Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Part 2

[happyharper13]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

See a lot of people say GSR didn't take up much time, but it did. Grissom and Sara worked nearly every case together in Season 7 and whether it was referred to or not, it was GSR being pushed to the forefront.

Is there an actual case-by-case or episode-by-episode breakdown that would back that up? Because I definitely remember hearing that argument refuted. It seems silly to even debate something like that that could be so easily proven or disproved with statistics.

If you read my post, I said NEARLY every case, I didn't say every case. So sorry if my opinions are silly and until someone shows me the proof, I'll keep debating and when I find time in my hectic life to watch every episode in Season 7, I'll log it.

You clearly didn't quite get my post. I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm just asking for some proof. I know I've read this claim before and that I've seen it debated. I don't know whether or not it's correct, though I'm inclined to think that it's not. Regardless, there is a difference between stating something as fact and stating it as a personal opinion. If you say "Grissom and Sara worked nearly every case together in Season 7," that would be treated as a fact rather than as a personal opinion because, when it comes down to it, they either did or they didn't. In general, if someone wants to present something as a fact, rather than as just a personal opinion, they should make sure that what they're saying is actually the truth. I'm just wondering if you have any way of knowing if what you said is actually true, or if it's just a myth that's been around the block more than a few times on the Internet and has somehow just morphed into ill-based conventional wisdom.

Would any GSR supporters like to chime in on how much screentime Grissom and Sara actually had together during S7? I'm sure at least a few of you guys might have been paying attention to that.

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Ok, so I did quick, tentative research. Needs some more, but here are the basics.

There were 24 episodes in Season 7, I'm not count the four episodes that Grissom is not in.

Out of the 24 episodes (not amount of cases), Grissom and Sara worked together in 15 of those episodes. Yes, some of them were team cases, but they still worked together. So they worked nearly every case together or nearly every case that Grissom worked, as sometimes there are two cases per episode.

I'm not counting GSR moments in here, just the cases.

Like I said, this was a quick research and need to go to the DVDs, because a couple of the episodes not counted are questionable.

So there you have a tentative search, for now. Not a complete search, but getting there.

 

[Desertwind]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

And the point is? They liked working together, and were the same on the cases riveted to the whole scenerio, and they helped each other out, and were on the same page, thus the camraderie, He asked her what she thought, and visa versa and it was a beautiful thing to watch:thumbsup: If you work well with a co-worker you like them to be there to help solve the particular case at hand, I thought he worked well with all the team members "Nick "you were my best student" etc. he complimented them all at one time or another~

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

And the point is? They liked working together, and were the same on the cases riveted to the whole scenerio, and they helped each other out, and were on the same page, thus the camraderie, He asked her what she thought, and visa versa and it was a beautiful thing to watch:thumbsup: If yopu work well with a co-worker you like them to be there to help solve the particular case at hand, I thought he worked well with all the team members "Nick "you were my best student" etc. he complimented them all at one time or another~

The point is that Season 7 focused too much on GSR.

As for Grissom... Sara, Warrick and Greg were his favorites, not Nick. He always treated Nick the worse and that was not what Grissom was going to say in the first place and it doesn't make up for the horrible way he treated Nick throughout the seasons. Before you say I'm wrong, Quentin Tarantino himself said Grissom treated Nick like the bastard step-child. In any case, that's off topic, sorry.

The other point is, that Grissom and Sara dominated (so to speak) Season 7, GSR fans are always saying that there were only a few seconds here and there regarding GSR, yet, every time Grissom and Sara worked together it was because of GSR. Was there some reason Grissom couldn't work with anyone else? (Not counting cases that required the entire team). TV or not, working with her was wrong and that's why it was brought up at Natalie's trial. That's why they had a problem that time when Hank moved the bra and Sara was his girlfriend at the time. So you see in the show itself mentioned how wrong it is and how cases get thrown out, etc. etc.

And sorry, IMHO it was not a beautiful thing to watch.

 

[myfuturecsi]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

The other point is, that Grissom and Sara dominated (so to speak) Season 7, GSR fans are always saying that there were only a few seconds here and there regarding GSR, yet, every time Grissom and Sara worked together it was because of GSR

Plus they had one whole episode to themselves in season five-Committed.

