Unfriendly Skies

G

Green Goblin

Victim
Hello all CSIers,

I love all the CSI's, but I like the way Grissom acts and over all find these the most interesting, but Horatio, Mac and there teams come a very, very close equal second, they are all very good scripts and its not often at all that I do not enjoy all of these series 100%, all the CSI programs are by far the best I’ve seen since watching Kojak and Columbo as a young kid.

I have some questions/queries about this particular series Unfriendly Skies which I have just seen again and would like to no what you peeps think about what happened and what was said by Grissom and the team.


Series: 'CSI: Crime Scene Investigation'
Episode Title: 'Unfriendly Skies'
Episode Number: 109
Synopsis: "Grissom and his team investigate the death of a first class passenger on a flight to Las Vegas. The investigators are forced not only to examine the physical evidence, but also to interview all of the first class passengers to get their personal accounts of the incident."
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So a mob kill this guy because they were scared that the vic was going to do some thing stupid and kill them all by opening the door at 30,oooft or breaking through the captains cabin door attacking the flight crew eventually crashing the plain on its way to Las Vegas.

Near the end of the series the CSI team are discussing what they would have done in the same position.
Sara and Nick were discussed that the 5 1st class passengers were not going to be charged with any crime because the sheriff of Las Vegas said no jury would convict them even though the evidence pointed to murder/man slaughter, when Warrick (now deceased unfortunately) walks in the room and turns the TV off. Nick and Sara asked warrick what he thought on the situation and Warrick said that he agreed that they should not be charged because if he was in a similar situation he him self might of done the same thing, so scared that this guy might cause the plane to crash that he might of attacked him to save his own life, at this point Warrick asked Sara and Nick what they would have done in the same situation. Sara said it was wrong what happened, they should be charged with murder and go to jail because she could never take a life no matter what the situation she said there was no excuse for what happened (I beg to differ), Nick was sitting on the proverbial fence at this point on whether or not he could have acted in such a way given the same situation. Then Gil Grissom walks in with Catherine and one of the asked her what she might have done in that situation and she immediately said she would have done the same as the passengers to protect her daughter, Sara could not believe what Catherine had just said when another team member asked Grissom what he would have done in that situation, Grissom said he could not answer that question because no one had given a second thought as to what it was like to be the vic in this situation. Grissom said that if just one person stopped to think and asked the vic if he was feeling alright or recognised he was ill and not acting like a jerk, then this might not have happened.

My questions/queries are:
1: It's not up to the passengers to ask a passenger if he is ill or not, that is the responsibility of the flight attendant/s, but the female flight attendant was not one of the five passengers questioned by CSI.

2: After seeing this episode again and if I my self was in this situation I do not think that the vic acted like he was ill, to me he was acting fearful, anxious and a real danger to the safety of the grew and passengers. If someone was acting like that on the same plane as my self, then I seriously think self preservation kicks in to protect your self from the vic's actions.

3: Why did Grissom say that if just one person stopped to think and asked the vic if he was feeling alright or recognised he was ill, then this might not have happened.
Why was it up to the passengers or crew to ask or recognise if the vic was ill? Why didn't the vic tell the flight attendant he was really starting to feel ill and anxious and did not no why? Or why did he not say he could not help himself when the passengers were beating him?

3: Does anyone else have any views on this episode? What would you have done in the same situation?

4: What is your view on what Grissom said about the passengers asking the vic if he was feeling ill or not, then this might not have happened?
Would Grissom have agreed that the actions of the passengers was justified if the vic turned around and instead of saying he was feeling ill, said, no I'm not ill, I'm just an arsehole with a temper, would it have been justified then to have attacked the vic to protect yourself.

I do not condone what the passengers did, mainly because they basically chased him down the isle and carried on there vicious attack after removing his hands from the exit door handle and removing the danger but he could have been running to the back of the plane to see if he could get out or damage the plane at the other end. So with this in mind, I think I do understand why they chased him down and carried on the attack so viciously and understand why they acted like a mob with there adrenalin pumping, they were all afraid of the plane crashing and killing everyone on board.

It’s nice to meet you all and hope you have some views on this.

Peace,
GG
 
Welcome to the Las Vegas forums, Green Goblin! Make yourself at home and have fun here! You might want to visit the Welcome thread to introduce yourself. :) Also, it is helpful to familiarize yourself with the Help thread to get the answers to questions about posting here.

There is also a Q&A thread, but I'm going to leave this post here since it involves a lot of questions and asks for input/discussion of the episode. :)
 
Greetings Green Goblin!

