I guess Saris felt that the cops would track her down and bring her back to testify or when she ran out of money she would come back....why does anyone kill someone?
all in was great. and i think the begginging just topped or came close to my all time list of super H moments lol. one problem i had with it though was that H went to brazil because he murdered riaz but leaving he ends up murdering like 7 more people. it just doesnt work for me. but other than that the ep was awesome. also one of the guys in the beginning got away in the car so that could possibly lead to future complications or something with H. we'll see and lastly i don't know about anyone else but in future episodes i want to see more of the lebrock storyline.
Maybe I will get in trouble with you guys but I will go with H in this one. I like the Brazil scene. You have to remember that all this guys were Mala Noche Gang, definitely not good people, all of them were killers and drug dealers, without mentioning other things that comes with this the job. They didn't know super H's sharp shooter powers so they were relax, "we are four, he is one, ha ha ha", and remember, he distract them first with his "como?" and took advantage of that. Como on guys, you have seen in TV racing cars or common cars in the news, in accidents, and you see the car and the first thing you say "no one could survive this", and nothing happen to the driver. Is the same thing here. Maybe my example is not to good, but we are talking about a Lt. that we know is good a shooting, give this dude a credit. About the last guy, Horatio is in a "killer mode", adrenalin flowing through his veins, he is up to his head about this gang, they will not stop before nothing, so one more ,one less, what the heck. Ok, one little bullet gashing his arm or his leg will be enough with me. I support my MAN and always be. This is my humble opinion.
It's a nice explanation, RedHot, but, in all honesty, I don't think Horatio's execution of the guy with the sword can be justified in such a way. It's justifying murder and just because your enemies are lowlife who have no regard for life, it does not justify you turning into them and killing someone as they would. The thing is, the Mala Noche are insiduous gangsters, but Horatio, no matter where he is and/or why he is there, is an officer of the law first. He has, or should have, the training of restraint backing him up. He also has a code of honour to uphold that goes with the badge that he wears. This action that he took concerning the guy with the sword, it was nothing short of murderous. There was nothing 'civilised' about what he did. It was cold and calculated, and no smart line will make it any different for me. There have been many times when I have stuck up for the Horatio character, (he was my ultimate favourite of the show), but this, and the execution of that guy with the gun that could shoot 200(?) rounds a second (?), has turned me against the character. Sorry, but in my opinion, there is no justfication for either instance. That's not entertainment for me, it's just violence for the sake of a smart line and it turned my stomach.
Firstly, you're not in trouble with anyone. Opposing ideas make for interesting discussion. No one's saying he's a bad shot--I actually think he's an excellent shot and he's one of my favourite characters--it's the way he got away that disturbed some. Della said it perfectly; just because they're murderers, doesn't mean one should turn around and do exactly as they would do. There are many ways he could have survived and though I completely support him as a character, I don't support what he did in that scene. It was callous, offensive, mis-represented the character and all because the writers wanted to add in a snappy one-liner. It just doesn't fly with me, sorry. I understand where you're coming from, RedHot, because he's always been portrayed as a strong guy able to get away from the most dangerous situations but in my opinion, the fact that he may have had adrenaline rushing through his veins isn't an excuse for killing the last guy. His life stopped being in danger when he dropped. It could have gone down differently and still been entertaining for the fans.
But you are trying to apply realism to his character, when the show is done in a comic book style...sort of reminds me of sin city or snatch type style in a tv show. It isn't supposed to be realistic in anyway, the Horatio character has this superhero personal, and it is part of his character. While this might be unethical and wrong in a realistic setting, in miami setting it was an entertaining action sequence. And most likely if he didn't kill them all...he probably would have been killed. Its killed or be killed. It was over the top and ridiculous, with him shooting each one with a bullet, but it is supposed to be like that. I don't want a serious miami, i love the style for the show. It is entertaining as hell...
