Danny & The Blue Flu

[fm62]

I don't think Hawkes was right, I think he contradicted himself. Danny was looking out for Lindsay and the baby - working for free won't provide for them.

If you don't mind me asking, are you British?

I'm quite confused and even horrified that it is considered acceptable for police personel (or anyone else for that matter) to lose their right to receive their pay, their livelyhood, because they have an important job. We are all now having to manage our budgets, due to the credit crisis and have to do without luxuries to pay for basic needs. Surely emergency services personnel are not luxuries, but to take them for granted is definately not respect.

As Danny and Flack have said in a previous episode, they have a job where they live from pay check to pay check, so cannot do without their salary. Why did the union not have this sorted out, that's why people pay their dues.

Regarding Danny walking out after getting to work, maybe he had be on duty for 3 or 4 hours already, they do shift work after all. He got the call, and went home, as soon as he knew the situation, though I would have processed the crime scene first, if it was me.

I must be the most evil person out. I was on strike and working to rule, lots of times in the 70s and 80s. If the public think people should work for free, I wonder if the whole union movement was a waste of time.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

[Poppet]

I don't think Hawkes was right, I think he contradicted himself. Danny was looking out for Lindsay and the baby - working for free won't provide for them.

I'd buy that reasoning if Danny were the sole breadwinner for the "family", but he isn't. In fact, Lindsay was busting her hump double-time to make up for his "stand."

And if you're taking a "stand", as Danny claimed, why not admit it openly instead of hiding behind a spectacularly lame illness excuse? If you're pissed that you're not being paid, why bother to show up at all? Why not skip work altogether? Because Danny is either an idiot, or he wanted his stand to be seen and came to the scene just so he could leave.

Besides, Danny whined to Stella that he felt unappreciated and disrespected. Never once did he mention doing it for Lindsay or the baby, nor did he mention implications for his future security. If he had, I might've sympathized, but it was all about how Danny wasn't being respected, and that's a weak excuse in light of Mac, Stella, and Flack's willingness to suck it up and cope.

I agree he should never have turned up for work at all - that all seemed kinda wierd and a pathetic way to introduce the idea that Danny was taking part inthe Blue-flu. Why he couldn't just phone in sick I don't know and I can only put it down to bad writing, like his 'family of cops'.

With respect to Dannys talk with Stella I didn't get the impression he felt only he was underappreciated, he felt they all were and he was willing do take the unpopular decision for all if them. Not paying someone for the work they are doing is being disrespectful to them IMO. As for Mac, Stella and Flacks willingness to cope, your willingness to cope with a paycut depends on how much you can afford it. The guy who attacked the deputy mayor said he risked losing his house due to the pay cuts - why should he be willing to accept that?


PS: Yes fm62 I am British and I was confused by the whole storyline aswell.

 

[La_Guera]

And if you're taking a "stand", as Danny claimed, why not admit it openly instead of hiding behind a spectacularly lame illness excuse? If you're pissed that you're not being paid, why bother to show up at all? Why not skip work altogether? Because Danny is either an idiot, or he wanted his stand to be seen and came to the scene just so he could leave.

Well I think that's because it was a 'united' stand (although not completely, obviously). Industrial action (official or unofficial) relies on a group of people taking that stand together. It's not uncommon to have 'flash' walk outs where a group of staff will agree to take action but will be notified when that action is to take place. It's all about safety in numbers and the fact it will make it harder for the brass to take punitive action.

The way I interpreted the scene was that Danny was one of those who'd agreed to take action and the phone call was informing him that the action was to start. It's not as though he was acting on his own, hence why I don't see it as selfish or see Danny as being an idiot.

Mm. I could swear the walkout was well underway by the time Danny did his volte face. Mac was discussing the effects of it with Stella before the deputy mayor fell, and Danny showed up to the scene. I got the impression that the action had been going on for most of that day, if not several days.