Unfriendly Skies is probably my favorite episode from Season 1 so I'll go ahead and take a stab at you questions.

1. Forgive me if I'm mistaken, I haven't seen this ep in awhile, but I believe that they did question the flight attendant. I think she was a redhead. However, it was determined that she didn't take part in the beating. It was only the mother, the drunk, the husband and the computer guy. Again I might be wrong but I'm trying to remember the reenactment the CSI's did. As such, she wasn't a suspect. Wheither or not she's an accessory to murder or just an innocent bystander, ?...

2. You're right about the vic not acting sick. However, we the viewer have the advantage of seeing the actual events (mostly) inoppose to Grissom who's only theorizing. He's assuming what the vic looked and acted like. Who knows what he would have done had he been on that flight?

3. Again, Grissom is only assuming here. He's trying to make a point that everything could have been avoided. Hindsight is 20/20 however... As for the vic seeking help: since his problem was brain related, he probably wasn't coherent enough to know what was wrong with him.

4. My views: I'd have to go with Nick on this one. I don't know unless I'm there. I understand Catherine and Warrick's viewpoint. Self-preservation and all that... Sara's is good, but to say you wouldn't without having gone through that experience is a little off. You never know what you're capable of. Look at the mother in that episode. She's a doctor who saves lives. She probably never even dreamed of taking one. You just never know.
 
Hey Green Goblin.
I watched this episode on Five last night so thought i would have a go at answering your questions.

1. I thought they did question the flight attendant but when her shoe print didnt match the impression on the vics jacket they stopped quetioning her along with 6 other passengers. It was only when they did the reinactment on the plane that they realised what actually happend. Sara played her and didnt help the mob to murder the man but realised that he was actually killed whilst trying to run away from them and not whilst trying to get the plane door open as they originally thought.
As for her being charged with anything, im not really sure. She didn't actually join in with the mob when they attacked and killed the vic but she didn't do anything to help him either. Admittedly, she must have been just as terrified as the passengers on the plane and was probably to scared to help him incase he killed her.

2. Personally, i don't think the vic was acting as if he was ill. It must of been a terrifing situation to be in. I agree, i think fear / adrenaline kicks in and you would do everything you could to protect your self and the others around you.

3. As for what Grissom said about asking the vic if he was ill, if he was on that plane would he of thought, *This man is ill, someone needs to help him* or *This man is a complete idiot, who doesnt care about anyone on this plane other than himself, if someone doesnt stop him he is going to kill us all* ?? If he had stopped to ask him if he was ok, would the vic of understood what was wrong with him. From how confunssed and agitated he was i don't think he had any idea what was happening to him.

4. Personally, im on the fance with this one. I do think that the passengers went way over the top with their actions but then they thought it was a case of "kill or be killed". I would love to be able to say *No, i would never take another man's life* but in this case i can't. If you think you are going to die at the hands of some mad man on a plane wouldn't you fight for you life. Do everything in you power to make sure you get off that pane alive! Its an impossible question to answer unless you are in that situation.
 
This episode is one of my top 10 episodes ever for CSI. So welcome and I would love to give my input.

1. The flight attendant was questioned by Catherine and she told Catherine that the victim had asked for some aspirin and she gave it to him. When they were trying to recreate the scene, Sara stated that the flight attendant was "vapor locked". To me that meant that she was so shocked by the events happening in front of her that she was paralyzed to do anything about it. She should have in fact taken over the situation but I believe when the passengers saw she couldn't, they stepped in.

2. No the victim did not act like he was ill per se. But his behavior surely indicated that something was definitely wrong. If the flight attendant(and I'm not trying to put all the blame on her)had stated that he had a headache and was perspiring, then the doctor who was on board might have reacted a bit differently to the situation. The doctor at the very least should have known that there are certain illnesses that can make someone appear to be a lunatic.

First #3. The coroner said that the victim because of the illness was 'probably out of his mind' so he might not have been cognizant of what he was doing. If the flight attendant had tried to calm the victim down and asked him what was the matter, then maybe what he would have said could have triggered a different response, especially in the doctor. The fact of the matter is though the passengers didn't try to hold him down while they found out what was wrong. As he was trying to get away from them, the pushed him down and hit and kicked him. The flashback shows that the victim was face down. It would have been very hard for him to even be heard let alone try to explain what was going on with him.

3. I don't know that I would have done anything differently. Sometimes when you see one or two people acting a certain way, the "mob mentality" takes over and no one can think clearly. I would like to think I would be the voice of logic and reason but who knows given the circumstances.