Hey RedHot - I hear ya - a lot of us are big Horatio fans and just want to love the guy. I know he was in danger, and some of those guys had to die - it was just the last one that really pissed me off and turned me off to H. The thing is, the show used to have realism, it used to mean something deeper, and now it doesn't. I hate it when shows break their own rules and change like that - it's just not cool, but that's just my opinion. I agree w/Della and Speed_Cochrane here. There was no reason to blow that last guy's brains out. Does no one else remember the season finale of Season 1 (I know it's ages ago ) Remember Stuart Otis - the child molester? Doesn't get much lower than that, does it? Well guess what? When he went over the side of the building, Horatio SAVED him and pulled him up, despite Otis saying "Let me die". I believe Horatio's response was "I wish I could." Otis said, "I'll just come back, it's my nature." But Horatio didn't kill him b/c of that, he SAVED him. This is why I've always LOVED Horatio, b/c he knew where to draw that line. He knew what his job was and knew that EVERY human life is sacred, and taking one should not be done lightly. Now that line has been blurred over the last few seasons - what's justifiable and what's not. If H is going to go around taking lives, he can't be the moral compass of the show, which is what he was, IMHO. He can't go around telling people "No one deserves to die" and then shoot an unarmed man. Believe me, I LOVE Horatio, I loved him working in the lab these past two eps, and I'm glad TPTB let him show some emotion and get back in the lab. That's why I'm trying to get across that what H did was so horrific. He's supposed to signify justice, and blowing that guy away was just way too disturbing. I could see the others, but not an unarmed man who was subdued. He refused to do it 6 years ago - I guess that just goes to show how H has become kind of cold over the years, and I DON'T LIKE IT!! Bring back the TRUE Horatio please!!
Ok, ok. I have replayed that scene countless times in my head today, but in the end, no matter how much I have tried to justify H's murder of that man....I can't justify it. I take back what I said earlier - I would have been ok with a nonfatal shot, but one to the head? That was just unnecessary. I have been ok with H's killings in the past because they were about to kill somebody (including H) themself, but for H to kill a defenseless man in cold blood was uncalled for. Oh well. I support the character himself, but I don't support what he did to that man. I don't detest H for this one action of his - the man he killed was a gang member, after all - H is a good man that made a somewhat bad decision. Adrenaline was rushing through his veins, and he simply relied on instinct. He should've put more thought to it, but think of it this way - that man probably would've done harm to somebody else. H could have turned him in to Brazilian authorities, but we all know what happened last time a gang member was in their hands.
Just for the record, the guy with the blade had a machete, not a sword. And, as someone who knows swords, what they can do and how to make them do what they do best, which is to kill people; that guy was definitely NOT unarmed. Just because they're not a high tech firearm doesn't make them butter knives. They can be potentially deadly if they get close enough to cut you or fatal if they get inside your arm's reach. Just because a weapon isn't modern doesn't mean it's lost it ability to kill.
Well, I'm not as good as the rest of my family at IDing guns (though I'm a damn sight better than the people who get props for these shows) but I do know that Glocks (among others) can hold 13 rounds, more with high capapcity clips. I have no idea what that thing was Horatio was using- Sig Sauar? Total wild guess on my part.
Okay, I skimmed the previous posts, but no one mentioned it yet. The music was SO great in this episode. It's from "Once Upon A Time In the West", specifically, the pre-gunfight music. Its perfect and I'll tell you why , for those of you who don't remember the plot: This is Charles Bronson's song-- He's a gunfighter whose brother was killed by Henry Fonda and his gang in a very personal way years ago, and he's been waiting for his chance at him for revenge. SPOILER ALERT for those of you who haven't seen this movie: Chuck gets his man, in a slightly fairer fight, but Henry Fonda is one mean SOB in this movie, much like the Male Noche. Chuck doesn't get the girl, though. So the music works great here for all the same reasons, and for the poker scene as well, which is a tribute to the spaghetti western. The music tells you to suspend reality. This is now a western. They do it in Brazil because its a misty, far-off place to most viewers, where lone gunfighters might still prevail. Now not to be really rude here, since I am a brand-spanking-new member, but can I give everyone who criticizes the "reality" of the situations in this episode a *little* slap in the face? Do we really want to go there? Really? If you want reality, The First 48 is an excellent program on A&E. It often covers Miami and even their CSIs. I mean, Horatio has killed enough people to qualify as a full-fledged sociopath, all of the lab processing happens the same day, their offices look fantastic, the prop gun or round often fails to go with what the script calls for, and don't even get me started on the medical scene impossibilities (I'm a nurse in real life- maybe they need a consulatant?) But let me reitirate. I LOVE this show. I love Horatio. I have developed an affinity toward David Caruso before unrealized (Proof of Life anyone?) Just leave the reality check at the door, pop up some corn, and enjoy the cinema.
