New World Order: Conspiracy Theory ( & A Whole Lot More)

:lol: Actually one of the reasons we left was because of the racism my mom experienced after 9/11 (my mom wears the hijab - the Islamic head cover). So I've gotten enough of the racism to last a lifetime (I don't want to generalize, the majority of the people we encountered in subways and stuff were very polite and treated my mom like any other American) There were a few bad seeds that would call her a "terrorist" because of her head cover. But anyway, here I am in Lebanon, still suffering from Bush's terrorism :lol: he's stalking me I tell you!
 
^^^ Hmmm. That's not good. Have you chosen to wear the hijab? I had a lot of Muslim friends in Australia and they were of both styles.

I also roomed with an older woman (well, older than me) from Lebanon who was a Christian. She had a lot of interesting stories about Beirut in the 80's, and about her dislike of Syria. It was all very enlightening.

Here's a question I have? Why must insult always be answered with violence from a large portion of Islam? The Pope says something stupid and there's threat of violence. I don't get it. I mean, you piss off a Catholic,for example, you'd get insulted and booed, but chances are they aren't going to resort to attacks. (Unless they're drunk and Irish, but that's another story! :lol: ) Seriously, I'm very sympathetic to the Muslims in the Middle East, but it just seems like they take one step forward and then two steps back. WTF? :confused:
 
As I´m German like the pope, too, I want to emphatize it was a misunderstanding.
And the pope´s regret is accepted by many Islam leaders.
 
^Y'know Baba I wondered the same. I have to say that what Pope said was stupid. Like Christianity/Christians/Catholics haven't killed people in the name of the God and religion :rolleyes:

It just seems some people just look for an excuse to start violence.

One thing what wonders me too. We have different christian religions. Like me, I'm Lutheran. When a Catholic Pope says something stupid about islam (like the latest comment), those aggressive muslims start to attack on any christian. Is that right? Shouldn't they attack just Catholics? I mean, as a Lutheran Pope has nothing to do with my religion, we just happen to have same God and similar habits :p

Then we still feel wrong, if someone says "all muslims are terrorists"

Do you get my point?

Another what I've wondered. Here 84% are Lutherans (Orthodox is another state church). Muslims are growing minority. In our traditions, like schools and stuff there's lots and lots from christianity/Lutheran church. So if school happens to have one muslim, some schools needed to quit all traditions that are originally christian.
They (muslims) should have a chance not to be part of it, if they feel it's against their religion. Or any other's religion. This is what I don't get.
We have this one christian group, that does not allow e.g. television. So our Religion teacher always said before watching a video "if someone feels that cannot watch the video, you can wait outside".

Ah well. This was religious rant.
 
DaWacko said:
^Y'know Baba I wondered the same. I have to say that what Pope said was stupid. Like Christianity/Christians/Catholics haven't killed people in the name of the God and religion :rolleyes:
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Yeah, no DOUBT! Don't get me started on the background violence of Christianity! :p There's a good reason why I'm an agnostic verging on atheist. ;)
 
My mother is a teacher. However she´s really tolerant with Muslim pupils.
At Hoe Economics they just don´t eat all meat.
And they don´t join swimming-lessons, because they´re not allowed to wear bathing-suits.

So what?? ;)
 
See that is a really negative aspect about religions, when one idiot does something and the whole religion is blamed. Bush kills people and claims to be a good Christian. Bin Laden kills people and claims to be a good Muslim. The israelis kill people and claim to be good Jews. See its everywhere, but it isn't these bad seeds that give a religion its negative image, it's the people that decide to judge an entire religion based on the cruelty of someone that you choose to be the "representative" of a certain religion. See Baba, I have no doubt in my mind that idiots like bin Laden and Al-Qaeda have given Islam a negative image, and I have no doubt in my mind that everytime a non-Muslim makes a comment and some irrational person begins shooting or bombing that it effects the way people look at Islam. But the problem here is that you begin to blame the religion because of the idiots that you decided would be "ambassadors"of Islam. I do not deny that the way some Muslims have reacted over the years was violent and they should be punished, no doubt about that. But it is not the religion that is violent, it's these people that decide to interpret the Quran the way they want to, and use their religion as a way to harm others. It is wrong, and it is something that needs to be dealt with on a far higher level in the Muslim world than it is now.
Baba you said you're sympathetic about this, but you know what, I'm not! They should not resort to violence no matter what has happened, if it is a comment. (If someone is being violent with them though, I believe they have a right to attack back as well - as in cases of war only). But when someone makes a comment the way that the Pope did (which I personally found rather ignorant- for a man of his stature, he should have been a better representative of Christianity, the way that the Bible demands of kindness he should have been that way, rather than show that he is a mere racist), when a comment like that is made, no violence should be used against Christians of any sect - not Catholic nor Protestant. Becuase the POPE made that comment, they can express their anger with words, while maintaining the teachings of kindness and respect as mentioned in the Quran - and under no condition use violence against any Christian. It is a foolish thing to do, but you cannot judge the entire religion because of these people. I can sit here and tell you all Catholics are ignorant racists that will never have love in their hearts and will always find a way to hurt others, becuase of the comment made by the Pope, and that would put me in your position: judging an entire religion based on one person.
Of course at this point, it is my duty as a Muslim to show you the following verses from the Quran, if only to defend my religion and beliefs without having to shoot your or behead you :lol:. (Note: Allah is the arabic word for "God" - I'm pointing that out becuase some people have told me in the past that they thought Allah was a different God, or some man that we worship. It is merely the Arabic word for GOD.)