4. I think Grissom was just presenting another viewpoint. One that would have in fact saved the victim's life. While the victim did look like he was posing a threat to the airplane because he was trying to get out, I assume but am not sure that there is protocol to follow if these things arise. Had the flight attendant been fully functioning, she would have radioed the pilot and one of them would have come out. Everyone was answering the question of "what would you do if there was someone threating your life on a plane?". Grissom simply asked "how do you know that the person was actually threating your life?"
 
Hi peeps,
Thanks for the advice Smokey.
PraetorCorvinus & Tootes thank you both very much for your in depth replies. I also like this episode the best, but as I said in my first post, Horatio & Mac's teams do come a very close equal second, there are lots of episodes that I would have to call favourites, but this episode really made me think and that is what I watch all the CSI's for.

I wont reply to your questions one by one because you both gave similar answers.

Sorry I should have mentioned that the flight attendant had been questioned and did not join in with the attack on the vic, but I did not want to waffle for to long. That’s why I only mentioned that the f/a had not been arrested, it was the red head and she stayed at the back of the plane looking petrified, but under USA law if you are in the same room as someone committing a serious crime like this can also be charged the same as the perps without even touching the vic. From what I see of American TV shows charging the flight attendant depends on whether or not the DA can make a case, if the DA thinks he will win then she would have been charged I think that is why I wondered why she was not also arrested a long with everyone else.

To me the vic did not look ill, but more like someone who has a real bad phobia of flying and this could be very dangerous to the passengers at 30,000ft, but then why did he get on the plane in the first place unless he was forced aboard, but he was a lone. Apparently it was the pressure in the cabin that made his brain swell increasing his symptoms ten fold, so no one could have foreseen this unless you were up there with them. Grisom has all the special training that goes with his work as well as being very intelligent, the teams are trained to see what everyone else might not in very volatile situations, whereas the average person in that situation would be very frightened and self preservation will kick in life threatening situations like this. You no, if I’m going to die, I might as well die fighting for my life. I the director should have had the actor do more scenarios so that the question of the man being ill was more transparent, so viewers could ask themselves the question, well he could have been ill, but he was acting so violent and dangerous that they felt they had to go all the way with this awful deed. They all came across to me as decent people and they will have to live with this on there conscience, because I would not like to live with this on my own mind, but again, self preservation?

When I said why didn’t the vic ask for help and tell someone how he was feeling I agree with you PC he probably was not coherent enough but maybe could have tried communicating that his head felt like it was exploding and this could have stopped the attack, but then the script would not have worked out so well if he did, the reason I said it, was because Grisom said if only one of the passengers had noticed he was ill all this might not have happened, but there was only the lady doctor with her young daughter there that had any qualifications to do this and this would have depended on what type of doctor she was. But in the circumstances I can understand why she did not query his actions; after all I think she was more concerned about her daughter’s safety than whether or not he was ill or not.

It was the blind guy who told Grisom what he had herd, they put this info on paper in the form of a play and then they all went to re enact the events that took place.

Again I have to agree with you both and Nick and sit on the fence, I do not know how I or anyone else would react until I was placed in the same situation. When some thing so terrifying is happening who knows how you would act and all the perps would have been in deep shock before the attack started I think. Maybe they will pay a big price themselves by having to live with what happened, some people just cannot live with such things on there conscience and could end up suicidal, paying with there own lives in the end

My personal view of Sara’s summary was totally wrong and spoilt the reality of the episode a little for me. She probably has martial art training and could have inflicted even more damage to the vic without realising what she had done until it was to late, after all if she was on that plane does she think she could have done the right thing where everyone else failed.

Thanks again for your views on this; I really did not know there was a forum for CSIers. Last night after watching Unfriendly Skies I wanted to get answers and so was really looking for the TV show to see if I could leave comments but instead I found all of you which is great.

The part of the post if Grisom had been on that flight was quite insightful of you Tootes, Grisom cannot guarantee how he would have acted on that flight and much more importantly would the vic have understood someone conveying to him that it was not his fault how he was feeling/acting and should calm and that he wants to do is help him. From what I seen there was no way that the vic was going to calm down and listen to reason. What would Grisom have done then I wonder? Joined in with the other passengers to protect his own life maybe


Take care,
GG
P.S. Great screen name PC
 
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Hi Kasey,

Thanks for your very in depth reply. I wish so much that I had this episode on disk so I could go over it again but I don't atm, but I will have them all very soon to complete the whole collection I hope. You must have seen this episode many times because as I read your post it was as if I was watching the episode all over again, if you don't have it on disk then you have an amazing memory my CSI friend. It's an excellent post Kasey thank you.

