Why Lindsay Must Go (Part 3)

Ok. The cast is VERY talented. I totally agree. I dont know, It just doesnt STAND out and hit me, her "bad" acting. *shrugs* Well, agree to disagree. It doesnt effect how I see the show- I still love it.

 

She sticks out like a sore thumb. I will use one of your own arguments in another thread to make my point: you referenced pregnancy affecting her hearing, I believe. Pregnancy hormones are a blessing and a curse, and even the most hard-hearted of women (*stares balefully in the mirror*, will display emotion that they can keep buttoned up under other circumstances. We're not seeing that here at all. She couldn't summon up some tears during that scene? A look of disgust at Danny's less-than-enthusiastic response? I just do not agree that she is anything but "bad" in this role.

 

I love the show too, but really, if Lindsay ever left, would people really miss it. I mean if Flack, Danny, Stella, mac, etc...left the show, their would be a hole(they all have different connections and relationships with others, Lindsay has one connection and that's with danny.)

 

It's very telling that in Season 3 when Anna missed three episodes after she had the baby that nobody seemed to miss her. The show didn't seem like it had a gigantic hole in it. In fact, it was like she had never been on the show at all. It's a shame Lindsay only has a connection with Danny but then again, how would she connect with anybody else?

 

That's the problem with a one dimensional character and an actress without the chops to pull off much more. All attempts to attach her to other characters have come off as confusing and awkward ie her relationship to Mac, or bland and disconnected ie her relationship pretty much everyone else, particularly Flack, Adam and Stella.

 

So Lindsay has known for a few weeks that she's been preggo... I wonder how many arms the baby will come out with due to chemicals.

 

I smell a miscarriage *fingers crossed*

Ok, so i know in most threads a that comment like that would get me hung by the PC crusaders, but I ASSURE you I'm politically correct enough to only make a comment like that about a FICTIONAL baby. Fictional. Don't blow a gasket.

 

And nothing annoyed me more than that, in the entire course of the episode. The whole thing played Lindsay off as some "poor poor girl who is pregnant with no one to help her....boohoo." and Danny as the sleazy boyfriend/baby daddy who wouldn't pay child support. Really? Danny Messer?? The most emotional, empathetic, and caring character on the show?

Not only did this episode revert back to the old ways of season three (i.e. handicap Carmine to hold up Anna), it even further showcased how weak a link Anna Belknap is in this cast. HER character is pregnant...yet its Danny's storyline. The only things Danny can think to tell the couple at the end about her are "ZOMG shes from MONTANAAAA" and that she is a 'good thing'....and lets not forget that before this episode, they've only shared less than a handful of scenes together, none of which reference them having slept together, even in a flashback, to match up with the timeline that Lindsay is "weeks" pregnant. Anna's delivery of most of her lines was weak. I didn't mind the locker room confession that she was pregnant, but the whole running up the stairs "crying"? My 11 year old brother is better at crying on demand than she is...and that's just sad. I REALLY didn't care for the "i know you" scene, either...when has Danny ever showed that Lindsay shouldn't expect anything from him? Didn't he fly to Montana to be there for her during the trial? Didn't he constantly seek her out before that to let her know he was there for her? When has Danny EVER shown that he might leave her out in the cold, if something like this were to happen?

Well....i guess i can honestly say i wasn't disapointed by her performance. It was just as awful and lame as I expected it would be.

 

You called it cSiNyFrEaK30!

and you know, your points bring something else to mind that I was thinking of earlier, that description of Lindsay as a "good thing" is just another example of how they never seem to SHOW us how great Lindsay is, they just continue to tell us she's amazing and expect me to believe it. Show me some proof! Even the guy who's fathering her kid can't think up any poignant compliments or reasons as to WHY shes a good thing short of her being "different"! That's just a paraphrasing on the "breath of fresh air" garbage we've been choking on since season 2. Please, the air has gone stale, my gag reflex can't take it!

 

We'll never see the proof because even TPTB know she's not a "good thing". I guess they think we're easy to sway if they say it enough. Sorry, I'm just not that gullible. Telling me she's great doesn't mean squat to me if they can't prove it.

