Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show?

Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

doublehelix said:
I am not opposed to drama or romance on the show. I'm not even opposed to team members becoming involved with each other. However it has to be done correctly and can't overshadow the show's central theme. Done correctly it should enhance the show and develop its characters. Not dominate the characters and take over the show.
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I agree. I think that Miami has evolved, it's more a a drama now, but not yet a soap. IMO a soap would be like if Eric dated/slept with Natalia, then Calleigh, then Valera, then suddenly Calleigh is sleeping with Ryan, and she gets pregnant but *gasp* the baby isn't Ryan's. Then we find out Ryan and Eric are half-brothers, H has an affair with Alexx... you get the idea. I don't think it'll ever come to that. :lol:

Romance dealt with correctly on a show or even romantic tension is great on a show if handled well, and doesn't become central in any epy but is spread out slowly over epys.

Corey Miller has been quoted that the writers do watch the message boards, likely looking for ideas and angles. I would hope that they peruse this board as well. Hopefully they may even be watching this thread and take some of its criticisms seriously.
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Wow really? That's great, I hope someone is reading all we post on this forum and take what we say seriously!

inthewind said:
I can't even discuss Horatio's one man annihilation squad without being thrown off this board.
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You kidding? Ridiculous as it was, I really liked that opening scene in 'All In'. *ducks flying daggers* I laughed out loud, but I enjoyed it. I mean I like action-H as much as I like the softer-H of the first couple of seasons.

AliGtr said:
And why is no one mourning Marisol? H was married to her; she was Delko's sister. I would really expect them both to be affected by her death more longterm than they seem to be.
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I beg to differ. They still are affected by it! Don't get me started, that was the single worset possible storyline written in ever! Worse then Rambo-H killing of the Mala Noche! And IMO, for H at least should be over it already. If Eric isn't I'd understand, she was his sister, but H barely knew her!! :scream:
One thing I do agree with you, is that the show has too much eye candy! And I love the Miami guys, Frrank included! (not the eye candy part :lol:)

xfcanadian said:
if i want serious CSI, i watch vegas or new york. For entertaining, over the top unrealistic csi, i watch Miami.
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Agreed! :thumbsup:

Its fake, unrealistic and comic book like...because thats the style. It is a fictional world...and a very well done one. Looks fab. I love Miami, the way it is now. It's the pimped out version of CSI and appeals to the younger crowd. Its also the most 'Bruckheimer' of the three...reminds me of his movies :lol:
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Very well said, and, again I agree. I remember watching some interview with the cast, and Emily herself said that Miami has been set out to be different from Vegas and to be more comic book like. And boy do I love those Bruckheimer movies! And Miami is very close to it, hence I love it and even action-H so much. But one grouse, come on even in Bruckheimer movies, the hero gets some cuts and scrapes. :rolleyes:

You know what I think the probelm is? David himself. :cardie: Not so much the acting or the one-liners, but the "get married to Marisol" and the "long-lost son" ideas came from him. I mean, I love the guy, he's hot, and I just love watching him whip out his gun and kill someone (sorry if I come off as sadistic) but he should stick to acting, which he does, play Horatio Caine very well. Stop giving the writers ideas! And we know how much tptb listen to him, but he has horrid script ideas! Let the writers write, and the actors act. So if anyone is making the show a little too soap opera-like, it's David!

Now the Kyle storyline had promise, and to my surprise, I thought I'd hate it but after watching I actually like it. Though they made it too central this season. Like to many epys revolved or involved Kyle to some extent.

I say the show needs a correct balance of both forensics and drama. Drama doesn't make a soap as mentioned by someone here. And the balance also mentioned before is a little off at the moment, but it seems to be getting back on track with the last 2 epys. 'All In' withthe back-to-basics forensics from Cal was great! It was personal drama, but it involved foresnsics. Good enough for me. :cool:

Sorry for the very long post.
 
Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

While I agree that the CSI shows have to be unique, I really don't buy into this idea that it has to be so drastic a shift. I mean, if Vegas is serious and Miami is a comic book, what is NY? It just seems like they can do a spin-off w/out going so drastically in the other direction. (Other shows have done it). The show worked FINE in Seasons 1-3, and the ratings were steller, I believe even higher than they are now (according to Nielsen ratings that I've seen, Miami is hitting an average viewer low this season). I didn't mind the split screen stuff or lighter colors added in Season 4, but the storylines really started to take a downturn.

I really think it's the characters that people watch for - some like Grissom's style, some like Horatio's, etc. And the location is key - Miami has a much different atmosphere than Vegas. I think there was enough of a difference when the show started — the fact that the CSIs carried guns, it was a day show and the leads were sooo different from each other. CSI:Miami, to me, was a much more emotionally driven and team-oriented show, and that's what made me choose Miami over Vegas.

