Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Top41, Feb 8, 2013.
Part two of the CSI/CSI: NY crossover airs tonight! Give it a watch and share your thoughts below.
I must be really excited for this episode if I am going to try my hardest not to check out this thread. :lol:
Go Mac!! Kick some ass!! Oh sorry... :lol:
There just wasn't much to care about, and Mac's hypocrisy wore extremely thin this go around. I'm still not sure I buy Mac and DB having a close friendship, but their scenes, along with Jo and Flack, were fun to watch. DB flying to NY made no logical sense, and was almost a repeat of what happened during CSI's LA episode, which was the reason he was brought in--to avoid incidents like that happening in the future.
Not a fan of Christine, nor did I think she would end up meeting her maker, so the drama and tension were all for not.
I'm going to anticipate a lot of people going on about Mac's hypocrisy. So I'm not going to go through and deconstruct the episode and explain in detail with examples from past episodes why I disagree. I'll simply lay out the reminder that he was a Recon Marine - clandestine spec ops - with medals for combat and valor at a time when we weren't actually at war (Desert Storm was literally in the last year of his time in the military). So just think about that. Think about him telling Sonny Sassone that he put men in the ground on foreign soil (sounds an awful lot like sniper/unofficial missions to me).
Try to imagine and extrapolate the implications of what he actually did and was trained to do and that he clearly killed. It's easy to forget or not realize because he's so "controlled". Maybe it's because he knows what he's capable of if pushed too far and certain responses get triggered. Not to mention that because he knows what he's capable of, he knows that there are situations that he can simply take of because of his background, and he simply doesn't wait around. But by the same token, he doesn't trust others when they're in similar situations because he knows they haven't gone through what he has, so it comes across at times as though he's "hypocritical" - for example, if Flack had been in his position for these last couple eps, he wouldn't have had any problems breaking the rules themselves for Flack, but I guarantee he would have insisted on taking the lead instead of letting Flack go off and do his thing.
I've always been really annoyed that because Mac's background is buried in the details (because it is there, one just has to know the meaning of the military stuff he has around and in the flashbacks), he's often viewed as this stuffy, straight-laced, rigid boy scout who has "human" moments when it suits him; instead of the other way around as being a good and caring person, but very dangerous with a fiery temper and a compulsion to act in the moment and think later which leaks out sometimes from the tight control he keeps on himself. He's not a stuffy, tight-wad hypocritical boy scout. He's a very flawed, very human, very emotional person who is simply trying keep ahead of himself.
And just generally on subject of assigning hypocrisy to characters, unless someone is purposefully and knowingly doing so, it seems rather of an inhuman standard to hold anyone to, even the characters I really dislike. I can't stand Hawkes, for example, but to expect him to be completely consistent in his actions and opinions and words for ever and ever with no exceptions or slip-ups, or regardless of a given circumstance is, well, inhuman and completely unfair to anyone except a Dalek or a Cyberman.
Nicely said, Jade.
I'm going to go back and watch the whole two parter now that it's aired, but I watched some of NY and got a rundown on the rest from DLChem...yeah, I'm strange. I have a low suspense tolerance in general and was really anxious for this one due to liking the ship a lot. I couldn't sit straight through lol. If I watch on On Demand, I can utilize the FF button when I like.
I was surprised there wasn't more DB in the climax, but since he isn't a cop, maybe it makes more sense than I thought at first.
I love the stanning Mac fans are willing to engage in to excuse his raging hypocrisy. Yes, yes, Mac was a recon Marine who killed people on foreign soil, blah blah blah, but as a spec ops Marine, Mac was allowed and even encouraged to operate within parameters that allowed him to do just that. But Mac isn't a spec ops Marine anymore, and when he took the oath to become a cop, he agreed to an entirely new set of rules, ones he has insisted his subordinates uphold to a ridiculous degree. I can only assume he didn't arrest Flack for murder four years ago because he couldn't prove it and didn't care to dig too deeply because a)Flack was Flack and b)he killed a cop killer.
And let's be real here: Mac wasn't a cop; he was enraged boyfriend seeking vigilante justice. He's arrested--and condemned roundly and haughtily--people for the same thing. So no, Mac does not get a free pass for his hypocrisy just because once upon a time he was an OMG Marine.
Mac is a raging hypocrite and has always been one. Despite that I liked the episode. It was interesting to see Mac go badass from a purely entertaining aspect. Gary did a great job and I really liked him paired with Ted Danson. I also liked Eddie working with the two of them. I was just in the mood to be entertained and not to think too much about the episode and that's what happened. Hopefully this means (if we get a S10) that Mac won't be such a santimonious ass toward his team in the future. I won't hold my breath though. I give this one another B.