:guffaw: I feel like I'm being suffocated.

That's one thing I knew I could count on with this episode - that her performance would be lame as usual. That's really the only continuity there's been on that show.

 

I've never really taken to ragging on Lindsay/Anna before but last night was the kicker.. I guess what just bugs me the most is that she has the same reaction to.. to everything. To having a baby, to losing all her friends in a shooting, to being in love, to finding that potassium did this here and calcium did this there. And it's really, really not very interesting to watch. Because whatever is going on in Lindsay's life, I know I'm not going to be able to glean a single thing of how she feels or what she thinks about it based off what I see on screen.

And to support a point,

I had nO idea that Anna was missing in season 3 until I read this. And like, I waTch this show. alot. Follow every episode. I either really didn't notice or it was so nonessential I forgot it.

/rag

 

Yeah, that was just one of many offensive things about the situation. After everything that's happened, she is still supposedly immaculate and faultless while Danny is the guilty lapdog who's done a big booboo and needs to grovel at her godly feet and make it up to her. Can anyone say, pathetic, two-dimensional Canon Sue who's ruining the show?

Heh, if I remember right, at least one of the episodes where she was absent had improved ratings. Yeah, the ratings did better when she was gone. And just as telling, the ratings never dropped while she was away either.

It's very apparent at this point that the only reason Lindsay has any connection with Danny is because TPTB deliberately used Danny/Carmine as a means to an end to manipulate gullible fangirls into liking Lindsay. Think about it; if Lindsay wasn't in a relationship with Danny and became her own person with no connection to him, would the fangirls even give a damn about her, especially when Belknap's acting is so subpar and even she herself admitted she's 'unglamarous and plain'? I highly doubt it. Lindsay's only worth is that she's plain, hollow, with the typical Mary Sue characteristics so fangirls don't even have to bother using any brainpower to pretend she's them and vice versa.

Very cunning, TPTB, pandering to the lowest common denominator and manipulating their shallow wants for your ratings, but I'm sure you're not so dumb that you don't realize its negative reflection that has become second skin on you now.

Having said all that, I know there are some who genuinely like Lindsay as her own character, and I also know these fans really hate what happened in episode 5x09. The reason being, after what's happened, there is no way in hell Lindsay can be viewed as anything other than 1) a blank proxy for fangirls to self-insert for the sake of some fantasy lovelife with their TV boyfriend, 2) a piece of stage prop in the shadow of Danny's character or 3) both in one. I don't blame these Lindsay fans for being angry about this at all. I can't imagine any genuine Lindsay fan being happy with what's happened. And like what you guys have mentioned, the fact TPTB made the pregnancy story all about Danny already speaks volumes.

Knowing how cowardly TPTB is by now, I'll bet that'll merely be brushed under the rug like so many other careless f*ck-ups. Unless the ratings crash and burn. Oh, with TPTB, it's always about the ratings. Should the ratings tank, I won't be surprised to see TPTB resorting to drastic measures to get them back. Wouldn't put it past TPTB to use a miscarriage plot either as a drastic measure. Even TPTB themselves are making this all about Danny, so the real big picture is, whatever boosts him on screen is what TPTB will be running with. If it comes to the point a miscarriage storyline will get viewers back and put their cash cow in the spotlight as usual, TPTB will likely do it. It's aaaaall about ratings.

Exactly. Let's just say two very horrid lines by Lindsay seriously made me want to show her a certain finger on my hands. Try and guess which one it is.

Agreed. TPTB is already resorting to desperate measures just to convince people about her character, much less about her relationship with Danny. Notice they had to use Danny to do their dirty work, and that even he couldn't say anything worthwhile about Lindsay other than 'different'? :guffaw: :guffaw: :guffaw: F*cking hilarious! I think only people in serious denial would think there's anything resembling love going around there! :guffaw: And ya know, it also reminds me of how the rest of the cast can only say 'she's nice' in regards to Belknap. Ya really gotta wonder about that.

:lol: That is what we call ... the Scrunch Face. Dun-dun-dun-duuuuuuuuun.

