Is Mac too righteous? *SPOILERS*

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Over the last few weeks--well, the course of the season, really--I've seen posts here and there about Mac being holier than thou, and on a high horse. The character has a strict code, which even he himself can't always adhere to. On one hand he's constantly telling Danny not to follow his gut, but going with his own gut in another episode this season, "Sweet Sixteen," despite the fact that initially there was no evidence to corroborate his theory.

And then there's his clash with Flack--Mac demanded Flack's log book despite the fact that the detective had serious reservations about turning it over and used it to put away a crooked cop.

Mac's always been right in these situations--he is the lead character after all. He's hard on his people--Aiden got fired for tampering with evidence, something we know Mac would never do and could never condone--but is he as hard on himself?

The reason I put a spoiler tag on this is because given that the upcoming eps deal with some heavy stuff for Mac I thought it could factor into the discussion.

What do you guys think?
 
I'm one of those folks who thinks Mac is holier-than-thou, but I don't think he realizes it, which makes it all the more frustrating for me as a viewer. Intellectually, I know he acts the that way because he truly believes he's doing the right thing, but on a gut level, his astonishing social tone deafness get my knickers in a knot. He's so keen to get the Bad Guy of the Moment that he often runs roughshod over the feelings of his colleagues and ignores or discounts the far-reaching implications of his actions.

In the case of Flack, I submit that he was right to ask for the memo book, but his initial execution of the request was horrendous; Flack was right to perceive it as "his interrogation" because that's what it was. At that point, Truby wasn't part of the equation, and it was Flack's integrity he was questioning. Yet he failed to grasp why this would provoke such a strong reaction in Flack and was completely boggled by his defensive hostility.

I could've lived with the way he handled the actual appropriation of the memo book if he hadn't launched into that smug, ham-fisted insulting lecture about respecting the badge. As a third or fourth-generation cop, I'm sure Flack knows a thing or two about respecting the badge. Mac can be terribly condescending, and he sometimes forgets that he's not the only one with a moral compass.

If the spoilers are correct, Mac will be wearing the shoe on the other foot soon, and by all accounts, he doesn't handle it with the aplomb one would expect. Supposedly of the three called to testify, Flack is the only one to keep his cool and not flounce out in a huff over the fact that his word wasn't accepted as law. To be fair, I'd bet Danny's flounce will be an ill-advised show of solidarity, and it may well be that only Mac's integrity is called into question. The mere fact that Mac flounces out because IAB just doesn't take his word for it that he was right tells me all I need to know about Mac, especially since he'd be touting the sanctity of following the chain of command if it were anyone else. Like he did in "Officer Blue" and "On the Job."

With Mac, it's "Do as I say, not as I do," and that's self-righteousness in a nutshell.
 
Mac is my fave CSI character. He was a marine, so I would expect that type of strict law following behaviour. Most people can't accuratly judge their own behaviour though, and almost every human is some kind of a hypocrite because of this. I don't know why fans always get mad at a character whenever a 'bad' character trait comes up. They are supposed to be characters to resemble real people, and real people are never perfect. This just makes Mac more human too me. Every character should have some kind of flaw, and this is his...
 
xfcanadian said:
Mac is my fave CSI character. He was a marine, so I would expect that type of strict law following behaviour. Most people can't accuratly judge their own behaviour though, and almost every human is some kind of a hypocrite because of this. I don't know why fans always get mad at a character whenever a 'bad' character trait comes up. They are supposed to be characters to resemble real people, and real people are never perfect. This just makes Mac more human too me. Every character should have some kind of flaw, and this is his...
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Yeah, I agree. Mac can be a bit hypocritical/holier-than-thou, but he's only human. Like you say, everyone has faults and this is his. Grissom on CSI can be kind of inconsiderate of people's feelings and a bit like Mac too - like in S1 when he told Sara not to get emotionally involved with victims in Too Tough To Die (the one with the black woman who got raped and shot and left for dead) and then a few eps later in Gentle, Gentle (with the baby who got killed by his brother who was only three and the family tried to make it look like a kidnap/murder thing). But I still love Grissom. And I love Mac despite his righteousness. And I happen to find him really HOT so I'm biased anyway. ;)
 
it is true...


when you find somebody hot like Mac...you dont care what they do wrong...you'll allways forgive them!

i suppose Mac does have some inner-traits that some people dont like and some people do...but if they were all the same then we'd all be robots...and we wouldn't ever be significant!

no thanks...ill stick to our hypocritical macky!
 
