(GLBT, LGBT, or whatever abbreviation you prefer, if you have a preference.) I opened a thread like this in the CSI:NY forum, and it was suggested to bring something similar over here for discussion about all three shows and the franchise in general. This isn't me trying to push Danny/Flack or any other same-sex pairing between two main characters. While I would expect that to come up, my purpose was simple: to discuss the general lack of non-heterosexual characters in the series. What are your thoughts about GLBT representation--or the lack thereof--on the CSI shows? What's good, what's not-so-good, and what would you love to see? This isn't just about the main characters but also the depiction of non-heterosexual people overall. (This is, of course, not the place to debate the merits of one ship over another--that belongs in Shipper Central--but general comments about the sexuality, etc of a specific character is fine.)
I'm glad you brought this over to the General section. I was chatting with speedcochrane last nightabout the fact that the majority of non-white character in Miami are either the killer the victim, or some sort of hinderence. I suppose the same can be said for gay, lesbian and all other non-heterosexual people on the shows. They're either victims, criminals or non-existent and I really don't know why. In a society where same-sex couples are now accepted and relatively common, it's surprising how under represented they are in the media. When they are represented, it's rarely in a good light. I appreciate we're talking CSI here, but just to reference, Law and Order: SVU is one of the biggest culprits for presenting homosexual people in a bad light. Stereotypes are also prevalent. The typical 'camp' gay guy who obsesses over his appearance, the 'butch' lesbian. All these images that were created in the '60's are still about and it's so difficult to find a show that's willing to present homosexuality as a normality. I've not watched NY as much as MD, or LV, but to be honest, I can't recall episodes involving homosexual people. Why? I really don't know. It's strange. I'd love to see a same-sex couple/person on the shows and not have it be a big deal - it's really not. As neighbors that are helping, as a lab-tech, a somebody other than a victim.
Ah, Fay, now you've got that song stuck in my head :lol: Does it get enough respect? Short answer: No. To begin with, it's barely present at all. In reality, odds are, you know, work with, live near, etc someone who is not 'heterosexual'. So why is it invisible in the shows? There is of course, Bobby Dawson from LV, who was supposed to have a scene in which we learn about his 'partner' and possibly a kid... but the scene got cut. I really wish they had left it in. When they do appear, that's usually the focus of their character. A person was killed because they were gay, or someone's lesbian lover is the main suspect, etc. I agree with adorelo, I'd love to see a same-sex couple/person that's a witness or such that just happens to be LGBT. It doesn't need to be a big deal, because it really isn't.
definitely no. although on csi there was one person suspect that was gay and that proved his innocence. one of my favourite lines actually, "the last place you would find me is in a womans bedroom, unless its to dicuss window coverings" :lol: but i cant remember any episode with a gay character that didnt fit the stereotypical profile. at least the original had an episode that focused on the transgender community, i forget the name but i really like that one. these shows are supposed to be real life(ish), so the characters should be representative of the kinds of people living in the world today. glbt are members of the community all over the world, it shouldnt be difficult to encorporate them into the storylines. you dont have to make a big deal about it, and you dont have to overdue the stereotype (there are shows where this works, like mark on ugly betty but not csi) its the same with racial and ethnic minorities, this franchise doesnt seem to do a good job of representing a diverse group of people in general.
I believe there was a Miami episode too where the suspect was in a gay relationship. But again, wasn't a main character. I also think GLBT recieves little to no respect on CSI. I guess CBS doesn't want to make a big stink with some needle-butt close-minded people out there, which is truly sad. GLBT aren't a secret--they're just as apparent around the globe as heterosexual folks and in my experience, the majority don't have a problem with it and shouldn't. It's a huge complaint of mine that the GLBT community has little to no representation on CSI. It's why I encorporate homosexual main characters in my fics. I think CSI still has a long way to go and really shouldn't because the world won't open up and swallow them.
I'm also glad you brought this topic over here, I'd seen it in the NY forum, but haven't started watching NY yet so couldn't really comment. My short answer is no, GBLT is not respected or represented enough in CSI (Vegas anyway, or the miami i've watched). I can't really remember distinctly any episode's where it's been noticeable enough for me to remember about a homosexual character. I actually think that it's really quite stupid, and not at all representative of the population. In terms of Vegas, I think it was the writers (correct me if I'm wrong) wanted to out Bobby Dawson as gay, but the scene was cut; and, as I mentioned in the Nick/Greg thread, I think the writer's are worried about the following slash ships get in general, whether it be Nick/Greg, Danny/Flack or whoever. I'm not sure why this appears to be, but I guess many of the general population would then just be like "oh yeh that gay cop on CSI, the gay CSI etc etc.' and the character would then be known as 'the gay one', and I guess they don't want the characters to be firstly known as the 'gay one', instead of for example Grissom as 'the bug man'. I think it would be fantastic for a franchise like CSI to have a homosexual main character, whether it be one of the ships that I like, or a new character( preferably not), or whatever. A show like CSI could easily incorporate a homosexual character, and keep it in the background like relationships (generally) are/were on the show. Even in terms of non-main characters, and victims, suspects etc. etc. there haven't been that many, and it's just not representative of the population. I've got the song in my head too now
The quick answer to this is no no no no no no no. Why hasnt there been a main character on either of the show's gay, bisexual, lesbian or even a transgendered individual... For thoese who do not get it being transgendered is not a sexualaity its realigning the outer self with the true self of the inside... Infact there could be a good pansexual, which is someone who finds gender or sexuality no barrier when it comes to love. Shouldnt then it be called GLBTP Personally i'd love to see Nick and Greg, Danny and Flack couples...:drool:
"Ch-ch-changes." And the reason they approached the topic was because they wanted to do something really different for their 100th episode. The GLBT community doesn't get enought respect, and this is true of more than just CSI in American TV. However, they have had at least one episode that I can think of where a character (who was a suspect, but not the murderer) was gay. It was "Iced", and Zach's alibi was that he was in LA visiting his boyfriend for a birthday.
