How to Revitalize CSI: NY *SPOILERS*

Excellent points all around. I'm hesitant to jump on the idea of Flack having feelings for Danny, simply because I'm not sure I trust the writers with the subtlety necessary for that (when they aren't trying, the subtext is fantastic--when they are trying, I fear the worst)...

With recurring characters and certain main characters--quality of scenes is more important than quantity of scenes, in my opinion. Sid or Adam can do such great things with a few little scenes, and I know the other characters could if given more chances. Take Hawkes, for example--he's usually in the background, and think how some key scenes would make his character really stand out. When there's only 42 minutes to tell (usually) two stories, with six main characters and three recurring characters (if I count right, don't quote me on it :lol, that doesn't divide into a lot of time for each person on screen. So make the most of it!

Speaking of Hawkes, I would definitely love to see more about his background. Hawkes is a fascinating character, and I'd love to know more about what makes him tick.

I also agree about Lindsay--the character seems like much more of a scientist than a cop, and I'd like the show to illustrate that more often.

I wonder if the Gerrard storyline is going to carry over into next season? If so, I also hope that they build it up and make it something unique to this show, rather than feeling like a recycled storyline from countless other shows.

I'm glad to see more story arcs that last over several episodes. I hope the writers continue with this next season--keep the regular viewers coming back for more. I'd also like to see the continuation of storylines that are started--if they start something, I want them to finish it. The dead woman at the end of that one episode (forgive me, I can't remember which one it was) is a mystery that we never saw solved. Now, of course, the season isn't over and they could still revisit that story, but if they don't it's a shame, because there was a lot of possibility there.

That's something that I notice a lot with NY--there are so many possibilities, and it seems like the show misses them. In my opinion, it's like the writers sometimes look at the opportunities and choose the easy one, the cliche choice, the over-done plot device, rather than choosing a more unusual possibility...

 

I don't chirp

Easy for me. The show takes place in New York. Then make the show New York. Sometimes I watch this show and I don't even know what city they're in. It's almost like they don't care to tell real New York stories, all they care about is dangling half naked women in front of the camera and exploiting exotic plots that are shallow and boring. Remember when that rat ate a bullet? A billion times more interesting.

They chose the city for a reason. It's completely lost on me now. There are no Asians, no Hispanics, no African Americans, no Indians, no... you get my drift. It's just Whitey McWhiterson with his white wife and white kids killing each other for white money white white white, etc. Jesus Christ, I'd love to see some color. I'd love it if they went to the Bronx, or Brooklyn, or Queens. I HATE THE MANHATTAN ELITE! Why would I wanna watch a show about them?

I don't hate Lindsay or want her gone, but why did they make her character a non-New Yorker? Why couldn't they add a Latina or a Chinese woman, etc? It's like every season they do everything they can to make this show NOT look/sound/feel like the city. The stories don't have a New York feel. It's not like you go to NY and open the Times and see a bunch of stories about rich, white people killing each other in unusual ways. You have a cast of nearly ten people and only ONE of them is black? Seriously? Seriously?

This is the saddest statement in the world: but I give props to CSI: Miami for its diversity. 3 out of the 7 main characters are minorities. Two of them get more screen time than the white characters. The show constantly deals with stories revolving the Cuban community, and said characters are portrayed in a myriad of realistic ways - you have humble Cubans, killer Cubans, soft Cubans, cuddly Cubans, Pokemon Cubans... Hell, one time they had two Puerto Ricans, and there aren't even a lot of us in Miami!

The only time CSI: NY visited the Dominican community they had them dancing in the streets like a bunch of unemployed morons. Right. Because all Latino people do all day is dance salsa in the streets and drink and be loud. The only thing missing was the plantain leaves covering their special parts. I can't wait to see them visit Chinatown. What will it be like, a bunch of Chinese people attacking each other with chopsticks, driving badly, and aborting their daughters?

Give me a break, Zuiker. And all the character drama? Really could do without. I know the show will never be the way it was during season one, but could we care? Could we care just a little bit? Yeah, I think we can. Let's put the bongs down and care.

 

Now Top41 do you want Flack and Danny in a relationship or just have Flack be gay?? I really love the idea of Flack being a gay character (doubt NY will do it) but I'm not so sure about Danny and Flack dating. I think if done well it could be really great. I mean image the stories the son of a cop legend dating the son of a guy in the mafia that could be great TV. But with Danny “dating” Lindsay I doubt next year they will just make him gay.

I’d definitely love to see Flack stories, Adam stories etc… Do stories on characters that they have never done stories on before. I want to know more about these people. We learned that Adam was a victim of child abuse; well go into that for a story next season. For Christ sakes we haven’t even met Flack dad that I’d LOVE to see happen next year.

 

Great thread, Top! Alrighty, here's my season four wish list:

Mac: Play up the tension with Gerrard. Mac's character can be a bit dull without conflict. They seem to have completely dropped any Mac/Danny conflict, which is a shame because Gary and Carmine both played that nicely. But give Mac some conflict, some depth, something to work with other than just his relationship with Peyton.

Stella: It would be fantastic if they gave her HIV. I don't want to see her die or even get sick, but having a condition like that would certainly force her to take additional precautions on the job.

Danny: Bring back Drama Queen Danny!!! Mature Danny is boring. Give him angst and emotional torment. Carmine shines with the really emotional stuff. Some mention of Louie would be fan-f'ing-tastic. What the hell happened there? Also, the character is such a great man's man that I'm far more interested in his relationships with male colleagues than female. Screw this Lindsay thing. If it had been handled in a way that didn't alter Danny's character, I'd say fantastic, but that's not how the writers went about it. Drop the high school romance and move on.

Lindsay: Shoot her. Drop her down an elevator shaft. I don't care how they do it, just get it done. If the writers are unwilling to do what needs to be done, then go with Top's suggestion and just keep her in the lab. Sent Adam into the field and keep Lindsay in the lab. Anna lacks the range to handle anything other than the very lightest of storylines. Confine Lindsay's involvement to perhaps a little witty banter with her colleagues and I'd be happy.

Flack: For the love of God, let's acknowledge his gayness. We know he wants Danny, now let's see Flack know it. I realize I'll never see my ultimate dream of Danny waking up in Flack's apartment, but at least let Flack wrestle with that. Maybe he tells Danny how he feels, maybe he doesn't, but let's see that developed a bit.

Hawkes: Hill has been getting screwed big time. I still can't believe they had Danny strip down during one of Hawkes' biggest moments of the season. The writers owe Hawkes. BIG. There is so much there to develop that just hasn't been.

Supporting characters - Sid, Peyton, Adam: Excellent all around. More!

EDIT: To support what Midnight said, New York really isn't exclusively or even predominantly about the upper-class Manhattan dwelling white people. They are so many ethnicities and soci-economic backgrounds that make up the city, it's a shame to think anyone would be interested in only the rich white people. Miami dwells in the flavor or it's city (perhaps too much - there is more to Miami than just Cubans and drug lords) and it would be great to see New York show some of that diversity New York is so known for. Show us the plight of the immigrant, the life the cab drivers go home to, the people who struggle to survive in one of the US's most expensive cities. It's not all glamour.

 

Great TV! Although right now I'd settle for a storyline featuring them sharing the occassional off shift beer or just hanging out together.

Well, the third season still has a long way to go over here, so I'll have to wait and see how the rest of this season pans out first so this is more of a wishlist. But, more screen time for Flack would be nice, and I want to meet his legendary father too.

All the scenes with Hammerback are great, I would love more, especially as he has such good rapport going with the CSI's and I love his dark sense of humour and slight creepiness, he certainly adds to the episode.

Adam! I love Adam, more of his geekiness in the lab would be great and he deserves more screen time, I don't want to see him in the field particularly. There are already too many characters jostling for position, don't dilute it any further by adding more members to the team.

And talking of too many characters, it's OK to occassionally have episodes featuring just a few of the characters. I don't need to see them all every time. Giving everyone their chance to shine, without trying to fit too much into an episode could achieve some really great results.

Despite my desire to see Danny and Flack off shift together, I do dislike seeing too much 'soapiness'. A focus on some strong storylines, multi episode arcs and the odd 'normal' murder and killer would be nice and refreshing. That's not to say that season 3 hasn't been great so far, but it would be good to consider the positive points from this season as a basis for the next.

Also, so Danny's going to have a rough ride in the finale. Whilst dwelling on this may not be great, and I wouldn't like it to change what makes his character great, it would be good if it could at least be referred to occassionally, and not just in the first episode of the season.

 

I must be on of the few that sees Danny and Flack as just very close friends or even a brotherly bond. Hey, to each their own.

What I would love to see is head back towards what they had in season 1. I love that season, the darkness, the grittiness. To me, you lose New York when you lose the grit. Also, I wouldn't mind if Lindsey went to the lab permanently. She does nothing for me. I would love of some of the non-leads to get more screentime then ten seconds. *gets off her soapbox*

 

No doubt Hill is being screwed big time. The writers sure do owe Hawkes BIG time.

 

Two things I'd like to see next year.
#1. The occasional episode that has only one big case.
#2. That damn shower scene.

Is that SO much to ask?

 

*echoes that*

Two things I'd love to see as well. I really enjoy the episodes that have the team working on only one big case because it allows more room for character development.

 

^A shower scene? I might die. The silence during our weekly chat when Danny took off his shirt was legendary.

My one true wish would be to give Hawkes and Flack the screen time that they deserve. Of course, Danny is nice eye candy, even more so when he is being melodramatic, but let him and Mac fade into the background. Lindsay has more than a glimmer of hope when she is in labrat mode, but don't ever put her in a scene with Adam - he plays her up with a single sentence.

Oh, and excellent post, Midnight. It would be as if they based a show in DC and all we saw was Capitol Hill. Wait? They've already done that you say?

 

Great Wish Lists, everyone! And my own list does echo many of everyone else's desires...

Definitely, explore the unease between Mac/Gerrard, but not a carbon copy of what's already been done elsewhere a zillion times. Yes, something original would be nice, and I agree with whomever mentioned Gerrard's honesty in his reply to Mac - goodness, a boss/nemesis who isn't one dimensional! Woo hoo! Great idea; I loved it when the Vegas CSI had Ecklie actually get a heart and conscience for a few episodes, it made him so much more interesting than simply the run-of-the-mill prick boss. I'd like to see Gerrard play a similar role, in that he's not just *bad*. Flesh him out, and give he and Mac some scenery to chew on.

Bring Reed back, I loved the budding relationship between he and Mac. And while they're at it, make sure Peyton comes back, too.

Bring back Angsty Drama Queen Danny, please! Yes, we know that everyone eventually matures, even Danny :lol: but let's face it, he is who he is, and you simply can't give a character a personality transplant in the third season, without raising some eyebrows - not to mention raising some ire. His twitchiness and temperament are what makes him such a compelling character. No more White Bread Danny! (And for corn's sake, could we hear a peep about brother Louie? Or perhaps see he and Danny out having a beer sometime next season?)

Danny/Flack? Verrrrry interesting. Although I tend to agree with Faylinn, I don't necessarily trust the writers to give the storyline the subtle, intelligent touch that it would need to fly successfully, although there's no doubt in my mind that both actors could carry it off beautifully. I'm not necessarily asking for a relationship here, since from what I see, it's pretty much one-sided. But I'd love to see Flack finally admit his feelings to/for Danny, and have both men spend a good amount of the season finding ways to come to terms with that. And of course, lots of male bonding in the meantime.

Danny/Lindsay? No, no, and no. I'm not a big fan of regular characters hooking up romantically, anyway - if it has to happen at all on a crime-based show, I'd prefer to see a regular with a recurring character, or a regular character with someone offscreen, who is mentioned but not necessarily seen. And I really object when I see little or no romantic chemistry between the intended couple, but alas, that's a whole 'nuther thread on it's own, isn't it? :lol:

Lindsay: She's great in the lab, so let's have the character doing what she's best at. She's a good scientist, and obviously enjoys geeking out over the evidence in the lab. Keep her there more often, with more lightweight storylines. The character (and the actress) doesn't do angst very well, IMO.

Bring back Rambo Stella, and ditch the traumatized/abused Stella storylines for awhile. Although it does sound like we'll be seeing a reveal of more of her past, and that should be very intriguing.

More Flack/Hawkes storylines, how about Flack's father? And as someone mentioned above, more of Hawkes feeling a difference being out in the field instead of being an ME, and I'd love to see a follow up to his medical past/mentors, etc. as we got a glimpse of in the "...Azrael" episode. And of course, don't forget our delightful secondary characters, Adam - Sid - Peyton - Det. Angell.

And finally...well, um, yeah. Shower Scene.

 

Yes, YES, YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE - *inhales* - EEEEEEEEEEEESSS!

*ahem*

Please to be looking at my icon for more information.

You guys have all brought up great stuff, and I really hope the TPTB will actually do something about it all.

As for my wishlist? (Apart from what's already mentioned above.)

1. I want a showdown between Danny and Flack. You're saying, "Huh? Why?!" Well, I want Flack to finally show some reaction to what happened to him in Charge of this Post, and I want the TPTB to explain why Danny wasn't there at all for a very good friend when the guy almost got blown to bloody pieces. Might be a little OOC for Flack to lash out at Danny after what will happen to Danny in this season's finale, but damn, I'd love to see them end up in a heated arguement and hear Flack say to Danny, "You weren't there for me, Messer, remember that?"

2. Hawkes. HAWKES, WHERE ART THOU, OH HAWKES? Have you become the Invisible Man? Are you off somewhere saving children and little, old ladies with Superman? You need to get back to your show pronto and fill the screen with your sexy face and voice once more! Are you listening, TPTB?

3. I'm going to be blunt. I want the TPTB to drop the D/L ship, at least until Lindsay's character is way more fleshed out. The way the TPTB have written her so far (two seasons in, already!), all I can say about her is that she's Danny's love interest or that she's a PTSD wreck who hates talking to mommies and should be in a psychiatric care instead of being a CSI who deals with deathdeathdeath everyday. The way things are going, she has the equivalent character presence of a blow-up doll. C'mon, TPTB, give her a chance to grow independantly and release poor Danny from making those awful faces on screen everytime he has to go all mushbag and OOC.

4. More Stella background, please. Getting her roughed up by a wacko boyfriend and then letting herself get cut by glass that's slathered in HIV-infected blood doesn't constitute as character development. Tell us more about her.

 

Given that I've seen all of two episodes of season 3 so far, maybe it's a bit early to be posting a wishlist for season 4, but what the hell ...

1) If the Gerrard thing is to continue, yes, please do not make it the usual, tired cliched pap of bad boss oppressing the righteous investigator, who just wants to do his job, God damn it!! Puts me too much in mind of the old Simpsons parody of Dirty Harry, which gleefully mocked all those worn-out plot devices. Mac isn't perfect and might benefit from being occasionally called out by a superior. There is seldom only one right answer and it would be nice to see the show tackle some of the gray areas that must come up in police work.

2) Please hire a Continuity Fairy. The number of odd, dangling plot lines that just appear to be forgotten or go nowhere is really becoming a distraction. The supposed mob connections of Danny's family alone would make for a raft of interesting stories, but the whole issue (along with the poor brother) appears to have disappeared.

3) As much as it would be interesting (and potentially fun) to see the show explore Flack's rather obvious crush on Danny, I wouldn't want it happening onscreen, not with this production company and set of writers. All the CSI's have a very shaky (and sometimes appalling) track record when dealing with non-vanilla, straight-as-a-die relationships or characters. Scorn and mockery seems to be the usual route. I'd hate to see Flack reduced to a bad stereotype, which would be the most likely outcome. Sexuality on television is so black and white; the idea that a character could be either gay or bi and yet still be capable and tough is too foreign a concept still. Let's just hope the show reconnects their friendship and we'll play "Spot the Subtext".

That reads more like a list of complaints, which may be very unfair as the show is still one of my favourites. On the whole, it still is very good, but some of these issues, especially the rampant soap opera storylines that seem to have taken over, could change that if it continues unchecked.