Grade "Dead Reckoning"

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Top41, Oct 14, 2009.

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How would you grade Dead Reckoning?

  1. A+

    13 vote(s)
    18.6%
  2. A

    13 vote(s)
    18.6%
  3. A-

    9 vote(s)
    12.9%
  4. B+

    8 vote(s)
    11.4%
  5. B

    7 vote(s)
    10.0%
  6. B-

    8 vote(s)
    11.4%
  7. C+

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  8. C

    4 vote(s)
    5.7%
  9. C-

    3 vote(s)
    4.3%
  10. D+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. D-

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  13. F

    3 vote(s)
    4.3%
  1. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

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    I think the delivery girl was robbing the drug dealers.

    Not at all. That's another example of Danny being used to prop Lindsay up. He had his own storyline--the Ruben arc. She... didn't have anything going on. She was brought into his storyline to give her something to do--and of course bring in the drama.

    They should, save for the fact that Anna hasn't been given a storyline to carry on her own since season two. To me, that suggests independent of DL, they're not confident in Lindsay as a character.

    Danny's still a great character and I'm still interested in him, but this storyline really didn't do nearly as much for him as it should have. And that's too bad.
     
  2. Maya316

    Maya316 Lab Technician

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    Alright, I have to watch this again. I missed any mention of drug dealers...:wtf:

    Why would the alternative to Lindsay-having-nothing-to-do be to showcase her in a storyline that apparently highlights her "weakness" (if TPTB really do think the way Anna carries off angsty scenes is weak)? Except for Mac and Danny, none of the other characters had anything to do in Season 4, either. It wasn't exactly critical for Lindsay be the exception. Yes, most likely to bring in the drama, but that was kind of my point -- DL has mostly been angsty and drama-ridden, Carmine's strength. If they were going to use it to highlight AB's strengths, Lindsay probably would have been doing what she's doing now, way back then.

    They were about to split them in S5, that takes a level of confidence. And Lindsay was fairly positive and pretty much standing on her own in S4 too (until the drama hit, it was barely possible to tell that DL were supposed to be a thing).

    To me, it's less that Anna hasn't been given a solo storyline to carry; and more that all of her storylines since Season 2/3 have involved Danny. Not that I'm not peeved about this, but if we're taking DL into account, she's had nothing but storylines. Directly because of that, it's not just Lindsay solo-stories that have been lacking since Season 2, it's pretty much every other supporting character.

    No, it definitely didn't. Not just with the hastiness of everything, but I still feel they should've made more of an effort to make the storyline character-specific to Danny, if they had to run with it. He's not exactly someone I can picture taking his near-paralysis so (comparatively) calmly. I liked the therapy scenes from 6.04, and even his determination from 6.03, but "Epilogue" is still the most real this storyline has ever felt for me, simply because Danny's frustration was very believable and IC.
     
  3. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

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    Sorry--I meant drug user guys. :eek: The scuzzy guys she delivered drugs to--she brought the drugs to their house in the World Send packages and then went back to murder/rob them.

    Because young viewers love relationship drama and DL has drawn a lot of chatter/attention.

    What about seasons 3 and 5? Hawkes has the Shane Casey thing in season three as well as the dead date conflict in season 3, and then the storyline in "Help" in season 5. Stella had her AIDS scare in season 3, the foster sister in that same season, in season 4 she had Drew Bedford (not really a romance since she was mostly just suspicious of him) and in season 5 the Greek storyline. Flack had the cops vs. CSI conflicts in season 3 (Consequence, Sweet 16, Comes Around, etc.) and the storyline with his sister in season 5, and the death of Angell. Even Adam had two storylines in season five (the little boy he reached out to in "The Party's Over" and the man he saved in "Green Piece").

    Lindsay had "Stealing Home" in season two. The big dark secret storyline in season 3 was the last real storyline she's had independent of DL--and really, that wasn't even independent of DL.

    Over multiple seasons though? I think it stands out.

    I don't think it's used to highlight her strengths--I think it's used to appeal to a certain demographic. But of the two, Lindsay is the one who benefits from it more than Danny, because Danny has always been a fully realized, dynamic character on his own--DL or no DL. Lindsay has not.

    For Danny's benefit or hers? And I think it still would have given her something to work with related to them, because it would have been about her getting over Danny/dealing with the agony of seeing him with someone else, etc. Plenty to milk there and still prop her up.

    Doing... what? Giving lab results? That's about all she did in season four--that and her experiments.

    Joint storylines. She hasn't had her own since season three. And with the DL storylines, the focus is always Danny. Danny is grieving over Ruben so he pulls away, Danny is excited about being a father so he pushes for marriage, Danny is shot and paralyzed. See a pattern? It gives Lindsay something to do... while keeping the focus squarely on the more interesting character in the pairing.

    Like I said above, other characters have gotten stories with focus on them. She hasn't.

