CSI: NY Season 4 Spoilers! Discussion in the Big Apple

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Elsie, Mar 16, 2008.

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  1. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

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    Well, the glass can be half empty or half full. ;) Personally, I'm excited to see the storyline, and to meet a Flack family member.

    Exactly. Just because we didn't see Flack's family in CotP doesn't mean they weren't around. That episode wasn't really about Flack, it was about Mac--and I guess you can take issue with that, but Gary Sinise is the star of the show.

    It sounds like this was a good opportunity to bring in a Flack relative, and well, I'm glad the writers took the opportunity.
     
  2. Dims

    Dims Hit and Run

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    I love how you guys think.

    Lindsay will look stupid taking Danny back. (Even though we have seen that is her who is in love with him and has admitted it..so it must be difficult letting him go)

    But Danny trying sth again with Linds after his crazy love night with Rikki (whom he really liked :rolleyes::lol: ) and despite the fact he has never showed he is in love with Lindsay or even feels as she does (and yet he will go out with her hence giving her hopes) is just awesome and just clever and wow so cool...

    and not like hypocritical or simply unstable behaviour

    right?:rolleyes:

    I mean i have seen that this board is full of double standards when it comes to Danny and Lindsay but you guys have reached like a total new level!!!!! ;):guffaw:
     
  3. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

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    It was Lindsay herself who said it was "stupid" to get involved with a co-worker. So yeah, she looks pretty dumb if she takes him back after saying that.

    Wrong. Danny's equally if not more stupid if he tries to make something out of this relationship with Lindsay, because it doesn't seem that he is in love with her. If he shared Lindsay's feelings, he wouldn't have slept with Rikki. So if he tries to build a relationship with Lindsay now, it's going to look like he's doing it because Lindsay's in love with him, not because he really wants to be with her. Like you said, that's pretty unstable. It's certainly not healthy.

    I think what happened with Rikki spelled the end of the Danny/Lindsay relationship, or a potential for one--or it least it should have. I can't see a way for them to forge ahead now without both characters looking foolish.

    And I've seen plenty condemning Danny for cheating when there's no canon evidence that their was a relationship for him to be unfaithful to. We all have our biases. ;)
     
  4. Orison

    Orison CSI Level Two

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    I know, I totally feel the same way. Problem is, how do we explain Ausiello's comments about D/L fans not being disappointed if the two characters don't get back together?
     
  5. Dims

    Dims Hit and Run

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    thank you. as i will be the first to say that it will be extremely stupid of Lindsay to just take him back (immediately) after what he has done, i would like also to see from Dannys fans the same courtesy and admittance that what he is about to do is extremely unstable and hypocritical IMHO.I havnt seen anyone (but you) aknowledge how also stupid is of Danny what seems is going to happen.

    and even though i want Rikki the hell out of the show (visually at least) at this point it'd make more sense if he continued sth with her and leave Linds alone. (i would just like not to have to actually see it)

    I mean dont get me wrong ...i totally want them (D/L) together but after it has been proved they are both at the same page and not one in love while the other negotiates his feelings.

    actually it is both Kristin at E!online and Aussiello at TVGuide who said DL fans wont be dissapointed and will be happy.....Just sayin
     
  6. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    What Top said. Telling your boss that you should've never gotten involved with someone at work and then turning right around and agreeing to continue/start again looks desperate and pathetic, even if she's "in love" with Danny. You can be in love with someone and realize it's not going to work out for whatever reason and move on with your life and come out of it a stronger person. It appears Lindsay won't even attempt to do that. It doesn't say a lot for her character that she can't be allowed to be developed outside Danny.

