Grade 'Cuckoo's Nest'

[ladyhunter]

However, I'm sorry, I keep looking at it a hundred different ways, and I still can't help but see Mac's response on the less-than-sympathetic side. I get that he was busy and annoyed, but Flack was so obviously wrecked when they were in Terrence's apartment, and would it really have killed him to give Flack more than a "you're on your own, I need to know if I can count on you"?

I agree. That's what I was saying. I mean in the very first episode we see Mac at Ground Zero sighing against the fence and feeling very sad. It was Stella that got him to 'open up and go out' at the end of the episode.

Mac's been there. How can he not have any sympathy towards Flack when both men are/were in the same situation????Grieving over the women the loved.

I do however see your point La Guera with Mac not wanting to know anymore. He already found out what he wanted from Danny and Stella and the fact that Flack was with Terrance, his former CI.

I was just hoping for a bit more sympathy from Mac instead of the SUPER!Mac we've seen as of late.

 

[Lori K.]

How many +++ Can I put behind my A+! What a GREAT episode! I was so looking forward to Nelly and Flack and was not dissapointed in the least..And NO LINDSEY!!! Extra bonus!:lol: I enjoyed the mystery of the compass killer and it is hard to fill in all the little details so the imagination does have to take over a bit, not so bad. I got why Mac did not want Flack to spill his guts about Simon Cade, I think Mac gets it, but as previously mentioned, the less he knows the better he can recall, ignorance is bliss! I enjoy seeing more Hawkes, besides he has been with the team since the beginning, so not having Lindsey for once was a pleasent evening of entertainment. Flack oh how I love thee let me count the ways you little doll:devil: And Nelly oh yeah I need me some more Nelly:drool: But the best part of all... cracking that tough nut La_Guera! I always enjoy your posts immensely may I join you for dinner!:lol: A+ from me :thumbsup:Thank you writers I was starting to lose hope and interest.

 

[Maya316]

Originally Posted by ladyhunter:

However, I'm sorry, I keep looking at it a hundred different ways, and I still can't help but see Mac's response on the less-than-sympathetic side. I get that he was busy and annoyed, but Flack was so obviously wrecked when they were in Terrence's apartment, and would it really have killed him to give Flack more than a "you're on your own, I need to know if I can count on you"?

I agree. That's what I was saying. I mean in the very first episode we see Mac at Ground Zero sighing against the fence and feeling very sad. It was Stella that got him to 'open up and go out' at the end of the episode.

Mac's been there. How can he not have any sympathy towards Flack when both men are/were in the same situation????Grieving over the women the loved.

Yeah; I mean, I know I mentioned before this episode came out that I'd rather not have Mac bring up Claire again, as though that made him the only person who could possibly empathize with Flack at this moment. But I'd honestly take that back! Because it's not just that Mac's been where Flack is before, it's that I'd think he knows more than anyone how hard it is to get Flack to open up about anything (seeing as he's really been the only one whose even come close to persistently asking Flack how he is, not to mention how arguably similar in temperament the two of them are). So I didn't expect him to completely shoot him down -- as far as providing Flack with a confidante went, anyway -- in that scene. He did better toward the end of the episode, but it was after Flack had already "apologized", so to speak, which felt wrong.

 

[Dreamboat]

I'm a Flack fan so I loved this episode. The looks he gave the women in the subway car were hilarious. And the way Terrence rode to the rescue was nice, although too convenient.

Flack was contemptuous and dismissive of Mac's efforts to help him, and I can understand why Mac wanted to shake him, even though I still wish he hadn't touched him, since he achieved the desired breakthrough, not through physical force, but by pointing out the lengths his friends had gone to to find and help him when they could've written him off. The "Danny calling the hospitals to see if you were dead" punched the snot-nose clear out of him, and I think he finally realized that he was still valued and cared for even if he had stumbled.

You said it better than I could. I loved the shocked look on his face when he realized what they had done to find him. It was as if he didn't expect any of them to put themselves out for him.

Well the non-continuity people scored again. Did Flack move since the last time we saw his apartment or did they just forget what it looked like? How hard is it to take a picture of the set so it can be duplicated? They're always doing that with his desk at work too, moving it around. That annoys me! Also, as previously mentioned, he has no scar on his stomach, although I enjoyed the view. It's only been three and a half years. Damage like that doesn't disappear that fast. Still, it was a great episode.

 

[racefh853629]

A-.

And that grade is mostly for Flack, because I honestly stopped caring about the Compass Killer in the first episode he showed up in. But I will say this- I almost have the feeling that Hollis himself will be the final victim.

I didn't even notice Lindsay wasn't there. But when she's not there now, I always just assume that it has to do with Lucy.

Avoiding the whole continuity thing...

It was convenient that Terrence was there, but I think that was also because no one else could have been there. Flack's friends had no idea where he was, and someone had to swoop in and save the day.

I echo that Terrence and Flack have something more than a CI/handler relationship. Because how many CI's would also go into their handler's pocket to get the phone out?

But, I'm curious. Did Terrence answer the phone? Anyway...

As for Mac and Flack together... I can understand that being worried can make you say and do things you might later regret. And I can understand that being called out can humble you and make you want to grovel.

But I don't know that Flack necessarily needed a "you're on your own" type of wake-up call. Because I think that was part of Flack's problem in the first place- he thought he had to go through this alone. And I get that he can't go to them and tell them, "hey, the guy posed no threat to me but I pulled the trigger anyway," but he didn't have to be alone with Angell's death. And I think he ended lumping them together into something he just couldn't talk about and deal with.

I also get the feeling that Mac would have thought about doing the same thing as Flack were he in Flack's shoes, but Mac more than likely would have not crossed that line. But he can understand why Flack did it, even if he "doesn't know" that Flack did it.

But I think this episode showed Flack more than anything that he is still loved, he is still cared about, and the team still does worry about him. Because I think Flack has been so consumed with everything that was going on with him that he wasn't paying attention to what people around him were seeing.

I wish Terrence could be on all the time. I truly love him as a character, and love his interactions with Flack even more. I grinned and somewhat squealed when he called Flack, "baby"... and my mind went to the dirty place. :devil: So hot.

A- from me.

As a side note- Faylinn, I love your avatar.

 

[Shica]

I liked this episode, and Eddie gave an amazing performance.

The only complain I have is that in the end, Flack still has nobody to talk about his grief. He says he has to handle it, he has to learn to live with what he's done, and all that, but while he has always been there to listen to MAc, Stella and Danny, hell, enev Hawkes a couple of weeks ago! He still has to deal with his issues on his own, because Mac won't hear about it, and all the others are too busy with their lives to lend an ear.

It bugs me, that's all...:scream:

 

[talkingtocactus]

Angel. I know that some of the people get called by their last name but Flack always called her Jess and I liked that. Him calling her Angel while talking to Mac didn't seem right to me.

i dunno, it kind of worked for me - i thought it was because maybe calling her jess would make it harder for him to get his head around, whereas calling her angell is a bit more impersonal and mentally distances himself from what happened, thus enabling him to deal with it a bit easier at least for the time being.

I love that Mac didn't want to know any details about Flack's actions. The less he knows the better because we all know Mac doesn't do well keeping secrets. He's way to righteous to let something like that slip away unchallenged.

agreed!

Maybe my expectations are too high.

ha, just like stella's in it happened to me

Mac shut him down. "That's between you and your God," Mac said. I'm sorry but WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT???? Mac has been known to reach out to people. Look at all the support he gave Danny when he found out Lindsay was pregnant. Yea, it look a while, but still. Why all of a sudden was Mac so cold to Flack???
It was a good idea, to have Flack floundering, but I really didn't like the fact that he said he had to earn Mac's trust again. AGAIN WTF :wtf: Why couldn't Flack just tell Mac he was hurting and why couldn't Mac sympathize???? UMM HELLO CLAIRE????? Sorry but that whole scene rubbed me the wrong way, either that or I've had too much coffee already this morning.

i disagree - i know others (and i) have said this already but what the hell. i think mac *knew* exactly what flack had done before flack even opened his mouth, or at least very soon after. but if flack had said it out loud mac would, in his moral righteousness or something, have been obliged to make it official. as long as flack doesn't actually state what happened, no one need ever know. also there's the (somewhat more selfish for mac) question that if flack said it and mac agreed to keep it quiet but it later came out some other way, both their careers would be on the line as it would be deemed that mac had known about it and done nothing. if it had been a minor misdemeanour that wouldn't be so bad, but for something like that mac needed to make sure it was only ever implicit. i agree that the way he said it, using the lines about god and priests, was maybe a tad ott, but the point was fair enough.

i don't think there was a lack of sympathy, i think he was sympathetic - iirc, apart from in blink, it's never really been officially established whether mac went off the rails after 9/11 - we know he was pretty upset and all but it's never been said outright that he did the same things flack has been. but that aside, i think mac's been fairly sympathetic about flack all along - he's obviously been concerned for a few eps, and this ep he covered flack at work, expressed concern to stella and danny, then traipsed off to terrence's and, in between all the godbothering, actually did express that everyone was sympathetic and concerned, rather than just pissed off. i think he just realised that the softly-softly approach that they'd implied over the last few weeks was failing dismally and that it was time to get a bit tough. or even a lot tough!

this, basically:

I think the reason why Mac doesn't want to hear what's going on with Don is because he knows already.. But if Don confess then he will have to report it, because he definitly crossed the line in shouting this man.

that's why he told him "I'm not your prest" meaning if you need to tell someone choose someone who doesn't get you in more trouble.

I must pause my uncharacteristic praise of Mac Taylor

please do, i'm about to die of shock :lol::lol:

The fact that Flack failed to recognize the threat from the muggers until it was too late speaks to how badly he'd been compromised.

oh, i think he *did* recognise it but he just didn't care, in a "bring it on" kind of way. often people who get into that state actually want some kind of violent action against them - they wouldn't necessarily start anything deliberately but they might be antagonistic and if such a situation arose would be a bit like "well, i don't give a crap what you do, you can't really make me feel any worse, so fire away!" - although it's fair to say that having been that way myself a million times, i would automatically read it that way, but the indifference on flack's face, and the dozy smile when the two women got up to go to the next carriage, suggests (to me anyway) that it was more something along those lines than a lack of awareness.

I do, wonder, however, how Terrance just happened to be on hand to save Flack. Was he following Flack?

i agree - right train, right carriage, right moment, sure....

- I wonder if Mac chews up Hawkes the same way when he doesn't put the toilet seat down. Oh to be a fly in the wall in Mac's apartment. :lol:

hah, me too!!

 

[Faylinn]

I wish Terrence could be on all the time. I truly love him as a character, and love his interactions with Flack even more. I grinned and somewhat squealed when he called Flack, "baby"... and my mind went to the dirty place. :devil: So hot.

A- from me.

As a side note- Faylinn, I love your avatar.

I loved that scene with Walter and Ryan, but I had to change my icon. For obvious reasons. :devil:

 

[racefh853629]

^^ I like that one a lot too. Terrence has this look of, "WTF did you just say?" :lol:

 

[Tequesta]

This episode is actually the first of this season that I've watched, as I didn't really know whether I would watch it this season at all-a lot of the early episodes I read reviews for this season seemed very Mac-centric, and that annoys me.

But that being said, I've always enjoyed the dynamic between Flack and Mac-two completely different people and personalities who don't always work well together, and that was especially apparent in this episode-the way Flack acted coolly towards Mac, who then got extremely p****d off and was violent towards him. At the end of the day, though, I think it shows just how much Mac cares about him, even if at the end of it he came off looking unfeeling and sanctimonious. I guess that's just how Mac operates.

Since I've come into the season eight weeks late, I can't really judge, but the team definitely seems closer since the end of last season, which makes sense-they lost Angell and almost lost Danny (he's one of my favourite characters).

I did like the lighter moments, though-the interaction between Stella and Danny when they were talking about actually getting home at a normal time, and then both saying, "You jinxed it." It was cheesy, but I like cheesy

I think I'll definitely tune in next week-I wanna see what happens with the Compass Killer!!

 

[Fwuzzfwuzz]

I really did like this episode. I'll give it an A. It flowed smoothly and it finally put the focus on Flack that we've all been anticipating.

I'l start from my initial reactions. Is it me or had CSI NY gotten bloodier. I don't know it just seem pretty gruesome to watch the murder. Oh well - I guess it's always been pretty bloody now that I think about it.

Sid is really smart if you get him talking. I love the talk of the bones. Human anatomy was one of my favorite subject and I memorized all the names of the bones in the fourth grade so I geeked out for a second

Flack seemed to be a very amiable drunk. Although, I ride the bus and no matter how good looking the guy is (Ok, maybe there's no one on the bus that good looking come to think of it) if he smiles at you drunk it usually is kind of creepy. I thought Nelly's character appearing was a bit of a stretch but I guess it's really the only way to carry the story.

I do love the conversations between Danny and Mac. It shows that maybe they were caring and noticing a lot more than I thought. Now, I have to say that this show is a Procedural first and then a drama second. As much as I would love them to follow Flack into his downward spiral there just isn't enough time for it. It's not like the OC when they followed Ryan after Marissa's death. (which Flacks downward spiral reminded me strongly of. I'm a closet OC fan). SO I do believe we should give the writers some slack because they'd have to have the Flack confrontation about 10 more episodes forward to adequately follow him correctly by then it would be too monotonous.

I really do like Mac. I know some people don't like his self righteous attitude but it doesn't bother me very much. I loved his confrontation with Flack it was hot and heartwarming at the same time. There are times you just have to be harsher to get through to someone and Flack seemed to heading to a deep depression.

I actually like Danny's fast recovery. I know people want things to be realistic but I got quickly tired of Danny's moaning and groaning after the 2nd episode. I just wanted him back to his careless headstrong self bouncing off of a snarky Flack, giving Adam incredulous looks, and irritating Mac. He doesn't do that when he's all depressed about being in a wheel chair.

I love Adam but he's been so serious the last two episodes. At least this episode he geeked out and did that unnecessary experiment with the fire and whatever that material was. So he was kind of there but I was looking forward to a laugh and a little quirkiness.

I agree with a lot of you on Sheldon. When did Sheldon become so athletic? He used to be geeky, smart, sciency doctor. Now he's a mix between superman and the daredevil. Maybe I'm just not used to the change but it makes me all the more excited about getting Danny on the field. It just seems to fit better.

Also, what was up with Sheldon's shirt? It had so many buttons unbuttoned I was expecting to see bellbottoms when he stood up.

The killer's story was something else. It was sad but it I knew that the wife was definitely a hallucination. I'll be glad when this story line is over. It's not nearly as exciting as the killer arc they had in the "Down the Rabbit hole" episode. I liked that one better.

I have a mild tiff with the fact that the compass killer can so easily escape the police. I mean seriously, it he teleporting or something? I guess they're doing a minor crossover with Star Trek if Stella's shirt has anything to say. (Oh great now my mind is wandering to Zach quinto and Star trek crew. :drool:Focus!)
.

Wow, this was super long. Anyways, liked the episode a lot! :thumbsup:

 

[BauerAlmeida]

From nearly every single aspect for this episode, it was all pretty solid, sure there were the occasional tad-too-convinient placement of objects and characters, but in a fictional drama that's all understandable. The case was solid storytelling and the puzzles all fit together very well, as was the downward spiraling of Flack's character. The acting has always never let me down, it's quite clear that the three who shined in this is Eddie, Gary, and Nelly. Those three have a wonderful vibe together and I certainly wouldn't mind seeing more of them on screen!

That being said, as much as this episode was textbook storytelling despite a little slip-up in continuity and all, I was disappointed in the emotional punch that could have come with both the tragedy of the Compass Killer and Flack's metaphoric downfall. This episode wrapped up way too nicely to allow for any emotional impact to be had.

Maybe I was just expecting too much, but I don't think that it would be hard for procedural dramas to create strong emotional feelings that actually make their characters seem real rather than just card-board box cutouts. And really, the missing feeling of emotions was the only thing that left me severely disappointed after this episode. It just seems that NY is losing touch this season with packing the emotional punch. I'm not expecting Flack to have a total meltdown, but it would have been nice if there was more emotions than just Flack feeling guilty and sad and Mac telling him that he needs to buckle up. Just because CSI:NY is a procedural doesn't mean they can't get the characters' emotions all riled up. I was desperately trying to feel something for the characters and I couldn't, even with Flack, and if it wasn't for Eddie's completely believable and brilliant performance, I would have written this episode off as another cheap shot to bring up some drama. I have the same problem with this episode as I had with Epilogue when it aired. Where was the emotional drama? Where was the raw gut-wrenching moments of the characters fighting for each other? Epilogue glossed over all that with their one-month-later play, and now Flack's problem seems to have flew off to the distance by a stern lecture from Mac. It just feels rushed and it shouldn't be.

Many other procedurals have found ways to bring in the emotional impact to the viewers. Criminal Minds's recent season 5 premiere was full of that, those flashback scenes of main character Hotch being stabbed by serial killer George Foyet was more than cringe-worthy enough to set off strong feelings that made the viewers feel for Hotch's character. Even NCIS wasn't shy to take a whole episode to devote to the team running off to Africa to save one of their own, and their premiere had jumping me up and down and filled me with so much emotion of both hope and optimism that I so readily declared it the most awesome episode ever! Not to mention an amazing tour-de-force performance from Michael Weatherly!

Being a procedural shouldn't be an excuse to not devote time to character storylines or gloss over the emotional aspect of the stories. NY used to do well with those emotional storylines, they used to do well with showing the aftermath and effects of those sufferings, but now it's like everything is about the case and characters have to take the backseat. NY's Charge of This Post is a great example of dramatic emotional storytelling that NY isn't doing these days. COTP was able to bring emotions to such highs with the race for the bombs and Flack's life in danger. And even after everything had settled down, the ending scene of Mac trying to get Flack to squeeze his hand brought such strong and simply beautiful emotions to the screen and to me as well. I could feel Mac's desperate plea and when the camera panned on Flack's hand weakly grasping Mac's, my heart skipped a beat along with Mac and I shared his feelings of joy, gladness, and relief. These were the kind of feelings that I felt missing this season.....

I just have to say that I am more than irked that this season I seem to have lost that sense of emotional feeling with NY. It seems these days that CSI:Miami is doing much better in that department than NY, and that's saying something considering I had spent the last 5 years mocking Miami for all it's worth.

Yes NY's storylines, cases, and characters still click well together but there is that lack of emotionality that makes the episodes for me, really quite dull and uninteresting.

Lacking of emotions aside, the relationship of Terrence and Flack is a nice touch, and it's good to know that someone on the other side can watch out for Flack as well. Nelly and Eddie has great chemistry!

Mac's conversation with Flack is a great moment of acting from Gary and Eddie, both put so much passion in their deliver that it's hard not to see just how this situation is effecting the group dynamic.

And I also think it's nice that Mac knows where Flack keeps his gun and that Danny has a spare key to Flack's apartment. Small subtle moments of character connection is always welcomed!

That being said, who in the wardrobe department decided that Stella should wear such clothing?? Is this the writers' subtle message that Stella is a red-shirt?:wtf: And how does the cast not notice the obvious similarity to a Star Trek uniform? Surely someone should have told Melina that she looked like a Star Trek extra and not a CSI.....:shifty:

Overall though, this episode was pretty solid. So for ratings it gets an A, I would have given it an A+ if only I felt the emotional aspect of the storyline which I found severely lacking.

Note to the writers: PLEASE BRING BACK THE EMOTIONS TO NY!!!

Perhaps they should have combined Flack's story with the Compass Killer in that Flack is his last victim and now the team has to race against the time to save Flack. And maybe Flack's drunken-ness would be the reason that the Compass Killer gets the upper-hand and nearly kills him but Terrence comes to the rescue and takes Flack to his apartment and then have the team later on find Flack there or something and catch the Compass Killer once and for all. I think that would have made an interesting story considering how Flack did mention that he was working the case the day Hollis Eckhart's wife was murdered, and since things seem to link to that day, maybe we can have Hollis feeling that Flack didn't do much to bring justice and decides to take Flack down as well.....

I'm sure the writers could have brought more emotions to that storyline than what they did here to make it an case A/case B type of story.

 

[Fwuzzfwuzz]

^^^ True, you got a point that the story lines used to be more heart wrenching than they are now. More solid, in fact. You wouldn't believe how hard I cried when Danny broke down after seeing his brother in the hospital. That one had nicely laid out flashbacks and everything. Sometimes it feels like this season has a lot more glitz and glamour than it needs.

 

[CSI Cupcake]

What BauerAlmeida said!!! You put it so well that I can't do much better. If I had to put it in one sentence I would say that from the beginning of this season it feels like the actors have lost the heart of the show and are reciting the lines and going through the motions about 90% of the time.

 

[Lori K.]

Sometimes it feels like this season has a lot more glitz and glamour than it needs.

Yes it is a little hard to get emotionally attached to Sids new toys!...Well maybe not for Sid:lol: How about alttle Smack for Christmas:devil:
In referance to Terrance conveniently showing up on the train maybe he saw Flack at the liquor store already inebriated and decided to follow him? Or he was waiting at the same stop as the thugs and followed them?