 

[jafox]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

I could be wrong, but I can only recall 2 episodes from season 7 where there was more than one case, BTK1 and Toe Tags. In the latter, Grissom and Sara worked the same case, but didn't in the first. The rest of the episodes had one case worked by all the CSI's. And, as mentioned earlier, Grissom wasn't in 3 episodes, and Sara didn't work any case in Happenstance or Leaving Las Vegas, and was on a different case than anyone in Law of Gravity.
So, that's at least 7 episodes where they didn't work together, only 1 where they worked primarily together, and the remaining 16 where everyone worked the same case.
Just from memory, I counted 12 episodes when there was only one scene with just the two of them, and that's including the 2 when Grissom was gone but wrote the letter and sent the cocoon. Even the 3 episodes that I would consider 'GSR heavy' only had 2 or 3 scenes with them alone.

So, I don't think you can say that G&S had more screen time in season 7 than before, or that they worked more cases together than before. The biggest difference is that they were 'a couple', so their scenes were in a different context, and more controversial to some. And, let's be honest, controversial topics make for better drama and more interesting discussion, and more 'buzz', which is something CSI could use right now.

 

[GeekLove<3]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

The point is that Season 7 focused too much on GSR.

As for Grissom... Sara, Warrick and Greg were his favorites, not Nick. He always treated Nick the worse and that was not what Grissom was going to say in the first place and it doesn't make up for the horrible way he treated Nick throughout the seasons. Before you say I'm wrong, Quentin Tarantino himself said Grissom treated Nick like the bastard step-child. In any case, that's off topic, sorry.

The other point is, that Grissom and Sara dominated (so to speak) Season 7, GSR fans are always saying that there were only a few seconds here and there regarding GSR, yet, every time Grissom and Sara worked together it was because of GSR. Was there some reason Grissom couldn't work with anyone else? (Not counting cases that required the entire team). TV or not, working with her was wrong and that's why it was brought up at Natalie's trial. That's why they had a problem that time when Hank moved the bra and Sara was his girlfriend at the time. So you see in the show itself mentioned how wrong it is and how cases get thrown out, etc. etc.

And sorry, IMHO it was not a beautiful thing to watch.

Have you watched Grave Danger recently? because those two episodes prove otherwise. (pertaining to what you said about Nick/Grissom) (And btw, Quentin has only writtin a few episodes of CSI. So his word against the original writers and fans is nothing. JMO)

Grissom has always treated his co-workers with equal respect; even Sara. GSR have always kept their relationship away from work. The only time it's been mentioned was during Dead Doll, and the first few episodes of season 8.

myfuturecsi - Yes, they did have that episode just for themselves. And Jackpot was for Grissom and Cath.

GSR is barely mentioned now; I don't see why it's so hard to just ignore it.

 

[Desertwind]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Yes, in "Grave Danger" Grissom was feaked out by Nick being buried, and held his hand over the coffin and said 'Hang on Pancho" and he has always treated all the team members equally. I hope at this point in time the writers do bring in a "love interest" for Nicky, it's time. We need a little romance on the show, the only one that survived were Grissom and Sara, and that culminated in marriage. It would be awesome to see him with a pretty girl~

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

The point is that Season 7 focused too much on GSR.

As for Grissom... Sara, Warrick and Greg were his favorites, not Nick. He always treated Nick the worse and that was not what Grissom was going to say in the first place and it doesn't make up for the horrible way he treated Nick throughout the seasons. Before you say I'm wrong, Quentin Tarantino himself said Grissom treated Nick like the bastard step-child. In any case, that's off topic, sorry.

:

Have you watched Grave Danger recently? because those two episodes prove otherwise. (pertaining to what you said about Nick/Grissom) (And btw, Quentin has only writtin a few episodes of CSI. So his word against the original writers and fans is nothing. JMO)

Grissom has always treated his co-workers with equal respect; even Sara. GSR have always kept their relationship away from work. The only time it's been mentioned was during Dead Doll, and the first few episodes of season 8.

myfuturecsi - Yes, they did have that episode just for themselves. And Jackpot was for Grissom and Cath.

GSR is barely mentioned now; I don't see why it's so hard to just ignore it.