But seriously, her utter lack of emoting is exactly the reason why Lindsay's been lobbed onto Danny like a giant leech. Danny's actor is a good one, more than capable of emoting and displaying believable expressions and nuances. He's also worked very hard to develop Danny into a three-dimensional character as best he can with what he's given. The sad thing is, after episode 5x09, Danny will be Lindsay's prop (as in, him propping up her performances so we'll be distracted by how awful they are) for probably the rest of the show. Think it's safe to say pathetic lapdog Danny is here to stay and RIP to the real Danny Messer whom Carmine had worked so hard to build.

Now, more than ever and thanks to TPTB utterly f*cking things up and destroying whatever opportunities Lindsay had left of becoming an independent, better character ... she's gotta go. There's no chance in hell of her being a salvageable character, not anymore.

 

Overdue in popping in here. In light of da Box it was inevitable though...

True, so sooo very true. If any one of them left, there would be a huge impact on each of the other characters. I believe the relationships I see onscreen between them. With Lindsay, I'm now in a constant default Translation state to interpret what she's saying and why she's there. The portrayal's so uneven that I have to Think In Pretend, pretend that she's a character in those labs, and not just a poor actor. Fer chrissakes. Talk about suspension of disbelief.

I like little moments between the rest, non-gratuitous, but add flavour and depth, without taking up much screentime. Others here are far better at detailing specific exapmles, but if I recall, things like Adam's little comment to Stella "I'm glad you're okay." Don rushing down to check on Sheldon and Danny after the scuba accident. Sid trying to coax Mac over for Thanksgiving. Flack and Angell going for coffee to commiserate after bringing Rikki in. Flack and Danny playing pool commiserating when Mac was being investigated. Stella dragging Mac out for an Irish coffee. Here's another comparison. In the 100th, Flack says, "anyone know where our Mac Taylor is?" I read that not only as a general question but as a possessive. I can't imagine anyone wondering where "our" Lindsay Monroe is. As a matter of fact, when she was gone for her trial, did anyone other than Danny ask where she was?

Yeah, until then it was purely interpretive speculation. What really got to me was TPTB using Carmine/Danny as an apologist voicebox to try and speak on Lindsay's behalf, defend her point of view in a way, and recontextualize Danny's past behaviour after the fact. That was nauseating. If things were so bad, why would either one want to get back together again anyways? Oh that's right. They didn't. TPTB did. In order to accomodate the decision to include Anna's pregnancy into production. Way. To. Go. :vulcan:

Agree here too. Again, I was left :brickwall: by the whole thing. And worse, she's really really dragging not only Danny down, but Carmine. I'm sorry, but I honestly didn't think he was that great in 5.09. It's like TPTB sat him down and said here's the explanation we wrote, and you're gonna shovel it. It's gonna try and make Lindsay look good, cos you'll do it better, Danny's gonna say he made mistakes, screwed up, somehow did wrong, and now he's now at a loss to know what to do in light of Lindsay's pregnancy. And he's gonna spill his guts to complete strangers. But don't worry. We'll give ya a whole sequence riding your Harley to make it easier to swallow. He's been so mis-used by this whole scenario. The very fact that this is his story is depressing as hell. How can any other story they give him really ultimately take greater precedence than pending fatherhood?

So many good points in there. There's always somehow been this implication that Messer's a playah. But when have we ever really seen him be anything other than empathetic, caring, if anything, oversensitive? She's implying he's irresponsible maybe? Impetuous? Impetuous enough to fly across to Monana on her behalf? Irresponsible enough to take Reuben's death so deeply to heart and feel to blame? (And between the two of them, how about being so incredibly responsible as to not use protection?) Danny IMO often seems to take too much on himself rather than shirk things, even if he defies others to go about it in his own way. He's never been my favourite character, but I hate seeing him (ab)used like this.

And as for Danny talking about Lindsay, or rather, trying to find things to say, we learned more in one sentence about Lindsay's past from him than we've learned from Lindsay in three or four seasons. Granted, only about birthday presents. But still. There really isn't much to her if being from Montana's her baseline, and there's been no growth since to flesh her out. Some people will say her Dark Secret trial sequence fleshed her out. It didn't. She told everyone to leave her alone to handle her business, and then faltered while on the stand to the point she couldn't proceed until she saw Danny there. She wasn't strong enough to handle her business on her own. That's what was depicted. That's not growth.