"O ye who believe! Stand out firmly For Allah, as witnesses To fair dealing, and let not The hatred of others To you make you swerve To wrong and depart from Justice. Be just: that is Next to Piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted With all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 5:8)"

"But if anyone earns A fault or a sin And throws it on to one That is innocent, He carries (on himself) (Both) a falsehood And a flagrant sin. (The Noble Quran, 4:112)"

"Allah commands justice, the doing Of good, and liberality to kith And kin, and He forbids All shameful deeds, and injustice And rebellion: He instructs you, That ye may receive admonition. (The Noble Quran, 16:90)"

"O ye who believe! Stand out firmly For justice, as witnesses To Allah, even as against Yourselves, or your parents, Or your kin, and whether It be (against) rich or poor: For Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (Of your hearts), lest ye Swerve, and if ye Distort (justice) or decline To do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted With all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:135)"

"And if ye punish, then punish as ye were punished (by them). But if ye show patience, that is indeed the best (course) For those who are patient. (The Noble Quran, 16:126)"

"Allah forbids you not, With regard to those who Fight you not for (your) Faith Nor drive you out Of your homes, From dealing kindly and justly With them: For Allah loveth Those who are just. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"

I would greatly appreciate if we stayed away from racism, I am a victim of racism and I do my best to not judge an entire population/religion based on what some people choose to reflect. If you would like to learn about Islam, do not look at people like bin Laden, look at people like Lebanon's (perhaps-late) Sayed Moussa Al-Sadr. And your comments about them not swimming, it is out of respect to a person's body that Islam does not allow people swimming in bathing suits in front of others. It is one of the things I respect the most about Islam, respect for one's body and ones's self.
 
Well said roka. And I'd just like to mention that (so far) I don't think there have been any racist comments. Sometimes people who speak English as a second language can be misinterpreted, for example, so I think that's always something to take into account.

Unfortunately, unlike Islamic extremists, I don't think I've ever heard Bush use Christianity as a reason to attack a country. That would be for his real religion: Western democracy. :p Bleh, whatever. He conveniently falls back on his "Christianity" whenever it helps to support him in his more internal policymaking- gay marriages, etc. Never mind that all these "good Christians" in politics have any number of mistresses. And I'd be frightened to see what these "good old boys" do behind closed doors. :eek: I feel that's one of the biggest detriments to Islam, and its visibility as a benevolent religion- Islamic extremists are always seen as just that: Islamic extremists. They unfortunately make a point of doing everything in the name of Allah, and this is usually some act of violence.

The sensible among us are smart enough to realize that you can't judge an entire religion based on the actions of the most visible, but sadly, the majority of people are not always that sensible. Again, in a way you can blame the American Government indirectly once again for dumbing down their population, but overall I'd say this is something the members of Islam itself should be addressing.

I'm going to ask a question here and I truly hope nobody takes offense- I just genuinely do not know the answer and am interested to know an "insider's" viewpoint:

Are the Islamic people doing anything to try to prevent their fellow Muslims from resorting to violence and terrorism in the name of their shared religion and god? It seems to me that, since they have the most to suffer overall from the actions of these extremists and fundamentalists, they should be the first ones to try to stop them.

roka, I obviously don't want to make you feel like you are the lone defender of Islam here. Absolutely not. I just think you have a good take on things and may be able to offer some insight in this instance.
 
BabaOReilly said:
Unfortunately, unlike Islamic extremists, I don't think I've ever heard Bush use Christianity as a reason to attack a country. That would be for his real religion: Western democracy. :p
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But he has used "God bless America" and "God bless our troops" or "God bless us" and it makes it feel like it is God who allows them to be in the war ;)
 
That's just the same old Rhetoric though. He's not claiming that he needs the whole world to "follow Christianity or else", unlike an Islamic response I read to the Pope's foolish comments the other day. I've yet to hear him say, "We're going to Iraq/Afghanistan/insert victimized Middle Eastern country name here to show them that they need to follow our Lord or die." I think that maybe, just maybe that's one small thing they learned from the Crusades and all the bloodshed in the name of God that Christianity was responsible for over the years. Or, at least they don't say it out loud anymore! :lol:
 
Baba I wasn't saying that because of something someone said in this thread, no one here has been racist at all, I was saying in general, in the world I would wish we could all refrain from racism.

About what you said about Bush doing what he does in the name of "Christianity", my point was to tell you that Christians and Muslims and Jews and Athiests do bad things, you cannot blame their actions on their religions. I was using Bush as an example because on many occasions he had said that he was a good/practicing Christian. And it really made me wonder how he could say that when he is doing everything against the teachings of Jesus Christ. And there is something you need to understand, most these Muslim extremists are against America for its support of israel- NOT because Americans do not hold Islamic beliefs. We need to be able to differentiate between the two. Yes, there are some that say that they will kill the "disbelievers", but their main motive is to get rid of israel and somehow prevent America from supporting them while they kill Arabs in the Middle East. If it wasn't for that - I truly doubt America would ever be attacked. They stupidly throw in words like "disbelievers" and "Satans", which only makes them look like the evil ones - but the main motive is America's support of israel. Otherwise they'd be after the rest of the Christians as well, and not just America if that was the only reason. However, there are a few that have made many speeches claiming that anyone that does not follow the words of Prophet Muhammad should be killed. To me, that is plain old stupidity. That is no way to earn respect.
As for your question, Baba, yes inside the Muslim world many are struggling to prevent the violence and to put an end to anyone spoling the image of Islam in any way. Unfortunately, not many are willing to listen to them. You've got to look at the terminology: extremists.
That's exactly what it is here, they would go to the extreme to get things their way, and the Islamic peace-makers are, in the views of these extremists, just like the "disbelievers". For some reason, they're programmed to think the way they do. (My mom blames America. I'm still looking for answers :lol:).
And I dont want you to think that i feel like youre picking on me, so please keep it coming. :)

DaWacko, I remember hearing him say things about him doing what any good Christian would do, at one point. I'll just have to find the source before I can be sure of his words. It really is a shame that people would harm society in the name of their beliefs. It's selfish and cruel and anyone intelligent, willing to change the way things appear would be willing to talk things over before they judge.
See all throughout history people have started wars to convert others to their religion and that is wrong. I think if a person cannot be educated about a religion and grow to understand and respect the religion then they should not have to be forced into it. That's why it's important to know your beliefs and to know why you are the way you are, and follow through in life the way that you do.
 
Thanks roka. That's interesting. and I'm glad you're not feeling picked upon. :)

I think another problem for Islam is that "others" look at the extremists and assume that while the rest of the Muslim world may not condone the violence, they let it happen because they "secretly" are willing to accept the means if the end is acceptable. It's a tough situation to be in, I think.

Bush a good Christian? To me a good Christian who is just someone who's been raised to believe in God and goes to church when it's convenient, or when they need to take the moral high road. Meh. Not impressed.

And I'm sure no one ever says "God bless us" in Finland. ;)

Needless to say, I'm not one to think overly fondly on religion in general. :lol
 
But he has used "God bless America" and "God bless our troops" or "God bless us" and it makes it feel like it is God who allows them to be in the war
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I must disagree here. When we Americans say "God bless America" or "God bless our troops," that's a way of asking God for His protection and guidance. We're not praying for His permission to enter into war.

Baba, there are lots of people in this world who claim to be Christians. However, their actions don't necessarily bare out the fruits of a Christian. I can claim to be a baseball player, but believe me, when you see me take the field, my actions would definitely bare out that I am not a baseball player. Please don't judge all Christians by an individual who claims to be a Christian but doesn't act like one. Thank you for your consideration.
 
Oh yeah, that's definetely something that many people believe. The truth of it is, there are many loyal Muslims that would rather be killed than to have the image of Islam distorted by these extremists' ways. I think a really good example would be the way that Hezbollah fought during the 34 day Lebanese-israeli war. They could have easily committed the type of war crimes that israel had committed, or done the type of damage that bin Laden would encourage, killing as many civilians as possible, destroying israel as a whole. But they did not do that, and when some Lebanese people organized a strike in Beirut by the UN building - the head of Hezbollah begged them on public tv to keep it a calm strike, not to destroy the building or hurt anyone while they're expressing their views. They did not listen, and destroyed the building... even after he had repeatedly asked them to keep it a peaceful strike. And any strike that has been organized by Hezbollah in the past was non-violent. They practice their right to speak freely, but unlike extremists, they do it peacefully and although Nasrallah is known to be very sharp with his speeches (tends to hit the nail damn hard on the head :lol:), he keeps it non-violent at all times. He's the most powerful man in the world, he has the ability to do things the way that bin Laden does, but he doesn't. He chooses to do it the Muslim way.
 
Roka4csi said:
He's the most powerful man in the world, he has the ability to do things the way that bin Laden does, but he doesn't. He chooses to do it the Muslim way.
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Do you mean the Islamic world?

Edited to add: And it's not Christians specifically that I don't appreciate. I'm basically biased against all religions. :lol:
 
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