CSI: New York--'Point Of No Return'

[PerfectAnomaly]

I get that you dont like Lindsay or D/L, and I get that we all interperet things somewhat differently and I get a lot of what you say is only your opinion, but I thought a review was supposed to be somewhat objective. I dont see that at all in your reviews, your hate for the character shines through. You dislike the character so much, and you love the Danny character so much, you see every situation between the two of them as Lindsay's fault, you never look at things from her POV. That to me is not looking at things objectively. JMHO.

For the 847th time - a review is one person's opinion. Since you haven't taken anyone's advice and consulted a dictionary, here's the definition from Dictionary.com: a critical article or report, as in a periodical, on a book, play, recital, or the like; critique; evaluation. No where does it say anything about being "objective." Even so, Kristine has criticized Danny and praised Lindsay when she sees reason to do so. To me that's pretty damn objective.

 

[ErinElizabeth]

You say those things like she was totally unjustified though.

And this is where different points of view come into play. You sympathize with her on these things. I don't.

That's fair. Because I like her I take more of an empathetic approach.

I completely understand your points though and I do agree there were situations where they both could have handled things better. It's not that I agree with all of their actions but I can empathize with them.

For example, obviously I hate that Danny slept with Rikki and in my eyes cheated on Lindsay. (I know that one is really open for debate. Hell even the actors don't know. :lol But that's my take on it. Anyways, while I don't like it one bit I also understand that he was going through something major and was just looking for comfort wherever he could find it. It'd be one thing if things were fine and he was just being a scumbag and screwing around but he wasn't. He was going through PTSD so I can sympathize and forgive on that one.

And I know you say Lindsay wasn't there for him but we don't know that 100%. I blame that partially on the writers (and I know it also wasn't easy because of the strike). Even the actors were confused about what was going on. But I do think they gave us a little evidence, not nearly as much as I would have liked, that she was trying. She followed him in Child's Play and they seemed to get a long pretty well in that street luge episode. Then there was All in the Family where she covered for him and asked Flack for help. And then in RND she was asking him if he wanted to have lunch. That tells me that she was trying to connect with him but he kept pushing her away. And she even said she wasn't "good at this type of thing." Everyone has their faults. I still like her despite them the way you like Danny despite his.

Am I making sense?

 

[vegaslights]

Kristine, great review. I always love seeing your opinion and view on the episode. You always do a fantastic job!

 

[Top41]

That's fair. Because I like her I take more of an empathetic approach.

I completely understand your points though and I do agree there were situations where they both could have handled things better. It's not that I agree with all of their actions but I can empathize with them.

Absolutely. And I think sometimes seeing them handle things badly is what makes them more interesting as characters.

For example, obviously I hate that Danny slept with Rikki and in my eyes cheated on Lindsay. (I know that one is really open for debate. Hell even the actors don't know. :lol But that's my take on it. Anyways, while I don't like it one bit I also understand that he was going through something major and was just looking for comfort wherever he could find it. It'd be one thing if things were fine and he was just being a scumbag and screwing around but he wasn't. He was going through PTSD so I can sympathize and forgive on that one.

I definitely agree that that situation is nebulous and can be seen differently from either side. To me it seemed that Danny pulled away without clueing Lindsay in--he more or less dumped her without coming right out and doing the dumping. And maybe he was justified in that, if he felt she wasn't supporting him the way he needed to be supported during the ideal. It was obvious from her reaction that she was far more invested in the relationship at that point than he was. I think it might have helped the situation if she had approached him in a less confrontational way, but neither of them are the most mature people on the planet.

And I know you say Lindsay wasn't there for him but we don't know that 100%. I blame that partially on the writers (and I know it also wasn't easy because of the strike). Even the actors were confused about what was going on. But I do think they gave us a little evidence, not nearly as much as I would have liked, that she was trying. She followed him in Child's Play and they seemed to get a long pretty well in that street luge episode.

I took her comment in "Child's Play" as her chickening out. She let him walk off and then told Mac she wasn't "good at this kind of thing." And fair enough--at least she admitted it then rather than turning it around on Danny as she did later. But to me that indicated that she wasn't able to reach out to him in the way Danny needed her to.

Then there was All in the Family where she covered for him and asked Flack for help.

And that was a very kind thing she did for him--but I think that it's not insignificant that she did it without direct contact with Danny. I think Lindsay was more comfortable helping in that way and sending Flack to deal with Danny on an emotional level.

And then in RND she was asking him if he wanted to have lunch. That tells me that she was trying to connect with him but he kept pushing her away.

I think at that point for Danny it was "too little, too late"--he'd already turned to someone else. Not saying that he handled it very well, but he obviously was in a tailspin and was desperate to feel something--something he wasn't feeling with Lindsay.

And she even said she wasn't "good at this type of thing." Everyone has their faults. I still like her despite them the way you like Danny despite his.

Am I making sense?

Completely. I don't think Lindsay is the devil--but I do think she's got as many flaws as Danny does. I don't cut her as much slack, perhaps, but then, I'm hard on Danny when he acts in a frustrating manner, too, like in "The Dove Commission" or with the blue flu storyline.

 

[Carrieattheprom]

I wish we could have a calm debate about these things without things turning ugly. I'm reminded of the Dave Mason song We Just Disagree:

"So let's leave it alone,
'Cause we can't eye to eye...
There ain't no good guy,
There ain't no bad guy,
There's only you and me,
And we just disagree!"

Getting back on topic, I enjoy reading Kristine's reviews, even when I don't always agree with what she says.

I really don't see what the point would have been in Danny telling Lindsay about his stupid stunt(though maybe that's what 'Same old, same old,' meant, for all I know.). She's way out there in Montanna and pregnant, what good would it do to scare the living daylights out of her like that?

I'm still not a fan of the pairing, and think the wedding was rushed to the extreme. Would it really have been that horrible for Lindsay to have a baby out of wedlock?

 

[Little_Peaches]

I enjoyed 5.18 - I did myself note that it was nice to see the mention with regards to Lindsay (as I pointed in DL thread) rather than the forget she's disappeared for a few episodes. IMO they seem to be solidifying the 'family' situation they have going on on the 35th floor.

I didn't see the need for him to tell her that he was a bit of an idiot almost getting himself killed. What good would that do? Not the information you share over the phone. Face to face, reassure that you are not injured. Yet :lol:

Not to start an argument so please do not take it this the wrong way, but Kristine I don't think you gave particularly good examples of 'criticizing'.

Complaining? Probably but not criticizing. Lindsay asking not to be called Montana in MM is her complaining to Danny she doesn't like the name, not her questioning his ability to do something. Complaining that she was stuck with the jobs no one wanted in OH - not saying that Danny was incapable of doing it himself. I'd give you 'I know you' to an extent but I think that may have been taken out of context - did anyone really know what was going on up until the actors got the script? Probably not. :lol:

Like I said, not causing an argument or starting a massive debate just MO.

Again - I really enjoyed the ep - Sid was great. Pete should stick to being my idealistic man with a bass guitar and Ashlee wasn't too shabby at all (suprisingly).

And last but not least - Marty, what the hell happened to you? Great performance, truly a desperate man at the end of his tether. The exchange between him and Sid had me choked up.

 

[Half]

First of all, great review, Kristine. And I have to get into this review debate for a moment, because I review CM episodes and write a blog for my cousin's softball team (If that isn't biased I don't know what is).

Yes, Kristine's reviews do reflect her own opinions. That is what a review is. When you write one, you're bound to annoy people that don't believe the same things you believe, but you write them knowing (or hoping) that your readers understand that they are your opinions, not what everyone else is supposed to think.

That being said, I think a few fans are being a bit hard on Kristine here. If you do not approve of what she says, do not read what she writes. There's no need to rant at her for being biased against Lindsay or D/L or whatever, because it's your choice to read the reviews. I don't agree with some of the things that she says, because I have my own opinions on things, but am I going to go into a debate with her over how she's wrong and shouldn't write those things? No, because it's her review. If I didn't like it, I'd write my own. It's not fair to chew Kristine out for being "biased". In fact, by doing so, you are revealing your own bias and are doing the exact thing you don't like her doing.

She's not the "voice of the fans". She's not going on TV and saying how everyone hates D/L. She's just writing a review, so calm down.

Maybe I wasn't supposed to chime in here, but this type of thing bothers me. Sorry if I overstepped.

 

[Top41]

Not to start an argument so please do not take it this the wrong way, but Kristine I don't think you gave particularly good examples of 'criticizing'.

Complaining? Probably but not criticizing. Lindsay asking not to be called Montana in MM is her complaining to Danny she doesn't like the name, not her questioning his ability to do something. Complaining that she was stuck with the jobs no one wanted in OH - not saying that Danny was incapable of doing it himself. I'd give you 'I know you' to an extent but I think that may have been taken out of context - did anyone really know what was going on up until the actors got the script? Probably not. :lol:

She was complaining about his actions--hence being critical of him. However you want to put it, Lindsay often comes down hard on Danny. My original point in the review was that he obviously doesn't feel like he can be open with her about the truth of what happened, which is just a sign of how the two still don't communicate well with each other.

And last but not least - Marty, what the hell happened to you? Great performance, truly a desperate man at the end of his tether. The exchange between him and Sid had me choked up.

Jonah Lotan did a great job in this episode--Marty really changed since the last time we saw him in season two! I thought Robert Joy was great in that scene as well. You could tell how crushed Sid was by the whole thing.

First of all, great review, Kristine. And I have to get into this review debate for a moment, because I review CM episodes and write a blog for my cousin's softball team (If that isn't biased I don't know what is).

Yes, Kristine's reviews do reflect her own opinions. That is what a review is. When you write one, you're bound to annoy people that don't believe the same things you believe, but you write them knowing (or hoping) that your readers understand that they are your opinions, not what everyone else is supposed to think.

That being said, I think a few fans are being a bit hard on Kristine here. If you do not approve of what she says, do not read what she writes. There's no need to rant at her for being biased against Lindsay or D/L or whatever, because it's your choice to read the reviews. I don't agree with some of the things that she says, because I have my own opinions on things, but am I going to go into a debate with her over how she's wrong and shouldn't write those things? No, because it's her review. If I didn't like it, I'd write my own. It's not fair to chew Kristine out for being "biased". In fact, by doing so, you are revealing your own bias and are doing the exact thing you don't like her doing.

She's not the "voice of the fans". She's not going on TV and saying how everyone hates D/L. She's just writing a review, so calm down.

Maybe I wasn't supposed to chime in here, but this type of thing bothers me. Sorry if I overstepped.

You didn't overstep at all. Thanks to you--and everyone else in this thread--for your perspective. Definitely some interesting discussion going on here!

 

[danny's girl]

what's the deal with this writer of the reviews?
All she does is criticize lindsay monroe a.k.a. anna belknap.
it's not fair to only concentrate on the negatives of this character than the clear positives that she possesses.
If this writer thinks that love is not what csi should be about, then why does she praise flack and angel's team up?
I mean, it's been what, 2 seasons already that she's constantly giving anna belknap bad reviews. what the heck is her problem with anna or lindsay being together with danny. I praise anna belknap for carrying her character so well despite the hardships of her real life pregnancy.
Sorry if i offended the writer but it's just not fair to me and i'm sure for some too.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

what's the deal with this writer of the reviews?
All she does is criticize lindsay monroe a.k.a. anna belknap.
it's not fair to only concentrate on the negatives of this character than the clear positives that she possesses.
If this writer thinks that love is not what csi should be about, then why does she praise flack and angel's team up?
I mean, it's been what, 2 seasons already that she's constantly giving anna belknap bad reviews. what the heck is her problem with anna or lindsay being together with danny. I praise anna belknap for carrying her character so well despite the hardships of her real life pregnancy.
Sorry if i offended the writer but it's just not fair to me and i'm sure for some too.

She gives Anna Belknap bad reviews because she does not like her acting. That's not unfair, that's just being honest. If Anna does something well, Kristine praises her. It just so happens that Kristine doesn't believe she does a good job all that often. That's not unfair, that's just being honest. Really, people. Kristine doesn't owe anyone anything in her reviews other than an honest interpretation and critique of the show. That's what she gives people. If you don't agree with it, that's fine; but people continually whining about her being "unfair" and "biased" and whatever else instead of providing rational, intelligent discussion is just gotten beyond ridiculous.

 

[Elwood21]

what's the deal with this writer of the reviews?
All she does is criticize lindsay monroe a.k.a. anna belknap.
it's not fair to only concentrate on the negatives of this character than the clear positives that she possesses.
If this writer thinks that love is not what csi should be about, then why does she praise flack and angel's team up?
I mean, it's been what, 2 seasons already that she's constantly giving anna belknap bad reviews. what the heck is her problem with anna or lindsay being together with danny. I praise anna belknap for carrying her character so well despite the hardships of her real life pregnancy.
Sorry if i offended the writer but it's just not fair to me and i'm sure for some too.

Two copper pennies here, cos I'm bored and perplexed and utterly intrigued.

Mebbe it's just me, but I like to read as widely varied opinions as possible about things, to go hmmm about things I didn't see or hadn't thought of, or simply to see how other people felt and understood things (and that includes the comment above). It's interesting, and I'm always curious.. It would be a very very very bland and boring world if nothing challenged one's own views and assumptions, about anything at all.

I don't think the reviews are one-sided, and I don't think they should be without personal flavour. I like reading them whether I agree or not, because it's another take on the show. I like reading all the reviews members post in a given week for the same reason.

I understand people are very passionate about the show, and especially about ships above all else. I think that's fantastic actually, because a spirited discussion is far more interesting than an indifferent one. I mean, that is what a chat forum is kinda for, no?

The 'positives' and 'negatives' about the show and the characters as displayed on a weekly basis are always gonna be subjective. It's out there for public consumption, and so are the views on this site. That means that the 'positives' and 'negatives' of the reviews and the posts of all members are equally out there to debate for those who choose to participate.

Not fair? I've never seen so many opportunities to counter or comment, in agreement or discord (which btw you've availed yourself to but perhaps not really taken advantage of).

If people check into a chat forum only for affirmation, wtf is the point...?