Do you believe in God?

[Speedystokesgirl]

Also, hello fellow ex-Catholic! I was raised in Catholicism too. I actually dropped out halfway through confirmation, declaring that I no longer believed in God. My parents were..... "disappointed".

Yeah, I call myself a recovering Catholic! :lol: I made my confirmation, but when I was an adult I started struggling with my belief in God and what the Catholic religion taught me. I struggled a long time with it, and now I'm happy where I'm at.

 

[allmaple]

For the longest time, I've been wrestling with (and I still am) the idea that there is no God. Everytime I look at the world, however, I just can't accept that everything evolved over millions of years by chance.

i wouldnt exactly call it chance, there are selective pressures out there that determine what genotypes will be successful in the environment. plus our dna replication machinery is flawed, so mutations are introduced quite frequently. if the change is beneficial, it sticks around.

But I do accept that there are changes within species. That is without a doubt true.

i dont see a difference between microevolution and macroevolution. all you need is reproductive isolation, and that happens all the time.

Something else that has always bothered me is why creationists are so persecuted in the scientific community. If we're all about unity in our culture and accepting each other, then why is it so taboo to have a different belief?

because there is nothing scientific about creationism or intelligent design. those subjects belong in a theology class, not a science one.

 

[Ginnna]

there are selective pressures out there that determine what genotypes will be successful in the environment. plus our dna replication machinery is flawed, so mutations are introduced quite frequently. if the change is beneficial, it sticks around.

i dont see a difference between microevolution and macroevolution. all you need is reproductive isolation, and that happens all the time.

*giggles* I feel like I'm in my Physical Anthropology class right now. We've just gone over all this stuff. Hehehe... hooray for retaining knowledge!

 

[Jacquie]

Yeah, I call myself a recovering Catholic! :lol: I made my confirmation, but when I was an adult I started struggling with my belief in God and what the Catholic religion taught me. I struggled a long time with it, and now I'm happy where I'm at.

I think that should say it all That no matter what you're beliefs are you are happy. It shouldn't matter who or what you believe in. Your happiness to yourself is the most important.

I grew up Anglican and I still consider myself an Anglican even though I haven't gone to Church in years. I'm an old school kind of person when it comes to my Church Services. I don't like the new ones they have today. If they want to have new age services for people then have a separate service for those of us that like the old ones. I also have an issue with the way the Church treats they gay ministers but that's not for here.

I don't know my bible well enough to comment on some of the stuff that's being said here. I think we are all God's creatures and have been put on this planet for a purpose whether is is to believe in God or not believe in God.

What I do find annoying are those people that try to push their religion on someone else. I'll except you for who you are as long as you except me for who I am.

 

[DetHiggins]

For the longest time, I've been wrestling with (and I still am) the idea that there is no God. Everytime I look at the world, however, I just can't accept that everything evolved over millions of years by chance.

i wouldnt exactly call it chance, there are selective pressures out there that determine what genotypes will be successful in the environment. plus our dna replication machinery is flawed, so mutations are introduced quite frequently. if the change is beneficial, it sticks around.

But I do accept that there are changes within species. That is without a doubt true.

i dont see a difference between microevolution and macroevolution. all you need is reproductive isolation, and that happens all the time.

Something else that has always bothered me is why creationists are so persecuted in the scientific community. If we're all about unity in our culture and accepting each other, then why is it so taboo to have a different belief?

because there is nothing scientific about creationism or intelligent design. those subjects belong in a theology class, not a science one.

Okay, okay, I feel like a bit of an idiot. But realize that I'm 15 so I don't know a lot. However, until it's proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, evolution as a result of natural selection is fact then I would say it is just as much theology. However I am aware of the fossil records and such. I do know of the evidence, but I still am confused as to how the nucleotides and nucleic acids would have survived that long without dying because until they formed a cell, how would they have reproduced?

Also you said something about selective pressures? But what makes them selective? I just think they may have some sort of design to them. My thoughts are this. You can't throw chaos into chaos and get order.

I hope this doesn't sound rude, and I hope it makes sense. I just don't get a chance to ask this stuff at school. And I want to know what evolution really says. I mean, I've read several books on the subject, but I don't really know what it is in the vernacular

 

[Ginnna]

Okay, okay, I feel like a bit of an idiot. But realize that I'm 15 so I don't know a lot. However, until it's proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, evolution as a result of natural selection is fact then I would say it is just as much theology. However I am aware of the fossil records and such. I do know of the evidence, but I still am confused as to how the nucleotides and nucleic acids would have survived that long without dying because until they formed a cell, how would they have reproduced?

Also you said something about selective pressures? But what makes them selective? I just think they may have some sort of design to them. My thoughts are this. You can't throw chaos into chaos and get order.

I hope this doesn't sound rude, and I hope it makes sense. I just don't get a chance to ask this stuff at school. And I want to know what evolution really says. I mean, I've read several books on the subject, but I don't really know what it is in the vernacular

Don't feel like an idiot. No one's born knowing all of this stuff.

Just know that when you talk about the emergence of life, you're not actually addressing evolution. The scientific theory of evolution addresses the diversity of life, not the origins. And as for evolution being a fact? Well, it's both fact and theory (and "theory" means something totally different in scientific terms than it does in everyday speech).

There's a very brief Wiki article on selective pressure if you're interested. Honestly, this is my advice - if you're still curious when you get to the college level, take a Evolutionary Bio class or a Physical Anthropology class. It'll be most illuminating.

 

[allmaple]

sorry i didnt realize how young you are! i would definitely suggest looking into some of the scientific literature if you want to understand more. some of the studies can be overwhelming, but if you find a journal with review articles they sum up the information without presenting a study. there is also a website called talk origins that presents the information in an easy to follow way. i think a lot of people out there just dismiss evolution without actually understanding it.

 

[Desertwind]

Just a suggestion, read the Bible, and this will certainly clarify things if your in doubt and pray, GOD does answer:bolian:

 

[Ginnna]

Just a suggestion, read the Bible

Thing is... I have read it. The only thing it did was further convince me that the god concept is logically impossible and that religious dogma is dangerous.

Besides, there's no reason for me to believe that the Bible is any more or less divinely inspired than, say, the Koran, or any more or less spiritually valid than, say, the Sutras, the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc.

 

[starzsgirl]

Just a suggestion, read the Bible

Thing is... I have read it. The only thing it did was further convince me that the god concept is logically impossible and that religious dogma is dangerous.

Yes, exactly what I was going to say.

I'm perfectly happy with how I am even after being raised Christian and being sent to church for the first 13 years of my life. I choose to fall off the bandwagon and yes I attend a Catholic affiliated college they don't force anything on anyone, which in my honest opinion is the best way to go about things. Just let everyone believe what they want and do what they want.

 

[Desertwind]

That's sad for me, that one feels that way but to each one's own~ who do you think Adam and Eve were? & where did they sprout from?, and Moses and Noah, the list is endless. But to each ones own. I wouldn't want to die and not believe there's a heaven or hell depending on the life you led~My faith in him has gotten me through rough times and I strongly believe there is a god, in fact I know there is~

 

[Ginnna]

That's sad for me, that one feels that way who do you think Adam and Eve were? & where did they sprout from?, and Moses and Noah, the list is endless. But to each ones own. I wouldn't want to die and not believe there's a heaven or hell depending on the life you led~My faith in him has gotten me through rough times and I strongly believe there is a god, in fact I know there is~

If it's all the same to you, I'd rather not have your pity.

I don't believe that Adam, Eve, Noah, Moses, etc, ever existed. It's all part of a mythology... like Hercules and Quetzalcoatl.

Pascal's Wager is an oft recurring theme in most of my religious discussions... which is unfortunate. It's a fatally flawed argument. I can think of a handful of objections right off the top of my head.

I often hear "my faith is my strength" and I understand that it can and often does serve as a coping mechanism, but... that doesn't strike me as a reason to believe. The desire to feel safe and protected and loved isn't enough reason for me to accept any religious claim.

 

[DetHiggins]

I'm perfectly happy with how I am even after being raised Christian and being sent to church for the first 13 years of my life. I choose to fall off the bandwagon and yes I attend a Catholic affiliated college they don't force anything on anyone, which in my honest opinion is the best way to go about things. Just let everyone believe what they want and do what they want.

I know that it sounds unChristian of me, but I do agree. Although there is a quote that I also believe. "If you truly believe in Christianity, how much do you have to hate someone to not spread what you believe?" Something along those lines was said by an atheist. I can't remember his name. Terms are not my strong point

I go to a Christian school, and I hate chapel which we have Tuesday and Thursday. I feel like all they tell us is that we're wrong and that we need to turn. What I don't like is that it is so forced on us. It is a requirement at my school to be Christian which isn't a problem, but I feel like I can't ask questions. And that's why I'm glad I have y'all. I can talk about my insecurities about what I believe without feeling judged. Plus, when I defend my faith, I feel stronger in it.

Anyway, when I've been studying Catholicism, I've noticed what's made me disgruntled. I go to an Anglican church, but I don't associate myself with a denomination (sp?) because I don't think that any one denomination has it right. I find that studying the Bible is a way of finding out why I believe what I believe. Also, I don't just study the Bible. I look in my science book, history book (although the editor for my history book annoys me), and my literature because to know what you believe you can't just look at what you're supposed to believe. You have to know what other people think and their thoughts to know what is right.

Wow, I went on a whole different tract there. I hope that made sense. And I really just wanted to thank y'all for helping me.

 

[Desertwind]

That's sad for me, that one feels that way who do you think Adam and Eve were? & where did they sprout from?, and Moses and Noah, the list is endless. But to each ones own. I wouldn't want to die and not believe there's a heaven or hell depending on the life you led~My faith in him has gotten me through rough times and I strongly believe there is a god, in fact I know there is~

If it's all the same to you, I'd rather not have your pity.

I don't believe that Adam, Eve, Noah, Moses, etc, ever existed. It's all part of a mythology... like Hercules and Quetzalcoatl.

Pascal's Wager is an oft recurring theme in most of my religious discussions... which is unfortunate. It's a fatally flawed argument. I can think of a handful of objections right off the top of my head.

I often hear "my faith is my strength" and I understand that it can and often does serve as a coping mechanism, but... that doesn't strike me as a reason to believe. The desire to feel safe and protected and loved isn't enough reason for me to accept any religious claim.

I certainly wasn't pitying you, not at all I said "to each ones own" and BTW they [scientists] found Noah's ark on Mt. Ararat. [google] And historical events document Moses leading his people out of Eygpt, & they did hang Jesus on a cross. These people were real, not myths, and so forth and so on. Once again to each his or hers own. I have my opinions and theories and views and others have there's ..

 

[Ginnna]

I certainly wasn't pitying you, not at all I said "to each ones own" and BTW they [scientists] found Noah's ark on Mt. Ararat. [google] And historical events document Moses leading his people out of Eygpt, & they did hang Jesus on a cross. These people were real, not myths, and so forth and so on. Once again to each his or hers own. I have my opinions and theories and views and others have there's ..

My apologies, I mistook you feeling sad for me - "That's sad for me, that one feels that way" - as pity. My bad.

I've already read up on Noah's Ark and Mt. Ararat. No, it hasn't actually been found. There have been unsubstantiated claims but absolutely nothing that comes even close to legitimate or believable. Besides, the entire concept is riddled with insurmountable problems. The construction of the ark, whether it could have survived as long as claimed on the sea, whether it could have survived in tact until recent time, how the animals ate and pooped and slept and survived, etc etc. If the answer to each question is "miracle, miracle, miracle, miracle, miracle," that's a woefully inadequate explanation in my book. I would feel intellectually lazy if I made extraordinary claims and then failed to provide extraordinary evidence, opting instead to fill the answer slots with "God did it".

"Known extra-Biblical references to Moses date from many centuries after his supposed lifetime, and contain significant departures from the Biblical account.... No other surviving written records from Egypt, Assyria, etc., indisputably referring to the stories of the Bible or its main characters before ca. 850s BCE have been found, and there is no known physical evidence to corroborate Moses' existence." Quoted from this. Feel free to check the sources.

But hey... perhaps a guy named Moses and a guy named Jesus did exist back then. Could be. Doesn't really make a difference to me, though, since there's no reason for me to believe that anyone existing back then, whether they were named Moses or Jesus or John or Jack or Randy or Chuck, etc, had any kind of supernatural, magical, mystical, spiritual or otherworldly powers.