The Great Ship Debate - CSI:Crime Scene Investigation

Re: The Great Ship Debate

You're talking about GD. Okay, I know Catherine went to her father to get the money for her Nicky to get him back. She is working fast to find him, just like the other. If you remember what Quentin said, you remember this, GD is about Grissom, Catherine, Warrick and Sara, how they feel about Nick? They do care about him so much. Grissom is the calm one, he is scared, you can tell that in his eyes that he is so worried about Nick and afraid that he won't save him. Warrick is scared of losing his best friend, so it Sara. You can tell by look in her eyes that she is worried about her cowboy. Sara, Grissom and Archie are the one that watch Nick in the video the most then Warrick and Catherine. Catherine is working hard too, she didn't care about her supervisor job and lose her supervisor job, all she want to get Nicky back because she felt guilty about him and Warrick to choose which crime scene they want.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

ok.. GD? if it had to be a relationship epsiode.. i think it would be a SNickers episode. it's not just because i'm a snickers, but remember when sara was waiting for that fingerprint match? she was like... losing it!! like, with the foutain. and then when they first get the vidoe thing, with nick in the box, it looks like sara is REALLY close to crying. you could see a tear in her eye. yeah, they all were in shock but sara was about to cry, you could tell.

i think cath was more of a mother trying to protect her young in that episode. like, when grissom and cath were talking to nick's parents. it was kinda like nick's real parents and then nick's OTHER parents (gris and cath).

but i agreed.. this episode wasn't really a relationship episode, it was a friendship episode. they all realized how much nick means to them and how much they care and love him.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

i had to really think for a moment as to why GD would be even considered shippy. i have never seen it from this point of view, cuz for me, it was purely about friendship.

remember Cath's reaction in WTG to a dead body in the morgue? she thought it was Brass for a moment, but was that particular scene shippy? i very much doubt it was b/c Cath is not secretely in love with Jim. she is his friend though.

Sara, on the other hand, is emotional and compassionate (remember the dead gorilla? lol), so i didn't see anything that would suggest she loves him. lol

to me the whole episode was about friendship, and everybody in the team made the greatest effort they could to get Nick out.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I agree. I think the problem is that it seems that men and women can't be friends on TV without it always having to mean "more". The problem of Grey's Anatomy sexing off each and every one of its characters obviously adds to this at the moment, but on CSI they show a variety of people - Nick and Sara, Grissom and Catherine, Nick and Catherine, Warrick and Sara, etc. - who are just able to maintain a good, solid, trusting friendship and overall teamwork.

Maybe it's just 'cuz I'm a tomboy and hung out with a lot of guys, but I need to see something more than just casual flirting to deem it a ship.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I didn't see GD as a snicker's moment at all. That is my opinion. I think Sara was upset by Nick's condition, but you really didn't see much of her thoughts in this episode.

When i was watching GD...I just had this impression that catherine was desperate to find him...more so than any of the others. Not that they didn't want to find him, but it ate at her.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Well, I can't answer for ollieuan but I can guess at what he's getting at.
In the earlier seasons Sara was happy, flirty, and overall a kick-butt girl. Then TPTB for whatever pre-determined reason, decided she was in love with her boss, and what's she was going pine after Grissom. She asked him out (he refused), she kept dropping hints like anvils (he sent mixed signals) and slowly but surely, our beloved "old!Sara" got depressed. Some people might even say a large part of her "depression, drinking, and lack of a social life" was because of her boss. (does this make Grissom a bad guy? Eh, you decide.)

I for one don't really think he caused her drinking, but she was turned from a smart, headstrong, serous character into an angsty woman dependant on validation from her boss (and, oh yeah, let's add some emotional baggage as well.)

So yeah, a lot of the angst and depression around Sara seemed to, more often than not, involve Grissom in some way. Now that she's got him, she's happy. All she needed to be a complete, happy person was to bag the emotionally reserved man of her dreams. (I don't mean to be cynical but that comment kind of bothered me, and ollieuan isn't here to answer. Hope I did him justice - he's an excellent debater here! )

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Exactly. That was what I was trying to say with my terrible English. :lol: Nick and Catherine flirt, but so do a lot of people, you should see my office. :lol:

In what episodes exactly? Her first episode in the show was tough. Catherine being a bitch to her, Grissom not taking her opinion. She was upset then too. Towards the middle of the first season she lightened up, then got sad again circa Too Tough to Die.
Season 2, season 3, season 4, season 5 all 'sad Sara'. Season 6 things started to lighten up (make that of you will ) and season 7 she is the happiest she has ever been.
So sorry I still don't see the happy Sara in the earlier seasons. Sure she had odd moments of happiness (Unfriendly Skies) and joking around with Greg, but it was very rare.

So I rest my case, Grissom has made Sara a happy person, and a more enjoyable character to watch.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

IMO Cath only gets the label of being a 'bitch' because she stands up to Grissom like nobody else does. Its unfair and it annoys me! We could easily say the same thing about Sara in Nesting Dolls right?! IMO, everyone has thier moments of 'bitchiness' its a part of personality.

I don't think Sara's changed that much since being with Griss really. She's a bit more forward but apart from that, she ain't changed much imo. Where as Grissom seems quieter I probs see that because I don't ship GSR.

My ships (PureJoy & Snickers) don't even get casual flirting anymore lol. *weeps*

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

lmao. i mean there wasn't anything before Season 1

Sara had problems since Season 1: Sex Lies and Larvae, Too Tough To Die, Evaluation Day or Strip Strangler, just to name a few episodes when we first had a glimpse on her demons.

besides, her interactions with Grissom since the very beginning contained a lot of shippiness. the first scene she appeared in the series in Cool Change is a primary example. also Crate 'n Burial, Unfriendly Skies, Sex Lies and Larvae, or Gentle Gentle suggest that she was brought on the show as a love interest for Grissom. it certainly wasn't an "out of nowhere she asked him for dinner and changed her personality to a miserable drunk" but it was all brought by the writers very early in the show and continued developing throughout the 7 years that it has been airing. you cannot say that Sara was all happy in the *earlier* seasons, because we had her problems clearly shown in the 10th episode (or maybe even earlier, but i can't recall now), and she and Grissom shared an attraction since the first episode Sara appeared, and quite possibly even before the series started.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I also think that there is a BIG misconception that if you don't like GSR that you don't like Sara. I personally like Sara. I can't say the same for anyone else, but I think that is where some animosity comes from.

I like Sara. She is smart, pretty, and tormented. She is constantly battling her past. She does have her moments like Cath too, they all do.
I just don't think Grissom is the person who can help her overcome those. They to me, are too much alike.

Again, I speak for myself when I say I LIKE SARA. I just don't like the ship.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I like Sara as well, and I don't really despise GSR. It was my first ship and I only "jumped" because Grissom was so distant from Sara. The angst... it was too... angsty! I like drama as much as the next person, but there was a reason GSR was voted angstiest couple.

I was about to counterpoint and elaborate on my argument but this caught my eye:

That makes me a happy keeper of the hearth. She was most happy around Greg, and that's all I need to hear.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Question? But how does dating start? If I'm correct it starts by flirting! What do you think Grissom/Sara did for 6 years? Flirt. Or shall I say Sara flirted with Grissom while grissom flirted with Catherine.

Cath and Nick do flirt...I will give you that, but they have a very strong chemistry...that honestly if CSI put them together they would so blow away GSR. MO of course. But...hello Marg has chemistry with the guys on the show period. Grillows would have been better as well. But...personally, I think hooking Grissom up with either Sara or Catherine would be a mistake...so to me the show made a mistake.

The ratings are down for the show, and the ironic thing is...you can no longer say it's because of Grey's Anatomy because CSI is now beating that show in ratings. However, the ratings are down compared to last season. Wonder why? I say it's GSR...I think they made a mistake because the fan bases for Grillows and GSR are both pretty large, and picking one over the other was not wise.

Though...for some reason I think Grillows would have had a better impact. For starters they seemed sort of couplish on the show in the earlier seasons.

I agree with another post...I do like Sara as well. I also like Grissom, but I don't really care for them together. But then again I don't care because it's not affecting the ship I want together. More than most likely if GSR breaks up they won't hook Sara up with Nick because she's already been in a canon relationship. So...she for the most part will be off the radar for a csi relationship if GSR doesn't work out.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Indeed Waiting indeed. You speek the truth dudette! I have a theory why TPTB picked GSR, on the official forum (which is extremly undermodded) most people are GSR, if you post *anything* suggesting PureJoy aka Grillows/Snickers/Sandle etc etc you get beaten down and shut up. Hence why I don't go there anymore very often. I got attacked because I had a PJ quote in my sig and we were talking about something unreated to ships and someone decided to have a go! Pathetic. Now, because that is the only forum (most probs) that TPTB look at, all they gonna see is GSR. You see where i'm going with this? In the last couple of seasons, TPTB seem to have forgot that Grissom & Catherine even know each other. Grrrr. I'm not asking for them to get it on, just some acknowledgement they know each other and have done for nearly 20 years.

As you can tell I ain't GSR but, yes, hhunter, there is a BIG misconception about GCR's that we don't like Sara, I really like Sara, sure, she's had her moments were shes pissed me off but so has every character! I like Sara, I like Gil, just not together. Same as you Waiting.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

^ yeah, i got what you're saying. and it's really sad that there are people that make a bad opinion about the whole community of GSR-supporters. the thing with GSR is that, i'm risking to say this, it's the most *popular* ship (a lot due to its recent canonness and also due to their complicated relations over those 6 earlier years) and as of right now i think the most people who do ship, ship GSR. in every community you're gonna find rude people, especially if you go on an unmodded board. it's a lot more probable then, that you'll find mean GSR's.

on the other hand i met a lot of not very nice Snickers people, but i know that the whole community is not like that. it's those who are the loudest that make an impression on others, and usually it's a bad impression.

i agree that there should be more interaction between Grissom and Catherine. i said it multiple times, that i miss their on-screen friendship.

oh, and i seriously think that certain people from TPTB check out this board quite often

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I don't see how you could chalk the ratings loss up to anything but Grey's. They had their lowest ratings of the season last night, but still pulled in 20+ million people. The same time slot last year on ABC pulled in 9 million. So they've managed to better that time slot by 10 million people even on Grey's lowest night this season. CSI's down an average of about 5 million from last year. I have a hard time believing that CSI's loss of 5 million viewers has nothing to do with that timeslots gain of 10 million viewers.

I don't think TPTB chose to make GSR canon because of internet fanbase activity. We don't make up a large enough percentage of the viewing audience, and they aren't catering to just us. I think GSR becoming canon was always a distinct possiblity because it's one of only two ships that TPTB have ever really commented on or addressed. It's always been an underlying thing on this show from season 1. I can see how people enjoy Snickers and Grillows but I think those are the two ships that never had a chance of becoming canon.

For me, I really enjoy GSR and I always have. The flirting being only on Sara's part, I don't agree with that Grissom has flirted plenty with her over the years but I think she always unnerved him. I think he feels comfortable with Catherine because there is no agenda there for him, they're just friends. Butterflied cemented the fact that Grissom had some pretty deep feelings for Sara and also brought home the fact that Grissom and Sara's relationship is different than any other relationship Grissom has on this show. It was never just friendship between these two.

I don't really know much about Cath/Nick except that the original plan was for those two to be in a relationship of sorts during the first season and for some reason it was shelved. Anyone know why they did that?