I hope I have mentioned more of the episode in my 2nd post and would like to invite all CSIers to post there thoughts on this episode.

Take care,
GG
 
Question GG: you said that Sara's summary spoilt it for you. What did she say? At the end when they were talking, she merely stated that she couldn't take a life. I don't think that she was trying to sound better than anyone else. I think we can all agree that we all pretty much truly believe that we could not take a life.
 
Hi Kasey,

My point was, Sara is meant to be a professional CSI team member and she said that under no circumstances could she take another life in that situation and she was quite obstinate on this, but isn’t she always, maybe it’s a character floor. We all think we know ourselves but put in that predicament for real who can say what they are capable of when self preservation kicks in and your life is seriously threatened at 30,000ft. What if Sara had a gun pulled on her and the only way she could survive was to shoot the other person, would she rather die than take another life to protect her own. I would have been a lot happier if she had said, I really don't think I could take another life in that situation. But as you said none of us would like to take another life but if I had my 2 young son's with me aboard that flight then I can honestly tell you now, I would not like to but I would have killed him if I genuinely thought my children’s lives were at stake and I could not find a way to restrain him until landing. But if I was travelling a lone, I cannot say what I would or could do in such an alien environment.

Thanks for your views on this Kasey, I'm enjoying this discussion because doing what the passengers felt they had to goes against any decent persons belief that life is sacred and should be saved at all costs, which is what I believe under normal every day life, but I’m positive that belief does not come into the equation when terrified at 30,000ft.

Take care,
GG
 
See there's the difference right there in the way Sara reacted and the way say Catherine reacted. When you have children, it does change your perspective on things. I've had friends of mine without kids say things that I know they mean well but they don't understand the parent - child dynamic.

In really looking at that scene, both Sara and Warrick were a bit obstinate in their opinion. Warrick just has a smoother delivery and we won't go into the phenomenon of why women are called rather unpleasant names while their male counterparts are just being assertive. Sara was all "I couldn't take a life" and Warrick was sure he could. Nick represented to me what most people would feel - that they were on the fence about it. Catherine pointed out that if you bring in children, then all bets are off. And Grissom was the one to actually give the RIGHT answer in a perfect world...
 
This is a great discussion you all have going here! :)

Green Goblin...FYI, you have 24 hours to edit a post as double posting is not allowed. :) Please let me or Destiny know if you have any questions. Thanks!
 
I'll put my two cents in. I'd probably be like Nick too and be on the fence about it.

All the passengers saw was a man who was being annoying. However, if they did think about it they should've asked why he was being annoying.

I know passengers have freaked out on a plane and it is due to medical or mental issues or alcohol. I think they overreacted. Now having said that, when the guy went to the door to try to open it, that's a whole different thing. However, all they had to do was pull him away from the door and there were enough passengers to do that and the pilot or co-pilot should have been brought out. If he asked for aspirin and he was perspiring, the flight attendant should have asked if he was ok.

No would I have killed him. Not intentionally, but if my life is threatened, I'm going to try to fight. On a plane, I don't know. It would depend on the situation. If it was a passenger that seems to be 'unruly' no, but after 9-11 and someone is threatening the safety of the passengers and could bring the plane down, maybe and probably would. This episode was before then, now it's a whole different story. However, being unruly is not a reason to kill someone, but that's mob mentality for you. Grissom was right, though, if one person had just asked if anything was wrong, there could have been another outcome.
 
Green Goblin said:
P.S. Great screen name PC
Click to expand...

Thanks!:hugegrin:

I like how everyone is mostly agreeing with Nick on this. Like Kasey82800 said, that's the response the majority of people probably would have: we wouldn't know unless it was happening to us.

As far as Sara's comment goes, I feel that expresses how everyone wants to react. No one (sociopaths excluded) wants to take a life. Of course we would all say "not me, never!'. The whole discussion the CSI's had covered all angles and viewpoints and that is why I loved it!

Nick expressed the majority, Sara the idealist, Warrick the truth, Catherine the protectiveness, and Grissom the hindsight.

Mob mentality is always interesting. Look at the Season 3 episode "Blood Lust". That mob reacted in way the we see as wrong, but they didn't know any better. If they stopped to see that the cabbie was calling in the accident and not running, then they wouldn't have attacked and kill him. All reason vanishes with mobs.

"A Person is smart, but People are stupid."
 
Thank you,

To everyone that has contributed to the Unfriendly Skies thread, with so many ways to look at this crime at the end of the day we all agreed that life is sacred and should be saved at all costs.

Peace,
GG
 
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