Yeah, I know, that's why I commented on the abbreviation. I've seen it as both GLBT and LGBT, and when I looked it up, I saw various other abbreviations with more or less letters--it's all very complicated, and I don't want to step on toes, but I just went with a common abbreviation for simplicity's sake.
I'm glad to started this thread too, and yes, I must agree with all of you LGBT people are not treated properly if at all by CSI. I can recall a few episodes with LGBT characters but only because I'm always for the look out. Anyway, in almost all these episode gay people are either suspect, victims or murderers. The lesbian couple in S1 who had to kill because they couldn't afford to come out (I think they ran a school - those poor children!) Than we had this transgender killer in S1 and 2 (don't know his name, he was the guy who killed men and made it look like suicide). I don't think there were any LGBT episode in S3. In S4 Grissom took this case in a remote town and it turned out that a young man was killed because he had had an affair with his murderers father. This was actually done pretty well, but still another gay died because of intolerance and hate. In S5 there was Ch-Ch-Changes (as mentioned before - also rather well done, I think) and Iced. S6 was a downer again except for the male nurse in the finale who "car pooled" with his friend (I at least think it was meant to be a reference) and S7 was gay-less again. Don't really know about S8 since I haven't seen it yet. Anyway, I just started to get into NY, so I'm no expert there but I noticed that especially Danny sometimes thinks about asking whether a female victim had had a girlfriend. I find that quite nice for a change since people never ask for that. I just don't see the problem. Why not have a gay character. It's not like we see the straight characters' private life onscreen so what's the problem, saying Bobby's gay, he's in a relationship and has a daughter? No harm done. It's one or two lines, everyone's happy but no! Such a frustrating topic
What an interesting thread :thumbsup: I enjoyed reading all your opinions and I figured I should throw my own in here. I think GLBT doesnt get much attention on the show but I dont think I could say they arent getting enough respect. (Insert karaoke singing here) Some people may not be too comfortable with the GLBT because we all have our own beliefs and such. So you kind of have to look at it from both sides. Maybe TPTB dont want to focus on the subject because they dont want to offend anyone. This is a hard topic but I personally wouldnt mind seeing a character or case that involves homosexuality. But then again, I cant speak for everybody.
Ahh the reason why I said GLBTP is because someone that affliates as a pansexual/onminsexual isnt really recognised under the GLBT umbrealla... But yeah I totally agree with you theres tonns of abreveations out there... I also agree that the only potrail of a Gay man is either a victim or the killer. Sad right? I think that its about time, over time, that there is at least one or possibly two gay or bisexual characters in CSI as a whole unit. Yes regarding Bobby Dawson, yes he was going to come out to Grissom but that got cut. I think that Bobby D would make a great parent...
1. The idea just has not crossed "their" minds, due to lack of vision...:borg: 2. Too touchy a subject, and "they" do not want to deal with the backlash... :censored: 3. Such a "relationship" would be quite tricky to write-in well... Just my two copper jackets......
I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment . Some people are not comfortable with the way others lead their lives. I think if the show had a same sex couple be it regulars or recurring roles there would be too much flack from right wing conservatives. This is my opinion only. I think if state, city and federal governments were more accepting of GLBT rights we might see more of them on the shows. Until people are willing to accept the non-normal as normal we won't see it on the shows. Again this is my opinion only. Bottom line is TPTB don't want to offend the advertisers who pay for the ads which ultimately pays for the show.
Of course we have our own beliefs etc, but Gay men, gay women, bisexual people and transgendered folk are human beings with rights and passions. So just because the right wing establishment dont like it they govern what everyone sees and watches.... Sad really because people are human beings, We all buy things, We all eat, consume materials, go on holiday, go to school or go to work... Regardless of a persons gender or sexuality these things are set. Its sad that American tv is dictated by the right wing establishment. If the argument wasnt about a persons sexuality but their colour of their skin, then the right wing conservertives wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But at the end of the day, CSI is a tv show, which must reflect society and people in it... Its seems that if your gay then your going to be the victim... Just today I watched an episode of CSI Miami, where "an hollywood actor" was killed, and it turns out that he was at least bisexual. For me its sad that the minority, have the greatest say in other peoples lifes.