:lol: :lol: Exactamundo. Mighty Montana Da Good has been mighty lacking in evolution. A pregnancy, which by default has the greatest impact on the mother, is (so far at least, I grant) not being used to develop her, but being told from the father's persepctive? I thought that soundbite from Veasey about it being seen thru Danny's eyes, and being the beginning of the tough kid's change, yada, was bad enough. But again, they took it a step further to use Danny's character to try and rationalize the whole DL thing, using one of the most popular characters on the show to pander this relationship as a "good thing." I found that incredibly transparent and distasteful. Incredibly. :censored::wtf::angryrazz:

What's so great about her? Nuthin that registers. Potential from S2 didn't last. It would be a step up in itself if she became a more rounded character at this point, admitting flaws and faults. But no, it's always Danny. The depth of Lindsay after four seasons is about as complex as a freakin' popsicle stick. :lol:

:lol: I know exactly what you mean. I'd been so patiently tolerant and accepting fo DL until the inclusion of the pregnancy. When she was gone in S3 it was like I'd relaxed without knowing why, hadn't missed her at all. Actually took me a moment to realize she hadn't been around for awhile. Sure knew when she came back though. Few levels or layers or subtle nuances to her performances. Scene chewing doesn't count. Babblefish is my default now. I watch her scenes translating what she's doing and saying to try and intellectually compile what teh writers may have meant. Note, not understanding what Lindsay said, but what the writers meant for her to convey. Absolutely no connection with her performances, but also not with her character. She had next to no screen time in early eps this season, and I was delighted. Didn't feel the show hurt for her non-presence at all.

Yep. I would buy that. Sadly. I could see them doing such a thing. It's just too bad that DL is such a critical tipping point for the whole f*cking show. I mean come on. Crime Scene Investigation. New York City. You'd think that premise would be enough. It certainly got the show off the ground. Add a stellar core cast. You got a strong show.

Life goes on, people come and go. Some shows transition the coming and goings of their roster of characters better than others. Criminal Minds is one that did well. NCIS did pretty well. You want an example of one of the most successful shows of all time that handled that well over a decade? And still had good writing? Packed more engaging material into half the screentime? How about M*A*S*H*? My roommate got me into watching reruns of that, and it's astonishing how well the show just carried on because the premise, writing, and characters were so strong.

Now CSINY lost Vanessa Ferlito. Lost a great character in Aiden Burn. Perhaps in trying to avoid inevitable comparisons, TPTB brought in someone as disparate from Aiden as possible to succeed her. Montana. And the brief window in which Lindsay could really have found her footing as a character independently of anyone else fell to pieces because of some combination of writing, poor acting, and the absolutely titanic decision to put two main canon characters together to create the fiasco of DL. Danny said, "Things haven't really been the same." Damn straight they haven't.

Agree. Wholeheartedly. Said in my review for the ep the only possible redeeming reason for Danny to be riding his emocycle thru city streets was to search for any sign of his balls. Or glasses. Also said that I really wanted to somehow reach thru the screen to grab Danny by the collar and shake him from this horrible shadow of his former self haze TPTB have had him in since his induction into DL. :lol:

Lindsay never evolved into a well rounded character. Anna's performances are consistently subpar. A pregnancy storyline that you would think would be introduced thru her eyes was instead written to be essentially narrated by Danny as a way to explain the rationalization created for the pregnancy, and to use his deep, well-rounded, flawed, imperfect, wholly interesting and complex character to be an apologist for Lindsay, and for the new direction given DL.

I still have hopes they could salvage the show by perhaps having DL split up conclusively, no more of this wishy washy on/off, are they/aren't they, pull the petals off love me/not crap, and get on with the rest of the show. Maybe they still will. But god, 5.09 sure did not at all assuage me, or instill any great hope or confidence that this CSI Bairn can ever be a good thing. I don't see it that way. If anything, DL as a whole has IMO been incredibly damaging. Buzz will only get you so far.


