Romance on CSI:NY--A Bad Idea?

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I came across this bit from TV Guide elsewhere and thought it would be good for discussion here:

Matt Roush from TV Guide on D/L

Question: I am writing to express my complete revulsion over last week's episode of CSI: NY, "Right Next Door." I am shocked and appalled by the complete character assassination of Danny Messer and the disrespectful treatment of the Danny/Lindsay relationship. I have been a loyal fan for more than two years, and I am horrified by these events. I'm amazed by the writers' ability to completely eviscerate a character and a relationship that has been in development for over two years. The soap opera angle that this Danny/Rikki storyline has taken turns me off. It has cheapened any worthwhile storyline that the episode "Child's Play" provided and has completely ruined the character of Danny Messer. I used to have faith in the writers' ability at creating and developing the characters. It was the best thing about CSI: NY and what truly set it apart from the others in the franchise. I didn't watch for the mediocre crimes, but for the character development and the personal relationships on the show. However, last week's episode completely negates years of wonderful writing. I do think that Anna Belknap gave an absolutely flawless and heartbreaking performance, so I'm truly disappointed that I can no longer support this show and will be unable to see her perform each week. — Christina, California

Matt Roush: I'm glad you didn't ask me to comment, because I've got nothing here. CSI: NY has rarely done much for me, but when I see a reaction this visceral, it reminds me of the dangers any procedural crime drama faces when it comes to developing romances among the core characters. It's a treacherous tightrope. The producers want to provide emotional hooks to keep the viewers engaged beyond the routine whodunit (and any time I sample CSI: NY, it feels awfully routine), but then the writers discover there's no way to please everyone depending on where they take these relationships. The result: angry backlash.
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We've got Shipper Central and numerous other threads to debate the merits or demerits of particular ships--I'm more interested in discussing what Matt Roush has said about relationships on procedurals. Do you agree or disagree with his assessment?
 
I think he hit the nail on the head, and it's interesting to see comments from someone who doesn't watch the show and isn't commenting on this one relationship (or any relationship) in particular.

Personally, I wish they'd develop more non-romantic relationships to provide the "emotional hooks" he's talking about. Friends and families can be engaging too.
 
I voted No.

I certainly understand where he is coming from on the negative aspects of having relationships on shows between characters. However, if its done right, relationships on shows, ecspecially on CSI, would be fine. Obviously, no one will be totally happy with the results, but that doesn't mean that it will always result in the viscious backlash that prompted this TV guide submission. Look at Grissom/Sara on CSI (when she was on the show). I know alot of people who didn't like that pairing, but didn't throw a fit when they did hook up.

With CSINY in particular, I think relationships between characters would be perfectally fine, if they were developed. Think of the Danny and Lindsay issue--if it was clearly defined whether or not they were in a relationship, and I mean real solid canon evidence and not just speculation, and more development to it, i know I wouldn't have as big of a problem with it. I wouldn't like it, no, but at least I could see some development with it and evidence of it.

Anyway. Sorry if I got too far off topic. On the whole....relationships=fine if they are developed and true to the characters.
 
I'm sure there was some backlash when, say, Lady Heather came back on the show after Grissom and Sara got together (not saying anything happened between Grissom and Lady Heather, but I know some people weren't happy about her coming back at all)--it's never going to be everybody, of course, and what you're going to see in TV guide and such is going to be a small group that is very outspoken, but I'm sure there's still backlash. The average viewer probably doesn't tune in or out because of the relationships and where they go, but I think, overall, romantic entanglements are going to stir at least a small portion of the viewers.

If I make any sense right now. :lol:

ETA: It's weird--when I click to see the results of the poll and back to the thread, it takes me to a thread from 2005 in the CSI forum. :wtf: [/off-topic]
 
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^It did exactly the same thing for me. It was veeeery peculiar.

Back on topic. I think this is exactly the problem that many people have with the romance on the show. In a couple of cases, it's written well, and that is the function of good writing. However, when you have a romantic entanglement that is drawn out over multiple seasons and handled by different writers, it gets inconsistent treatment. This is why they should just err on the side of caution and leave it off the procedurals entirely.
 
I agree with some posters here on this thread. It depends on how these relationships are developed, evolve, and the space they take up on the show. It also depends on the couples themselves. Is it a good match? How's the on-screen chemistry? Is it believable? And so on...

I always kind of liked the Danny/Lindsay pairing. I saw the relationship as a contrast, the country girl from Montana meets and falls in love with the young, streetwise man from the Big Apple. The relationship didn't take over the show's concept.

I have often praised the way that CSI-LV handled the Grissom/Sara relationship. You saw bits and pieces here and their but you knew enough to know the two were engaged in relationship.
Right now we've got a similar situation on CSI-Miami. A block of the fan base is absolutely drooling at the prospect of a pairing of the characters Calleigh and Delko. Another portion of the fan base, myself included, see it as a pairing that lacks certain chemistry and would be a "jump-the-shark" moment for the show.
Roush brought up a very valid point. The writers can't please everyone. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
 
Fay, I'm getting the same problem too. :lol:

I voted the third option. I agree with Mr. Roush in that the CSI shows are first and foremost procedural crime drama shows. When a are-they-or-aren't-they plot overwhelms everything, ya just know something ain't right somewhere.

The producers want to provide emotional hooks to keep the viewers engaged beyond the routine whodunit (and any time I sample CSI: NY, it feels awfully routine), but then the writers discover there's no way to please everyone depending on where they take these relationships. The result: angry backlash.
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I agree with the above too. However, about developing relationships on the show, a lot of it has to do with how much of it viewers are presented and most of all, how good and believable the chemistry and interaction are between the characters. So if it has all the ingredients necessary, it's a-okay. But when it becomes contrived and predictable and nothing more than one character using another as a prop ... yeah, it's bad, like badfic soap opera bad. :lol:
 
Faylinn said:
Personally, I wish they'd develop more non-romantic relationships to provide the "emotional hooks" he's talking about. Friends and families can be engaging too.
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Ditto.


I don't think romances on CSI type shows are a good idea, but I also don't think the majority of fans care enough about it to make a significant impact on the show. I don't think the majority of the fans who are vocal about what they don't like will stop watching either. It'll be interesting to watch the ratings for the rest of the season.
 
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I voted the third option. I agree with Mr. Roush in that the CSI shows are first and foremost procedural crime drama shows. When a are-they-or-aren't-they plot overwhelms everything, ya just know something ain't right somewhere.
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You took the words right out of my mouth.
If there are any canon pairings on a procedural show they shouldn't be the main focus. If I want to watch romance and people pairing off then there's plenty of soaps around.
 
It's a treacherous tightrope. The producers want to provide emotional hooks to keep the viewers engaged beyond the routine whodunit (and any time I sample CSI: NY, it feels awfully routine), but then the writers discover there's no way to please everyone depending on where they take these relationships. The result: angry backlash.
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Yep, I definitely agree. Romantic relationships divide opinion, and there is no way to please everyone. As Fay suggests there are other avenues that could be explored to provide emotional hooks without resorting to the 'office romance'. Although I'm not sure that it's romance itself that is the problem, rather it is lead character romance. Although a focus on the cases would be great, to have no relationships at all four years into a show would be ridiculous and I'm not sure myself that people would still be watching if the show had taken that route, because people naturally want more than them examining a crime scene every week. That's why, in my opinion, there is a need for romance or relationships, but if they want to avoid this kind backlash then pairing people up with occasional recurring characters or assumed relationships would be preferable.

That said, the writers know what they are doing, and I think that they are doing it well. They've got our attention, and we're all talking about the show. :lol:

Will the ratings go down? I personally think not. I'm sure the majority of people whose initial response was 'revulsion' and anger, will have calmed down a little by now and are actually really interested to see what will happen between their favourite pairing throughout the remainder of the season.
 
Relationships are a part of real life, whether romantic or not and most certainly whether positive or negative. I think it would be unrealistic to remove romance from shows entirely, but D/L just serves to show how this sort of thing should not be done, especially when the are-they-aren't they? is dominating the storyline.

Creating romance in a show definitely creates an area that needs to be paid attention to consistantly while not becoming too much of an overiding factor when it comes to screen time. If the beast cannot be fed and watered properly, it is probably best left alone.

Who hooks up is always going to be a matter of consternation amongst fans and fandom - but then, fandom makes up an especially small amount of the viewership as a whole, especially for proceedural drama like CSI:NY.
 
I think it would be unrealistic if EVERY character on a show found their soulmate within such a small lab - plus, as shown in LV, there are implications when one of them is higher up in the "chain of command". I'm with Fay, I'd like to see more non-romantic relationships played up - for example, more banter between Danny and Flack. Also it seems Sid and Mac are close, given the scene in season 3 (I forget which episode) when Sid invited Mac over for Thanksgiving. I'd like to see some more of that.
 
I think relationships on the show are fine as long as the pairing is believable, has chemistry and doesn't take anything away from the fact that these shows are first and foremost crime dramas.
I agree with others though that relationships between Danny and Flack, Warrick and Nick and other friendships are just as entertaining and heartfelt and I would much prefer to see more of that than a dreary unbelievable love story.
 
I'm sat in the middle, where I agree that it divides the viewers when romance is involved but i also kind of like it in the fact it adds to it just being all crime nothing happening behind the scenes so to say. With the Grissom/Sara stuff i liked it thought i thought it was to hidden for me, its well done for there characters but it wouldnt work on one of the others.

Friendships is what i thinks always made the NY team stronger than the others in that they always have each others backs and we see more of a relaxed side to it than the other 2. I always liked and still like the Danny and Lindsay bantering cos i felt it was a moment where you though could it be more but you also thought they work with each other so much its more of a friendship. I liove seeing Danny/Flack and Flack and Hawkes banter it makes it more watchable i also fin it splits up the cases aswell which is nice to see sometimes specially if its a full on case.
 
its not a question of whether it should be done but of how it is done.

the DL thing after S3 is a clear example of how NOT to do it

I think that when done right it can help the show a lot, showing the characters beyond their jobs. makes them seem more human, more real.

but I agree it can destroy a show or a character too. (right now all 3 shows are on that list for one reason or the other)
 
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