."

What really gets me, as some of you here have pointed out, Lindsay pulled the same stunt with Danny awhile back. In the episodes leading up to her going back, to Montana, to testify. She was quite withdrawn herself, though Danny seemed to pick up on this ( or his "interesting" way to fix issues with women ).


Though, all and all, I believe I have a solution to this relationship "problem". Flack needs to follow these two around, and whack'em upside the head when they are not thinking clearly.


-side note- If this relationship arc keeps going the way it is ( including my opinion ), I think an episode will open with Danny gagged/tied to a pole somewhere... I am still leaning on my opinion that she is possessive, and might snap. This would make a story-arc worth watching, IMHO.

 

[Shytownmofo]

No. Lindsay's anger towards Danny was not justified. She was way too harsh on him.

To mine and anyone else's knowledge, He's only forgotten her birthday and refused a lunch invite. He's also been quite withdrawn due to grief over Ruben.

I can see her saying something to him about wanting to reach out to him, but there was nothing. It was just her "Monologue of Doom" in RND and "This is Hard" in LWfM. That's it.

Also, because she did the same thing to him when she was having issues with her memories of her friends getting shot in Season 3, it makes her out to be a hypocrite.

Then, the whole phone convo in Personal Foul made me want to scream, because she's once again punishing him for doing something to her that she'd done to him. What's good for the gander is good for the goose, okay, Lindsay? Deal with it.