I personally think Mac could've proved Flack killed Angell's killer. The dude was on the ground and unarmed when Flack shot him from point blank range and walked away. Unless Danny went in and covered Flack's tracks it would've been easy to figure out what happened. I think Flack just got a break because he's Flack, which was OOC for Mac, but a necessary plot device to keep Eddie around.
It honestly would not surprise me if Danny oopsed the scene once he cottoned on to what happened. Not his finest moment from a purely ethical standpoint if so, but in-character for impetuous, loyal Danny who wipes his ass with procedure when friends or children are involved.
It wouldn't surprise me either. It would've been nice to have shown that since Flack has saved Danny's ass so many times because, as you said, it would be a very in character way for Danny to reciprocate for all the times Flack helped him out.
Special (not!) review for a special episode.
Because "CSI" is not enough.
Boyd, that was stupid of you to look directly at Flack.
This episode is obviously for Mac/Christine shippers. For us who are not, I guess we don't have a choice.
Same as Gary's on CSI. Were they paid to do this crossover? :lol:
He's awesome on Homeland.
Have Ted Danson and Sela Ward worked together on a project before? They look great together. Ted if ever CSI got cancelled this May, you're welcome on CSI: NY! Hahaha!
Nice mention of the CSI season premiere.
So that's where "Seth and Apep" came from. Thanks Sid. I was curious about the episode title. I didn't bother to google it lest possible spoilers.
:lol: Sorry but for me gasps are often unintentionally funny reactions.
:lol: Uhm Jo, someone out there is still tongueless! You are so bad!
DB, you are the worst spy ever.
Lovato and Danny should work together more often.
Flashbacks of scenes that happened just a few minutes ago: STOP THEM!
Mac just went Horatio-crazy on the airport!
You are simply awesome!
CSI: NY's definitely gonna be renewed, right!? Hopefully!
I'm not too excited for kidnapping stories generally but I still enjoyed the episode. It made me like Christine. Also, this episode helped me accept Mac/Christine's relationship. I think it won't bother me anymore.
I knew Mac's way of being a hypocrite would show up. Can we just talk about the damn episode and not about Mac's way of being hypocritical?
I loved the episode but you guys are kinda ruining it for me. Stop it.
I thought it would have been a bit funny if Lindsay and Jo did find her but I liked how she was found and what Mac did.
Gary did a great job of being angry and stuff. He needs to be angry more since it was so hot..
Think about it, do you really think the US Marshals would have allowed the NYPD to do what Mac did as an exchange? I doubt it.
What would you have done if you were Mac? If it was someone you care about? I think you would have done the same thing and I probably would too.
I think the episode started out slow but Jimmy was just a nervous nellie who just didn't know how to follow directions. I thought Christine was pretty smart in touching the guy's leg like that and how she could get herself free.
They need to bring back Kirk Acevedo again, I liked him. He probably will disappear after this for awhile since I don't think he is on any shows right now.
EDIT: <ducks rotten tomatoes and eggs while running away>
CSI Vegas deserves some praise for having a B-case in their crossover episode. That was smart thinking. While I enjoyed the crossover part more than the wine case on Vegas, I think the NY episode should have had a B-case too for simple reasons: not everybody is a Mac/Christine shipper; also, there might be new or avid viewers who would have wanted a breather from Mac's wrath.
It relates to the episode, so why shouldn't it be discussed? This is a discussion forum and that character point is relevant to the episode at hand.
We are talking about the episode. That we are talking about it in a way you don't like is irrelevant.
No one has said they would not react in a similar fashion, but then again, none of us has held ourselves up as paragons of virtue like Mac has. If Mac had been "flawed" from the series' beginning instead of whenever it was convenient for the plot, no one would bat an eyelash, and most would be rooting for him. But when DB, who has zero connection to Christine, comes across as the more sympathetic figure than the angsting boyfriend, someone has failed somewhere.
Two shows, same problem. Neither show made good use of the crossover character. Although, I will admit that NY did better than Vegas in that department. D.B. faded out gradually. At least in NY everyone was working the same case. It wasn't like Mac, Jo and Hawkes working the Christine case and Mr. and Mrs. Messer working a seperate case. I wish they'd use Sid as much in other episodes. Lately it feels like they just show him doing the autopsy, set to really cool music, of course. Then he reports his findings to one or two members of the team then no more Sid. Now my main problem with the crossover: it should've been with Person Of Interest. The Machine could've gave Finch and Reese Christine's social security number during the last 5 or 10 minutes of Person Of Interest and set the crossover in motion. Then made it official at the beginning of CSI: NY. Or maybe a 3 show crossover: Started the story on CSI then moved it to Person Of Interest then wrapped it up in CSI: NY.
Note to CBS: I'm still waiting for my Person Of Interest--CSI: NY crossover.
Oh well, if CSI: NY gets renewed for season 10, there's always next year.
Now about this episode: I'm giving it an A.
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