Yes, I have watched Grave Danger. Have you watched all the episodes? So one time, Grissom was there for Nick, ONCE! Catherine is the one that has always been there for Nick. Let's see Nick is accused of murder, Grissom does nothing to help him, just gives him crap about it. If it was his precious Sara or Warrick, he would have stopped at nothing to help them. Oh that's right, he did exactly that for Warrick. Warrick and Sara have gotten away with everything and if it was Nick he wouldn't have.

In 'Daddy's Little Girl', after Gordon's accomplice was murdered, he said to Nick: "so it's over?" :wtf: Is he serious? The man was buried alive for nearly 24-hours and it's over for Nick. He wouldn't have said that to Sara and Warrick.

Oh and don't forget that Sara herself said Warrick was Grissom's favorite.

I mentioned Quentin Tarantino because even he noticed how poorly Nick had been treated by Grissom and he isn't the only one that has noticed that.

OT again, sorry.

Jtd94, I looked at the episodes and summarys and there were more. I looked because I couldn't recall it all. I have it at home. Yes, a lot were team episodes, but they worked more than two cases together. I didn't count the 4-episodes that Grissom wasn't there, as they are irrelevant when talking about cases. However, the episode where he was leaving and did return had GSR moments in them.

And whether they were team cases or not, that is still nearly every case Grissom worked on she was involved in it. I say NEARLY, not every. Season 7 was Grissom/Sara heavy.

And when I get a chance, I will look at the DVD for Season 7.

However, none of that changes the fact that we've had to deal with this for 10 seasons and it would be nice if it would stop. Yes, I count 10 seasons because for 6 seasons it had been building up, though yes, it was rare.

 

[Adzix]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

everybody has their favorites, but i don't think you are fair to Grissom. you forgot to mention that he recommended Nick and not Sara for the promotion. or that he told Nick he was the best student he ever had. plus the Grave Danger episodes where he risked his life for him twice.

i think when it came to it, Nick or Greg weren't Grissom's personal favorites b/c they weren't like him at all. they were his complete opposites, Greg was very open and sociable and Nick wore his heart on his sleeve. which is perfectly natural for a human being. some people tend to like other people who are more like them. birds of a feather ...

even if Nick wasn't Grissom's favorite it made Grissom more human, and showed that even such a character as him does some things wrong sometimes. we all know how bad Grissom was in interpersonal relations. you can't have a crystal perfect character on a TV show b/c it wouldn't be realistic.

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

everybody has their favorites, but i don't think you are fair to Grissom. you forgot to mention that he recommended Nick and not Sara for the promotion. or that he told Nick he was the best student he ever had. plus the Grave Danger episodes where he risked his life for him twice.

i think when it came to it, Nick or Greg weren't Grissom's personal favorites b/c they weren't like him at all. they were his complete opposites, Greg was very open and sociable and Nick wore his heart on his sleeve. which is perfectly natural for a human being. some people tend to like other people who are more like them. birds of a feather ...

even if Nick wasn't Grissom's favorite it made Grissom more human, and showed that even such a character as him does some things wrong sometimes. we all know how bad Grissom was in interpersonal relations. you can't have a crystal perfect character on a TV show b/c it wouldn't be realistic.

You make some good points. However, now you knew that was coming :lol:, as for calling Nick his best student, that was actually Billy saying that. Grissom's orignal line was "You did a good job". Nope, doesn't seem to me he cared as much for Nick as he does for Sara, Warrick, and Greg. Let's see Warrick was his 'rock' and complimented him more than that. Sara got away with murder (figure of speach) and Greg and Warrick were like sons to him.

So he recommended Nick for the promotion, because Nick finally stood up to him or because of how Grissom felt for Sara?

Ok, let's face it, Nick wasn't really a trouble maker (so to speak) so maybe that's why, but anyway you cut it, he didn't treat Nick the same. It still doesn't change the fact, that when Nick was falsely accused of murder, Grissom had no time for him. Now I'm not saying Nick wasn't an idiot for sleep with the prostitute (because he was), but if it had been Warrick, Grissom's world would have come to halt and he would have done everything to clear him, which, of course, he does.

