Can we chill a bit on the criticism of TPTB?

Top41

Top41

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
Lately I feel like every thread I go into has some variation of "OMG, I hate what TPTB are doing!" or "They are so stupid for doing x, y or z!!!" or "They have ruined my life with plot a, b or c!"

Not everyone is going to like every plot twist. Not everyone is going to love every character or every episode. But at the same time, overall the collective "TPTB" (a phrase/abbreviation I admit I'm coming to loathe :p ) bring us this show we love to talk about and dissect week after week. They're not devils. They're not evil. And to my knowledge, they haven't peed in anyone's cornflakes. (Though if they have done that, please, do let us know. :lol: )

The negativity of late is bringing this forum down a bit, and making it a somewhat less fun place to post. Not saying that people aren't free to criticize--of course you are. But at the same time this constant, "I hate TPTB!" is getting so old. I think people forget when they use the blanket "TPTB" that they're taking about the writers who bring us the show every week, and who have penned some very great episodes. I think they also forget that there are many more people who have a say in the show than just those writers and even EPs (namely, the network).

So let's try to dial it back a bit. And let's try to remember the good things TPTB have brought.

I'll go first:

Danny Messer and Don Flack--two of my favorite characters on any television show today. These two are awesome--together or apart (but especially together :devil: )

"On the Job," "Run Silent, Run Deep," "Raising Shane," "Snow Day," "Child's Play," "All in the Family," "Admissions," "Point of No Return"--that's probably not a complete list, but the episodes above are just damn fine hours of television

Flack's one-liners--seriously great comedy there, and such spot on writing (and of course, fantastic delivery by Eddie Cahill)

That's what I'm starting with for now. Anyone else?
 
Last edited:
*nods* Absolutely. I think we've gotten a bit hypercritical of TPTB (who I should perhaps start calling TPIC - the peeps in charge - if the Toppy one is tired of TPTB ;)), and it's not really fair. We kind of lump things that we think are done badly, things we don't like and things nobody can control into one big mess and blame it all on 'TPTB' indiscriminately.

But they have brought us good stuff. I shall contribute to the list:

Adam. Nuff said. :D

And the slashy subtext, but I think that's mostly just a bonus. ;)
 
I have read over my posts from yesterday and I have been guilty of being critical as you say Top 41, and I guess it is sometimes easier to be negative that give praise when praise is due!

I agree with you on the storylines you noted, excellent episodes and like I said in the "What keeps you watching CSI NY" thread, for a few bad storylines I am rewarded with good ones. Of course there are more as you say and I am confident more to follow.

I have been watching since Season 1, and I am still watching, so obviously the directors, producers, writers, and actors are doing something right.;)

In these times of recession and with the sometimes predictability of real life I need to escape from that sometimes and Saturday evenings, Channel 5, around 9.30 pm here in the UK is where I go religiously! :)

For me Gary Sinise as Mac Taylor, even when I don't necessarily agree with his actions I love him, stroke of genius casting IMHO, Gary is Mac and is as comfortable and realistic whilst wearing Mac's shirts as I want him to be. So a big thank you for that. :)
 
Oh, this could be a long list! :lol: I will only choose a few things I like:

- Funny episodes like 'Sex, Lies and Silicone'. Still can't stop laughing whenever I only think about some certain moments. :lol:
- Interesting cases. When I started watching the show, I thought NY has the most interesting cases from all the crime shows I had watched until then.
- A great team. There's really no one in the team I don't like. They're all awesome!
- Great team moments. Like the one in Heroes. Or at the end of CotP, where everyone appeared at the hospital to see how Flack is. Or at the end of the episode where Lindsay told Danny they were going to have a girl (forgot the title, sorry).
- Danny and Lindsay. And all the wonderful DL moments. :adore:
- Characters with interesting background: Danny and Louie/The Tanglewood Boys, Lindsay and her secret from Montana, Hawkes and his reasons for stopping to work in a hospital, Flack and his sister, Adam and his father, etc, etc
 
The team moments are definitely ones I like, too. The ending of "Heroes" and Danny getting everyone a bug dinner at the end of "Fare Game" come to mind.

And "Trapped"! How could I forget "Trapped"?? Desperate Danny stuck in a panic room after he pushes a big red button (really, would anyone but Danno do that? :lol: )...with no air conditioning so he just has to take off his shirt. (Thank you for that, Peter Lenkov. Seriously, thank you. :D ) And then when the little minx gets taken hostage at the end, he's not scared or worried about that--he's mad because the guy could have opened the door the whole time! :lol: Great episode.

Oh, and "Danno." Every time Flack calls Danny "Danno" it makes me smile. I'm also fond of "Dan" and "Mess." Flack's nicknames for Danny, whether they come from Eddie Cahill improving or lines in the scripts, are made of win. :D
 
Oh, I forgot about the bugs! :lol: And Flack's face! I think his face in that scene said more than words! And Lindsay eating the spider. I think this is another awesome team moments, that's true.

About Trapped- I still don't get how he could simply push that button!!! :lol: He sees a button and has to push it! But really, who would have been better for getting stuck in a panic room? I think Danny was perfect for the episode.

I also loved Stealing Home. The episode was amazing! I still can rewatch it and it still makes me smile. I totally love how obsessed Lindsay got with the case and how determined she was to get answers! I think this is and always will be my favourite episode for her!

Also I love CSI:NY's bad guys. James Vackner- boy, when you looked him into the eyes, it didn't surprise the guy didn't have a problem with killing for no reason! Such a cold! And Shane Casey! I think Shane Casey is my favourite of them all. He was so believable. He was cruel in 'Hung Out To Dry' and anyway you could feel sorry for him. That was an awesome storyline.
 
I agree, Top. It does get a bit carried away, and we have to be reminded that these fantastic writers bring us a show that all of us have come to admire over the last five seasons. They've given characters which we have followed, scripts that are really spectacular and most of all, a CSI show in the franchise that I see totally different (in a positive way) from the other two.

I really have enjoyed some of the episodes they have given us over the course of five seasons: "Blink", "What You See is What You See", "Run Silent, Run Deep" and those are just three out of probably 15 that are my absolute favorites.

The fact that they have given us characters such as Adam, Flack and Danny really makes me happy--well, because they rock my socks. :adore:
 
Yes Ma'am, that's a great idea. I had even considered staying away until after the season finale because it was getting pretty grim around here. I have done a bit of bashing myself, and I'm sorry...won't happen again.

This is my favorite CSI show for lots of reasons. The team seems like family, rather than just work associates, and they care for and watch out for each other, instead of gossiping and arguing. That is hard to find in the real world and the writers have done a very good job of molding a family out of so many different personalities, and letting each one shine. I like the camaradarie between "the guys" (Danny, Flack, Adam and Hawkes). I applaud the writers for where they have taken Danny and Lindsay and their baby. I like the dynamic between Mac and Stella as the more experienced members of the team that take on the police department administrators and stand up for their kids. I adore all of Sid's quirkiness and can't imagine the morgue without him.

Beyond that, the stories are great and the humor is better than any other CSI show in the franchise. I think my favorite episodes would have to be (in no particular order):

Stealing Home -Lindsay tenderly working on the victim (Bird York singing In The Deep) and "tell Daddy I love him" and the rawhide braiding talk with Sid.
Trapped - Danny calling Don Flack Crime Stopper, and realizing Jerry had the code all along and could have unlocked the door. Okay, and Danny in a tanktop:drool:.
Run Silent Run Deep - Mac smoking cigarettes to help clear Danny, and Danny talking to Louie, then crying. Lindsay taking the DNA to Danny first and Mac believing his story.
The Taxi Cab Killer arc kept me on the edge of my seat everytime someone got in a cab
Sex Lies and Silicone - Flack and Lindsay were AWESOME in this one, and Adam wanting to touch the doll...I laughed all the way through it.
For the Greater Good - I know it hasn't aired yet, but I saw the promo pictures:p.

Thanks, Top, for getting us back on the right track. I am having a hard time waiting for the rest of this season's shows. I know they will be fantastic.
 
I don't hate them. They just screw up sometimes, just like every human being. The difference is that when you average Joe screws up, he doesn't have a bajillion people replaying it over and over again, taking notes and going "You go, man... and don't come back!". I'll keep being critical as usual, pointing out the things I don't like, but also bearing in mind I've seen way much worse. NY is one of the very few shows I watch and not because someone makes me, but because I love it to bits.

So... good things that haven't been said yet... hmmmm, lemme see...

-Hawkes development this season. Keep it up, guys!
-Sam Flack. If you could bring her back, it'd be great.
-Adam, especially during "The Party is Over".
-The Postsecret connection (me = Postsecret whore)
-Sid and the things he says, like "necking".
-Flack's humorous comments.
-Mac and Stella (not necessarily Mac/Stella).
 
I have been mean about TPTB sometimes, and I apologize for that. You're right, Top 41, they do bring us a lot of great stuff.

-Fantastic character development, better than on either of the other CSI shows. Right from season 1, Mac, Stella and Danny have been excellently drawn characters, and I especially liked how from the Dobson storyline on, they began showing different sides to Mac, and in that particular storyline, showing his flaws. This season, they've shown he can make mistakes too, just like everyone else. It's a good move. Then, since season 4, they've brought Hawkes, Flack, Adam and even Sid into their own and added complexities and idiosyncracies and flaws to these characters that are all there own.

-Great character centric storylines or episodes where one character gets to shine- Child's Play, the Stella-Diakos arc this season, Page Turner for Sid etc.

- great weird and wacky cases i.e. Sex, Lies and Silicone.

-cases/storylines that deal with hard, sometimes upsetting issues like the human trafficking one this season, Child's Play, many of the cases from s1, And Here's To You Mrs Azrael. Also the way they deal with serious issues such as 9/11 (generally, Blink especially) children dying (Child's Play) or being killers (various eps), human trafficking, drugs, crooked cops (Consequences), and the issues in Mrs Azrael. All of these issues have been handled in a respectful way. I liked the mentions of the budget issues this season too.

-showing characters like Gerrard and Sinclair as being more than cardboard cut out bad guys like Stetler from Miami or those IA guys in Rush to Judgement.

- great team effort episdoes like Snow Day, The Thing About Heroes etc.

- the very little ways they develop a character, and add interesting layers to that character with just one or two lines of dialogue - examples -Adam saying his father was a bully, and the hint that he might have OCD, Mac's revelation about his father dying of cancer, Hawkes' story about why he became an ME, Sonny Sassone's revelation that Danny had connections to Tanglewood, Flack and his sister talking about their childhood, the revelation that Angell has brothers and a cop father etc.
Even the characters offices/apartments/knick knacks hold clues about their personalities and characters - Mac has Marine pics in his office, his medals, and several pics of random people that aren't identified, he has little models of various NYC buildings, he has a Marines keyring on his wallet, how he wore his wedding ring for all of s1. Stella seems to have some nice artwork in her office, and there's that pic of her at her graduation from police academy. Adam's Ipod. Sid's collection of 'toys' in the morgue. Danny's now much missed glasses, and his cool fridge! Little things like that can add layers to a character.

- great guest stars, and I'm not talking the pop stars, I mean quality actors like Mykelti Williamson, Emmanuelle Vaugier, Claire Forlani, Sonya Walger, Kyle Gallner, Craig T. Nelson, Julia Ormond, and the guy who played Gerrard, don't know his name but he was very good.

- the funny moments, as provided mostly by Adam, Sid and Flack. Pure class! They are funny while being more than just 'the funny one'.

-action-packed finales. I liked all of them, but Snow Day was just amazing!

- the character relationships and friendships, especially Mac and Stella and Danny and Flack. Quality, meaningful, complex material.

- a great regular cast! They have some really talented people working for them, and I think that's what then attracts the quality guest stars. I love how they take actors that some people may not know too well - like Hill, AJ, and Eddie and let them show their stuff in the great character roles.
 
the powers that be on all the CSI shows do a brilliant job. i like to watch NY the most b/c i feel the writers and producers do a fantastic job at portraying the characters and mostly for portraying NYC the way they do. like most people here i do not agree or like some of the stories or character arches but that comes down to the approval of more people than just the writers and producers of where they want the show to go. i'm taking screenwriting and film classes i have some idea into what goes into making movies and shows.

so best things the powers that be have given us:

- eps like "Snow Day," "The Box," "Not What it Looks Like," "Hush," "Sleight Out of Hand," and so many other great eps that we have disected and loved throughout the years.

- there isn't one character that i cannot stand on this show i like them all. not since "Alias" ended has there been such a great cast and characters on TV (imo). even the guest stars large or small are memorable.

- the best part is when there is a good dose of humor. i die laughing most of the time whenever NY has a funny moment. "Sex Lies and Silicone" had me laughing so much my stomach hurt and it still does when i watch the ep. the writers know how to break up the tension very well by adding the right amount of humor in the right place. Adam, Sid and Flack are the best characters/actors when humor is needed.
 
Whilst I would agree that there has been some great episodes, I don't there has been any great ones this season. I genuinely believe season five is the weakest season by far and as a fan I find it very frustrating because I know TPTB can do better - they have done better, much better in past seasons.

The flashdrive storyline is starting to bore me, the Greek coin story never interested me at all, I can't think of any stand out cases. I don't know why its, maybe something has changed behind the scences, but to me this season is just a bit below par.

I hope that this is just a blip and season six returns with the quality episodes I know they can deliver.
 
Poppet said:
Whilst I would agree that there has been some great episodes, I don't there has been any great ones this season. I genuinely believe season five is the weakest season by far and as a fan I find it very frustrating because I know TPTB can do better - they have done better, much better in past seasons.

The flashdrive storyline is starting to bore me, the Greek coin story never interested me at all, I can't think of any stand out cases. I don't know why its, maybe something has changed behind the scences, but to me this season is just a bit below par.

I hope that this is just a blip and season six returns with the quality episodes I know they can deliver.
Click to expand...

I must admit I agree. I liked the first few eps of the season but the rest have been forgettable. This is by far the weakest season so far. Even if the last few eps live up to expectations I am still so disappointed in this season. There have been so many missed and botched opportunities that its just not funny.

As for season six returning with better I have my doubts after the quote by Pam Veasey.

"We really want to have a hopeful and heroic start to next season.
Click to expand...

Okay that I can cope with.

It'll be really positive, fun, and spirited."
Click to expand...
As I mentioned on the spoiler thread this does this not fill me with enthusiasm. These are not the qualities I am looking for in my Crime Drama.
 
Personally, I think I got caught up in it. That's not a good reason to comment on their deeds, but that's what happened for me. I will chill for a while.

What have they brought me? Don Flack, Mac Taylor, Adam Ross, Sheldon Hawkes, Danny Messer, and Sid Hammerback. Need I say more?

Oh, and lately, that Black Hole of Continuity that has been mentioned around here has opened up to bring forth some of its contents (Sheldon's Ex, the flash drive). So, I do have hope that TPTB are trying to give us a great show!

Yes, Fay, I love that slashy subtext, as you call it!
 
TPTB bring this great show to us every week (well, not every week, but you know what I mean, and I do probably watch at least one NY episode a week). ;) I love it, and I love how the writers continue to bring new storylines, exciting cases and fantastic characters (who we are invested in), and get us all talking!

Top41 said:
The team moments are definitely ones I like, too. The ending of "Heroes" and Danny getting everyone a bug dinner at the end of "Fare Game" come to mind.
Click to expand...

I love it when they get together! I definitely had a big smile on my face when they visited Sid at the end of "Page Turner", and I even smiled when Danny announced he was having a daughter, the team were together.

Oh, and "Danno." Every time Flack calls Danny "Danno" it makes me smile. I'm also fond of "Dan" and "Mess." Flack's nicknames for Danny, whether they come from Eddie Cahill improving or lines in the scripts, are made of win. :D
Click to expand...

Danny and Flack are made of win. :D I'm also fond of anyone calling Flack "Don".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top