GLBT - Four letters not found in CSI:NY

I don't think anybody in here has intentionally trashed anybody else, and I don't think that's been the goal for any of us. While I respect that people consider homosexuality wrong, I also see how it would be painful to be told, over and over again, that it is 'unhealthy and immoral' to love who you love. It's a two way street, and it's not a simple issue. Yes, some people think it's wrong, but other people don't think it's wrong. As dutch_treat said, what we see on television with regard to this issue is quite often one-sided.

That may be true, but I think this is another chance to point out Adam as, I believe, the logical choice if an existing character were to be (in his case) bisexual. Yes, he works for the NYPD, but he's not a cop, he's a scientist. If the show is a fantasy world where crimes can be solved in a day or two, DNA results are almost instantaneous, and even the most dubious of science can solve a case, surely it's the same fantasy world where there is some amount of distance between the cops and the scientists who work with them. While someone like Danny straddles the fence between being a cop like Flack and a scientist like Adam the lab tech, Adam himself isn't a cop.

But I digress...

Exactly, which is why I think having more non-heterosexual characters in regular/recurring/guest roles would be a good thing. A gay expert they consult from time to time on something, a transgender family member, etc. The same holds true for other groups, not just the GLBT community.

 

I agree, Adam would be a good choice for a bisexual character. They wouldn't need to have a huge Coming Out scene, maybe just a throwaway line ("...looks a bit like my ex-boyfriend" for example) with the other characters not responding in any way because they already knew and couldn't care less.

Or the other suggestion, to have Flack's sister be a lesbian. Possibly even Sid's daughter, again as a throwaway line indicating he's OK with it (after all, Sid isn't weirded out by anything).

 

I'm sorry. I didn't think I was trashing anyone's religious beliefs. That's what I hate about prejudice, that people do get trashed for whatever beliefs they have. I just wish we could have a gay character on TV and there not be fighting on both sides of the issue that causes hurt feelings and makes everything worse.

 

Going back to this because I re-watched some of season 3 at the weekend.

In “The Lying Game”, obviously the Stella, Hawkes, Flack case was dealing with Transgender and Homophobic issues.

At the time of its airing I remember a discussion on this board (and if I remember correctly in the D/F ship thread), regarding Flack’s attitude towards Frank the perpetrator of the crime, in fact I think Kristine mentioned it in her review.

It was talked about, because of Flack’s parting shot to Frank as he arrests him for the murder of Quentin Conrad. When Frank states that he was doing the world a favour by killing Quentin Conrad, Flack tells him that by arresting him he is doing the world an even bigger favour, by arresting Frank.

But it was the interrogation that struck me. Just like Stella in “Murder Sing’s the Blues” used the fact that she was a woman to connect with and interrogate Jordan (?), it was interesting to see Flack use his body and his sex to interrogate Frank.
At first he pretends empathy with Frank, regarding the fact that Frank didn’t know that the victim was transgender, goes on to imply that Frank may be gay, I think it’s Stella that mentions Gay Pride, but it’s Flack that pushes Frank but not through intimidation. Usually we see Flack pretty much explode or snark his way through interrogations, using intimidation. Apart from when he is just interviewing. Here though he pretends to be intimate with Frank, leaning in close, whispering in his ear, using pet names. Now none of this implies that Flack is gay or bi-sexual. And at the time I think along with the majority of the viewers I just saw it as an interrogation technique, but in all honesty Flack could have done a lot of that from across the table. Yes maybe it wouldn’t have made Frank quite so uncomfortable as it did but I think it probably would have had the same effect.

Something else I picked up on was that Stella nods to Flack, before getting in close to Frank. It’s relatively imperceptible but its there, I guess as a cue. Now maybe it’s me but I thought it was very telling that they did that.

I am in no way implying that the following characters are homophobic but I couldn’t have seen Mac, Danny or Hawkes using there body like that towards a criminal.

Mac uses intimidation and on occasion physical threats, as well as his intelligence. Hawkes tends to stick with the facts, and on the whole remains calm tending to lean towards out-witting someone. Danny will let those one liners and sympathy and passionate views come to the fore, thinking back to Danny and Stella interviewing the paedophile in Season 1 and Danny’s almost venomous comment about “What’s the matter, I to old for you?”

My point to all of this is, that Flack is clearly comfortable in putting himself forward in that way, he could see Frank’s weak spots, and knew what button’s to push – that’s what being a could cop and interrogator are all about - but it seemed that Flack was happy to play on that, use himself to get at Frank.

This says to me that Flack is extremely comfortable with who he is, whether that be hetro/Gay/Bi–sexual and from second viewing of “The Lying Game” for me it wouldn’t take a huge leap of imagination to believe that Flack plays both sides of the field (as it were).

Leading to my next point, this is a personal thing and you guys may not feel this way, but watching Flack in that episode really challenged my view of him, I love Flack, he is by far my favourite character, he is well rounded, a good friend (perhaps more) to Danny and also to Stella and Mac. He is relatively easy going and is nearly always humorous. But it was that episode that challenged my view of him as a cop, we know he is good at what he does and that he believes in what he does, but he also doesn’t fit the stereotype of a police detective in the way they have been portrayed in the past.

Flack is the one, who took in what Hawkes and Stella were referring and actually looked up Candis Caynes skirt and declare that the victim is in fact Transgender, instead of the Doctor and Female CSI in the room. All the way through he is quite sure this is a hate crime (until the evidence of the congressman and the sister’s rape comes to light). He uses his sex to interrogate Frank.

I guess I have my own stereotypes of the police force and cops and Flack made me think.

To me I think Flack would be a good character to “out” as it were, for me personally I think he would challenge people’s views of bi-sexuality, he can’t really be gay for the reason we have seen Flack appreciating the female form, (we’ve also seen him appreciate Danny’s but that really is a WHOLE other thread) and how men (in particular) are portrayed usually.

I understand do that there are people who believe that homosexuality is morally wrong, and I respect that it is their opinion and belief. I think someone mentioned this above, I’m not religious, in fact I’m atheist but I do think religion gets a bad rep on T.V, no one is just religious, they have to be fanatical and deranged and taking their believes too far.

I think all parts of society should be respected, but also portrayed and portrayed fairly. Yes these crimes do happen and it shouldn’t be covered up that they do but it is wrong just to show them as killers of victims of the society we all live in.

 

I think it`s very sad that we don`t see a gay/lesbian etc person in csi ny as in a regular or recuring character.
While I think it has something to do with culture,part of me also wonders that there is none because writers find it tough to write and to have a good actor/actress to pull the role off.

Maybe some dutchies remember the serie/movie Allstars.
For non dutchies,it was a comedy/drama serie/movie about a tight knitted friends soccer club.
There was a gay character who played the manager.
The actor who played that character is a straight guy but if you didn`t know better you would think he was gay and the writing was just amazing.
while there were some stereotypical things in it,most of it was just normal everyday life.

I guess what i`m trying to say is that if in a country gay,lesbian etc people are more accepted it might be easier as a writer to write it in a serie or movie.

No offense to anyone

 

^ I remember 'All stars' very well, and the gay character (Bram ?) is a perfect example of how this could be done...a gay guy managing a soccer club was a great idea. I believe he even got married at the end of the series (?).

But like you said:

That is right, the are so many gay people on Dutch television in every show, series, etc., but it is easier because writers/producers don't have to think about what kind of concequences their decision to do so would have, simply because there are no concequences.

 

I stand corrected. I haven't watched those for a while, so they didn't spring to mind.

I remember the cuddle party, I agree that he wasn't necessarily uncomfortble, his "I don't cuddle" and face when he walked in looked less than ofey with the idea. I guess he was like any big city type, "Nothing shocks me" but this is a little out there.

True, I agree with you there. Plus he used the oppotunity to flash his badge, but now you mention it he was overtly provocative - maybe that's just me?

I think you are probably right.

Man, I didn't realise how much I typed about the lying game. I must have had too much Caffine this morning! :lol:

 

I think it all boils down to a catch 22 situation. Unfortunately, America is governed by a very fundamentalist society (as well as by money). You can see it everwhere. There are prejudices if anyone doesn't meet what this society deems normal.

Network TV has to balance that line very carefully (which is very unfortunate). A lot of it boils back down to money. Network TV relies on money from advertisers. If they take a huge risk (as when they had the first male/male kiss on Will & Grace) then they risk losing advertisers which could put the network in jeopardy of not being able to continue, even if the viewers liked the change.

I come from one the "Bible Belt" states (for those not from the US, they are the southern states that take religion very seriously) and I am still amazed about how open minded I managed to turn out! While I think that there should be more diversity on TV, the reality is that until society as a whole changes, then it's going to be very risky for the networks to pursue that.

So it's going to come down to society demanding a change. Think about thirty or forty years ago, when there were very few minorities portrayed on TV. Even now, writers on the networks don't take major risks a lot of the time and the shows that do...often are cancelled.

It's going to take time, as someone mentioned. Diversity is slowly making it's way into TV with the portrayal of disabled, deaf, GLBT characters, but most of those strides have come from cable TV, not network. Networks tend to portray everyone as a stereotype and have for a long time. I still remember when the show Dallas was big and it was full of stereotypes. I still have people ask me if I have an oil well when they find out I'm from Texas...or they are just amazed that I don't have and "accent". I have an accent, but I live in a metropolitian city where there is an amazing amount of diversity, so yeah, I don't sound like someone from the country! (okay. I digress now.)

I think as the years move on, we will see more diversity in TV, but it's going to take an open minded society that demands the change to make it a reality! We have to make the advertisers realize that by bringing diversity to TV, it's not going to effect their bottom line (come on, how many of us really pay attention to commericials anyway?).

My only hope is that this society won't take as long to change as it has in the past!

 

He did .
I remember his partner called himself a "Soccer wife" or something:lol:


I think in the csi ny universe,it`s easier to write GLBT as a victim or criminal then it is to write as a recular/recurring ci/cop etc
The vitim/criminal is a one time character most of the time while the other is on almost every episode

 

I haven't seen this thread in a while, but I found an article recently on Gay and Lesbian characters in tv shows that I thought was interesting--

http://www.thev247.com/articles/new_3320___article.html/study_gay.html

Its kind of sad that NONE of the 126 main characters on CBS tv shows (according to the article) are gay/lesbian/bisexual...I would think at least one show would have one, but I guess not =/

However, it seems like other networks are adding more diverse characters (in terms of sexual orientation) to their shows, so who knows--maybe CBS will follow. I really hope they do eventually somehow bring a character on the show (or any of the CSI shows, really) who is not straight. The world isn't full of straight people, and with such a diverse city like New York, I can't believe that the team has never encountered a GLBT person at their workplace or as a suspect/victim, etc.

 

Well, there have been a few, but we're coming up on 100 episodes this season, most of which have had 2 cases in them, and we can probably count the non-heterosexual characters on one hand.

I read that article - I wasn't surprised, but still, 126 regular characters and none of them are gay or bi? :wtf:

 

CBS is, unfortunately, known for being conservative. That they have 126 regular characters and none aren't heterosexual doesn't surprise me one bit. It upsets me, but it doesn't surprise me. Network TV, CBS in particular, is ridiculously behind the times in showing any diversity, other than ethnic and they're even pretty lame in that department, whatsoever.