"Crime After Crime" Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

I didn't like the fact that there was no hint of what was to come. You need a little something early on that makes you go "Ah ha" later. But even if I could buy the fact that Vega would take matters into his own hand, it would be more believable that he would shoot them or hire someone or something. All of those murders were just so elaborate and kind of weird...kind of makes it unbelievable.

It's too bad they didn't make all of the murders revenge for child killing. Two of them were...that would have made me feel a little better about Vega...if he was killing child killers.
 
I thought it was a great episode, even if the final quarter seemed a little rushed. I DID think it was going to be Squeegle too- glad I'm not the only one!

The only thig I didn't like was the choice of Vega. Adding the comment from Brass about Vega having a hard side with people who don't give him what he wants seems a little unbelievable, especially in comparison with what we've seen of him in the past. That line felt like a last minute convenient excuse and it didn't really fly with me. As others have mentioned, someone like Cavalier would have been a little easier to believe. And ultimately, there have been WAY too many dirty cops in Vegas now; hopefully they put that angle to rest now.

Also, I'm in agreement with the others wondering about Brass lately- WTF? Did that whole Ray thing really affect him that much, or is he back on the bottle? Very odd.
 
I'm not sure what to say about this one. I thought the whole thing was weird; from the character interactions (Brass and DB, Nick and DB at the end, Cath and Vartann) to the dirty cop/death bed confession theme; and the ending was more incredulous than shocking for me.
Seriously, Vega? Who the heck thought of that? We haven't seen him in forever, and then he shows up with a long history of being a dirty cop? Oy vey. This just seems to me the antithesis of continuity. Poor guy. I know we have new writers, but shouldn't they at least know the history of a character before they write about him? Oh, yeah, I forgot; this is not a character driven show. :rolleyes:
And, Brass' affect throughout was just...odd.

The most enjoyable moment of the night came with DB and Greg's 'not a date' scene. That was pretty cute.

I will add, they better hire a Latino actor, or an African American, or an Asian actor to the main cast. We've lost Warrick, Archie (apparently), and now Vega. Yes, we have the new sheriff (who continues to impress me), but there is very little diversity anymore on CSI. I'm ready to campaign for Regina King as Marg's replacement. (Sorry, that's a different thread.)

B- from me. The story was interesting, the whole cast was involved (Sara was there, Yay!, tho she was sorely underused), but everything else about it just seemed kind of strange.
 
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It was good. Not great, good. A good CSI episode in general. The way the team pulled together, the cohesiveness of the team and the seamless transition of DB to take control of the team. Not to say that Cath didn't have control, but DB doesn't have Ray to deal with. But, that's another thread, another topic.

But with the good, comes the bad. Well my two (and it seems everyone else's) beefs....

WTF :wtf: With Vega! He was a straight shooting cop from season 1 until now and all of a sudden, he's dirty? Where the hell did that come from?? Again, he hasn't been on the show for a while, why bring him back only to have him dirty. And FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!! PLEASE, don't make Vartann next! Even if he's not with Catherine any longer, PLEASE, let there be one decent cop on the show. Brass already is walking a thin line with the Ray debacle, don't let Vartann be next!!
Back to Vega. To me, he symbolized all that was good about Vegas cops. He had a family, worked a tough gig in narcotics and survived, he got along with everyone in CSI and spoke Spanish so he could communicate with some of Vegas's residents. I mean what better cop to have (besides Vartann to unbeknown to us had a drinking problem :wtf:, more on that in a bit) So I'm failing to see how all of a sudden Vega is dirty or has been dirty all along??? That's some serious continuity jump there people :confused:

So, Vartann has or had a drinking problem? More things that the new writers bring to light and why didn't Catherine know about that sooner. Why are they now just working partners and no longer communicating like people in a 'relationship' do. Oh that's right, they aren't in a relationship. At least according to the writers and to the interview with Alex Carter. That's a big disappointment because Vartann was also the near perfect cop. And he was a recurring character so there wasn't going to be a relationship overload. But the more he's on the show, the more conflicting or how shall I say, new to the viewer information about him. Something I don't get either.
I guess it's a way to wrap up things come Marg's departure, but it's just so out of the blue to have him have a drinking problem, and more importantly for Cath not to know about it.

Overall, the episode was good, not great, but good. I'm also with everyone that this season is one of the better compared to S10-11.
 
I wonder whether we are meant to believe Vega had only turned dirty in the last few years I.e when he killed the informant.