    Again, what Top said. Who said that what happened between Danny and Rikki was "love?" As I recall it, most people who like the interaction between Danny and Rikki openly admit that Danny and Rikki are both screwed up and what they are doing is not healthy. Hell, even Danny and Rikki have openly admitted they are both screwed up and what they are doing is not healthy. The reason we like them is because they are more realistic than Lindsay. With Danny we understand from where his behavior stems and we like the depth and realism without condoning his behavior all of the time. Lindsay has never given us that understanding. And, no, I don't believe that everything she does until the end of time can be explained by her "deep, dark secret." Without that understanding, depth and realism Lindsay comes off as an uneven character who changes to fit every new script.

    How is it a double standard when we've given countless, well thought out, coherent arguments for why we empathize with Danny and not Lindsay? How is it a double standard when we've criticized the behavior of both Danny and Lindsay? You not agreeing with us doesn't make our views a double standard.

    Personally, I can't fathom why many of the same people who immediately took Lindsay's side and were so quick to label Danny a lying, cheating bastard would want her to continue/start over with him. I'd think they'd want better for a character they proclaim to love and respect so much.

    ETA:
    Other people have acknowledged Danny's behavior. Just because people may not have used the words "stupid" "hypocritical" and "extremely unstable" doesn't mean we've condoned every aspect of his behavior. It is possible to acknowledge behavior is unhealthy, stupid, etc, and still understand the reason(s) behind the behavior(s).
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2008
  7. dutch_treat

    dutch_treat CSI Level Two

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    Well, I don't know about the pathetic and desperate, it may be a dumb move, but people in love can sometimes act a little strange. The only thing I can come up with to at least try and explain what she said to Mac is that she may have been trying to convince herself to give up on him, coming up with excuses like that...and probably (judging by the spoilers) decides that, although stupid, there's no way she giving up on him yet *shrugs* I really don't know...

    Danny and Rikki both admitted that it was not the wisest thing they were doing (thus stupid too), but they went ahead and did it again anyway...desperate and pathetic, perhaps, but just like in Lindsay's case it was also under the influence of quite (albeit different) strong emotions.

    So I still understand Danny's (and Rikki's) behaviour, but to me Lindsay's is just the same.

    - - -

    Txs for the next week's promo and all the new spoiler info.

    It's great that there are already spoilers for next season...at least that means that this season's cliff hanger shouldn't be to hard on us. And I still love the fact that they continue to show and tell us more and more about everyone's personal lifes...we get to meet brothers, sisters, neighbours, etc...it's great..
     
  8. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    And to me Lindsay continuing/starting over with Danny after telling Mac that getting involved with a co-worker was "really stupid" isn't even remotely "just the same" as Danny and Rikki being emotionally devistated by Ruben's death.
     
  9. dutch_treat

    dutch_treat CSI Level Two

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    ^ Well, they all felt devastated by something -which I agree, is totally uncomparable, but emotional non the less- in their personal lives and, like I said, the emotion may have been a totally different one it still was what made all three of them act 'stupid'.
     
  10. Dawni

    Dawni CSI Level One

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    I have to say I kind of still think its a stupid move i mean i like them but i thought it would have been better trying to start off as friends again rebuild that, i think thats acceptable. But saying it to Mac the way she did said that she wasn't going to try again so either Danny sucks up real good... or she was only really saying it outloud hoping it would make more sense.

    If they do get back together i'd like to at least see that its not back to normal. I thought without them together finally the TPTB might decide to work on Lindsays character and define her as someone without Dannys help.

    I just hope Rikki gets a good exit if this is the last we see of her. She was never the bad guy.

    I'm interested on another side to see Gerard back, i'm curious to see how he will be involved because it seems Natalie could be more involved than just being there. If so it could be Gerard sucking up to Mac which we know full well he wouldnt want to do or at least seeing the to of them try to be cival.
     
  11. La_Guera

    La_Guera Lab Technician

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    As someone who's been howling for Flack development for four seasons, I am thrilled to see this and hope it leads to some meaty material for both Eddie and Flack. It's about time we see a glimpse of the person he is when he's just Don and not Det. Flack, Big Damn Hero. I hope that Melanie isn't forgotten after the episode in which she appears, and cast into the plot chasm that swallows undesirable siblings, like poor Louie Messer, who had his brains scrambled for twenty minutes of angst and was never seen again.