 

[JellyBelly]

Industrial action in the UK public services was much more commonplace in the early 90's. I can recall a situation where the fire service and ambulance service went on a series of strikes and the army had to be drafted in to cover. Other services came out in support by undertaking periodic 'work to rule' action. I was nursing at the time and those of us in a supportive union would stage periodic walk outs (although not me because my union was anti-strike). These would take the form of staged walk outs for a percentage of staff, with a minimum staying at work to hold the fort. So, to me, this storyline seemed realistic and not at all badly written, other than the whole Danny coming from a 'family of cops' thing.

 

[Poppet]

I am sensing cultural difference here between the British and Americans.......nothing wrong with that just interesting.

JellyBelly - I remember the army being drafted in aswell. Whilst I am not a big fan of industrial action, I feel it can sometimes be a bully tactic, I think it is justified if you are not being paid.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand officers are sworn to serve and protect and without them the city would go into chaos eventually and they should uphold their responsibility. On the other hand, the deputy mayor approved his own pay increase and then told the cops they would have to work without pay. I can see where cops organizing "The Blue Flu" would be deemed necessary to send a message that they are important to society and deserve to get paid.

I mainly just think the whole thing was written very, very badly.

Lindsay is a detective, she's been called Det. Moroe since S2 even though in S4 on she's been treated as nothing more than a glorified lab tech. She had empathy for Danny and defended his action to the point of insulting Hawkes but she wasn't affected enough to take the hard stance Danny did. WTF? Danny does take the action, but the way he does it is so OOC it makes no sense. Danny has talked about why they do what they do as cops and made comments about how little they are compensated and appreciated before so I don't think it's a stretch that he'd participate, but to just drop everything in the middle of a crime scene and not show any concern for his pregnant girlfriend who now is forced to work harder than ever to pick up the slack he's left behind? WTF?

And I'm not even gonna start on Danny being from a "family of cops." :scream:

They should have made an episode about this issue and maybe then they could've done a decent job with it. As it is it was just piss poor writing and there's no excuse for that.

 

[faith666]

I'm quite confused and even horrified that it is considered acceptable for police personel (or anyone else for that matter) to lose their right to receive their pay, their livelyhood, because they have an important job. We are all now having to manage our budgets, due to the credit crisis and have to do without luxuries to pay for basic needs. Surely emergency services personnel are not luxuries, but to take them for granted is definately not respect.

Well said! Public services like police, health workers etc. are limited in what they can do to stand up for themselves because of the jobs they do. I'm a student nurse and morally I couldn't strike, no matter how important the issue, but it's such a disadvantage to emergency services. I think emergency services get taken advantage of a bit because of this. Let it happen once and it'll keep happening.

And I agree that you put up with what you can afford. Mac, Stella, Hawkes and Flack are all single. Danny's going to be supporting a new baby (along with Lindsey of course) so why should he put up with working for free?

 

[miss_blue]

As much as I love Danny I voted for no. Basically his actions just did not make any sense to me. The phone call scene from the beginning was stupid. Plain stupid. If it was screenplayed another way, maybe I could have been sympathetic. But like that, never. His behaviour is inconsistent. In the not so long past he was a devoted cop. All he was trying to do is justice to the victims and the families regardless the price. And now suddenly, he comes to a crime scene knowing that the Blue Flu was running around, says to Stella that there is a job to do, and 20 seconds later he has the flu. At least have the decency to fake it. I think this was done intentionally to make viewers angry on Danny and his actions, instead of him always being the loved one so on and so forth. But everything was done so sloppy and in a hurry. I actually felt for Lindsay in this episode and thought to myself "Well done Lindsay".

 

[Top41]

As I just posted in the other thread I can only assume this story was meant for Flack and Eddie was ill the day of filming so they gave it to Carmine instead.

I don't think that's how they handle stories. In Hollywood, you have to be pretty damn sick to miss a day of work, and if you are, they don't just give your scenes to someone else. Also, this was in the spoilers from the beginning, so I think it's safe to say that this was Danny's storyline.

