GLBT - Four letters not found in CSI:NY

[Fighter]

I think we're ready for some recurring character (or even main, like Adam or Hawkes) to be GLBT, just can't think of a proper way of introducing them. Info that some of them was beaten up because of their orientation and that's how everyone learns, supports them and so - it's just awful and for now I kinda lost faith in TPTB writing abilities. I agree that we need some more diversity but maybe start carefully - have a gay couple who were coming back from dinner and witnessed murder, maybe chased the suspect? Please, just don't make them suspects or victims anymore

 

[Kimmychu]

dutch_treat said:
Of course there are two sides to the coin, but if we ever want things to change someone has to take the first step and in this case I think that has to be the writers/producers/networks who have the ability to reach so many people at once.

I agree, there are two sides (or more) to everything. I guess the way I see things, writers for broadcast shows such as CSI:NY have already attempted the first step but cannot as yet overcome the prejudice and homophobia that is unfortunately still very rampant. You actually stated the very reason why I feel the viewers play a big role (if not bigger) in making changes to the situation:

I know you can not suddenly change people's beliefs or their points of view, so they should probably not introduce a GLBT main (recurring) character immediately, but starting with something like that L&O example you gave should be acceptable.

The writers can write all they want about homosexual people and relationships on the show, but if the viewers don't want to change their mindset, then it won't matter. They'll be hellbent on complaining to TPTB to get homosexuality off the show simply because it's 'gross/disgusting/wrong' to them. There's that saying that goes, for the nation to change, the people must change. In order for that to happen, it's gonna take way more than a TV show to do it because a TV show = a fantasy/entertainment that isn't taken seriously (well, for the sane viewers anyway). Education is the key.

And yeah, there's the whole business about ratings and making money. While portraying gay people in a good light on broadcast TV is a huge, positive step for society, TPTB's ultimate concern is moneymoneymoney, and I doubt they'll give a damn about the lack of GLBT representation (or anything that threatens their profits) on their shows if it means raking in the dough. Heh, ya gotta wonder what TPTB will do if the trends change and homosexuality on broadcast TV becomes the 'in-thing'.

(Ya know, now that I think about it, perhaps TPTB introducing a main character as a gay person would be just the thing to wake people up. So many viewers these days have become pompous, self-entitled asses who think TPTB lives to cater to their whims. It's damn time TPTB get their balls and remind everyone who really owns the show and its cast and crew! )

Especially a show like CSI:NY can provide great opportunities to take this first leap. NYC (although the show does have a hard time showing that) is already world-wide considered as a melting pot of all kinds of people and I guess it won't be as 'shocking' to those with more conservative beliefs that there are even GLBT's living there.

I agree very much with this. CSI:NY is the perfect show for it out of the three! Heh, one of our biggest complaints is that the show only portrays a fraction of what NYC is truly all about. I think I'd already be happy just seeing the other boroughs featured other than Manhattan, ya know? :lol:

These kind of situations always provoke reactions. I don't think the reactions to the D/L/R situation can be totally compared to what will happen if one of the main characters comes out of the (broom)closet, but of course they will get the most ugly of reactions imaginable. I just don't think that should prevent them from taking a stand.

Ah, I was using the D/L/R situation as an example of what vicious backlash from viewers can be like. The D/L/R situation is trivial compared to homosexuality being portrayed on the show in a positive way, and yet, look at the vitriol and hatred aimed at TPTB and at Danny just because of it! I don't even want to think about the negative reactions that will pour from a situation involving something already as sensitive and controversial as GLBT representation. ( God, just imagine if it was Danny who's outed as being bisexual or a closet homosexual all this time! :lol::lol::lol: Fandom will just explode.)

And you're right, it shouldn't prevent TPTB and people who are supportive of gay rights to make a stand if there's nasty backlash over a gay character on the show. I'd be very disappointed otherwise.

Seren_y_Gogledd said:
- NY "Heroes": The owner of the car was suspected of Aiden's murder, it was stolen but he didn't report it because he was married and seeing a male prostitute. He wasn't the killer but his involvement with the prostitute made his lifestyle appear 'seedy'.