Hello xfCanadian – The way I used to view CSI Miami and Horatio Caine was ‘Comic Book situation with a Semi-Realistic Character and a wonderful backdrop’ – and that worked for me. However, there were certain elements about the Horatio character you could believe in, such as his sense of justice, his sense of doing the right thing over doing something that would only satisfy himself – and MiamiRocks mentions an excellent example concerning Otis – The Child Molester. In all honesty, I think all of us are aware that CSI Miami is a fictional show with fictional characters, and that Horatio has been in some situations where Comic Book has been an accurate description of such a situation, (the “Burn, baby burn!” comes immediately to mind), however, the ‘Burn, baby burn’ situation still maintained the core of the character and also showed us just how far he would go to save those that he has been charged to protect. Yet, in my opinion, his execution of the guy with the machete ( thanks Lady10 ) stripped everything that made Horatio who he was and also conveyed something that was motivated purely by self-gratification rather than by something that had anything to do with justice. I thoroughly enjoyed the way that it was shown, but the content left a lot to be desired for me. I was entertained up until the last moments of the beginning sequence because I understood the need for Horatio taking out the ones who had the guns, the ones on the motorcycles and then the one in the car, but the one who had the machete, he had already injured him, the man was disarmed (he’d dropped his machete and Horatio had blocked him trying to retrieve it again) and yet Horatio still executed him. It was, as someone else said, completely unnecessary. It was that step too far all for a smart line and it really ruined the character for me. When I mentioned ‘disarmed’ basically the man with the machete was disarmed at the time he was murdered by Horatio because he had dropped the weapon when he’d been shot and had fallen, and Horatio had stomped on it when the guy had tried to reach for it. If the guy had charged at him waving the machete threateningly at him, and Horatio had shot him then, it would have been understandable, and there would have been no question that he had done it out of self-preservation. But that didn’t happen and the scenario that was shown had nothing to do with self-preservation, but all to do with self-gratification because the line that a few are raving about “Mala Noche justice meet Miami Justice” basically told me that the Miami justice was no better than the Mala Noche justice, and also that Horatio got as much self-gratification as they would have had had they taken Horatio down. In my opinion, Horatio should be shown to be better than the Mala Noche because of the badge he wears and what that should instil in him, but the execution scene effectively showed him to be worse than the Mala Noche, and that really incensed me. Welcome to the boards, RampRat... In all honesty, my complaint has nothing at all to do with the "reality" of the "situation", because the "reality" in such a "situation" would be that Horatio would have been killed outright the moment he had stepped through the gate. My complaint is that they sacrificed all that the Horatio character stood for by having him execute the guy with the machete and, thinking about it, they also undermined what exactly Miami justice stood for as well. ~ ~ Um, I know that I’ve gone on and on about this one scene and that perhaps I may be making a mountain out of a molehill, and I do apologise for that, but as far as I’m concerned it was a very important scene, and I feel that the core of the Horatio character was sacrificed just so that he could utter one stupid, smart line. Simply put, I don’t believe in the character anymore and I can’t see myself cheering him on now, because I will always wonder what his true motivation is - Something like "Did he kill to protect or because he enjoys it so much?" Phew! Sorry about this looooong post
In my opinion, Horatio has sinned in the past and no bigger than when he hunted down Riaz for personal vengeance - and that he took Eric Delko along with him. But the difference is, it was understandable then. Riaz had effectively murdered his wife, Marisol, and his Brother, Ray, and was influencing his nephew (forgotten his name, sorry - Ray jnr?). Riaz had also promised Horatio that he would take out all those who was closest to him. In my opinion, Horatio's lust for vengeance, while I thought was disagreeable, it was understandable, but he didn't have such a fallback when it came to executing the guy with the machete. In all honesty, I think you could say that every life Horatio has taken has been a sin, but sometimes it is understandable why he has. In my opinion, given what we had been shown about the Horatio character, there was no justification for what he did to the guy with the machete, and for me, nor is it understandable. What Horatio did was, in my opinion, the exact same thing the Mala Noche, the Mafia, and so on, would do and yet Horatio should be above that not only because of the badge he holds, but most importantly, because of the reasons why he chooses to do the job that he does.