Season 12 Spoiler Lab Discussion Part 2

[ladyhunter]

You have got to be kidding. :brickwall:

This storyline is just ridiculous. What a way to make Catherine look .... (sleazy)

First there was no resolution between her and Vartann. Unless we see it in the next few episodes.
Second WHY IN THE WORLD would she sleep with someone else? Come on! That makes her look so .... trashy. Not the way she wants to go out I'm sure.

What happened to the idea of her leaving CSI to focus on family and what's missing in her life? This is not the way to do it.

The only thing that is keeping me interested is her old friend. And the potential to work for the FBI. But why does she have to sleep with the guy? And I can't imagine Marg approving this storyline....

But the rest.... rubbish indeed. Of all the ways to send Catherine out this is just udder...nonsense. I've got no words....

UGH!

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

I don't think just because a grown woman sleeps with someone it makes them trashy or slutty or anything else of the sort. And the use of the word "servicing" is just . . . :wtf:. Last time I checked Catherine wasn't a hooker.

Unless I'm completely missing something I don't think she and Vartann were shown to be exclusive and didn't they actually have some issues that could lead people to believe they weren't seeing each other any longer? I'm honestly asking because it's highly possible I did miss something.

It just really bothers me that a woman has to be labeled because she has sex. It's not like she's bed hopping with every guy she meets.

 

[ladyhunter]

I agree with you GreatPumpkin. A woman shouldn't be judged on her sexuality.
And Catherine has always been very comfortable with hers. She has great confidence and she exudes that. That's not the issue I'm having.

The issue I'm having is that the way it's looking, is that .....she HAS to sleep with the guy to work with for the FBI? We all know that is not the way women should get jobs.
Why can't they work together and he be impressed with her skills instead of them sleeping together. TO ME, that makes her look trashy. Again my opinion. Catherine worked hard to get where she is on her skills, not on how many men she's been with to get where she is. Why start it now?

On the Catherine/Lou front. The writers did give her an 'out' last season. He asked her to move in together and she said NO. Then he got jealous of a guy she hugged and they had 'words' that left it up in the air so to speak. Then the Bieber storyline had him in the hospital and she said she wouldn't be anywhere else but beside him. And then she and he had more 'words' about a case where he had a relationship with the suspect. But at the end of that, she said, "I wish I knew that many men I could count on." He said, "You only need one." We haven't seen anything else of him or anything to say one way or the other about their relationship. The rest of the season was focused on the Ray/Haskell thing.

You know, this all could be literal. You know a literal 'roll in the hay' as they escape.... Just a thought.....

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

It sounds like the dude is impressed with her professionally and she the same with him before it turns sexual. I guess I don't see anything wrong with that and think it makes sense that being impressed with each other professionally could enhance any physical attraction they have to each other.

If Catherine had a history of sleeping with everyone she works with then I could see how it would look trashy to add another notch to the bedpost, but that's not the case. I guess that's why it bugs me that people seem to be assuming Catherine is going to look slutty/trashy/whatevery.

As for Lou/Catherine, that's what I remembered happening between them. I guess one could assume that they were exclusive because he asked her to move in with him, but one could also assume they weren't exclusive because she said no. It seems to me that maybe they aren't/weren't on the same page as to what kind of relationship they have/had.

That's another problem with the franchise as a whole. Danny and Lindsay were never shown to be exclusive, but many fans assumed they were. It turned out they weren't even in the same book, let alone on the same page about their relationship. When Danny slept with Rikki fanon collided with canon and it wasn't a good situation for the fandom at all.

 

[hiphugger17]

The CSI franchise loves its ambiguousness They definitely left the Cath/Vartann relationship without any closure giving them the option to take whatever route they felt like taking. For me, this is the crappy route, but I digress. They do this all over the franchise, make relationships on and off and only committing after there's a baby (DL I'm looking at you) or both characters leaving (GSR). It's like they don't have the guts to write something, commit to it, and stick to it to matter what. That's what happened with Vartann and Cath and why we don't know exactly where they stand as a couple right now. They can just as easily drop the whole storyline and we never know exactly what happened to their relationship; the writers are good at that too .

 

[jafox]

The issue I'm having is that the way it's looking, is that .....she HAS to sleep with the guy to work with for the FBI?

I didn't read that into the spoiler at all.

I have no idea what happened with Cath and Lou, and TBH, I never got invested enough in that storyline to care. This is about Catherine, and her exit, like Grissom's final arc was about him and his evolution as a character. Yes, Sara was involved (thankfully!) at the end, but it was really all about Grissom's acceptance of a different side of himself.

Now Catherine has her chance to evolve. I don't think she is 'slutty'. If it were a guy, no one would question her motives. Her sexuality is part of her character (which is different from Grissom or Sara, who were more of the socially awkward, nerdy type), and it's not something she has to use to get what she wants. She has become more than that (since shedding her stripper days). Which is why I think her exit arc will most likely not involve a specific man, but hopefully will more involve her daughter (who, by her own admission, she has neglected as she has worked her way up in a man's world). That is the side of Catherine I would like to see when she leaves CSI.