    Then again, if she, too, is pitched into the maw of Scrivener Incompeto, Eyeless Beast of Bulwer-Lytton, Eater of Writerly Competence, mayhap she and Louie will get together down there, do a little dance, make a little love. Can't you imagine the righteous indignation of the brothers on that score?

    "What's your brother doing with my sister, Messer?"

    "Maybe your sister there made the first move."

    "She wouldn't do that."

    "You sayin' she's too good for Louie, Flack?"

    ~fistfight~

    Anyway, where was I?

    Oh, yes. I hope Melanie doesn't become Melanie the Amazing Disappearing Sister. That being said, neither do I want her to become a prominent focal point. An appearance now and then, a mention. But please God, don't subject us to X seasons of Flack the Good Brother running interference for his irresponsible, Black Sheep Sister.

    It's too early to draw any conclusions yet, so I'm going to reserve judgment until she appears. It could go either way or in a direction no one anticipates.

    The addition of a sister and the revelation that his parents are alive does raise questions, however. If his siblings(brothers were mentioned in "Time's Up") and parents were alive, and the sister at least lives in the city, why were none mentioned or involved in COTP? Even if there were sibling tension between Don and Melanie, wouldn't it have been set aside temporarily after she learned he'd nearly died? Maybe the tension stems from her absence then, but that's a stretch. The writers have never been that subtle or creative. Melanie aside, wouldn't Mama Flack have come running?

    And if his parents are alive, why can't he go home for corned beef hash? Gavin Moran asked after Flack Senior in S1, which presumes that Flack could still visit them from a geographic standpoint. So is Flack not visiting because he doesn't feel comfortable, or because he isn't permitted to do so because of a familial rift? If there is a rift, was it caused by his decision to join the police force? Did Senior resent it? Did Mama want "better" for him?

    I don't know why I'm asking these questions because I'd bet my grocery money that Flack having siblings wasn't included in the original conception of the character. The writers probably brainstormed the idea over a hookah bong in talks for S4, and I'd wager Melanie was a product of a margarita chug during the strike. The writers have too long a history of inventing backstories only to change them on a whim to fit the plot of the moment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2008
  12. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    I don't think Danny and Rikki acted "stupid." They acted out of extreme emotional distress and didn't make the healthiest choices. That's not even close to being the same thing as "stupid." And I would hardly call Lindsay "devastated." She bitched out Danny for not grieving the way she wanted him to grieve and then said she loves him but has to "let that go." If anything, that was manipulative and an attempt to switch the focus of Danny's guilt from being about Ruben to being about her. Then she told her boss it was "really stupid" for getting involved with a co-worker.

    I really don't understand the need by so many people to try and level the playing field and equate Lindsay's feelings and actions with Danny's. Lindsay might be feeling a bit of romantic heartache, but Danny feels responsible for the death of a child. It doesn't make sense to me to feel as bad for Lindsay as I do for Danny. Lindsay is dealing with feelings with which most 14 year olds have to deal, and if the spoilers prove to be true she's dealing with those feelings in the same manner as most 14 year olds would. Having a 30ish professional behave that way is "stupid" in my book.

    ETA:
    Flack getting blown up was just a plot device to show the contrast between what happened to the soldier Mac couldn't save in Beirut and being able to save Flack in COTP. Does that suck out loud? Yeah. But this show is Gary Sinese's gig so it at least explains the lack of la famille de Flack in the episode.