:lol: Neither the killer or victim and somehow, TPTB still manages to make it look bad.

 

[Faylinn]

miss_blue said:

I actually liked in Trapped the killer, who was lesbian. Her sexuality wasn't the reason for murder. I think that was handled pretty well.

Another one I didn't remember. (Then again, how many of us even remember the other case in "Trapped" without looking it up? )

I think it definitely comes down to the bottom line (the bottom line being money) with shows like this. Ratings=money, and there are two possibilities with having a main/recurring character be gay/bisexual--namely, I think the hype would bring in some viewers, and the content would turn away some viewers. Would the two numbers even out? Who knows. *shrug*

I do think there would be backlash, particularly with 'outing' an existing character as bi or in-the-closet (although for most people, it would be harder to believe someone coming out as gay than bi, since we've seen evidence of them being attracted the opposite sex)--it's not to imply anything about anyone here, but some people just can't get over someone they're attracted to playing for the other team, so to speak. It's always frustrating as hell to see comments made about, say, John Barrowman (or Chad Allen, both of whom I love to itty-bitty pieces) which basically go something like this: "He's so hot--it's too bad he's gay!" or "It's a shame that he's gay" or "He's too hot to be gay."

Um...not so much. But that illustrates the way some people think in terms of their 'tv boyfriends' so to speak--if the person can't be attracted to them (as if it would ever happen anyway), they aren't going to like them. Granted, there is a very distinct difference between a gay actor and a gay character (since often people salivate over the actor even if the 'character' doesn't swing their way), but I think you get my point. (If I'm being at all clear, of course. :lol I mean, I have seen people reply to the possibility of one of the male characters on the show being gay as, "He's too hot to be gay!"

If we're starting out 'small', I think a bisexual regular/recurring character would go over better (with the general American viewing audience) than a gay character, for several reasons. I think the best way to represent GLBT individuals without making the character the victim or the killer or the suspect is to have them be one of the main 'hero' characters--the possibility that they'd screw it up is no excuse. Diversity shouldn't be excluded because it might be done badly. We should demand better quality in the tv that we watch. *nods*

But I'm rambling.

 

[dutch_treat]

"He's too hot to be gay!"

LOL, I really thought it was the other way around, at least that's what usually happens to me anyway...whenever my girls and I see a hot guy we get all excited untill we realize "He's so hot, he's probably gay" and most of the time we're right 'cause then his just as gorgeous boyfriend/husband/lover shows up.

I do get what you mean however; to make some of the characters we know and like now suddenly swing the other way might shatter some people's fantasies and they will have a hard time still liking that character...

We should demand better quality in the tv that we watch. *nods*

*nods too*

 

[coruption]

Hmm..interesting subject.Thanks for starting this thread Fay. I think they should have a gay character. I just don't think the writers would write it correctly. I dont think this is a problem just with CSI:NY, but the CSI series in general. there are just some things they are not good at writing or developing. As some mentioned earlier,even the lack of racial diversity is kinda frustrating (only 1 african-american in the 3 shows is returning next season !)Anyway, if they do decide om a gay character,it would probally have to be someone new that they would have to bring in. I'm trying to imagine,one by one,each of the characters being able to be outted and i just can't see it (even though I used to think Hawkes would be great canidate simply because he has never been linked with a female;I've resorted to just thinking that he's probally just nerdy-maybe even a little shy.it's so hard to tell-we don't know anything about him!)
So,if it's done properly,I think it would be a great idea.It would bring a nice (but hopefully not overwheming) twist to this show


p.s Adam and Hawkes going at it in a closet!?!? I could easily love some of that!! God I'm sooo bad.... :drool:

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

Fay said:
Honestly, I think Adam would be the most plausible bisexual character. Not because I like him, just because it seems believable for him since 1) we don't know much about him and it could be easily revealed and not seem off, 2) he seems like a young, open-minded man who is perhaps 'up' on the kinds of issues young people talk about, and 3) c'mon, he asked if Mac wanted to be a man or a woman in Second Life--the dude has totally experimented.

LOL, yeah Adam would be quite plausible, I just fear that in his case they (if they ever consider this) would turn him in to the 'gay for the funny situations', where it would imo be a better idea to perhaps link his sexuality to what little we know about his home situation...there were dad issues after all.

Having Adam co me out as a bisexual character would be a great development, especially if they link it back to his home life. Since he isn't a main character () but only reoccuring, it might be easier to create more to the story for him, since there is so much we don't already know.

I really don't think Flack would be a bad choice to make bisexual, either. We've seen him on a date with Devon, but nothing since that or before. His background is as open as Adam's, and it would be great to see where the writers could take that, if they choose to do so...I also recently saw an episode of Sex and the City where Eddie Cahill played a character who'd experimented with his sexuality by dating men and women....and so to me it makes it much easier to picture Flack as bisexual

dutch_treat said:

Kimmychu said:
As for the lack of GLBT representation being solely the writers' fault, I do not agree with that. The viewers have a great deal to do with the situation. After all, to TPTB, what matters most to them is ratings. The higher the ratings, the more money they get. And in order to get ratings, they need as many viewers as possible.
---
Viewers have a LOT to do with the situation. I believe if there was much more tolerance and acceptance by the public of GLBT issues and rights, the writers won't think twice about writing homosexual characters and homosexual relationships, and positively too.

I know you can not suddenly change people's beliefs or their points of view, so they should probably not introduce a GLBT main (recurring) character immediately, but starting with something like that L&O example you gave should be acceptable. They can await the reactions and gradually extend with introducing more and more people with all kinds of life styles and sexual preferences.

I watched ER for a million years until recently, and the character of Kerry Weaver is a great example of a gay character on tv. She wasn't my favorite character, and could be a bitch on the show, but when she was said to be gay it didn't affect my view of her in the least. ER really portrayed her in a realistic way, especially with her struggle to keep the son that she and her girlfriend had together after her girlfriend dies. Even when her character came out as gay, ER still remained popular and liked (even though some religious viewers like my aunt refused to even watch NBC after it:vulcan and I think the same could be done on CSI. The CSI franchise is popular, and I no doubt that slowly introducing a character who is gay wouldn't harm viewership or income in a very drastic way, although I'm sure some closeminded people might turn away.

New York is a diverse place, and its silly to believe that everyone living there is straight (or rich and white, as the show lies to portray...). There are plenty of ways a gay character could be introduced in a tasteful way, and it would be a great step forward for CSI. I'm always reminded of the episode of CSI i saw once, i dont remember the name or season or anything, but it involved a mentally retarded man being killed simply because he was mentally handicapped, and I remember in the end Grissom tearing apart the guy that did it for his motive. While he wasn't a gay character, the man killed was still a minority, and it was nice to see someone on the show stand up for him like Grissom did-and i think the same could be done on CSINY with a gay character. Even if the gay character was the victim, it would be a good moment to have one of the characters standing up for the gay community once they catch the person that did it.

 

[Dawni]

I have to say the same as what people have said but i'm from the UK and it seems that we really don't care what people say or do.

Its funny i was watching "Waking The Dead" a UK crime drama about cold cases which is by the BBC and is a great show. And in the past few episodes they have covered Ritual killing, Nazi's/white supremecy, Incest, Gay relationships and that just normal thing for them... but they aren't scared. I was shocked a little with the use of Nazi and everything but the whole storyline was quite chilling that there are people like that.

I would love to see CSI pull it off they could but i also see that they are trying to keep everything right.

A lot of the UK soaps are as bad i'm hooked on Hollyoaks and they have a gay priest, gay son in a family of all girls... its cliche but its done in a way that it really works they got credited for the storyline where the guy was hidden by his boyfriend while he continued a relationship with his girlfriend it was interesting in that way.