I'm not the only Nick fan that feels this way and even if I wasn't a Nick fan, I would still say it.

But then again, that could be because Sara was needy, Warrick got in trouble, Greg got under his skin and well, Catherine was his buddy. Nick was just there and maybe he Grissom didn't have to worry so much about him or coddle (for lack of a better word) him. Maybe, just maybe, Grissom was really in-love with Nick and didn't want to show it. :guffaw: (Sorry, couldn't refuse, I read Nick/Gil fanfics. I don't slash them, just read 'em).

I guess if you really think about it, he treated Hodges the worse. :lol:

 

[Adzix]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

You make some good points. However, now you knew that was coming , as for calling Nick his best student, that was actually Billy saying that.

well, an ad-lib doesn't make it less canon.

But then again, that could be because Sara was needy, Warrick got in trouble, Greg got under his skin and well, Catherine was his buddy. Nick was just there and maybe he Grissom didn't have to worry so much about him or coddle (for lack of a better word) him. I guess if you really think about it, he treated Hodges the worse

haha, agreed. and i think you as a fan of Nick have a right to feel this way. but, that's just the way TPTB thought it out.

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

You make some good points. However, now you knew that was coming , as for calling Nick his best student, that was actually Billy saying that.

well, an ad-lib doesn't make it less canon.

But then again, that could be because Sara was needy, Warrick got in trouble, Greg got under his skin and well, Catherine was his buddy. Nick was just there and maybe he Grissom didn't have to worry so much about him or coddle (for lack of a better word) him. I guess if you really think about it, he treated Hodges the worse

haha, agreed. and i think you as a fan of Nick have a right to feel this way. but, that's just the way TPTB thought it out.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. In any case, I am glad Billy did ad-lib, it gave us Nick fans something. Though I'm sure that was Billy telling George that, since George has said he learned so much from Billy. Anyhoo, I did like what Billy changed it too.

 

[jafox]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Jtd94, I looked at the episodes and summarys and there were more. I looked because I couldn't recall it all. I have it at home. Yes, a lot were team episodes, but they worked more than two cases together. I didn't count the 4-episodes that Grissom wasn't there, as they are irrelevant when talking about cases. However, the episode where he was leaving and did return had GSR moments in them.

I didn't say they only worked 2 cases together. I said, I think there were only 2 episodes in season 7 that had two cases (one they worked together, one they didn't) The rest of the episodes had only one case, so it's hard to not have them work the same case. But the gsr 'moments' were pretty minimal, yet memorable; and to me, that's what screen chemistry is all about.

OT. If you really think Grissom was a bad boss, you need to watch 'House'. It's like having a root canal most weeks, but I can't help myself. :lol: I'm pretty sure their writers are into viewer torture at the highest level, and they don't discriminate; no one is safe.

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Jtd94, I looked at the episodes and summarys and there were more. I looked because I couldn't recall it all. I have it at home. Yes, a lot were team episodes, but they worked more than two cases together. I didn't count the 4-episodes that Grissom wasn't there, as they are irrelevant when talking about cases. However, the episode where he was leaving and did return had GSR moments in them.

I didn't say they only worked 2 cases together. I said, I think there were only 2 episodes in season 7 that had two cases (one they worked together, one they didn't) The rest of the episodes had only one case, so it's hard to not have them work the same case. But the gsr 'moments' were pretty minimal, yet memorable; and to me, that's what screen chemistry is all about.

OT. If you really think Grissom was a bad boss, you need to watch 'House'. It's like having a root canal most weeks, but I can't help myself. :lol: I'm pretty sure their writers are into viewer torture at the highest level, and they don't discriminate.

Ooops, my bad! Sorry. However, there were more than 2 episodes that had two cases, but if I remember from what I have at home, there are at least 5-6 with multiple cases (not counting the 4 with no Grissom and the epi before and after those) Well, I going to try to confirm that.

Oh don't get me wrong, I actually love Grissom, even if I did want to smack him now and again, I've wanted to do that to Nick too. :lol: Grissom will always be one of my all time favorite TV Characters. I don't think Grissom was a bad boss, well not all the time, I just don't like the way he treated Nick. And yes, compared to Dr. House, Grissom was the perfect boss. :lol: