Luv da button. ...Give in to da button... :lol: "At least as difficult " I will agree with. Probably circumvents most of what's to follow here :lol: I can understand the speculation. I dunno know why Lindsay hasn't had many recent storylines that don't tie back into DL. I'm not sure I care :lol:. Who knows the rational of the producers. I can only say that it was noticeable, especially early on in this last season, that Lindsay had very little to do, and I wasn't in the least unhappy about it. I'm not saying that being a part of DL isn't difficult, just that it's not more difficult. I would also think that the producers view DL as valuable in terms of a certain viewership for the show, I don't think they view it as somehow 'lesser,' I don't think they can afford to. You break it you buy it, in that regard. I do think, however, that giving Carmine a huge part in the Box whereas Lindsay had less to do, was telling. Meh. It's ultimately the showrunner's baby, and who knows what evil lurks, yada I do think Anna's RL pregnancies have determined a lot of what she may have been asked to do on the show, more than 'we can't give her that she'd suck' or 'we hafta give her that cos it'll be awesome.' S3 is a case in point. The dark secret was a great opportunity for Anna, a way to accomodate her maternity leave and still offered a great backstory for Lindsay. Didn't come off so well, imo. Was her testimony scene in the courtroom somehow less difficult than her big schpiel in Right Next Door? Challenging in different ways due different subject matter but both still requiring tapping into some emotions and deeper places. Neither were stellar moments for her. It may well be that there was a learning curve of sorts for the show in all of that too that's been playing out since. I'm not about to give Anna or Carmine allowances because romance is 'hard.' :lol: I think 'kissing and making goo goo eyes at each other,' as you say, has actually constituted very little of DL's relationship. Most of their interaction is not sexual. I think their pool table dalliance in Snow Day was, ironically, one of Anna's better, more energized performances, though she, and Danny and Lindsay, were no less annoying to me, perhaps even moreso in how the ep wrapped than how it started :lol:. Lindsay knew what she wanted, Anna had a clear line with the character no doubt. :lol: (I feel slightly at a disadvantage in all this here because I really don't follow DL or Lindsay to recall minutiae that you all seem to discuss in such detail. :lol: Most of the time there's just this vague sense of exasperation and sometimes distaste :lol: For me that's telling too). Acting is famously about "being private in public." I think that to be convincing and believable means having your emotions at your fingertips, and you'd hafta be unafraid and willing to go where needed. I think that's true whether it's related to romance or not. Why relationships became so prominent on each show in a franchise that avoided it for so long is a bigger question, and I only hope it doesn't further dilute NY. It does lead me to be quite cynical in considering it. I'm sure people do dismiss DL, and Lindsay because of it, and I do think they were a hugely contrived pairing and imposition. I don't think that DL isn't challenging to portray, I'm saying the writing and realization of it comes off as inconsistent, confuddling, and ultimately exasperating and unengaging. And I think that Lindsay has so few other things either given to her or going for her that this becomes a defining element of her character and what's associated with her. I think goo goo eyes are the least of her worries. I think the Dark Secret should have been a great story for her character, but again felt poorly realized. I think most times Anna is asked to be emotional her performances feel scripted and ultimately unconvincing. I dunno if that means anything that requires a general vulnerability equates with an unimpressive performance, but I don't think that Lindsay's relationship with Danny is the only example of such from Anna, and I'm still not convinced that kind of vulnerability is so distinctive or removed from any other. Nor that it actually somehow conversely illustrates just how wonderful Anna is as an actor. The work she did on MI doesn't lead me to extend her credit in a larger sense either. To be clearer then. I do think Lindsay's popularity has benefited due her attachment with Danny. I don't think she as a character has benefited from primarily being a love interest. But I'm also not convinced that Anna would do much with anything else tossed her way. We'll see what she gets in S6 with Danny being injured and a newborn child. Ya know. Baited breath an' all that :lol: I can't say I share similar views or intrigue with Lindsay as a character, but that's just me. I think I was already being worn out in my benevolent tolerance of her by the time Snow Day rolled around . I caught up on S4 more than I sat thru it, I wasn't around much at the time. That ambivalence wore away over S3 and started to turn in S4, but didn't fully become outright annoyance and occasionally disdain until this past season. S5 I got hugely peeved at the change in direction DL took and the focus it was getting, especially after the initial spoilers for the season suggested that Danny and Lindsay both were to get separate, independent storylines; I became unapologetically and vastly fed up with having to sit thru it all. I think part of the problem with DL has been that ambiguity that you describe. Especially after Snow Day. S4 was utterly perplexing where they were concerned, as much as S3 was in the path that they took in getting together. :lol: See, I never saw Angell as anything except another homicide detective, like Maka, like Sophia on Vegas (who was really good imo). When Angell appeared in S3 I don't think she was a Mary Sue at all. She was just the next recurring cop for the season. How flawed are they supposed to be...? :lol: I had no idea if she'd be back in any episode, or even the following season, and had no real opinion on it. I think Angell didn't have much to give her depth or backstory, and was a good character due consistent performances and by way of the personality and humor that came thru, an attitude and swagger that fit in and played well. She held her own with those she was with. I don't think she stood out for any reason, I don't think she was favored in any way, I don't think she was universally wangsty or the like. I think she was enough of a presence to stand on her own without her pairing with Flack. She, like Sinclair and Gerrard, was a recurring who served a purpose within the show, though hers was added onto in S5, ie. become involved and then get deaded. I think that her death pre-empted knowing what she might have been like had there been space or interest in making her a regular instead, or developing her further. She had the most appearances in a season in S5 than she did in any prior. I don't really feel that we knew her well enough to think she was perfect or flawed. I do very much have the opinion that EV has the chops to have played anything that might have been written for Angell. I'm not actually terribly keen on delving into Mary Suedom as a general arguement pro or con for any character, and it's not something I tend to refer to often, the above may be the first ever :lol:, but I can understand how Lindsay gets pegged as that especially because of her relationship with Danny, who is undeniably a central character on NY. I think that Lindsay is exasperating because we're not supposed to see her flaws as flaws, that she's somehow excusable, she's rarely held to account for any mistakes like the rest are (your petty rules don't apply to me). She does feel favored in that respect, she does sometimes come across to me as wangsty and entitled (everything is somehow about me), she was hired for an apparently spectacular and tenacious blood drop analysis (I'm a genius), possesses a generic expertise in everything depicted for us thru an endless succession of behold-my-brilliance-demonstrations (I'm really really a genius), indulge me I'm pregnant (life is hard but I'm plucky and stalwart and adorable and overcoming everything due my awesomeness all the same am I not?), look I'm funny and charming (spray on condom, any scene coasting with Flack, any and every demonstration) and tuff and stronk (I tackle perpage, I bust chops in interrogation, and gosh darn it, I'm from ...where again? Crap, can't remember ). That's partly the writing, and partly the performance. I don't have an opinion on her haircut as some do :lol: I'm not sure what the last word on a Mary Sue is or who has it. I'm pretty sure I don't really care. Lindsay should feel a more complex character, as complex and layered as her back story should lead her to be, but somehow she isn't. :lol: ah, you see, I don't remember her "I need to know why" moment at the end of Stealing Home. Doesn't mean she didn't have a character moment as you describe, and I'm not saying it wasn't important to her character, whether anyone else was there or not. I am saying it apparently wasn't one that memorable to me, didn't have the same impact, to the degree I could recall it off the top of my head to add it to the list :lol: I had to look it up to understand your reference. I do think she was generally at her best in S2 as a character, but she still had moments that annoyed me even then. I had far more patience for them then :lol:. I just went back to revisit some of those scenes. Her monologue in Right Next Door still causes me to vaguely wince. Stealing Home was an ep I remembered far more for the threesome storyline, and more for Stella, Hawkes and Mac than for Lindsay and the mermaid. (Can I say too that all the sound f/x to match every zoom and cut, and every computer graphic, greivously stood out and was hugely annoying :lol It was a good ep for Hawkes too. Lindsay's early attitude towards suspects came off with a certain snideness that made me wish for a Gibbs headslap upside, even though Flack was standing beside her doing much the same. I think Lindsay was best in the scene with the father, better there even than in the end going to see the guy in prison to ask 'why.' As for depicting relationships, I'm not sure we're necessarily disagreeing :lol: My point about relationships is that they are still emotion and intent, just like other kinds of scenes :lol:. My feeling is that they should not be kept or considered somehow separate from everything else. It's another aspect of telling stories. I think they may not necessarily differ in the nature of the challenge it provides for an actor in that it requires them channeling emotions to infuse the scene with a believable spontanaeity and life. I might venture to say that most actors want to feel, want to be challenged to do so, to find a way to serve a character and a moment, whatever it happens to be, to find out what it is, and to find a way to get there, inside out or outside in or some combo of both, making choices, and ultimately getting out of one's head to just do it. I think actors are as much on an arc as anyone else, that there will be times when roles or things within a role will have a deeper personal meaning than others, things they might dig into more. I think challenges are probably the juice for an actor, other than simply just wanting to make a living. My point was that scenes between characters in a romantic relationship are very often not about "romance" at all. My point is that I don't think they're categorically harder than other scenes, not that they aren't 'hard' or challenging in their own right :lol:. I think acting is hard. I'm also saying that Anna's track record with emotional stuff in general, in any scene that places that kind of demand on her, isn't consistently convincing or moving or even interesting. At least to me. I am often distracted in those scenes by her performances in them, that duality again, the schism her performance often seems to suffer from, that lack of seamlessness. That's my point :lol:. I think :lol:. Long and confusing. And now, coffee. I'm sure this will make no sense to me whatsoever once I have some coffee.