    I took that line as more nostalgic than literal. To me Flack was saying he'd go back to when he was a kid and enjoyed his mom's Sunday family dinners of corned beef hash. And while he may still be able to visit his mom, the whole family doesn't get together any longer to enjoy mom's dinners for any number of reasons. One reason must be that Melanie is estranged from the family, which could be why Flack mentioned his brother(s) and not her. But I'm also afraid that TPTB have assumed we've all forgotten Flack mentioning the brother(s) and have rewritten la famille de Flack to include a sister instead. That should seem ridiculous, but considering Stella went from spending her life in an orphanage to spending her early years in a foster home for the sake of a script it really wouldn't surprise me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2008
  13. dutch_treat

    dutch_treat CSI Level Two

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    Well, that's another thing we disagree about then. Although I do completely understand why they did it, to me it was the stupidest way for both to handle their grief, it still can very easily make an already very painful and complicated situation even worse once they come to fully realize what they did.

    We don't know the intensity of her heartache; to be in love with someone and dream about a possible future is something of all ages. And to suddenly realize that his feelings were perhaps not equal to hers could've been devastating.

    It's not a battle of which person is suffering the worst emotions and is therefor entitled to act in a certain way...it's just three people each dealing with his/her own feelings.

    That's unfortunately what the writers do...they bring in a family member when they feel like it. When Louie ended up in the hospital, Danny did mention their parents, but they never showed up in the hospital to be there for either of their sons...

    Do we know what age Melanie is supposed to be?
     
  14. JellyBelly

    JellyBelly Lab Technician

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    Lindsay's comment to Mac was purely reactive to the situation and how it made her feel. It probably wasn't the wisest thing to say to your boss if then you turn around and do it again but who's wise when it comes to matters of the heart? I'm reserving judgement until I see how this plays out in full. I suspect most of us are guilty of outing ourselves for being stupid then follow it up by being 'stupid' again. We learn though (at least we should) and going into a relationship for a second time doesn't necessarily have to be as stupid as the first (although it in certain circumstances it can be infinitely more stupid than the first).

    Emotions are always subjective and incomparable, they are dependent on the person, the situation and their histories. I don't think anyone can judge who out of D/L/R is feeling the worse (although I do think that there could be nothing worse than losing your child). It's such a complex, messy situation and I suspect all of their insecurities and emotions have played a significant part in getting them there.

    Ooh, I'm loving the Flack spoilers for S5. I just want to see Hawkes getting some lovin' soon then I'll be happy. :)

    I don't agree with those who call Lindsay immature and selfish but I suspect that neither she nor Danny have dealt with their relationship (whatever it was) particularly maturely. I don't agree with those who think that D/L should be together whatever the situation, I like them together but it doesn't make or break the show for me. And I really don't agree that Rikki is to blame in any of this and hope that her ending (if that's what ep 19 is) is handled sensitively.

    I am concerned with the timeline if their intention is to have D/L back together by the finale. I get that this 'bump' was supposed to come sooner but seems to have been railroaded by the writers strike and the shortened season, but they shouldn't risk making it stupid just to have it neatly packaged.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2008
  15. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    No. We don't know the intensity of Lindsay's heartache, and I think that speaks volumes about Anna Belknap's limited acting ability. I more than realize being in love is something for people of all ages, that it isn't wasn't my point. A 30ish professional should be better equipped to handle it than a 14 year old. And yes, "should" doesn't equal "can" or "will;" but if Lindsay readily agrees to continue/start again IMO she'll be handling the situation more like a 14 year old, and that won't help me develop any sympathy for a character I already see as immature and uneven.

    It sometimes feels like a "battle" to me, especially when explaining why I feel the way I do is reduced to engaging in a "battle" and saying I understand from where a character's behavior stems even if I don't condone the behavior is reduced to nothing more than giving "entitlement" to a character's behavior. It also feels like a "battle" when it's constantly pointed out how people empathizing/sympathizing more with Danny based on interpreting canon is unfair/hypocritical/a double standard/mean/etc. but condemning Danny (and Rikki) and empathizing/sympathizing with Lindsay based on non-canon assumption is OK.
     
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