    I agree, and I would have liked to see other characters interact a bit more with Danny, and to really see him have a heart to heart with someone. I love how Danny always turns to Flack with his problems to confide in, and I get that because of Flack's situation, that maybe wasn't the way to go. Or maybe it would have been nice to see them together and have Danny pour his heart out and then try to get Flack to talk, and fail. Or Danny could have gone to Mac--those scenes are always nice too, because Danny looks up to Mac as a father figure. And herein is another problem I have with DL--while it was nice to see Lindsay being supportive, those scenes and interactions are the least interesting. She doesn't really draw Danny out in the way Flack and Mac do and while her supportive speech was nice--very nice and atypical for the character, or a sign of growth, whichever--it didn't really amount to a dialogue. We got a bit of what Danny was thinking, but not much, which tells me he still hasn't really let her in.

    This storyline could have been so much more than it ended up being, which is just kind of disappointing.
     
  4. Maya316

    Maya316 Lab Technician

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    My not-remembering this is on me :lol: I remember seeing the girl with the World Send packages, but I don't remember how the team found out about that when it was unrelated to the case.

    Which they're still getting now. Without a tenth as much of the drama. If it's all about using DL to play to Anna's strengths, why would they run with a storyline that goes angsty, if they didn't like the way she does angsty?

    I liked all those episodes, but they're not exactly relevant to what I meant. Save for Stella (and really, she's the lead female, not a supporting character), none of them had anything to do in Season 4, and TPTB were apparently fine with that. If they felt Lindsay had to be the exception to that -- and I don't see why they would have to, unless they wanted to -- they could have (should have, imo), given her a similar 1-episode story like the others have had for most of the series. Instead of a storyline of angsty drama-dump that spanned several episodes. Lindsay not having anything to do during in Season 4 shouldn't have been any more of a problem than it was with the other characters. Less, actually, since she'd already had a storyline in Season 3, plus a 1-ep story in Season 2. (Plus her whole new-to-the-city schtick [with the opera in Risk and the graveline tours and whatnot]; if we're counting things they do in their downtime; and her reaction to Stella's drama in "All Access", if we're counting reactions they have to other people's dramas.) That's a lot of storytime devoted to her already even without DL being added to it. I know I've said it before, but coupling in the DL storylines, and her story-time starts to skyrocket above that of the other characters, with the exception of Danny, Mac, and Stella. It's not only unnecessary for a supporting character (when considering the other supporting characters), it's also not the way I can picture dealing with an actress I want to keep in the background.

    See above. In Season 4 it wouldn't have been multiple seasons since Lindsay had something to do. In season 4, in fact, it would've made perfect sense if Lindsay had taken a bit of a backseat, DL-wise or alone.

    True. I fail to see how the fact that Lindsay really never got the chance to be a fully-realized, solo character is supposed to benefit her, though. I mean, I think she often comes off that way on her own, but the show's never exactly highlighted that.

    And I'm still coming back to the fact that fluff would've drawn that demographic just as much (if not more) than angsty drama did -- as far as I've seen, that drama actually caused the loss of some members of that demographic who wanted DL.

    If they've been using DL all along for Lindsay's benefit, why would they suddenly see it as completely unimportant, if they weren't also planning to get rid of the character?

    Well, yeah -- you can't exactly break up with someone and have zero residual feelings; but those would have been her feelings, and her method of dealing, and eventually (since wasn't she supposed to hook up with someone new too?) her way of moving on. The boyfriend in question being Danny wouldn't have made it any less her emotions or her storyline. Nor do I think it would've attracted a crowd that was specifically interested in seeing Lindsay and Danny together, since, they wouldn't have been together. And I'm not quite buying that TPTB would've fooled themselves into thinking so, especially with the reaction most DL fans seemed to have to the S4 storyline.

    This is all anyone else was doing in Season 4 (save Mac, Danny, Stella in a couple eps, and naturally Flack 'cause he's not a lab rat). Doesn't make them any less defining of a character, and it didn't make Lindsay any less of one either, although YMMV. Does she have to be saving a kid's life, or breaking down over another kid, in order to be "doing something" on her own? If those are the standards, then some of the other characters haven't been doing anything for most of the series.

    ETA: Sorry, that should read "saving a man's life", because that's what Adam did in "Green Piece".

    Danny pushing for marriage was hardly the focus of S5's storyline, so I'm calling that one even, since for someone who went missing for a good chunk of the season she had several moments devoted solely to her during it.

    And then Lindsay was the focus of S3's storyline.

    I do see a pattern. An unnecessary one, where any story either of them might have solo pretty much devolves back to the dramatics; but as far as whose the focus, it's fairly even.

    Other characters have gotten moments where the focus is on them (Adam, Sid) and single-episode stories where the focus is on them (Hawkes). And she's had both.

    I agree with this; think it says volumes about how he feels about Lindsay (or doesn't, rather, which makes me feel even more sympathetic for her than I did in S5), and that's probably the exact reason she's not drawing him out. But they seem to be doing the interactions all wrong this season...like no one other than Lindsay really talking to Danny, no one really drawing Lindsay out, no one other than Mac talking to Flack, no one talking to Stella and vice versa :scream: And it's kind of wrecking how the other storylines are playing out for me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2009

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