Why Must Lindsay Go?
> Lindsay was a newcomer, I was open minded. She went from newcomer to flirtation. I was indifferent. I began to think she didn't contribute much but was willing to trade off watching her to get to the rest of the show. The show went from no real weak link to an easily pinpointed one. It happens. Her Dark Secret storyline started chewing scenery, and I started to get annoyed that I had to sit thru her to watch the rest of the show. Then the only thing that came to really define her as a character, one not interchangeable from any other new arrival, was her relationship with Danny. Lindsay went from having no independent impact on the show to romantic interest, where DL definitely started to impact the show's quality in a detrimental fashion. Was she then integral to the show? No. DL were finally canon consummated in a rather gratuitous drunken collection of 'winnings' on a pool table in the S3 season finale, mostly as a way to have Adam on his lonesome in the warehouse to be abducted and tortured.

Lindsay is not a positive influence on the show. Most of the time, she does what any lab tech could be used to do in the processing side of things (and in that realm, she's far far easily outshone by Adam, and in the past the likes of Chad, and even Kendall, whom I didn't really like) and what any detective on the street side of things could be used to do (and in that realm is far and away easily outshone by Flack, Angell, and going back, in the likes of Maka). Lindsay is a negative, requiring the others to prop her up, Danny mainly, Flack, Mac, and Stella come next to mind with specific scenes, and any others who've been saddled with her in a given scene. The only way she's really impacted the show is because of that, and most grievously thru DL.

DL seemed to have run out of steam in S4 (if there ever really had been any) and in S5, new, separate things were planned for each. The first episodes of S5 seemed to reflect this new positive direction and injection of life. And Lindsay, with minimal screen time, was not a factor in that either. Not a contributor, not indispensable. Then this sudden shift and reversion to DL, nixing all positive steps taken so far this season. 5.09 was weak. Carmine wasn't great. Using the father to shovel this out didn't make it easier to swallow. The surrounding case was horrible. It's like writing for Lindsay just sucked the whole episode down into the mire. The silhouetted hand moment to end it was fermenting as I watched. The rest of the cast made this one watchable.

TPTB, if you're gonna keep Montana on the show, split up DL, give each a new branch, even with a kid between them, a new direction to go, like you'd initially planned, a life outside each other. DL is having far more of an impact on the show, a f*cking crime show, than it ever should have been permitted to, and this latest decision to bring the pregnancy into the show could sink it. At least for this viewer. I'm in your ratings. In the age group you seem to give a sh*t about. And I'm telling you this hitherto loyal viewer will only take so much.

The effort to tune in to make the trade off of sitting thru Lindsay to watch the rest of the cast solving homicides on a freakin crime show in the vaunted CSI franchise may not be one that's worth making anymore.

Sorry for the excessive length of all this. My dam of patience cracked and let loose. And so many good points brought up by everyone to catch up on and talk about.

 

That was a really long post Elwood21, and it was one I completely have to agree with. I won't get into detail but yeah, you're right, about, well, everything.

I was patient at the beginning, too. I loved Aiden but Lindsey seemed to be a nice girl. But TPTB's decision to make her into a love interest was their first mistake. CSI is a crime show and therefore should have its focus on crimes. It almost seems like TPTB thought Lindsey would fit in better and would be liked better if she was with Danny. But it only weakened her character.

I haven't seen S4 or 5 yet, and I'm really thinking hard, whether I should buy S4 on DVD. And Lindsey's the main reason for that. Especially since I know now what will happen in S5.

If I understood correctly, Danny and Lindsey started to drift apart at the beginning of S5? A very good idea in my opinion especially since I can't see any chemistry between them, let alone (sexual) tension. So why go back to the whole DL relationship? Just because the actress is pregnant. That's such a poor excuse. The writers should have more imagination than that!

Now Lindsey will never be an independent character. The best thing for her would be a break-up. A clean start. Be a single mum, show everything from her perspective. Make her strong and independent. Let her grow with the experience. Just separate her from Danny and let her be her own character! For once!