TPTB should not be submitting dumbed-down storylines and cases just b/c they think Miami is a "comic book" show. There's a difference between fiction and fantasy, and CSI:Miami, which is supposed to be grounded in science, is slipping into the fantasy realm.

If you make certain rules for a show, you should stick to them - while I don't mind some of the scientific "cheats," Horatio never getting a scratch is just rediculous.

I mean, are we supposed to pretend the first three seasons never happened? Are we supposed to take the show and its characters seriously (as I believe all the actors ultimately hope we do), or is this just a farce? How can I be concerned for Calleigh's safety in "All In" and relate to a serious dramatic situation while simultaneously being shown something as rediculous as that scene w/"Super-H" in Brazil? And what does it say that many people on thes boards WANT to see the hero injured, just to make sure he's still human?

I too enjoy action, and don't always mind it when H does his thing, action-wise. It's just that this show has gotten sooo far away from its roots that it's really sad for those of us who've watched from the beginning. The friendships drew me in, and now those friendships don't even exist. :wtf:They're either ignored completely (H/Cal), put on the back-burner (Cal/Ryan & Ryan/Eric) or exploited for ratings (Eric/Cal).

I mean, we've got a "love triangle," a long-lost son & Jessie Spano. To me, those three things have tipped this into the realm of soap opera. Maybe someone should ask Eva LaRue - she used to be on "All My Children," right? (Oddly enough, I think Natalia is the most grounded character on that show right now.)

Just an opinion. ::shrugs:::rolleyes:
 
Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

I'm going to reply to this without reading any of the replies first, since I tend to be easily persuaded lol.

I defenitely think that this show has been turned into a soap opera. I honestly saw it when the Marisol storyline came about in season four. I hated that storyline with a passion. Not that I didn't really like the storyline, but everything seemed to be centered around Horatio for the latter part of season four, and even into the beginning of season five.

I wouldn't mind all the drama if they would direct it to different characters, and I know that they do, but it seems that they give all their drama to the "main" character, who although he is the main character, he's one of the main characters, there are at least five other characters who are just as important as Horatio, but none of them seem to get as many storylines as he does. I don't know much about Eric, Calleigh, Ryan, or Alexx's past, but I know almost everything about Horatio.

Alright, that's about all I have to add without looking at the other posts.

Posted by: Della
In all honesty, xfCanadian, I don't think CSI Miami has ever been anything like Vegas and New York. For me, Miami has always been far lighter than the other two, which is why I watched Miami with interest at the beginning.
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Totally agree. and there is a huge difference, Vegas is very dark, mainly shades of greens and blues, but Miami has a very bright color to it, blues, oranges, yellows, reds, and not to mention, Miami likes to blow things up a lot :lol:.

I would write more, but I have to go, I'll probably edit this later.
 
Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

MiamiRocks - Here! Here! I completely agree with you.

In my opinion, there has to be something that keeps the whole "Comic Book" situations in check so that it doesn't reach the fantastical heights of disbelief. I know that I've said this before, but anyway, there have been some incredible situations that Horatio has been in in the past, such as the 'Burn, baby, burn!" situation, but with that situation the core of the character was still maintained, and it also showed the viewer just how far Horatio was prepared to go to protect the citizens of Miami.

Yes, it was a comic book situation, however, because the scene was wholly character driven and because they were showing that scene from the basis of what was motivating Horatio, then for me, it was never 'totally' unbelievable ...Unlike the Hummer incident and subsequent execution of the guy who had fired the gun. And most especially where Horatio executed the member of the Mola Noche gang.

All in all, with both those scenes, when we consider what drives Horatio, those executions seriously questioned his ethics, morals and personal and professional tenets. They basically killed the character off for me, and introduced not only a couple of situations that were comepletely unbelievable for me, but also an unbelievable character too.

As a side note... Someone in this thread mentioned that David Caruso has a big say in what happens with Horatio, and if that is the case then I'm afraid, in my opinion, David Caruso has a very bad handle on the character he plays. If it is true, then I fear DC may have forgotten (or chooses to ignore) what actually motivates the Horatio character and what that character is all about, and that perhaps all DC can see is only as far as the next dangerous situation Horatio is placed in and what smart-mouthed line he could utter afterwards, whilst removing and replacing his sunnies and backing out of the scene at the same time.

I also heard that he liked the 'grittiness' of the Horatio character, and yet for me, there is nothing gritty about a character who blows away several people without even a hint of remorse and shockingly with an aura of enjoyment about what they are doing.

