"No Way Out" Discussion *SPOILERS*

You're so right :lol:

I really liked the episode. I don't know what to write, though (Everyone else has already posted and I agree with you)

The drill scene was awesome! Good episode with some great team moments.

 

releasing from tack, feel free to continue the discussion.

 

Not the best episode ever, but still a great episode. Wasn't the kid who played Frankie also in The Great Debaters? I wonder why they didn't check the room where Reggie and Frankie where for clearance. When Frankie came out I about jumped out of my skin. It's too bad Frankie was like that. I don't blame Langston for hoping the best for him.I wonder where Riley learned some of her skills.
I so adored Greg being so sweet to that poor Dad and could have kissed him. I could probably always kiss him. . I'm glad he listened to him and was so compassionate. What I like about the show is the characters. The regulars are so great. I do miss funny Greg in a way, but it's also nice to see him turn out so well.

 

Well, physics ate my life for the past few days, but I finally got to sit down and watch the episode.

Overall I liked it even though it wasn't very CSI. I really loved Greg's scenes with the dad. I don't like the lack of Wendy lately though. I really wish that she'd followed in Greg's footsteps and became a CSI level 1 rather then bring in Reily. I thought the hostage scenes were a little bit slow for CSI. I think it was like 20 minutes of the episode without cutting into different scenes at the lab/ect.

I find that the relationship between the new team is forced. And being shoved into my face. Almost every episode has a diner/team building scene and it just feels unnatural. A hefty part of me is just bitter that the writers neglected these scenes with the old team for so many years. However, I found their bond to be richer and stronger even without having to show them eating together every episode.

This new team is just so happy and perfect.
Which is fine, but I find boring and one dimensional.
Grissom's team was so dynamic and complex. It was so much more then just everybody getting along and being happy. Their arguments/disagreements/fights/struggles are what brought them close together. And Grissom being an extremely flawed supervisor also took a toll on the team whereas Catherine seems to be flawless this time around (Which is fine and appropriate, I'm just saying). Since Grissom straight up sucked with emotions and comforting people, it was so much more powerful when he opened up to someone. Catherine will comfort anyone at anytime and knows how to deal with emotional situations, which makes it less of a leap when she reaches out to someone.
One of my favorite scenes from the good old days is when Warrick blows up at Griss and tells him "I can't be like you, I'm not a robot". Or when Nick clashes with Grissom over science vs sympathy when it comes to victims and their families. Or how Catherine and Sara's relationship develops from hate to friendship.
To me the old team was so diverse and so much more then just a "happy team". But then I guess it takes fights/tears/laughter/forgiveness to upgrade from a simple CSI team to a CSI family.

Well, this rant is mostly just a victim of my bitterness. And it's not really directed at anyone personally. I just adored and was completely attached to the old team as you might have gathered. It's not that I don't like the new team, it's that I was so in love with Grissom's team that I find the new one bland in comparison.
Which might not be fair since they've only had 7 episodes as opposed to 9 years. I just don't think they have a fighting chance for me.

Also, I think I should give a shout out to the composer.
The music in the end scene was gorgeous!
CSI should really invest in more piano time.

 

I guess I like to watch teams that work together instead of fighting one another.

Grissom played favourites and treated some of his team as if they were the black sheep of the family or in Quentin Taratino's famous term, "the b**tard stepchild." For me, that was painful to watch and left me feeling pretty bitter at the end of an episode.

I mean Warrick left a CSI alone and she was murdered and his reward was to be taken on a rollercoaster? I don't mean to slam Warrick, this was about Grissom's poor leadership skills.

I don't really find this new team 'forced' at all. It's nice to see people getting along and supporting one another. Grissom's team was fractious. If anything I found that last scene in For Warrick forced.

So with all due respect, I guess I saw it differently and find this new team a bit easier to digest. I like harmony not discourse.

 

Fair enough. I won't deny that I'm a fan of angst, tragedy, and stuggle. Because for me, those are the factors that scream emotion and cause intense moments. If I had it my way, Harry would have died in the end.

However I do disagree with Grissom having favorites. I think his poor leadership and faults affected his team equally. And I think he was often unaware when he did something wrong on a personal level.
And I loved Grissom's poor leadership skills. It made him human. And fun to watch.

I like harmony. But I like harmony after the storm. Not before, during, and after.

PS. You live in Canada, right? Me too. I don't know what time it is there, but it's 2:10am here. I feel slightly pathetic debating with you so late.

 

I think it's the writer's way of showing the difference in the team's supervisor. Grissom was not the type to be around people when he didn't need to be, so the writer's kept the team's personal moments for few-and-far-between intervals (which was a shame). Plus, when you add Sara as a team member, that's two out of the five that weren't socially active. Catherine, being a person more comfortable when she's around others, would more than likely reflect that personality onto her team. With this new team, Greg and Riley seem to carry on the people-person vibe, Nick is kind of back & forth between outgoing and introverted, and Langston is probably the most quiet of the new team, but yet he's real good with people. With that new dynamic, the old show-no-personal-team-moments strategy just doesn't fit.

You've got to remember that this is a new 'team'. I think they're in a period of still getting to know each other. Yes, Cath, Nick & Greg have all worked closely together before - but that was with Grissom in charge and Greg beginning as a CSI. Also look at the fact that Catherine's always been the 'mother' of the team, always seeming to smooth things out when problems between the team - like giving Grissom a nudge to send Sara a plant, or calming down Warrick in the (women's) bathroom after he & Nick had a mini blow-up over a case, etc. Now that the 'mother' is in charge, there's certain to be a different dynamic. Even think back to the teaser in this episode after they finished their training drill, Cath quipped "be nice kiddies".

In this new-but-familiar role as supervisor, Cath actually has to lead the team. When she was in charge of Swing in season 5, she had Nick & Warrick with her. They didn't really need to be supervised, other than what cases they should work, They were seasoned at the job. Plus Catherine was different as supervisor at that time because she was still trying to get Grissom's respect as an equal instead of his 'right hand'. When Grissom was in charge, the entire team was seasoned. He didn't really need to supervise them very much (which is good since he sucked at it). With this new team, Catherine's got one seasoned CSI (Nick), one with a few years experience (Greg), one with 'some' experience (Riley), and one with basically just a medical background and no real CSI experience (Ray).

As for being 'flawless' - just wait. I'm sure there will be some screwups and disagreements along the way. After all, when you start a new/different job, you usually 'play nice' with your new co-workers for a while to start with, without having blow-ups, right?

 

I completely agree that in the average workplace people get along and that friction would be very annoying to have around. For a TV series though usually characters will clash to create interest which will usually get resolved at some point.

I think Wendy is one of the best things to happen to CSI. I think she could have easily started off as a CSI in season 1 and became a fan favorite. She would have probably been my favorite female of the show.
I'd also like to see how Hodges reacted to that. And then Mandy could potentially get more screentime as she lacks it.

I wasn't suggesting that the writers recreate the old team, I just don't like where this one is going. Which to me, is a very utopia-like team.
I'm just annoyed that the writers finally decided to start showing team moments now that half of the original team is gone.
Now I'd rather just see scenes related to the case, which is a complete flip to how I used to feel.

Harry Potter.
Yeah, I'm one of those.

 

Well I'm glad Harry didn't die, my daughter would have been devastated.

I'm a fan of angst and tragedy, but only if it's balanced out very well such as in a show like ER-which to me is still one of the best TV shows ever produced, yes I think even better than CSI. And they've won Emmys galore, CSI has never won an Emmy for acting or drama only for special effects. While I think the shows deserves, I also think the writers hyperfocus on one to three charcters simply hurt its chances. It's focus on the science didn't help much.

Stellar writing and amazing team dynamics made are what made ER work so well, while CSI was much to focussed on two to three characters while the rest were simply wall paper. There was no balance in personal drama, which is really what people want.

And I could have handled Grissom's poor leadership skills had he progrssed, but he regressed and got worse.

The only characters who grew in this show were Nick, Catherine and Greg-and they are the ones who are still there. Two burnt out and one (Grissom's favourite)got caught up in politics and was murdered.

So I like complex charactes who grow, Grissom didn't he got worse.

JMHO, we all see the show differently.

 

Well, I'm sure people will disagree with me also, but I completely agree with this. It all seems forced to me, too. It's like the writers are trying to get the fans to like the new characters too much, too quickly. I'm not a huge fan of angst, but I do like complex and controversial characters. They just add for more interesting writing. The storytelling is repetitve and characters have become too cliche. The writing has always been hit or miss. It's the characters who compel us to keep tuning in. The show has become too boring, IMO.
Watching these last episodes of ER reminded me of why I use to love that show. As the characters left, I gradually stopped watching. I think this is what will happen with CSI for me.
And back to this episode, there is no way that anyone could survive an arterial bleed for that long, even leaving the glass in place. Just another improbable plot hole, as well as others mentioned previously. I honestly thought this was one of the worst episodes so far. The only bright spots were Greg, and Hodges pretending to be Archie.