And then there is Torchwood but i can't comment on that because I turn into a mess when Jack/Ianto get close... though that was probably because the 1st time i ever watched it i flicked over and John Barrowmen and James Marsters were having a huge fight then ended up snogging... and that just well i was baffled then realise its a new twist to the tale :lol:

I don't think they would be able to pull it off in CSI as easily as that and just intergrate it but the cases are the perfect way to introduce different things and change peoples perceptions.

 

[pretty_in_pink]

I think it would be wonderful if there was a gay/lesbian/bi/whatever character on any of the CSI shows. I'm so sick of having rich, white, straight people being the only ones on CSI (most of the time)! Why can't there be diversity?! I mean, come on, this is New York City! Millions of people living there!

I don't know, I've just been thinking it over, and maybe they could make Reed (however you spell it xD) gay/bi. Or Adam. 'Cause the writers actually do good with those characters, and hopefully, it wouldn't be all they ever talked about. Just a little mention of it (Like when Adam mentioned his father was a bully in Season 3).

I think the reason the show has no GLBT characters is because too many citizens are raised with Christian morals and told that being gay is a "sin," and they would not keep watching if a character wasn't straight. I guess it's just another example of how America more concerned about whether a character on a TV show is gay than about the war in Iraq. *rolls eyes*

 

[Faylinn]

I've just been thinking it over, and maybe they could make Reed (however you spell it xD) gay/bi.

I kind of got a bit of a gay vibe when he said he missed his friend in "Some Buried Bones", but I would never expect them to go with it. It would be interesting if they had that in mind, though (although I tend to doubt it--it was probably just me with my slash-colored glasses on while watching).

 

[MBGrissom]

I think the entire CSI franchise has always been sadly remiss, in this aspect. Back in the early days when I still used to watch the Vegas CSI, I recall being rather apalled that the only gays or TGs were portrayed as villians (the guy who chopped his boyfriend's head off to fit him in the trunk, anyone? ) or as victims. I have several dear friends and many acquaintances who are gay, and they pretty much have given up on seeing gays realistically portrayed on the majority of American prime time network TV. There was Will & Grace of course, but that's obviously the exception rather than the rule. And even then, they often sidestepped into the realm of parody rather than realism.

Unfortunately, I do agree with whomever posted earlier that if NY had one of the main characters suddenly come out, then their sexual orientation would end up being a character in it's own right. Suddenly it wouldn't be Hawkes the CSI, but Hawkes the Gay CSI. :wtf:

But I would love to see a secondary character brought on, who "just happens" to be gay, without any major issues made of their sexual orientation. The audience would just know they're gay, nothing more nothing less. A casual mention here and there about doing things with their partner, etc. This could have been done fairly well with a character like Jordan, someone who appears here and there, but there wouldn't be opportunity to make a cliched "statement" of her orientation, the audience would simply know that she is. And the fact that she's a successful, professional woman in a position of power is a plus, IMO. And I like the thought of Flack's sister being gay.

But unless it's done as OTT comedy, as with Will & Grace, I don't know how well it would be received by American viewers, if there was a lead character on a highly visible, popular dramatic show who was gay. There really isn't alot of diversity of any sort out there right now, is there? I adore shows like Torchwood - Capt. Jack isn't "Bisexual Capt. Jack" to me, he's simply a compelling character that I love. And I was always amazed at how well shows like Canada's brilliant "Da Vinci's Inquest" portrayed both ethnic and sexual diversity; sometimes as victims, sometimes as perps, sometimes as lead characters, but the diversity was always present in every single episode. The Vegas CSI show borrowed several storylines from DVI in the beginning, IMO, too bad they didn't borrow it's accurate, superbly written and acted portrayal of diversity within a community.

 

[Wolf359]

I would love to have a gay or bisexual character who wasn't a suspect or a victim. Unfortunately, American TV won't take the risk. It also doesn't help that the American Family Association took offense at a kiss between a gay couple on As The World Turns. They referred to it as an "unhealthy and immoral lifestyle." I hate prejudice.

 

[MacsGirlMel]

It's not predjudice, it's standing up for what some people still believe to be the truth,and I support them. Please don't disrespect beliefs that some of us on here still happen to hold and are proud to hold. I've stayed quiet to avoid getting into trouble because I definately don't want to be banned but I strongly feel respect must go both ways. I don't want to sit by and see my beliefs trashed, and I won't. However, in the interest of not wanting a huge fight, I think I'll just stay away from the thread in the future.(I just got too curious and clicked even though I knew it was a bad idea) I'm not trying to make anyone hate me or get myself kicked off the board; I think it's just human nature to react when someone is being disrespectful. As I said, respect should extend to all, and we should try our best to respect each other's beliefs. I'll refrain from returning to the thread in the future but felt I just couldn't stay quiet.

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

It's not predjudice, it's standing up for what some people still believe to be the truth,and I support them. Please don't disrespect beliefs that some of us on here still happen to hold and are proud to hold. I've stayed quiet to avoid getting into trouble because I definately don't want to be banned but I strongly feel respect must go both ways. I don't want to sit by and see my beliefs trashed, and I won't. However, in the interest of not wanting a huge fight, I think I'll just stay away from the thread in the future.(I just got too curious and clicked even though I knew it was a bad idea) I'm not trying to make anyone hate me or get myself kicked off the board; I think it's just human nature to react when someone is being disrespectful. As I said, respect should extend to all, and we should try our best to respect each other's beliefs. I'll refrain from returning to the thread in the future but felt I just couldn't stay quiet.

I don't think anyone here is being disrespectful to anyone's beliefs. All I've seen in this thread is people saying they want a better representation of the actual people living in New York, mainly GLBT individuals. Simply saying that we'd like to see a gay or lesbian character on CSINY doesn't translate to trashing someone's religious beliefs. Just because the character is on the show doesn't mean that you have to love their choice of lifestyle or be forced to live it.

I don't mean this to sound like im trashing your post--i really don't mean it to be that way. Just wanted to say that i dont think people here are "direspecting your beliefs" by wanting to see a GLBT character.

 

[dutch_treat]

MGM, of course I respect your beliefs and I for one will certainly not hate you, and I highly doubt your belief will get you banned; it's just the fact that everybody knows there are people believing in many different things and at the moment most of what's shown in the most popular American shows is as very one-sided look at society. I'm not a religious person at all, but I'm not offended if there are references to the Bible or Christianity in shows (and that happens a lot).

Of course it'll hurt if what you believe in is questioned, but I just feel it's wrong for the writers/producers/etc. to totally ignore a large part of the population just because the majority (?) of viewers will be offended by the introduction of a GLBT character.

These shows are meant to be for everyone and therefor there will always be something that one person likes and another dislikes, but I feel they have to try and be as unbiased as possible and wanting that is (like cSiNyFrEaK30 said) not meant to trash anyone's beliefs, but to see what you believe in reflected on the screen for once too.

If I have been disrespectful in any of my post I apologize, I try to respect everyone but unfortunately (and that goes both ways too ) respecting and understanding are two different things.

 

[PalmettoHunna]

It's a great idea that one of the recurring characters on the show is an openly GLBT character, but the only problem is that this is a show based on the life inside the NYPD and sometimes the mayor's office. If we know anything is that their just not that many openly gay people in these forums. It's sad but true, New York is a very libral city and state, but just the example of Elliot Spitzer and we he came out he had to resign his Senate seat.

It's homophobic it's ridiculous, but in a lot of civil service jobs that is how it is. I don't think anyone is actually does not think gay people exist in these jobs, but it is frowned upon and possibly dangerous to be openly gay. If they were to have a relative and something that would probably work.

I know I have said it before but I will say it again the nature of the show makes most people who come in to do just one episode victims or suspects...One could make the same arguement that with the exception of Hawkes evey character that is black on the show is a victim or suspect, but that is just how the show is formatted. I'm not condoning it, but honestly it is just not realistic no matter how much i want it to be true that any of the main cast on any of the CSI's will be openly gay. If they are in the closet and they want to show us Flack and Danny going at it Don's bedroom...Hell yeah I'm all for it, but that may be the only way it will happen, if it becomes the show's big secret.