I like how the Sheriff helped out as well, I always prefer the episodes where the cops and csi's actually work together.

I don't think Vartann's drinking problem was news to Catherine, I'd imagine that'd be something that Vartann would have shared when they were dating especially given he's been sober for over eleven years. It still amuses me how easily Cath got him to tell-all.
 
I concur that the episode was decent. The ending was a little too much out-of-the-blue. I certainly think the dirty cop angle has been played out already. If they needed to get rid of a character permanently, why not have him shot in the line of duty (off-screen inference since we've had so many already), take a job elsewhere but only mention it in passing conversation, (a la Ray), etc... Now that Brass is evidently going to "walk the line" of ethics, any more dirty cops will just be overkill.

I've always liked Brass, and I hoped that they wouldnt travel down this road, even though I am not surprised after the Ray coverup assistance. I'm sure this was written in or at least plotted out months ago, but I hope it ends soon before Brass gets worse.

I too miss Squeegel. I hope they revisit that story soon without breaking continuity just to fit him in. Not that I want it to drag out like Natalie or Haskell, but he was an interesting character.

I hope that Greg and Morgan develop soon. After the disappointment of seeing Grissom and Sara marry and him disappear; and the Hodges and Wendy fizzling out, it's time a couple got together and stayed that way, even if it meant splitting into different shifts. I mean, look at how the team split before and yet most the actors all still got somescreen time due to the spillover of shift hours.

Overally, I'm too hooked on this show. I'll still be sitting here watching every episode every week that there's a new one, and wishing they would stop showing re-runs in the middle of a season. I stay on the edge of my seat week after week from the minute one episode ends until the next one begins :)
 
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jafox said:
I will add, they better hire a Latino actor, or an African American, or an Asian actor to the main cast. We've lost Warrick, Archie (apparently), and now Vega. Yes, we have the new sheriff (who continues to impress me), but there is very little diversity anymore on CSI. I'm ready to campaign for Regina King as Marg's replacement. (Sorry, that's a different thread.)
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I believe I read somewhere that Archie will be in a future episode. I don't think they'd get rid of him completely. Plus the new ballistics woman looks ethnic. Not sure what Ethnicity she is exactly, but she's definitely got some kind of Ethnic background. I actually really liked her.

And I agree about the Sheriff. I like her.
 
Sinclair said:
I wonder whether we are meant to believe Vega had only turned dirty in the last few years I.e when he killed the informant.

I don't think Vartann's drinking problem was news to Catherine, I'd imagine that'd be something that Vartann would have shared when they were dating especially given he's been sober for over eleven years. It still amuses me how easily Cath got him to tell-all.
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I agree, since they mentioned the informant thing happened "a few years ago", it was maybe even meant to coincide with the amount of time that we haven't seen Vega, since the end of S9.

And they didn't mention the complete circumstances around the informants death, so maybe Vega didn't kill him in cold blood, but that something else happened. I don't want him to be "dirty', just misguided.

Catherine didn't seem surprised when Vartann mentioned it, so I believe she knew he was a reformed alcoholic, and had no problems with it. But the looks she gave him were cute, and he definitely fell for them. :)
 
Shocker! Not much else to add to this really, except to say I too am very pleased with DB. He fits in to CSI in ways that LF never did. Not wanting to open up that old debate again, but I liked LF a lot - but Ted has something very unique about his acting. I honestly winced a little when it was announced that he was becoming lead, boy was I wrong.

There is a little bit of the father figure in the character of DB that I like. He is excellent with all the age groups, but you never get the sense that he isn't the boss, in the same way I felt with Grissom.

This season of CSI has been very refreshing.

As to Brass... I love him; he’s one of the real honest reasons why I stayed with the show for all these years. His interactions with Grissom were hilarious, his dark-humour with people is legendary... and yet.... lately... I'm not so taken. It's not like he hasn't had a pretty awful life so far? Divorce, something bad happened in LA, kid ends up a prostitute, shoots a fellow cop by mistake and plenty more... his life has been hard, yet even so, he managed to still stay the Brass we knew. I really hope this is building to some form of conclusion. Why is he so hostile to DB? That I haven't managed to figure out yet.

All in all a really good episode.

EDIT: Sorry forgot to mention, the Sheriff is class!
 
I'm a little confused. What exactly did Brass do that brings into question his return to evil?

Is it because he said the mom got what she deserved because she was guilty of murdering her 12 year old daughter but the prosecutor wouldn't prosecute? If that's the case then shouldn't Vartann be on the path to the dark side too? After all, he seemed pretty satisfied when he found out that Kevin Fetzer got his face beat in with an arcade ball. He even says "there's some justice in that". And then he even goes on to say that after what Fetzer did to that little boy, he wouldn't have waited 20 years. Sounds like he's not shedding any more tears for Fetzer than Brass did for Darlene Crocker. Vartann has a son and Brass has a daughter so yeah, no love.

Is it because Brass and Richardson were drinking buddies and when told his friend was a suspect, he defends him? Based on how Brass has reacted in the past or how anyone would react when told someone they respect might be bad, this seems pretty normal. Again, not sure how this puts Brass down that dark path.

To me this episode was about how cases like these affect the detectives. Brass makes a statement that all cops (including Vartann) have a list they carry in their heads but they never act on it. Brass does know it’s bad to go vigilante. And this coincides with what he said in “All for our Country”. You might think the thoughts, you might even confide in someone like DB or Grissom that you’re not sad when someone bites it, but you don’t do the crime. Brass's reaction at the end wasn't "yay, Richardson had this list and Vega was full of awesome for carrying it out." He was sad and sickened by what happened. Unless the writers have some master plan to throw Brass under the bus, I didn't see this as Brass being dirty or rogue or anything else but a jaded homicide detective.

Why is he so hostile to DB? That I haven't managed to figure out yet
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Why did he and Grissom butt heads? They both come at the same problem from different angles with different perspectives and until they figure each other out, we'll probably see more of it.
 
beaujolais said:
Why did he and Grissom butt heads? They both come at the same problem from different angles with different perspectives and until they figure each other out, we'll probably see more of it.
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That's a good point actually. The first season they butt heads a lot, I'd forgotten that.

Maybe it's just me, but Brass just hasn't had that same spark he had in the last few seasons, in fact, I'd be so bold as to say, he hasn't been the same since Grissom left. I'm probably just looking too deeply. :thumbsup:
 
I think Brass' words (though not that different from Vartann's) take on a different meaning for some viewers because of him covering up for Ray. I love Brass and I'm still upset with tptb for having him tampering with evidence to cover up what Ray did. That will never not bother me.
 
I agree this episode left a weird taste in my mouth...

What has happened to Brass? His interactions with DB were very, very unsettling...

I found the scene between Greg and DB cute ;)

Glad we got to see everyone again. I'm really liking the Sherriff!

I squealed when Cath and Lou had multiple scenes together, but of course it wasn't what everyone's wanted. I was happy they still have some sort of connection--Lou's drinking--though it's not definite on where they stand ? I guess just friends and that's where it's left?

All in all, bringing in Vega was really random and out of the blue. I remember liking him in the older episodes. But I can't remember the last time we saw him sooo again, too random sorry :p

I can't even rate this one. Idkk c+ ? Like someone else said, too hooked give up or really banter lol. Definitely too hooked :D
 
GregNickRyanFan said:
I think Brass' words (though not that different from Vartann's) take on a different meaning for some viewers because of him covering up for Ray. I love Brass and I'm still upset with tptb for having him tampering with evidence to cover up what Ray did. That will never not bother me.
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Yep, at least that's a major difference to me. What Vartann said lots of people say and most probably when the time comes it's just words. But with Brass is different because he already hid evidence in a murder. So his words take on a whole different meaning and have more weight. This episode, for me, showed that Brass is walking a very thin line in thinking about doing his job and upholding the law as it is and what he considers the real justice. I think it would've been more interesting, if in fact they will go all the way and make Brass step into the dark side, if they hadn't already made so many cops be dirty. If it were only Brass in the end it would've had a much greater impact. But now if they do it it's overkill on top of making a lot of his fans angry.

The episode was good. I really was not expecting Vega to be the killer and was pretty confused as to what was happening because I just couldn't believe it was him. I wasn't really attached to the character so I appreciated the shock factor because after so many seasons and discovering spoilers that rarely happens to me anymore lol.

Vartann and Catherine...oy! Much better scenes than the last episode but still.... Goodness the CSI franchise just can't write a decent romantic storyline. I really thought these two were going to be the exception to the rule, but it's definitely not the case. There's no clear indication as to what the crap happened between them or what is happening now and that annoys me so much. Meh...

I give it a B+.
 
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