God knows I wanted to dropkick her over the lab table when she snippily reminded Hawkes that he wasn't a sworn officer of the NYPD.

Whereas I wanted to drop kick Hawkes over his pious attitude. Even though what he was saying was 'right' it wasn't appropriate for him to take it up wth Lindsay (although I understand he was probably damn frustrated at that point).

I actually sympathized with them both, though ultimately I agreed with Hawkes. Maybe Hawkes was getting a little personal by pointing out that what Danny should be focusing on is being able to support her and the baby, but it was a good point. Ultimately both Lindsay and Danny need to look beyond themselves from now on, and think of their child first. Danny didn't do that here.

That being said, it was big of Lindsay to not hold it against him, especially since she was still working away, essentially doing his job, too.

I'd buy that reasoning if Danny were the sole breadwinner for the "family", but he isn't. In fact, Lindsay was busting her hump double-time to make up for his "stand."

Exactly. That just makes him look like something of a douchebag. What kind of guy walks out on his job when he knows it's going to create more work for his pregnant girlfriend?

Besides, Danny whined to Stella that he felt unappreciated and disrespected. Never once did he mention doing it for Lindsay or the baby, nor did he mention implications for his future security. If he had, I might've sympathized, but it was all about how Danny wasn't being respected, and that's a weak excuse in light of Mac, Stella, and Flack's willingness to suck it up and cope.

It makes Danny look whiny and self-centered. Which are definitely two things he can be, as we've seen over the past five seasons. But he's never been so self-involved that he's sloughed work off on others or cared about being "respected" more than seeing the bad guys get theirs. I kind of wonder if that court case that got dismissed--and the criminal who got released (I don't think we know for sure it was a murderer, do we?)--will come back to bite him in the ass somewhere down the road.

 

[fm62]

I remember going on a march through Edinburgh, to support the firemen's strike action, but as I was in the Dept of Employment then, it must have been before 1984. Wasn't in the public sector in the 90s as we (BT) had been privitised by then, 1985 I think. I didn't strike much, if at all then, after the initial war between the new board and the unions. As we had a strong union and both sides knew how far to push before coming to a compromise, things generally worked out well.

I was lucky to have a strong union when I became too disabled to work. I could now be sitting here relying on benefits, but am managing well on my private pension. Believe me, I was very loyal to my company and was relieved to still be associated with them, by becoming one of their pensioners. However, their reaction to my health situation was not to show loyalty, but to terminate my contract. Nevertheless, my ties to them are strong and I still need that association.

ps.... nurses deserve more pay, my life has been easier to manage in the last few years due to their dedication to their patients and their hard work. They're worth their weight in gold.

 

[La_Guera]

And I agree that you put up with what you can afford. Mac, Stella, Hawkes and Flack are all single. Danny's going to be supporting a new baby (along with Lindsey of course) so why should he put up with working for free?

Well, pity for him that he fathered a child before he was financially prepared. Maybe he can sell the Harley. Everyone has bills to pay. Lindsay's going to be supporting a new baby, too, and even she, the most magnificent of self-involved narcissists, chose to stay on. If Danny were so concerned about the welfare of Lindsay and his child, then he should've persuaded her to stay home while he worked. I don't know how far along she is, but it can't be healthy for a pregnant woman to be working that hard for that long. Danny was in it for Danny and Danny's wounded ego.

The police deserve more money, and something needs to be done. The police union needs to organize and mobilize, but denying justice to the victims of crime(victims the officer promises to champion when he accepts a badge and a case) as Danny did is irresponsible and selfish. Hawkes is right. Danny could face sanctions or suspensions, which could severely affect his ability to support his child in the future. Danny, as usual, only thought as far as the end of his nose, and it's a less-than-endearing trait.

 

[Faylinn]

I have mixed feelings about it. I see both sides of the issue, and interesting points have been made in this thread so far.