 

[ladyhunter]

Again, yes, if this were a guy, we'd think nothing of it. Or at least not as much. I agree there. I also agree that women shouldn't be judged on their sexuality or sexual relationships.

But I don't see how her having a 'steamy fling' as the spoiler suggests helps her evolve? Or help her with her daughter?

Catherine/Lou aside, Yes, Catherine has always been in charge of her sexuality and how she uses it. She's fun and flirty. But that's not all she is. She's competent and human. Like she admitted to D.B about the situation with Ray.

I hated how they made her undo her shirt in season 7 to get answers from a suspect. Why? To me that made her look unprofessional. Yeah, sleeping with an FBI agent off the clock isn't unprofessional as such, but it seems like that's all she is... a means to an end. Catherine to me, is better than that. That's why I'm upset with this storyline.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

I don't think showing her sexual side precludes everything else about her personality. If she wasn't "in charge of her sexuality and how she uses it" then I could see how that could happen, but since she is I don't see how her sleeping with someone, or using her sexuality to get something from a suspect, makes her any less competent or professional or anything else. Being "in charge of her sexuality and how she uses it" to me makes her that much stronger of a woman.

I also don't think one spoiler about her sleeping with someone means that's all we're going to see in regards to Catherine's exit. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I just don't see TPTB reducing her exit to being about who she sleeps with.

 

[ladyhunter]

Yes, the way they have built up her character is in fact just that way. Strong, confident and in charge of her sexuality.
Yes, that is true.

Perhaps I'm looking at this all wrong. But to me, again to me, it seems like TPTB are contradicting their own spoilers on how she leaves. Fulfilling what was missing in her life, ie, family and her daughter.

Again, it just could be me and the way I see Catherine that's bugging me.

On the bright side, I do like the idea of her leaving CSI and working for the FBI.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Yes, the way they have built up her character is in fact just that way. Strong, confident and in charge of her sexuality.
Yes, that is true.

Perhaps I'm looking at this all wrong. But to me, again to me, it seems like TPTB are contradicting their own spoilers on how she leaves. Fulfilling what was missing in her life, ie, family and her daughter.

Again, it just could be me and the way I see Catherine that's bugging me.

On the bright side, I do like the idea of her leaving CSI and working for the FBI.

There's nothing in the spoilers to indicate she's leaving CSI to work for the FBI. The spoilers indicate the FBI is going to be working on a case with the CSIs. Her leaving could still very well be about her family and fulfilling what was missing in her life.

I'm not trying to say anyone is looking at anything "wrong." I'm just disagreeing and saying why. :shrug:

 

[Smokey]

Remember, all spoilers are subject to change and may not be correct anyway. I'm the one who said perhaps she would leave to work for the FBI.

The fact that Marg seems to be enjoying the show having Ted Danson on board and the fact that they are, as always, hoping she'll stay could always change things as well.

But this plot line...I think they could do better. It seems sort of "fanfic-y" but at the same time not, because most fanfic writers seems to have more of a sense of how the characters would behave...at least the way we know them. And die hard fans know them pretty well, I think.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

But this plot line...I think they could do better. It seems sort of "fanfic-y" but at the same time not, because most fanfic writers seems to have more of a sense of how the characters would behave...at least the way we know them. And die hard fans know them pretty well, I think.

So you're saying anyone who thinks this spoiler isn't necessarily bad for the character isn't a "diehard fan" and doesn't know what they're talking about? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. You have to remember people interpret things and characters differently and that's not "wrong."

 

[Smokey]

But this plot line...I think they could do better. It seems sort of "fanfic-y" but at the same time not, because most fanfic writers seems to have more of a sense of how the characters would behave...at least the way we know them. And die hard fans know them pretty well, I think.

So you're saying anyone who thinks this spoiler isn't necessarily bad for the character isn't a "diehard fan" and doesn't know what they're talking about? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. You have to remember people interpret things and characters differently and that's not "wrong."

Wow. Um. No. Not at all.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

But this plot line...I think they could do better. It seems sort of "fanfic-y" but at the same time not, because most fanfic writers seems to have more of a sense of how the characters would behave...at least the way we know them. And die hard fans know them pretty well, I think.

So you're saying anyone who thinks this spoiler isn't necessarily bad for the character isn't a "diehard fan" and doesn't know what they're talking about? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying. You have to remember people interpret things and characters differently and that's not "wrong."

Wow. Um. No. Not at all.

Sorry. That's why I was asking and not accusing.

 

[ladyhunter]

After thinking about this storyline for a bit...

The problem I'm having is that why does EVERYTHING that has to do with Catherine have to do with SEX?

Strong, competent and sexy DOES NOT EQUAL sex! So why does she have to sleep with this guy? To me, again my opinion, that degrades her. Makes her seem like all she is is sex. Catherine is better than that.

Yes, this arc is about her and what's missing in her life. I don't see how sleeping with an FBI agent is going to do that.

Again, that's me.