Horatio and Stetler - past, present, future

[Delynn]

If they bring Saris back next season, it would be especially sad, because Rick should've been able to be in that storyline. I really thought at one point that they were going to have Rick and H go after Saris, and that Rick would shoot Saris. I think there was even a spoiler/rumor about this last season, but then it never happened.

I saw DLS in the LV episode, too. He did a great job!

I saw some real story potential with the Horatio/Stetler/Saris story. That was really a chance to see Horatio and Rick working TOGETHER towards a common goal.

I don't think TPTB have any REAL idea the mistake they've made letting DLS/Stetler go.

I've spent a lot of episodes in the past wondering at a lot of points why the hell someone wasn't calling Rick or where the hell he was based upon the circumstances. I have a feeling the grief I feel at losing Rick is only going to increase as the series continues.

He was an important recurring character that was obviously valued much more by the fans than TPTB. Rick's departure is another example of TPTB being unable to see true potential in a character and working to make it happen.

Horatio and Rick was a dynamic with amazing potential that was never really tapped. They could have really gone places with those two and their interaction. Sadly TPTB vision for CSI Miami is, and has been for several years now, terribly myopic and exclusive. And we've all lost out on what could have been several amazing storylines as a result.

Edit: You know, it just occurred to me while posting a message in the Horatio/DC thread, a lot of damage can be done from a prison cell if one is determined. I just never really got that "evil" vibe from Rick. That's why what happened at the end was so distasteful. It was completely out of character. I don't like what they did to Rick. As much as I'd like to see him reappear, I don't want to see it be a scenario where he is trying to "get even" with Horatio.

I could live with a scenerio where he "hears" about something in the works that could be a threat to Horatio and/or the team and then he warns Horatio. I'd like to see Rick redeemed. I think they owe it to him for the lousy way they gave him his send off.

 

[Jag Lady]

DeLynn, I'm with you, but you're not thinking like tptb. "Damage" from lockup sounds like a good one, and someone might come up with it in a fit of desperation when they realize that "all E/C all the time" isn't working. But I'm not betting the ranch. And you're right; that was COMPLETELY OOC and ridiculous, which is why some of us say "They pulled a Dan Cooper on him." Seasoned cops know every trick in the book, and Rick Stetler would know just what to do, as well as how to cover his tracks (which is why the diamonds thing was so stupid and unbelievable), and done right, it would be great. But let's just say I'll be pleasantly surprised if it happens.

I too thought the Ron-Saris-as-informant storyline had some good potential. Kim Coates did a fantastic job, and it made me smile to see Horatio and Rick have to work together, thinking that by bringing Ron Saris aboard, the brass had created a monster, and now what? "Chip/Tuck" and "Dissolved" were my two most favorite epis from S7, and there weren't many.

Horatio and Rick was a dynamic with amazing potential that was never really tapped. They could have really gone places with those two and their interaction. Sadly TPTB vision for CSI Miami is, and has been for several years now, terribly myopic and exclusive. And we've all lost out on what could have been several amazing storylines as a result.

They lost out on MANY amazing storylines, if you ask me. I think in S2, Rick Stetler was brought in to give Horatio a poke in the eyes by dating his lonely widowed sister-in-law, the only woman he truly loved. But then DLS played the part TOO well, and they consistently underused him after the Horatio/Yelina storyline went away. Arguably they could've let him fade away, since he became SOC instead of IAB when he FINALLY got that Lieutenant. I'm really not sure why they had him doing IAB work after "Hostile Takeover." Maybe they should've done something else with him, realizing how popular those two were together.

If they were going to do the so-called "big betrayal" properly, I'm thinking they should have brought back Supervisor O'Shay for that one. As memory serves, he was out to get the lab as well, but they just never seemed to run with it. He would've been perfect, and I'm sure many of us would like to have seen him do the walk of shame. (He's the one who was hiring prostitutes in "A Grizzly Murder").

I'm just sad about the whole thing because they've been letting such good talent go to waste. What was once a smart, classy forensics drama has become a cruel joke. Well, if any good is coming out of this, I'm learning as a fanfic writer what NOT to do from this crop of writers!

