There've been a lotta great takes on the ep, an emotionally charged one that we knew would stir some strong responses. It's been interesting reading them. Gave it an A-. But it's the first A-ish anything I've given since the earliest eps of the season. The intro was slick and very Miami-esque, short and to the point. And then they dove right into setting up the premise that would fuel the rest of the hour, those who would profit from further victimizing and exploiting the holocaust and survivors of it. Stella had very little to do in this one, but we do all know Melina's ep is upcoming soon. It was nice to see Hawkes get more attention, even if the insights into his family here felt suddenly parachuted in, slighly odd after four and a half years of nada, but I'm not complaining, they gotta start somewhere. It was also nice to see Sheldon get yet more emotionally charged material, due his uncle and then the incident with Elgers, and his response to Danny in light of it. I loved Sid and Pluto (reminded me of the guy Jon Stewart had on a few months back, Neil DeGrasse Tyson, talking about Pluto, very funny, look up the seg if ya haven't seen it). I loved that we got lots of Adam too, and Flack was back to his usual self. Danny, well, Danny's had an odd, inconsistent season, and this ep continued the rollercoaster. My first thought was that it was indeed nice to see Danny back in form. But it also seems to me that Danny hasn't had the kind of evolution I'd hope to see, given the personal turns in his life this season, and more like the writers as a collective cannot decide who this guy is anymore. This may have been a flash of the Danny of old, but it didn't do much to signal any growth from who he used to be, only a brief respite from who he currently is with Lindsay. Unlike some, I did think Elgers could be said to have resisted arrest when Danny first responded to the spitting by wanting to cuff him for harrasment and Elgers wrenched himself away and then, well, resisted; minimal pretense, but still present, and then Danny went way overboard. Elgers was inciteful and provocative, but Danny was incredibly undisciplined and excessive, and we left the first segment of the show wondering what the hell he'd just done not just to Elgers but to himself. Danny really wound up being more a vehicle for Sheldon, and personally I'm more than delighted with Hawkes getting some material as a result. I did like the interaction between Danny and Sheldon throughout. Incidentally, Barbie Kligman was a writer for The Party's Over (blu flu), as well as this one, and both eps have had interesting dynamics between the two men. On the same token, Noberto Barba's a name I don't recall seeing in NY for some time. If he's the time available, they should invite him back more often. I think Matt McTighe has been consistently excellent in his depiction of Elgers, belligerent, loathsome, manipulative, unapologetic, yet not invulnerable and seems to know his limitations as well as the system, plays a very convincing bastard. An ep's only as good as the adversaries, and he's proven to be a challenging figure, and not as easy to dismiss as many of them seem to be. To start the second segment, I thought it was a smart contrast to have Flack, the most disciplined of guys, in interrogation with Elgers after the fact, unflappable in temperment as Elgers tried to continue the same game. I thought it was smart as well to show the contrast between Danny and Sheldon an emotional and philosophical one. Typical of Hawkes, he has obviously given his personal philosphy and outlook a great deal of thought. It was nice to see a depth of reasoning in Hawkes' behaviour and choices. That too contrasted with Danny, a guy who still evidently still has that spark of volatility, giving in to the impulse to introduce Elger's face to the floor in great detail without thinking at all, or thought it justified if nothing else. Sheldon's monologue walked a fine line, but Hill was excellent and kept it from overstepping, even if the rainy piano music within that scene was more than a little syrupy. The reference to Martin Luther King was also a nice inclusion within the ep's overall theme. I was very happy that the IAB thing did not become the focus of the ep, drawn out in any way. It was interesting to hear that the outcome of it did actually result in a penalty for Messer's behaviour. So often nothing ever seems to result from internal disciplinary issues. The only other ones that come immediately to mind are Mac taking Danny off the promotion grid way back when, and the fact that Stella's had reprimands in her docket in days past. Still, the labs seem to be emptying of staff, with Hawkes going to the funeral, Lindsay in Montana, Danny suspended and about to join her, and well, Stella about to embark on a field trip, and Mac flying somewhere at the end of the ep to return the broach. ...Thanks again, Adam, for picking up all the slack... As for Mac, he looked mighty bored in his early scenes. I don't think he really kicked into things until the interrogation with Elgers, where he hit his stride and kept it. It was also an interesting negotiation with Elgers to discern how much he was involved versus realizing this bigot could be the best substantial witness. The first scene between Mac and Abe was also engaging, low key, interesting, not overbearing, and Abe's line "there are those who say You Must Remember, but sometimes it is better to forget..." was memorable to me throughout the ep and took on different layers as it progressed. Meeting his son, and the tattoo on his arm was a nice touch, but it was the inclusion of it in the photo Mac took that lodged in my mind as a curious hmm, waiting to be referenced