The evolution of CSI: NY.

Daquien

Daquien

Coroner
I was rewatching the 1º season and wondering how different it was to how it is now. The characters were troubled, there was this dark filter, more dramatic stories...And now there's light, characters are happier, there's more sense of humour...

I think most of the series begin being frivolous and funny and then become more and more dramatic with the time, just the opposite of CSI: NY and I like that, I don't want to be overwhelmed by the hiperdramatic storyline of a series.

What are your thoughts about that?
 
I actually liked the first season the best of all as a whole so far. I liked the dark filter and troubled characters, and the show did show another side of New York city, not just the rich white part of it. And I thought there were lighthearted moments in the first season, maybe not as out there as the second and third seasons, but there still was plenty for me in the first season.

The lightheartedness (IMO at least) is what is making the show less interesting to me at some times...i liked the dark gritty storylines and characters from s1, and im hoping the writers bring some of that back in s4.
 
I don't think it's evolved quite that neatly. I'd argue that it's been up and down for most of them:

Mac--down in s. 1 (wife's death), lighter in season two and beginning of three, then down towards the end (Dobson), then more down again in season four with the 333 caller

Stella--intense but fine in s. 1, light beginning in season two, low point with Frankie, much of s. 3 was a downer for her--recovery from Frankie, AIDS scare, cold case dredged up with her DNA on it. Despite Drew, she seems up in s. 4

Danny--down in latter half of s. 1 due to professional screw ups, up in early s. 2, down at the end of s. 2 when friends and loved ones started to get hurt/die, okay in s. 3 until getting taken hostage, way down in s. 4 with Ruben's death

Lindsay--light beginning of season two, down towards the end, dark secret in season three, lighter again in season four

I think it's like life--ups and downs. There have definitely been changes since s. 1, but I don't think lightening up the show has been anything aside from visual overall. Danny's guilt over Ruben's death is arguably one of the darkest places the show has ever gone.
 
Overall, I think the show has suffered because TPTB should have done better job of integrating the light appearance with the gritty, realistic story lines. After all, there was humor to go with the serious, more realistic drama in S1.

Also, I think there is the perception of happier, more light hearted characters because of the visual lightness. For example, Danny's drama hasn't lessened any since S1. He hasn't had the conflict with Mac, but he's had more than his share of drama and unhappiness with Louie, Ruben, etc. Hawkes' drama increased from S1 because we got to see him outside of the morgue. Lindsay wasn't around in S1 and I wouldn't describe her as "happy" given what happened in S3. Mac learned to move on after losing Claire, but he's since been accused of murdering a suspect and dealt with a stalker. Stella had to shoot her boyfriend who went nuts and attacked her and then had to go through the realization that another man who showed interest in her was just using her to get to Mac. Flack got all blowed up in the S2 finale. The characters do have light moments and do joke around, but I wouldn't describe them as any happier than they were in S1. The only thing that's changed other than the visual appearance of the show is the switch from realistic, gritty crimes from a diverse population to a focus on rich, pretty, vapid people who, for the most part, don't evoke any sympathy/empathy from viewers.
 
I completely agree with you Hormiga and this is an excellent point. I loved season one and it was very stylish in the way that it was done. Completely different from its two older siblings. I think it very much portrayed the feeling of New York through its story lines and the 'noir' style in which it was shot.

I really do love the humorous scenes they have in it now, but they had them back then too and it worked well. It apparently 'had' to change because it was proving to be less popular than Vegas and Miami but I occasionally worry that it'll go completely the opposite way and loose it's dramatic, dark edge and become somewhat... dammit, where's my thesaurus when I need it??... Mainstream.

I said in a previous post that my biggest fear is that we start getting TOO much character information and loose some of the work that goes into cases. Again, I LOVE hearing about the characters lives outside work, but for some reason I always got more out of waiting for the subtle hints being made in the early days and making my own assumptions as opposed to the full on 'ram it down your throat' (minds out of the gutter ladies) the show has touched on a couple of times in the last two seasons.

I have no idea why, but I don't want to see Danny and Lindsey going at it on the pool table, Mac and Peyton looking pained sitting through the opera (or was that the only facial expression she could muster? Sorry, sorry.... nasty Haggis!), Stella being very obviously stalked/courted by Drew Kerr for some sinister plot reason... and on and on it goes. What was wrong with Danny shouting "Remember hoops on Friday Flack" as a nod to the friendship the pair shared outside work? Actually, that was a terrible example because I wouldn't change one single scene between those guys but you know what I mean.

I think the show had to get its footing and a good hold on the viewing public so that it could try new stuff. That's great and it's what we come to expect from the CSI franchise, but let's hope it retains some of the original qualities that made it such a winning show.
 
hairy0haggis said:

I said in a previous post that my biggest fear is that we start getting TOO much character information and loose some of the work that goes into cases. Again, I LOVE hearing about the characters lives outside work, but for some reason I always got more out of waiting for the subtle hints being made in the early days and making my own assumptions as opposed to the full on 'ram it down your throat' (minds out of the gutter ladies) the show has touched on a couple of times in the last two seasons.

I have no idea why, but I don't want to see Danny and Lindsey going at it on the pool table, Mac and Peyton looking pained sitting through the opera (or was that the only facial expression she could muster? Sorry, sorry.... nasty Haggis!), Stella being very obviously stalked/courted by Drew Kerr for some sinister plot reason... and on and on it goes. What was wrong with Danny shouting "Remember hoops on Friday Flack" as a nod to the friendship the pair shared outside work? Actually, that was a terrible example because I wouldn't change one single scene between those guys but you know what I mean.
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I agree that they've lost their subtlety, and that the Danny/Flack interactions are usually gold no matter what. The lack of subtlety, for me, goes beyond the sometimes forced character interaction. TPTB seem to have taken to shoving morals down viewers' throats at times too. I like it much better when there's a hint of ethics/morals commentary, but the viewer is mostly left to make up their minds about how they feel. I can't think of a specific example at the moment, but there have been times after S1 where I've felt preached to or bashed over the head with explanations of motives/morals/ethics, etc.
 
I am so with you Haggis and PerfectAnomaly there is something to be said about not knowing everything about the characters. Do I want to know to everything? Absolutely but I know the second I get my wish…I am out…done with the show. I have said this before the second ER became about the characters life and less about the ER and medicine I was…out. As much as I love DL and OMG I love DL. I like that the show keeps you guessing whether are they together or not. (Yes I am one of the hopeful fans who think they are together) The pool scene was there to say hey it happen after that you do not need a constant reminder that they are together. MAC and Peyton-that was a great way to start a season. When her arm comes over Mac’s shoulder, tell me your jaw did not drop? Followed by you "asking who the hell is that?" Was there too much PDA (Mac and Peyton)? Maybe but you also look at as away of making the almighty Mac more human or relatable. At the end of the day it is a show and has to appeal to an audience. Some PDA is necessary but again there is no need to go crazy and do an entire show about DL (That would make me sick). I am happy with little moments. Big moments are good for season finales or first season episodes.

Season 1 I have mixed emotions about it. I love film Noir (check payback great movie) but my city does not look like that. I can get over that but the location of the lab is another thing. Sometimes when I watch S 1 the fact that they are in a "cave/underground bunker" distracts me. If you look at all three shows have their own look. LV CSI is usually shot at night and the lab is dark. MIA CSI is a rainbow of pastel colors and their lab is slight brighter than LV’s. NYC started in the film Noir but now the color is not as bright as MIA and there is more angles on NYC (if that makes scenes). The buildings are always…well…structured, pointy/angles. The angles make things seem harder/rougher. Obviously the TPTB want the 3 shows to the same but different. So one way make them different is to change the way the show is filmed or add more “angles” Season 2 –4, I love. I am just into the show. Are there shows that I re-watch less than other yes but I need those shows to see how the characters’ relationship/interaction change over time and with cases.

The Characters do cycle from happy to sad to happy but that is life. Side note though if I were Stella I would run a background check on guy I date in the future. Back to the characters…Each one has a flaw that I hate or can’t wait to see. Watching how they deal with life is interesting to me. As some have noted the Flack/Dan interactions are great. But if you think about the Flack and whoever interactions are great. Him and suspect (as they say on the news in the US now person of interest), him and Stella, etc…. The emotions you get from Eddie playing Flack are genuine. It makes the show for me…that and trying to figure out who did it in the first 30 minutes of the show. As a show it has grown and change but the fundamental core of the show is there. Is it there all the time? No. It way stray at times but always seems to come back to the core. Its in the victim’s story, in their drive for justice in the crime, and in the little moments.
 
I loved the dark noirish feel of s1, and the troubled characters. I loved the way they used the city too as part of the show - particularly that final scene in Blink when Mac goes to Ground Zero, that was just such a uniquely dark 'NY' moment. I believe they actually filmed that at Ground Zero, AZ says so in the ep commentary if I'm not mistaken. But I did like the lighter feel of s2 as well, and I liked how they kept up the character angst/drama with Mac, Stella and Danny's various storylines. I complain about Lindsay, but I did like the lightness she brought to the lab in s2 - I like her in that season. In season 3 I liked how they developed Mac's character showing both his softer side (Reed and Peyton) and his flaws, and the Flack/Mac conflict was great too. One thing I hated about s3 though was that almost all the cases involved rich white people or at least middle-class white people getting killed. Where did the diversity of s1 go? This is NEW YORK for Chrissakes, not Midsomer wherever! As for s4, some interesting character development, but probably my least favorite season as it's only half as long and also the people getting killed are nearly all white.
I like the angle-shots too, and the shots of the skyline. I'd love it so much if they brought back the dark feel of s1, not in every ep, just in some eps. I suppose Child's Play was a good 'dark' storyline for Danny. Oh, about Danny, I love that he's grown up since s1. I found him a bit of a whiny brat at times in s1, but now I like him much more. He's still whiny, but not as much in s1. I think that makes the show realistic- he's grown up, his personality's evolved, and that's what happens in RL.
If I had to say how I wanted NY to evolve, I'd say

1. More character development for Hawkes, Flack and Adam as well as Mac and Stella and Danny.

2. Some lovely dark, noirish eps. NY in a storm would be amazing.

3. For some cases to involve working class and/or non-white people as victims/suspects/witnesses.
 
I loved the first and second seasons. I liked the diversity in there was, i have to agree, season 3 and 4 started to urk me, i'm sick of rich white people getting killed, New York is one of Forbes most miserable cities!!!!!!!!!!

I loved the darkness of s1. not the blue tint, i was glad when that left but still, some of the stories were just amazing, like the outside man, and hush. I like the stories that keep me guessing until the end. Can they mix the stories of s1 and the character development of s2 and s3 and make up for the first half of s4? (fingers crossed the strike ends tomorrow)
 
NY has been a good series since the begining. all the things you guys have mentioned are really good points. everyone besides Lindsay obviously has had the same amount of drama since day one.

i recently went back and watched s1. i noticed that Danny has changed a lot. maybe it's me but he seems a lot more laid back and like a totally different person. he had more of that tough guy thing going on than he does now. i also noticed that he was a lot more of a wisecracker with Aiden. it seems like she brought out both that tough guy and wisecracker part of him.

to me it feels like without Aiden the show is missing some of that NY atitude. they could not have gotten more NY than casting Vanessa Ferlito as Aiden she was a perfect. i miss her atitude a lot. i always wonder what the show and Danny would be like had Vanessa stayed.

i do agree with you MacsLady on the diversity issue. that's what really drew me into this show after watching the first couple of eps. the crimes and stories were so different and diverse and now it's just all the same thing.

i think character, story, look, and feel wise the show has changed a lot. look at Las Vegas: that changed a lot looking back on the earlier seasons, the characters and (especially) the actors were fresh and excited. now everyone seems like they have the weight of the world on their shoulders from so much drama. NY has not had this happen to them yet though and hopefully it won't happen. i noticed in Las Vegas by the 5th season the cast and characters and stories got a bit sluggish.... NY seems more energetic and ready to go as it 4 years ago.

(if this does not make any sense i apologize)

maybe NY starting off darker than CSI and then going a bit lighter helped it out. i did like the grittiness and roughness of season 1 but i have been enjoying the changes from season 2.
 
Story wise season 1 still has for me atleast the grittier stories that stuck in my mind long after I watched it. Nowadays the stories seem far fetched and something out of the realms of fantasy, involving wealthy hoity toity folks I can't identify with or even empathise with. I would like to see more stories of ordinary people like in season 1, episodes like Outside Man, Supply and Demand, Tanglewood.
 
MakeTracksCowboy, I miss Aiden too. Her lips annoyed me, but the character did make the show feel much more 'New York' . I also agree that New York still has a very nice energetic feel to it. I hadn't noticed the lack of that in Vegas, but NY does feel more energetic than Vegas to me. And, god, I miss those gritty storylines too. They were really depressing sometimes, but they stuck in your mind. And the people who committed or were victims of crimes in s1 were, as you point out, althea, mostly ordinary people, there were some rich people,but not nearly as many as in s3. I really miss that diversity of s1, and the grittiness too. I hope they bring that back later on, the actors all do 'gritty' so well, especially Mac, Danny and Stella. And we KNOW from s1 that the writers can 'write' gritty extremely well too.
 
MacsLady said:
They were really depressing sometimes, but they stuck in your mind.
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I agree the stories right in the beginning were depressing but there was a strong element of realism to it and that's what roped me in. You got so caught up watching it you forget that its just a show and its not real.
 
althea said:
MacsLady said:
They were really depressing sometimes, but they stuck in your mind.
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I agree the stories right in the beginning were depressing but there was a strong element of realism to it and that's what roped me in. You got so caught up watching it you forget that its just a show and its not real.
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The very first episode 'Blink' still haunts me. It made me sick to my stomach. When was the last time we had something like that on the show.
Do you think it's possible that because AZ said the show was like the 'new coke cola' of the CSI franchise that they decided to start playing it safe?
I enjoyed watching a show that could very possibly be real. I can't stand it when they do all this 'Second Life' crap because it's SO unlike anything you'd expect from CSI NYC.
It seems the more original the programme is these days, the more it's moulded into something more mainstream and that just gets my goat! :mad:
 
I have to say, while I do agree the show was at its best and grittiest its first season, I do think the Ruben storyline was pretty dark and daring. Having Danny essentially be responsible, at least in part, for the death of a child, is pretty grim.

But yeah, there's a lot of fluff and attempts to be hip that the show does that take away from the grit that was so great in season one.
 
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