 

[Maya316]

Having watched a few more older episodes with Stetler in them, I wonder why the showwriters/showrunners decided to choose Stetler for this "big betrayal". Any casual viewer whose seen one or two Stetler-episodes might assume that Stetler being the one to betray Horatio would hardly make for either a surprise, or for much of a betrayal (considering how on edge Horatio always seemed around him). On a more subtle level, I did see a level of trust between them in later-seasons' episodes, so I absolutely do think that Horatio would've felt stabbed in the back by his betrayal -- but they didn't show much of that, either. Ryan had a more violent response to Stetler's betrayal than Horatio did -- completely understandable , but still disappointing as the closing chapter of Horatio and Stetler's relationship. The whole setup feels less like they put serious thought into this "betrayal", and more like they felt a need to write out Stetler, and made a sloppy mess of doing so.

If they were going to do the so-called "big betrayal" properly, I'm thinking they should have brought back Supervisor O'Shay for that one. As memory serves, he was out to get the lab as well, but they just never seemed to run with it. He would've been perfect, and I'm sure many of us would like to have seen him do the walk of shame. (He's the one who was hiring prostitutes in "A Grizzly Murder").

Yeah, I do remember how he kind of evaporated sometime in Miami Season 5 without any real closure being brought to his story :lol: The franchise seems to have been making a point of bringing back old characters this year, it would've been good to see some new followup on that guy.

 

[bill_az]

Yeah, I do remember how he kind of evaporated sometime in Miami Season 5 without any real closure being brought to his story :lol: The franchise seems to have been making a point of bringing back old characters this year, it would've been good to see some new followup on that guy.

I don't think anyone is accusing the CSI;M writers of not being creative...just not being consistent.

 

[Delynn]

I don't think anyone is accusing the CSI;M writers of not being creative...just not being consistent.

I hate to be the PITA, but yeah, I think the CSI Miami writers lack all creativity. The stories are soap operish and science and forensics have fallen by the wayside.

The victims are all rich, white people. Where is the real Miami? We saw hints of it in the beginning. Miami has a huge Hispanic community. It's my understanding the both Caruso and Procter speak Spanish. Why aren't they using that to their advantage the way they did in the beginning. Where are the middle-class, or god forbid, the poor? Miami has no poor who are victims of crime?

Everything is becoming repetitive. While I really dislike the E/C nomance, it's made worse by the fact that the writers apparently made no long-term plan for them. CSI Miami has been a floundering ship for the past several seasons.

While there have been some bright spots this season - especially the "team" focus in the early part of the season, it's been a long time coming. But even those bright spots had characters saying things totally out-of-character (Ryan - anyone?) because these writers don't seem to have taken the time to even get to know the characters they write for.

Consistency is, and has been for a long time, a major problem. The stories are there ripe for the taking. Just go back and start picking up those wonderful stories and characters that were left by the wayside.

For Horatio, where is Suzie and Madison? Did Madison live? How about Yelina and Ray Jr.? We've seen Yelina, but what's Ray Jr. up to? Are they still in Miami. Has Kyle met Ray?

What about the NY story for Horatio and the ramifications with what happen to his parents? A perfect story to include Rick in - if they hadn't gotten rid of that character with the least creative, lamest send off ever! As I've said before, not just teriffic story potential, a great chance at a cross-over for Miami and NY.

Nope. I don't think the writers are the least bit creative. And yes, consistency is another huge issue for them. I still think that reviewing the past seasons over the hiatus should be required for these writers so they can gain some perspective related to where these characters come from.

In some instances it's horrible what's become of them.

 

[Maya316]

I don't know, I didn't mean to imply that CSI:M would be losing creativity in bringing back an old villain -- sometimes returns kind of ruin the ideal you held of the villain from his/her earlier days, but other times they can be done really well (like when CSI brought back Nate Haskell, though to be fair, he hadn't been gone as long). If Supervisor O'Shay had returned with a vendetta against the team...well, I'd wonder why his anger was with them rather than with Horatio :lol:, but I still think it could've made for an interesting story.

After all, creativity-wise in this storyline they ended up doing the same thing (bringing back an old character), but I really think they shot themselves in the foot with future potential storylines by making it Stetler, rather than a familiar villain who wasn't an ambiguous help to the team. At least with the familiar villain, people could enjoy seeing him go down while being less likely to feel he'd been treated unfairly. As a creative decision, the choice of Stetler still feels like a really weird one -- the archnemesis never goes down in stories unless you're nearing the end (assuming s/he ever does). I don't know who they'll be bringing in to replace him, but he or she will be at a disadvantage right off the bat because they don't have the 8+ years of antagonistic history Stetler had with the team.