For me personally, if I was in that position, I'd be torn - but I'd go to work. Knowing that I'm part of a team and that my job is to help people would prevent me from sitting at home. I would feel selfish for putting my own needs above the needs of the countless people that I had sworn to "protect and serve". I would feel guilty if I heard about someone getting hurt because I wasn't doing my job (or if someone got off because a defense attorney used my absence to get a case thrown out). I'd also feel selfish for putting more work on the backs of other people I care about, many of whom would be dealing with the same problems I was dealing with.

Of course, I'm not a cop and I'm not in this situation, so I can only be theoretical.

 

[Poppet]

As I just posted in the other thread I can only assume this story was meant for Flack and Eddie was ill the day of filming so they gave it to Carmine instead.

I don't think that's how they handle stories. In Hollywood, you have to be pretty damn sick to miss a day of work, and if you are, they don't just give your scenes to someone else. Also, this was in the spoilers from the beginning, so I think it's safe to say that this was Danny's storyline.

It's alright Top, I don't actually think this happened, I would just rather delude myself that it did happen this way than accept that TPTB wrote this episode with such disregard of whats gone before. Danny Messer, family of cops, my arse! :lol:

 

[Top41]

Well, pity for him that he fathered a child before he was financially prepared. Maybe he can sell the Harley. Everyone has bills to pay. Lindsay's going to be supporting a new baby, too, and even she, the most magnificent of self-involved narcissists, chose to stay on. If Danny were so concerned about the welfare of Lindsay and his child, then he should've persuaded her to stay home while he worked. I don't know how far along she is, but it can't be healthy for a pregnant woman to be working that hard for that long.

Those are exactly my thoughts as well. I like Danny a lot but I think he acted like an ass here. I do think it was sort of out-of-character...but reading some of the arguments here also makes me realize that it was very in character, too:

Danny was in it for Danny and Danny's wounded ego.

Bingo...or boom, as Danny would say. That's what it comes down to, and that does make him look like a brat.

The thing about the coming from a family of cops is just BS because it goes against the backstory we have for Danny, and that's annoying.

The police deserve more money, and something needs to be done. The police union needs to organize and mobilize, but denying justice to the victims of crime(victims the officer promises to champion when he accepts a badge and a case) as Danny did is irresponsible and selfish. Hawkes is right. Danny could face sanctions or suspensions, which could severely affect his ability to support his child in the future. Danny, as usual, only thought as far as the end of his nose, and it's a less-than-endearing trait.

I agree completely. Again.

It's alright Top, I don't actually think this happened, I would just rather delude myself that it did happen this way than accept that TPTB wrote this episode with such disregard of whats gone before. Danny Messer, family of cops, my arse! :lol:

Oh seconded! It's just such shoddy rewriting to fit a weak storyline. That's what really annoys me.

 

[fm62]

And I agree that you put up with what you can afford. Mac, Stella, Hawkes and Flack are all single. Danny's going to be supporting a new baby (along with Lindsey of course) so why should he put up with working for free?

The police deserve more money, and something needs to be done. The police union needs to organize and mobilize, but denying justice to the victims of crime(victims the officer promises to champion when he accepts a badge and a case) as Danny did is irresponsible and selfish. Hawkes is right. Danny could face sanctions or suspensions, which could severely affect his ability to support his child in the future. Danny, as usual, only thought as far as the end of his nose, and it's a less-than-endearing trait.

Ok this is my last comment on the matter, honest.

I'm not sure what the police union can achieve without public support. They cannot threaten to strike, as it appears that this would bring the public wrath upon them and working to rule would have the same effect, less cops on the streets. There is no incentive for the administration to bargain with the unions, when they have nothing to lose either.

Maybe I picked up this story wrong, but I got the impression that this wasn't about a pay dispute (Mayor got 10% rise) but that their pay had been stopped or somehow reduced from their contracted salary. If it was about a pay rise, allowances or overtime, then Danny has lost my support. This episode will cause mass confusion when it appears on UK TV in the coming months. I look forward to the reviews on TV forums here, to see what differences there are.