A gritty character for me is someone who is forced to raise a firearm and use it to kill, but does it with regret that they are in a situation where there is no other choice left for them. Gritty for me is where a character will try to find other solutions to such a problem, despite what their own personal feelings might be at the time.

All in all, it was very pleasurable to watch Horatio as the out and out Hero in the earlier Seasons of Miami, but, in my opinion, he is no Hero now. As far as I'm concerned he's nothing but a vigilante who wears a badge. And that's not gritty, that's more like insulting the character.

Lastly, in my opinion, Soap is not determined just because a colleague decides to sleep with another colleague or some such situation, Soap is where angst/personal issues are introduced where the concept of the program is forced to the background and where everything about a scene/program is completely unbelievable, (which includes the situations and the characters), and I'm afraid that for me, Miami has really crossed the line from being Drama orientated to being nigh-on completely Soap orientated.

...Shame really...

:)
 
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Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

Yes I agree that H has evolved too, and partly cos of David, and partly how the writers have chose to write the character of late.

If you asked me to chose, I still prefer the old H of seasons 1-3. But I still like the H now. I could go on and on about this but it's more fiiting for the H/DC thread, so I shan't elaborate.

Only to say that the writers have written H to be a hypocrite as I mentioned after 'All In' in the DC thread, cos H had changed so much since the first few seasons. I don't condone his actions, especially of killing the Mala Noche with a smile. But if I were to look at it on a purely "mindless entertainment" POV, then yes I enjoyed watching him blast the badies away, as I always do. But taken in the whole context of the H character then it was a total let down to the H of old.

I must say that the best example of comic book-like would proably be the show Heroes. But we haven't got there yet. Unless Super-H can fly? :cardie: When that day comes, then I'll throw in the towel and say "What has the show become?!" But till then, to me it's still pretty much drama, and not so much soapy to me.
 
Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

Well we must know everything about Horatio and his family by now. The writers are focusing way too much on Horatio and not enough on the rest of the team. One example in season 4 he knew Marisol for about 5 minutes, marries her, and when she dies they make it so Horatio is more upset about her death than Delko was and it was his sister!. I like Horatio's character but please try putting some more focus on the other characters and not making the show all about him all the time. Maybe this is the reason why Khandi Alexander has left the show because he gets all the good storylines.

The writers need to focus less on the romance side of the show and start focusing on the forensics of the show which made it a hit in the first place.
 
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Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

Wyoming said:
Posted by: Della
In all honesty, xfCanadian, I don't think CSI Miami has ever been anything like Vegas and New York. For me, Miami has always been far lighter than the other two, which is why I watched Miami with interest at the beginning.
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Totally agree. and there is a huge difference, Vegas is very dark, mainly shades of greens and blues, but Miami has a very bright color to it, blues, oranges, yellows, reds, and not to mention, Miami likes to blow things up a lot :lol:.

I would write more, but I have to go, I'll probably edit this later.
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I noticed that too. The same holds true for New York. There's a lot of blues and gray and darker tones to it, versus the bright colors of Miami. And it seemed like in the beginning (and still), every three or four episodes, something's blowing up.

I think that has something to do with the fact that Horatio used to work on the bomb squad, though. Does anyone else think that if he hadn't, things wouldn't get blown up as much?

I think in comparison to the other two, it is more soap opera-ish, especially more as of late. That's why I really like the earlier seasons (1-3). Not just because I thought Speed was a good character (moody, sarcastic, funny), but because it was more about the story than about the characters.

Look at an episode like "Tinder Box." Eric and Speed were in the club and had the personal aspect of the episode, and everything that went with what they lived through and witnessed. And you saw it played out with the characters during the episode. But the fact that they were in the club didn't overshadow the case.

Of course, there are other things about the episode I don't like, but that's neither here nor there.:censored:

I think mostly that CSI:Miami is just that all out, crazy type of show that most groups want to write. I feel like if they have a dream about it, they'll put it in an episode. You know, like they go to bed and dream that Ryan and Natalia end up getting kidnapped together and held hostage by a crazy group of clowns, and that'll be an episode three months later.:lol:
 
Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

I have to agree that CSI Miami is now considerably different from its original state. Back in the first three seasons there were several lab tech people who were frequently seen, now they have all but disappeared from the storyline. It really makes me wonder how much longer this show will last...
 
Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

I'm new to the forums but I felt I need to put my two cents in...


I love CSI Miami, because I believe it blends the science and the drama to make great television, and it is for that reason that HC is so spoofed and admired in other avenues, you can't forget a guy like HC. As far as the soap opera excuse, I admit that there's a bit too much, but to say that the show is on its way to the crapper is a bit strong. It's still winning its timeslot on monday nights and will probably continue to do so for a few more years. You may hate the drama, but obviously not everyone shares the same opinion.

As far as seasons 1-3 being better than seasons 4-6, I'll also admit that I started watching Miami post Speedle and when Ryan was pretty much well established on the team in the middle of season 4. but being the good Miami fan that I am, I went to my local library and borrowed the first three seasons and watched them beginning to end. I personally saw no difference, it all looked good to me! You can call me a bad critquer if you want, that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

I guess what I'm saying is...Miami was meant to be different from LV and NY from the start because the city is different. You can have dark serious science all the time when you're in the city of fun and sun! It screams for drama!

I hope I haven't started out my first day here on a bad note, I just felt my favorite show of all time needed to be defended. And it's great to meet you all! :)
 
Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

You haven't started out your first day badly at all. :D Opposing opinions are welcome!

I'm so interested in hearing from people who started watching post season 3-4-ish and on because they always have a fresh take on the earlier seasons. I didn't start watching (religiously) until season three but I didn't really see much of a difference either until about mid season four when things started to get...more dramatic. :lol: But I had bought seasons 1 and 2 before season 4 started so...lol. I'm glad they're getting back into the grit of the forensics now (at least in my opinion) because I definitely thought season 4-5 was a soap opera. :p But that's bound to happen when you still have the majority of the same cast and it's been on a while.
 
Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

I definitely think CSI:Miami is getting more dramatic. But not really "soap opera". I think TPTB are doing a good job keeping the show revolving around the forensics but still adding in some drama for entertainment/ratings. I like what they are doing and I hope they dont strip away all the side drama, like how it was in the earlier seasons. There wasnt much side drama, just basically all forensics; which is fine because thats how it is for real CSIs or whoever but they needthe drama for tv. I say keep it up :lol:
 
Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

In a word, no, I don't think Miami has turned into a soap opera. The wonders of online definitions states: Soap Opera: Serialized melodramatic presentations on broadcast television of true-to-life circumstances centering around romance and family life and its problems and tragedies.

Miami is anything but true-to-life (though 'melodramatic' just about covers it) :lol:. And it only focuses on it's characters when they're involved in a case. It's not a character based show and never has been. now it's coming up against things like Bones which focus more on their characters, it's trying to backpedal, adding more character-related-drama into the mix.

However, while I don't think Miami has evolved into a soap opera, I do think it's pushed the limits of normalcy too far. I don't think any Miami viewer can say, with any seriousness, that the show is realistic. And if anyone else tells me that Horatio can in fact escape a burning hummer without a scratch, shoot 5+ criminals without a bullet being fired back and have the most attractive family in the world yet still have half of them die, I will cry.

I've watched Miami since the beginning, and I can honestly say i noticed the switch. When Speed died, things started to change. I don't know why, if it was Miami felt the need to step up to other shows, or to distance itself so far from it's counterparts, but things changed. At first, it wasn't for the worst, in fact, it was a nice change, but slowly, things went too far.

It seems most cases involve a member of the team and they're all handled in the most unrealistic ways. I'm all for focusing on the characters, but there're only so many times a character can be targeted by a bad guy *cough*Calleigh*cough*.

What I think happened, ultimately, is that Miami decided to focus more on the characters, but didn't want to be seen to be 'copying' other shows. So it kept the crime aspect it's famous for, and mingled in some more personal-character-incidents.

My opinion on this? Miami, just accept it, get over it and give your characters a real personal life away from work. This would bring back the realistic crime solving we all knew and loved, and give more opportunity for character development. Get the balance.
 
Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

I have to say "yes".

There seems to be more "drama" in the relationships between characters. Which , in turn, seems to leave the episode's cases lacking substance from shorter airtime.

Just my two cents.....
 
Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

Sometimes. It depends on the episode these days.
 
Re: Has CSI:Miami evolved more into a soap opera than a forensics show

I don't see a difference than other shows-I saw Without a Trace for awhile and it would delve into the main players private lives and it stayed within context of the show and I believe CSI MIami does that as well. I watched soaps for years and to compare CSIM to a soap seems silly. Eventually, we want to know more about the characters and for now season 6 focused a bit on Horatio but that's okay since he needed to be explored so now if he goes dark and his actions seem out of sorts with who he used to be well at least it's been explained-found his son, ex is a criminal, team is taking personal hits,etc. Biggest thing is H is having some personal safety issues so that jives with his forensic work. All day long he sees violence and now it's targeting his family-so why does that make this a soap now? CSIM needs to go somewhere s/l wise-we're going into season 7 and the cases and the characters need to have direction. I can't wait to see where the writers are taking things then...
 
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