 

Seriously, can you imagine Stella missing from a few episodes? Or Hawkes? Or Adam? Adam only became a regular character this season, but I'm 100% certain that if he disappeared for a few episodes now, viewers will be wondering what happened to him and where he went. Heck, before he was a regular, people were already asking why he's not around when he didn't show up for an episode or two. No surprise TPTB has made him, a lab tech, one of the main characters today. AJ Buckley worked hard and well with the material he was given, and it really shows. Good, hard work and sincere love for it always shows.

:lol: Seconded. The irony is, I think Belknap's inability to act or portray a believable, three-dimensional character is pretty much the main reason Lindsay's 'liked' by fangirls who use her as a self-insert Canon Sue. If Belknap was capable of developing Lindsay as a believable, well-rounded character who didn't need propping up, there would be no 'space' for self-insertion and projection of themselves onto Lindsay by fangirls. That's why you don't see this happening (to the same extent, anyway) with Stella or Angell or even Aiden; their actresses do a good job of making their characters independent, with a unique voice and personality.

And more importantly, if Belknap was capable of acting and making Lindsay a decent character ... Lindsay would never have needed propping from Danny in the first place, and the show wouldn't have f*cked over itself so many times just to accommodate a subpar actress. :brickwall:

:lol: Yes! This is one of the things amusing me so much about this hack job of a story plot! Thanks to what happened, we now have official, canonical proof of how useless and fake Lindsay is. Honestly, I can't imagine anyone with self-respect and good self-esteem ever relating to a pathetic character like Lindsay, much less think she's all that or worse, want to be her. :wtf: :guffaw:

Agreed. It was truly low and underhanded of TPTB to use Danny/Carmine that way. Worse of TPTB to destroy what was one of the best Danny storylines and reduce it to nothing more than a 'mistake', just to cover up their utter laziness and shoddiness. Even worse is that we know they had fully intended to go a different route and actually salvage things and possibly save both Danny's and Lindsay's characters. But, no ... they had to take the chickensh*t route at the very last minute because they seem to be afraid of losing even the slightest amount of viewers and wanted as much shallow asskissing as they could get. :brickwall:

TPTB, haven't you heard of the fable of the father and son and their donkey? They tried pleasing anyone that came their way by blindly following whatever they were told to do, thinking it was the best thing to do and guess what? They ended up becoming the laughing stock of everyone, and got nothing in the end.

Totally agree with this. I have noticed a shift of perspective towards Danny in fandom ever since he was turned into Lindsay's prop. The only people who like Danny being her prop are, naturally, fans of their relationship who fancy having the hot stud of the show catering to the plain, unglamorous country girl's every whim, no matter how ridiculous or hypocritical they are.

This is TPTB's manipulation at its lowest; feeding upon the insecurities and shallow fantasies of fangirls who see themselves as equally plain/dull/unglamarous as Lindsay and want to wallow in a fantasy where the hot guy falls for the plain, boring girl and sticks around no matter how sh*tty she treats him. The chances of this ever happening in real life are next to zero, hence the reason why this can only be so on a fictional TV show with bad writing and bad acting from the very Canon Sue whom the fangirls use as a self-insert.

And yes, this is indeed dragging Carmine down, by undermining all the hard work he's put into making Danny a great TV character ... well, a great TV character in the past anyway. It's going to take a whole lot of great writing to bring Danny back to his former glory now.

Who knows, maybe that's precisely what TPTB did. The sad part is I can see TPTB doing that and not blink an eye about it. Oh, how low you've sunk, TPTB.

Did anyone else find Danny spilling his guts out to complete strangers out of character?

Seconded. So. Damn. Much. If TPTB had hoped that would make people like what's going on, they've gotta be kidding me. All it did was prove me that even they know how much this hack plot sucks and that they went with it anyway because they're just too damn lazy to do a good, substantial story and only want shallow praises and rake in money. Awful!

And TPTB going with this storyline because it's 'cool'? Somebody ought to tell them that 1324298 other TV shows have already done it ages ago, and done it much better too.

Wow, there is so much more to reply to that I'll have to do it at a later time. :lol: I knew this thread was going to run like wildfire after episode 5x09! :lol: