CSI:NY Season 5 Spoilers Discussion - Start Spreadin' The News!

[La_Guera]

Ever the pessimist, I read the spoilers differently than most folks here.

Oh, holy God, CSI:NY, you suck so much. I've made no bones about being an anti-shipper, and as an anti-shipper, have made no apology for loathing the meatloaf, chemistry-free "romance" between Danny and Lindsay. It detracts from the original premise of the show, which, if you'll recall, was crime-solving, wastes valuable time that could be used to develop other characters, and undermines a formerly strong, appealing character by using him as a surrogate personality for Lindsay "I Wanna Talk about Me" Monroe.

I was dubious when spoilers announced that Riki Sandoval would be returning in S5 despite S4's climactic farewell wherein she announced she was moving away. My suspicious mind, well-schooled in the various breeds of TV Drama Llamas, immediately recognized the pungent reek of Potential Baby Drama. I cringed, but other fans held out hope that maybe the writers wouldn't hitch their creative wagon to such a beaten old nag. Maybe Riki would return because she decided that she wanted more than just a fling.

Hahaha. None is so optimistic as the fan who sees the train coming but can't clear the tracks. After seeing Ausiello's most recent batch of spoilers(and oh, what a viciously apt term that is here), it's a safe bet that Riki is coming back with a bun in the oven. That's bad enough. What makes me reach for the puke pail is Ausiello telling us that Lindsay will "ride to the rescue".

The idea of Lindsay riding to anyone's rescue is ridiculous. "Riding to the rescue" is a phrase which here means "beat back the perceived threat to what she considers 'hers': Danny." Lindsay is inherently selfish, and if she "rescues" Danny, it won't be for his sake. It will be for her selfish need to keep him for herself despite the myriad proofs that he is in no shape to be involved with anyone right now. She wants to keep him on a short leash so that when she's ready and has finished her dalliance with the Recurring But Ultimately Useless Hunk of the Season Whose Peen Will Be a Foil to Twu Wub, she can have him.

That's nauseating in itself, but what gets the bile spewing are the implications these spoilers make about Riki. Why would Lindsay need to rescue Danny from her? Danny slept with her of his own accord, and even if it turns out she was poking holes in the condoms in an effort to make Danny "replace" Reuben(and I almost yorked typing that), that doesn't make Danny a dithering damsel in distress. I'm sure he knew how his winkie worked when he bedded her. He could've kept it in his pants.

Are they implying that Riki got pregnant, but not with Danny's child? Or maybe it is Danny's child and she's going to take him to court with claims that he refuses to recognize paternity and is a deadbeat dad. Even better, maybe she'll tell him she's expecting and then abort the child just so he can "know what it feels like to lose a child." Never mind that that would make zero sense and mean Riki has lost two children. But this is CSI:NY. Who needs common sense when you can just jerk off the Drama Llama?

Either way, Riki comes off as either a manipulative liar or a vengeful, crazed harpy, and Lindsay emerges as an obsessed hypocrite. Oh, gee golly whiz, sign me up. I've always wanted my Falcon Crest with dead bodies in it.

Oh, show, I almost wish you'd bitten it in S1. At least then I'd have good memories of what could've been.

 

[kinkapoodles]

The main thing that struck me with the whole s4 D/L stuff was that Lindsay was too emotionally involved to truly be there for him,

Isn't the whole point of being too emotionally involved with someone to actually be there for them and put them first? If she was really in love with Danny like she said, shouldn't she be able to put her feelings aside FOR HIM? If they were truly in a serious relationship like some people think, wouldn't he have turned to her at some point in Season 4 for comfort? Danny continued to turn to everybody else but Lindsay. The entire DL mess has ALWAYS revolved around Lindsay. She wants Danny on HER terms. She wants to be there for him when it's convenient for HER. In Season 3, she turned Danny away and stood him up and he STILL flew across the country like an idiot for her. Danny might be screwed up but at least he showed support for her. Support that I don't think she deserved from him. She on the other hand, is not capable of being emotionally supportive of anybody but herself.

Carmine said it himself that at this point DL would either just have a baby or they'd completely end it. Well, it looks like he was right again. It appears DL is ending and maybe, just maybe there will be a baby- a Danny/Rikki baby.

LaGuera, I love your posts. They always brighten my day.

 

[La_Guera]

The main thing that struck me with the whole s4 D/L stuff was that Lindsay was too emotionally involved to truly be there for him,

Isn't the whole point of being too emotionally involved with someone to actually be there for them and put them first? If she was really in love with Danny like she said, shouldn't she be able to put her feelings aside FOR HIM? If they were truly in a serious relationship like some people think, wouldn't he have turned to her at some point in Season 4 for comfort? Danny continued to turn to everybody else but Lindsay. The entire DL mess has ALWAYS revolved around Lindsay. She wants Danny on HER terms. She wants to be there for him when it's convenient for HER. In Season 3, she turned Danny away and stood him up and he STILL flew across the country like an idiot for her. Danny might be screwed up but at least he showed support for her. Support that I don't think she deserved from him. She on the other hand, is not capable of being emotionally supportive of anybody but herself.

Carmine said it himself that at this point DL would either just have a baby or they'd completely end it. Well, it looks like he was right again. It appears DL is ending and maybe, just maybe there will be a baby- a Danny/Rikki baby.

LaGuera, I love your posts. They always brighten my day.

Should I take that as a compliment or just accept that I'm this board's resident frothing, cantankerous coot, sitting on the front porch and railing at the young whippersnappers pissing on my lawn and mooning me as they drive past in their muscle cars?

 

[vegaslights]

The main thing that struck me with the whole s4 D/L stuff was that Lindsay was too emotionally involved to truly be there for him,

Isn't the whole point of being too emotionally involved with someone to actually be there for them and put them first? If she was really in love with Danny like she said, shouldn't she be able to put her feelings aside FOR HIM? If they were truly in a serious relationship like some people think, wouldn't he have turned to her at some point in Season 4 for comfort? Danny continued to turn to everybody else but Lindsay. The entire DL mess has ALWAYS revolved around Lindsay. She wants Danny on HER terms. She wants to be there for him when it's convenient for HER. In Season 3, she turned Danny away and stood him up and he STILL flew across the country like an idiot for her. Danny might be screwed up but at least he showed support for her. Support that I don't think she deserved from him. She on the other hand, is not capable of being emotionally supportive of anybody but herself.

Carmine said it himself that at this point DL would either just have a baby or they'd completely end it. Well, it looks like he was right again. It appears DL is ending and maybe, just maybe there will be a baby- a Danny/Rikki baby.

LaGuera, I love your posts. They always brighten my day.

Should I take that as a compliment or just accept that I'm this board's resident frothing, cantankerous coot, sitting on the front porch and railing at the young whippersnappers pissing on my lawn and mooning me as they drive past in their muscle cars?

:lol::lol:

 

[JellyBelly]

The main thing that struck me with the whole s4 D/L stuff was that Lindsay was too emotionally involved to truly be there for him,

Isn't the whole point of being too emotionally involved with someone to actually be there for them and put them first?

In an ideal world yes, but, this is drama . . . . apparently. As for the rest of your post, that's your opinion, I have mine. They don't match. Human relationships are complicated, both sides can be called selfish, I prefer not to look at it in those terms, that's just the way I choose to see things, they both have baggage and that's what makes them and their interactions interesting for me. And no, I'm not stuck in the fluffly D/L bubble, at all. I just find it more interesting to question why people do what they do rather than assume it's because of some innate selfish streak.

 

[kinkapoodles]

Should I take that as a compliment

Absolutely. Seeing things from your point of view (non-shipper) is interesting.

As for the rest of your post, that's your opinion, I have mine. They don't match.

Exactly, and that's perfectly fine. And we both like to express them and that's fine too. Makes for good debate.

I just find it more interesting to question why people do what they do rather than assume it's because of some innate selfish streak.

I would love to know why she does what she does but I choose to believe (not assume) that when Lindsay wants every single thing to go her way when she wants and when she says, to be selfish. In Love Run Cold, when Lindsay told Danny 'it's not you, it's me' I have to agree because she only thinks of herself. She pushed Danny away because SHE didn't want his support BUT when SHE wanted to be there (eventually) for Danny, SHE felt insulted because he obviously didn't want her support.

 

[JellyBelly]

As for the rest of your post, that's your opinion, I have mine. They don't match.

Exactly, and that's perfectly fine. And we both like to express them and that's fine too. Makes for good debate.

It does make for good debate but sometimes it feels a little repetitive. I think there's only so many ways that you can call Lindsay selfish and only so many ways I can say she's just as damaged as Danny, she just shows it in a different way. The main difference imo is that Danny wears his heart on his sleeve while Lindsay closes off and shuts down.

I keep telling myself I'm going to stop getting into this debate because it just goes around in circles. But I can't help it!!

 

[Kimmychu]

JellyBelly said:
In an ideal world yes, but, this is drama . . . . apparently.

That is far too general a statement. Even in the real world, there are people who are more than able to put their loved ones above themselves. In this case, it just happens Lindsay doesn't. And if we're gonna go with your theory ...

I think there's only so many ways that you can call Lindsay selfish and only so many ways I can say she's just as damaged as Danny, she just shows it in a different way. The main difference imo is that Danny wears his heart on his sleeve while Lindsay closes off and shuts down.

So your reasoning is that Lindsay's f**kedup-ness makes her close off and shut down ... which then makes it valid for her rail on Danny for a turned down lunch offer, make him feel like a kicked dog for weeks, act the hypocrite by doing the very thing for which she railed on him and then tell him how 'hard it is to love him'. All the while he's grieving for a child's death he feels responsible for. :wtf:

So, by your own standards, Danny's f**kedup-ness should mean it's more than valid for him to do what he did but instead, he's a 'scumbag' who 'deserves to suffer and grovel at Lindsay's feet' and 'do everything he can to make it up to her'. And we still don't know the status of things between them, apart from Lindsay saying she was 'so stupid to ever get involved with Danny'. By the way, getting involved =/= relationship.

The hypocrisy/double standards here is astounding.

 

[Shytownmofo]

As for the rest of your post, that's your opinion, I have mine. They don't match.

Exactly, and that's perfectly fine. And we both like to express them and that's fine too. Makes for good debate.

It does make for good debate but sometimes it feels a little repetitive. I think there's only so many ways that you can call Lindsay selfish and only so many ways I can say she's just as damaged as Danny, she just shows it in a different way. The main difference imo is that Danny wears his heart on his sleeve while Lindsay closes off and shuts down.

I keep telling myself I'm going to stop getting into this debate because it just goes around in circles. But I can't help it!!

So are you saying that Lindsay being as damaged as Danny precludes her from being selfish? I don't understand that...

It seems to me that yeah, Lindsay is as damaged as Danny is, but while Danny shows it by being self-destructive and shutting everyone out, Lindsay shows it by being needy and selfish.

It almost Is like there's a double standard there, maybe because Lindsay's female, and women are supposed to be like that, but Danny's male and men aren't supposed to be like that.

Whatever happens with it, I'm happy that Lindsay will finally get a chance to stand on her own without Danny propping her. Whoever this new guy is for her, I hope he brings something unique to the table, and I hope it's someone that she has great chemistry with, like Danny has with Rikki.

Also, We get to meet Flack's Little Sister! Yes! And she's a Bad Girl, Too?!?! Oh, yeah. We're going to have some fun with this one. Shame is, I got class on Wednesday nights in the fall. Guess I'll have to buy a DVR...

 

[racefh853629]

Is Lindsay as damaged as Danny? I feel an entire thread could be dedicated to this question, but in my opinion (and in short), no, she's not. Danny's much more damaged than her. If you'd like to hear my opinion, though, PM me, because I don't think this is the place to lay out my case.

Having said that, I think the idea that their relationship appears to be ending is great. In the beginning (like, season 2 when it was flirtations), it was cute, but over the last season, it got to be too much drama for me. I think both of them moving on to other people is a good idea.

However, I do like that the two of them will (apparently) still be friends and still be able to work together. I think that speaks volumes. They were friends and colleagues first before anything else, and I'm glad that it seems as though they're going to be able to go back to that.

On another topic, I like that Flack's sister's gonna be a bad girl. Maybe her and Adam have a cosmic connection... or maybe a past :lol: No matter what, I think the two of them interacting together will be great. I'm excited for this season.

 

[Top41]

The main thing that struck me with the whole s4 D/L stuff was that Lindsay was too emotionally involved to truly be there for him,

I'm not sure I get this. When you're in a relationship, you want to be there for that person. You make the effort because your own discomfort is way, way down on the list compared to that person's suffering, or the prospect of losing that person.

I'll buy, though, that her inability to approach him can be explained away by awkwardness or a true inability to reach out. But for her to then turn on him and blame it on him? How is that manipulative and selfish and frankly cruel?

I can see one or the other explained away. Either she couldn't find a way to reach out to him or she felt he was shutting her out. But both? Really?

there was too much baggage in their relationship for Danny to turn to her or for her to be the person he needed.

I can see this, if only because of the precedent set in season three. Lindsay shut Danny out in season three, and then turned to him when she dealt with her issues and wanted to get a little somethin' somethin'. Save for RSRD, I don't think we've ever seen Lindsay try to be there for Danny in any way. So I don't think it's that much of a stretch that he didn't turn to her.

I was dubious when spoilers announced that Riki Sandoval would be returning in S5 despite S4's climactic farewell wherein she announced she was moving away. My suspicious mind, well-schooled in the various breeds of TV Drama Llamas, immediately recognized the pungent reek of Potential Baby Drama. I cringed, but other fans held out hope that maybe the writers wouldn't hitch their creative wagon to such a beaten old nag. Maybe Riki would return because she decided that she wanted more than just a fling.

Hahaha. None is so optimistic as the fan who sees the train coming but can't clear the tracks. After seeing Ausiello's most recent batch of spoilers(and oh, what a viciously apt term that is here), it's a safe bet that Riki is coming back with a bun in the oven. That's bad enough. What makes me reach for the puke pail is Ausiello telling us that Lindsay will "ride to the rescue".

La_Guera, I always think your posts are made of win, but I have to offer a different perspective here. The more I think about this storyline, the more I wonder if the germ of it wasn't, "What if Danny had a kid?" And then they put Danny in this horrible position that made him responsible for a kid's death, and brought him into a sexual relationship with the kid's mother, since they're not going to show Danny knocking Lindsay up. Sorry, but a) Anna herself said pregnant women can't work with chemicals in the lab and b) where's the drama?

So then Danny gets this other woman pregnant. It's a second chance, an opportunity to in some small way atone for the death of Ruben. A new beginning that can of course be fraught with drama, since NY is after all, a drama.

That's nauseating in itself, but what gets the bile spewing are the implications these spoilers make about Riki. Why would Lindsay need to rescue Danny from her? Danny slept with her of his own accord, and even if it turns out she was poking holes in the condoms in an effort to make Danny "replace" Reuben(and I almost yorked typing that), that doesn't make Danny a dithering damsel in distress. I'm sure he knew how his winkie worked when he bedded her. He could've kept it in his pants.

I doubt the rescue really has anything to do with that. Maybe it's more literal or she saves his butt on the job again a la "All in the Family."

Are they implying that Riki got pregnant, but not with Danny's child? Or maybe it is Danny's child and she's going to take him to court with claims that he refuses to recognize paternity and is a deadbeat dad. Even better, maybe she'll tell him she's expecting and then abort the child just so he can "know what it feels like to lose a child." Never mind that that would make zero sense and mean Riki has lost two children. But this is CSI:NY. Who needs common sense when you can just jerk off the Drama Llama?

Eh, given that Danny and Rikki haven't seemed hostile towards each other at all, I don't really see it going that way at all.

Either way, Riki comes off as either a manipulative liar or a vengeful, crazed harpy, and Lindsay emerges as an obsessed hypocrite. Oh, gee golly whiz, sign me up.

Lucky Danny! :lol:

I've always wanted my Falcon Crest with dead bodies in it.

:lol: That is a sig quote waiting to happen.

Is Lindsay as damaged as Danny? I feel an entire thread could be dedicated to this question, but in my opinion (and in short), no, she's not. Danny's much more damaged than her. If you'd like to hear my opinion, though, PM me, because I don't think this is the place to lay out my case.

Personally, I'd love to see a thread on this. It's come up before, and it's an interesting topic for discussion, one I'm sure many people have strong opinions on.

 

[JellyBelly]

So, by your own standards, Danny's f**kedup-ness should mean it's more than valid for him to do what he did but instead, he's a 'scumbag' who 'deserves to suffer and grovel at Lindsay's feet' and 'do everything he can to make it up to her'. And we still don't know the status of things between them, apart from Lindsay saying she was 'so stupid to ever get involved with Danny'. By the way, getting involved =/= relationship.

The hypocrisy/double standards here is astounding.

Okay, you seriously need to stop throwing the accusations around. I haven't called Danny a 'scumbag' who 'deserves to suffer and grovel at Lindsay's feet' and 'do everything he can to make it up to her'. I don't think that at all, and I don't see anything in my post that indicates that I do. So just stop it. I don't know who's opinion you're quoting but it is not mine, if it was then yes you'd have every right to call me on my double standards. :scream: Is this the debating standard aroud here? Put words in someone's mouth (post) just for an opportunity to slag them off because they like a character you don't? It's ridiculous.

So yes, by my own standards it's valid that Danny slept with Rikki because of his grief and guilt, I don't like that he did it because I choose to believe that there was 'something' between him and Lindsay. I don't hate him for it or think he deserved to be strung up by his balls because of it and I certainly don't think that he should be groveling.

So are you saying that Lindsay being as damaged as Danny precludes her from being selfish? I don't understand that...

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that I don't see it that way, I see them as two pretty messed up people whose own issues have led to this situation. I can no more call Lindsay selfish than I can call Danny a scumbag. See post above.

It almost Is like there's a double standard there, maybe because Lindsay's female, and women are supposed to be like that, but Danny's male and men aren't supposed to be like that.

Yes, it would be a double standard if I had actually said the things I've been accused of saying in terms of Danny and his behaviour. But I didn't, so no double standard.

Whatever happens with it, I'm happy that Lindsay will finally get a chance to stand on her own without Danny propping her.

I am also looking forward to seeing some Lindsay development away from Danny.

Is Lindsay as damaged as Danny? I feel an entire thread could be dedicated to this question, but in my opinion (and in short), no, she's not. Danny's much more damaged than her. If you'd like to hear my opinion, though, PM me, because I don't think this is the place to lay out my case.

I'd be happy to hear your opinion, although I suspect a whole thread would be pretty pointless in drawing a conclusion, although the discussion would be interesting.

However, I do like that the two of them will (apparently) still be friends and still be able to work together. I think that speaks volumes. They were friends and colleagues first before anything else, and I'm glad that it seems as though they're going to be able to go back to that.

I'm really hoping that we get something in the first episode where they decide to be friends so they can get back to that sooner rather than later.

On another topic, I like that Flack's sister's gonna be a bad girl. Maybe her and Adam have a cosmic connection... or maybe a past :lol: No matter what, I think the two of them interacting together will be great. I'm excited for this season.

Me too!!

I can see one or the other explained away. Either she couldn't find a way to reach out to him or she felt he was shutting her out. But both? Really?

I don't know. I guess I just find it hard to believe that Lindsay did nothing to reach out to him. I know a lot of people here think she just expected him to know that she was there. I actually wonder if there's some truth in that. When Lindsay was struggling with her issues Danny was instinctively there for her. That's how their relationship was set up, Danny worked off his instincts. I often find in life that the way a relationship is set up is how it continues to play out. Maybe Lindsay assumed he would instinctively know she was there, because he's always 'known' how she operates before. But again, I don't see her behaviour as selfish, I see it as f*%^d up but not manipulative in the way that other's seem to.

 

[kinkapoodles]

I don't know. I guess I just find it hard to believe that Lindsay did nothing to reach out to him. I know a lot of people here think she just expected him to know that she was there. I actually wonder if there's some truth in that.

According to her Monologue of Doom, she didn't do anything to reach out to him. She said she thought he would have came to her. She expected him to know she was there only because SHE thought they were in a relationship, which wasn't the case either. If so, he would have known she was there.

I just wonder how many times Lindsay would call Danny and hound him to go to lunch with her. It was apparent she doesn't talk to him much out of the office because in AiTF, she told Flack that Danny was off the day before and she hadn't talked to him.
Makes me think like she spends an awful lot of time calling and bothering him.

But again, I don't see her behaviour as selfish, I see it as f*%^d up but not manipulative in the way that other's seem to.

Well, I see her behavior as selfish and I always will.

 

[Kimmychu]

JellyBelly said:
Okay, you seriously need to stop throwing the accusations around. I haven't called Danny a 'scumbag' who 'deserves to suffer and grovel at Lindsay's feet' and 'do everything he can to make it up to her'. I don't think that at all, and I don't see anything in my post that indicates that I do. So just stop it. I don't know who's opinion you're quoting but it is not mine, if it was then yes you'd have every right to call me on my double standards. :scream: Is this the debating standard aroud here? Put words in someone's mouth (post) just for an opportunity to slag them off because they like a character you don't? It's ridiculous.

I apologize if it seemed that I was putting words into your mouth. I was referring to what's been said by a number of DL shippers about Danny ever since episode 4x16 took place. Yes, your post and your opinion that Lindsay's screwed up-ness is a reason for her behavior brought up the double standard issue, but the question of why this double standard exists is directed at those who've expressed that Danny is a 'cheating scumbag' who needs to 'suffer' and 'make it up to Lindsay'.

So yes, by my own standards it's valid that Danny slept with Rikki because of his grief and guilt, I don't like that he did it because I choose to believe that there was 'something' between him and Lindsay.

Thanks for the clarification.

So, if anyone who feels that way about Danny wants to explain this double standard, I'm very interested in knowing why it's okay for Lindsay to treat Danny badly because she's screwed up while Danny can't do the same even though he's screwed up too.

 

[JellyBelly]

I apologize if it seemed that I was putting words into your mouth. I was referring to what's been said by a number of DL shippers about Danny ever since episode 4x16 took place. Yes, your post and your opinion that Lindsay's screwed up-ness is a reason for her behavior brought up the double standard issue, but the question of why this double standard exists is directed at those who've expressed that Danny is a 'cheating scumbag' who needs to 'suffer' and 'make it up to Lindsay'.

Okay, I understand that, it just gets a little frustrating when you don't share that opinion yet it seems that all D/L fans are tarred with the same brush.

She expected him to know she was there only because SHE thought they were in a relationship, which wasn't the case either. If so, he would have known she was there.

We don't know the status of their relationship. It obviously wasn't the serious, committed relationship that some fans thought it was but I seriously doubt it was the nothing that other's thought it was. We just don't know. I think she expected him to know she was there because she just expects him to know her. I guess the bottom line for me is that I don't think tptb ever intended her to be unreasonably selfish. I think they intended to show them as both being f*&^d up and at that point in time at least, not a good match for each other. Until they show it differently I shall continue to just be intrigued by how they both ended up here.