again. By the time they'd found Elger's print at the B&E on the victims apartment, I felt the ep was flirting but mostly skirting being heavy handed, and while the character interaction regarding Elgers was predictable, the plot about the broach was not, yet. The discovery of the hidden hoards of Xander Green did have me wary though. I agree also that the discovery of the goblet full of teeth had far more punch than the visual impact of the whole of the rest of the room, with all it's flags and weapons and artefacts. They were able to lift Elgers' print from the scene, but as keen as Adam was, we all knew the case was far from over at that point. The ep moved into more Mac moments. It also occurred to me there was a little bit of a parallel in Mac pursuing the broach with Stella and the coins on some distant level. Everyone's got something they can't help being driven to pursue. The scene with the Israeli official kept things on a deliberately even pace, and the interviews were well done in recreating the impact of the time. Back to Klaus Braun and the story of Esther's broach - ... the b/w flashback did have me wondering if the murder was gonna be completely set aside in favour of pursuing the broach as an heirloom artifact with a still living history. As the b/w segment revealed the broach's history, I saw the betrayal coming, and somehow also clicked Klein was Klaus at that point. I then wondered how sympathetic or how evil they were gonna make Abe out to be(eg. a kid drafted and brainwashed versus mercenary versus fervent believer etc etc), and they chose to portray the young Klaus as having been a fervent believer. Long before the last segment of the show started I felt I had it pegged, and the only question was how poignant the remainder of the ep was gonna be. We got another brief Stella scene that did indeed reveal Klein as Klaus, but how the revelation came about was credible and well integrated. The following interrogation of Abe by Mac was an interesting battle. Kinda like shouting at a boulder (and Mac did get to shout a lot), and Abe just weathered it. I was taken out of the ep a little bit by more god-talk, but it was far more interesting and piercing here in it's inclusion for realizing the breadth and scope of the deception of Abe's son, David, and the history and faith he thought he'd inherited versus the true legacy of his father. An aside here, Modi, the man who played David, is someone I'm much more familiar with as a comedian, and it was really interesting to see him play in such a subdued role and guest on the show. The broach did not wind up being a symbol of regret that Abe held onto as he tried to start a new life, but a momento he thought to further profit from, without any qualms, for his son. Any doubt about which identity was truer for him was answered by Klaus' reply in German. We got evil Braun alright, and Ed Asner did malevolent well; then even that got stripped away when he saw his son in the hallway, and he was human again. An ep of bad guys with complexities, even within unquestionably abhorrent behaviour from each. Gotta give it up for that. Both Asner and McTighe were excellent. Elgers was used as a red herring but who's character wasn't actually able to be pegged so easily, McTighe kept him grounded, in the end much more about tinderbox anger, in your face violently bigoted belligerence, bluster and show, (compare for example the tattoos each character chose to adorn themselves with), contrasting with Abe's true malevolence, understated so powerfully by Asner. I thought it was a nice touch to have Lesnick send Mac another vid, especially for the content. I really hafta say here that I think Shelley Berman, the actor who portayed George Savar being interviewed as the camp survivor that MaCanna Boyd Taylor helped, I think he was absolutely fantastic, and his two minutes of screen time had me absolutely moved. I think the ep actually could have ended there, with Mac's reaction, and been just as moving, but it wasn't really unexpected to have Mac on a plane to return the broach to Hanna, and Rita Zohar too was excellent. I think it was a solid episode. I think the guest actors were key to really contributing to making this one so moving and convincing, and giving the core cast something to really push against. It was definitely one the season's best offerings, and of a quality long overdue, finally taking the show up a notch to a level a lot of us have been waiting on, knowing it could be reached.
mac said in officer blue that he was im beriut in 83 so he had to be atleast 18 so that would make him born in at least 1965 if not earlier
It was a very beautiful episode. The way that it flows in and out of the history of WWII and how it has impacted many people like the family of the survivors and agree with what the Nazis had done. I was especially moved by Ed Asner and Hill Harper. Ed Asner played his role exceptionally as a double-faced man who took to being a victim and then the villain. And Hill almost brought me close to tears when he told Danny what his Uncle Frank did when he graduated Med School. *enter whimsical idea of when I graduated med school* And Adam was always so adrokably cute in this one playing off against Mac's stoic character. While Danny...well, Danny;s been on a bit off-shape this season, IMO. Like, when will he ever learn to change his ways! Especially now that he has a family, he can't get himself suspended all the time! Mac, as usual, delivers really good for this episode and I especially loved the last parts for him. Like everything comes full circle at the end. A
Hi meggzie, with beriut is not just possible. He should have come again highly decorated. At this young age that is probably impossible.
^ Mac's age isn't really something I've previously given much thought to, especially as the show often seems to kinda fudge things generally where convenient. But it got me curious. I'll jump in here with my own peculiar logic anyways. I kinda took Mac's age to be around 45 in S1 when the series started. It's been five years. In my head with no other reasoning at all I had him approaching 50 now. The stuff about Reed and Claire and all that is also very interesting and sounds reasonable. I'd forgotten about the S4 ep, The Thing About Heroes, but in a way take that in much the same way as the retro-fitting of Danny's family to be full of cops, and I also seem to recall some curious fudging about Flack's age, etc. In light of your discussion, here's where my own logic now kicks in. Beirut's a key event in Mac's life, and it's unchangeable in history. 1983. He was a young junior officer when the infamous bombing occurred. The USMC does not accept applicants younger than 18, though I thought at one point they did accept 17. Kind of moot. What occured to me was the qualifications one needs to become an officer in the Marines. I did some digging to substantiate this, but I'm not an expert. Just curious. The USMC requires it's officers to have a college degree, a four year one, I believe. You must be in the midst of or have competed a program to apply. It then puts it's officer candidates thru training. There are several different paths to becoming an officer (Platoon Leaders Course, Naval Reserve Officer Training Course - Marine Option, Officers Candidate Course; United States Naval Academy). Say Mac graduates high school at 17. Say he does four years of college, and regardless of which particular path he takes to get thru Officer Candidates School, he'd not be commissioned before the age of 21. The Marines then send their OCS grads to The Basic School (6 months of training), followed by more training in their Military Occupational Specialty; in Mac's case I'd assume it was the Infantry Officer Course (10 weeks), perhaps followed by Light Armored Vehicles (6 weeks). There are then other military training schools he could have been sent thru (Mountain Leader, Ranger School, etc.). He'd likely be at least 22 before receiving his first billet and joining the deployment cycle. If his first deployment was indeed Beirut, the earliest he'd be born by that logic would be 1961. (If it wasn't his first, then he could be older). Say, hypothetically, he was born in 1960, and is approaching 50. He'd be 17 in 1977, graduating high school. He'd do four years of college, graduating in 1981 at the age of 21, and commissioned as an officer after completing Officer Candiates School requirements. He then completes his Basic School and MOS training at 22, give or take. He's then qualified as a company grade officer, and is likely to be sent to further military training schools and/or assigned his first billet, most likely command of a rifle or weapons platoon. He probably would have joined his unit while they were amid the stateside portion of the cycle (6 months deployed, 18 months stateside). The 24th Marine Amphibious Unit was sent to Beirut in May of 1983. It could well have been his first fleet deployment. 23 is a much more likely age for a junior officer of Marines than 18. As for his father, well, apparently the average age of American servicemen in WWII was 26, but that's not to say there weren't older or younger. Say Mac's father enlisted in the army in early 1942, in the fallout of Pearl Harbor, or I dunno, even in 1943 when American troops became more involved in African campaigns. Say he was 18 and keen. Could in theory place his birth in 1924-25. He'd be 20 in 1945 under that pretense. He'd be 35 in 1960, the theoretical year of Mac's birth in the supposition above. Not unreasonable at all. The 24th Marine Amphibious Unit has been redesignated between MAU and MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) on several occasions. I believe Mac was supposed to have belonged to the 24th MAU LF6FL, BLT 1/8 (translation: = 24th Marine Amphibious Unit, Landing Force, 6th Fleet, First Battalion, Eighth Marines), as they were the ones who experienced the bombing. The bombing occurred on October 23rd. (The unit had actually been anticipating completing their deployment in mid-November). The unit continued to see subsequent deployments in the Mediterranean and Arabian Gulf, including Desert Storm, humanitarian efforts in Turkey, also Somalia 1993, Bosnia 1994, even Haiti following that. I get the impression Mac's supposed to also be a veteran of Desert Storm, but beyond that, it's unknown to me when he was supposedly injured to the point his military career ended and he joined the NYPD. (If he received his discharge in 1991 or so, and then joined the NYPD, that would make him a ten year NYPD veteran by 2001, though I dunno either if he was heading up the CSI labs by that point). (Like I said. Not something I'd prior given much thought to but it was a fun and interesting exercise .)
exactly so he should have been a lot older than 18 which would make him older now ( at least i think thats what your saying lol )
Fact was in Season 4. Mac was 44 years old because 30 years ago the eclat with the Jung's mafia took place. Therefore everything cannot have been other in such a way as it is shown in the series five. But one should see over it. It was well played. Now Mac is 54 years old in the real life.
I thought it was a pretty good episode. Ed Asner plays a really creepy bad guy. I wasn't clear if he really killed the auction house guy, though. I must have missed when he admitted that crime, because the focus was shifted to what he did with the Nazi Youth.
Robin, I'm glad I wasn't the only one!! It wasn't until I watched the episode again the next day that I realized that Elgers didn't kill Xander. I got so caught up in the Holocaust emphasis that I totally lost track of who the killer wasn't and ultimately was.
My grandpa served overseas during WWII. He was born in 1922 and dropped out of high school to join the Army (as a lot of guys in this area did back then - sidenote, he received an honory high school dipolma when he was 80 yrs old, a few months before he passed away.). My aunt was born in 1961, she was the last of 5 kids. I'm not sure how much of Mac's family life has been shown, if he has any brother or sisters or how many times his dad was married, etc... but I find it believable that he would have a dad who would have served during WWII.