I think Mac is very self righteous.
It's one rule for him and another for everyone else.
He's told Danny, Hawkes, Lindsay and Stella at some point to follow the evidence not their gut instinct. I know in Sweet Sixteen he was right on the suspect but he jumped in feet first and disregarded Flack's initial thoughts even before all the evidence was back.
He was right to take Flack's memo book but the way he went around it was wrong. Of course Flack was going to get defensive, he was putting hmself out there and he had the information to bring down the dirty cops. Mac should have given him time. Flack is honest and clever enough to know when to do the right thing.
I would love to see Mac get it wrong once in a while. He just seems abit too much of a know it all. I know he's the supervisior but you can't be right every time. Would make him more human in my opinion.
 
I love Mac's character. He's like the daddy of the show, and hey, no-one is perfect. I do think he can act a bit oddly at times, I watched 'Officer Blue' yesterday and didn't like the way he reacted to Stella. Usually he's pretty level-headed though.
 
I think he can be a touch pompous sometimes and downright sanctimonious at others. Nevertheless I think that those working with him know that he behaves like that because he thinks its for the best so they let him get away with it, they tolerate his behaviour because Mac's essentially a good guy.

He may be too righteous on occasion but it's born out of a duty to his job rather than an over-inflated ego...
 
I think that Mac is a great character and he has high morals. He stands for what he knows or believes his right. Yes, he can be a bit of a hypocrite... but then again, everyone is. He's protective over his team and cares about them. He does things if he knows or thinks is right. And he usually is. He knows his duty, but I admit that he DID cross the line a little with the whole memo-book incident. He almost straight-out accuse Flack.
Nevertheless, I think that Mac is the heart of the show and the show wouldn't be as good without it.
 
I don't think anyone is saying Mac is a bad guy or should be booted off the show, but he can be a bit of an ass when it suits him. As others have pointed out, so can everybody else. Thing is, no one ever calls Mac on his assholery.

If my Flackolyte interpretation of upcoming spoilers is correct, Flack will finally give him some what-for when Mac starts whining and chest-beating about the unfairness of the IAB investigation in which he becomes embroiled, and it's about damn time.

If Mac takes the whining road, however, he'll have to lose a measure of credibility with his team. You can't harangue them about respecting your authoritah when you've flouted that same chain of command, landed in hot water, and whined about it, especially not when Flack and Danny saw you do it.
 
xfcanadian said:
Mac is my fave CSI character. He was a marine, so I would expect that type of strict law following behaviour. Most people can't accuratly judge their own behaviour though, and almost every human is some kind of a hypocrite because of this. I don't know why fans always get mad at a character whenever a 'bad' character trait comes up. They are supposed to be characters to resemble real people, and real people are never perfect. This just makes Mac more human too me. Every character should have some kind of flaw, and this is his...
Click to expand...

I actually don't dislike Mac--I did in the first season, but I like him now, especially since we've seen more of his softer side. And I like that he's not perfect, because perfect is boring. I just thought this could make for an interesting discussion because I've seen it come up before here and there.

La_Guera said:
I'm one of those folks who thinks Mac is holier-than-thou, but I don't think he realizes it, which makes it all the more frustrating for me as a viewer. Intellectually, I know he acts the that way because he truly believes he's doing the right thing, but on a gut level, his astonishing social tone deafness get my knickers in a knot. He's so keen to get the Bad Guy of the Moment that he often runs roughshod over the feelings of his colleagues and ignores or discounts the far-reaching implications of his actions.
Click to expand...

True, and the hypocrisy--which I don't think he's aware of--kind of bothers me. Why is it okay for him to go on his gut and not Danny (well, okay, Danny's instincts suck :lol: but in theory)? Why in "The Fall" did he feel the need to hover and remind Flack what needed to be done when it was clear Flack was thinking the same way?

In the case of Flack, I submit that he was right to ask for the memo book, but his initial execution of the request was horrendous; Flack was right to perceive it as "his interrogation" because that's what it was. At that point, Truby wasn't part of the equation, and it was Flack's integrity he was questioning. Yet he failed to grasp why this would provoke such a strong reaction in Flack and was completely boggled by his defensive hostility.
Click to expand...

Good point. Flack lead that team so naturally the buck stopped with him, and any initial suspicion would fall on him. Mac is such a scientist sometimes that I think he doesn't take into account other people's feelings and gut reactions.

I could've lived with the way he handled the actual appropriation of the memo book if he hadn't launched into that smug, ham-fisted insulting lecture about respecting the badge. As a third or fourth-generation cop, I'm sure Flack knows a thing or two about respecting the badge. Mac can be terribly condescending, and he sometimes forgets that he's not the only one with a moral compass.
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Yeah, that bothered me in "The Fall" too. He acts like he doesn't trust Flack to do the right thing when Flack has done nothing but do the right thing in every episode we've seen. He was the one who went to get Moran's log book. Flack has never given Mac a reason not to trust him.

If the spoilers are correct, Mac will be wearing the shoe on the other foot soon, and by all accounts, he doesn't handle it with the aplomb one would expect. Supposedly of the three called to testify, Flack is the only one to keep his cool and not flounce out in a huff over the fact that his word wasn't accepted as law.
Click to expand...

I think in that way, Flack is more mature than either Mac or Danny. Mac is so righteous, and Danny just very earnest. Flack, as he told Danny in "On the Job," trusts the system. He believes in justice and that things work out the way they should. I like his perspective on things.

To be fair, I'd bet Danny's flounce will be an ill-advised show of solidarity,
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That's very Danny, so I wouldn't be surprised.

and it may well be that only Mac's integrity is called into question. The mere fact that Mac flounces out because IAB just doesn't take his word for it that he was right tells me all I need to know about Mac, especially since he'd be touting the sanctity of following the chain of command if it were anyone else. Like he did in "Officer Blue" and "On the Job."
Click to expand...

I think it will be interesting because it shows that Mac has a bit of an ego. I can't wait to see how it all plays out.

With Mac, it's "Do as I say, not as I do," and that's self-righteousness in a nutshell.
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That really did bother me with him going with his gut in "Sweet 16" when he's always told others not to.
 
I think it is funny how the bulk of this conversation is about how Mac has been holier than thou with Flack. If you read back through the posts you will notice a trend of people talking about specific episodes where Mac has been all over Flack for something or other.
Mac does come across a little hypocritical. I think that he wants to lead his team and in the Marines you lead by being tough and pushing your "men".
I do think that Mac is a little more critical of Flack. Maybe it is because Flack isn't Mac's subordinate, maybe it is because of Flack's dad, maybe it is because Flack is young (he is the youngest). There are a lot of reasons.

Stella stood up to Mac. I think that when she did that (Officer Blue) Mac realized that he wouldn't be able to treat Stella in such a righteous way.

Danny sometimes needs a kick in the butt. With his past and his family history, Mac might feel that he needs to ride Danny a little harder than the others.

I think that Mac is a great leader and a good character. There are a lot of different ways to lead and this is how Mac chooses to do it.
 
flacksgirl said:
I think it is funny how the bulk of this conversation is about how Mac has been holier than thou with Flack. If you read back through the posts you will notice a trend of people talking about specific episodes where Mac has been all over Flack for something or other.
Mac does come across a little hypocritical. I think that he wants to lead his team and in the Marines you lead by being tough and pushing your "men".
I do think that Mac is a little more critical of Flack. Maybe it is because Flack isn't Mac's subordinate, maybe it is because of Flack's dad, maybe it is because Flack is young (he is the youngest). There are a lot of reasons.
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Mac is pretty hard on Flack, that's true. But I also think he's been hard on Danny, especially when it comes to Danny following his instincts. But like you said, Danny needs to be reigned in a bit. And his instincts really do suck--he always trusts the killers. :lol: But Flack has proved himself to be nothing but capable and honest.
 
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