TQ Winner - Week 14 Topic Question: When writing fanfictions related to the CSI franchise how do you come up with ideas for specific cases? When you come up with the ideas, how do you write them? How do you know what evidence to have the CSI's find? How do you present it? Winnner: LLK (oh, come on, it had to be! That was the most detiled response I've seen in a long time! TQ: When I’m writing fanfics I usually rely heavily on romance or on the dynamic of all of the characters. My CSI fics don’t live up to the name “CSI” too terribly well because I don’t focus on the cases as much as I should. My fics are a lot more like the CSI of Vegas’s season 8, I worry way too much about the characters. However I always do have at least one pretty significant case in the story I’m working on at the time. Sometimes I present a bunch of smaller cases. In my fic “Elaborate Lives” I had them working on a new case in almost every chapter. It was as though the chapters came along as episodes. I’d have dialogue as the forefront of interest in the chapter, dialogue about one thing or another, but then in the background I’d slip in some detail about the case. In one chapter in particular I had the entire team, including my OC, called to a scene. It was the mass murder of an entire family. Well I slipped snippets of “Nick noticed a print on the door frame and leaned down to collect it.” and “Greg was about to step outside for some air and a little sanctuary from the massive blood bath he was working in when he noticed something strange, there was a key sitting on the window frame next to the front door.” But that was all mixed in to a very heavy romance scene between Warrick and Catherine. It was actually pretty cute the way I did it. Even if it was all mixed in to a crime scene. The point is that I frequently don’t rely too heavily on the crime solving aspect of CSI because I’m not too good at writing a dramatic murder and then walking the investigators all the way through the solving process. That was actually part of my ulterior motive for selecting this as my TQ. I was hoping to learn a bit from everyone. However from time to time I do write a fic or two that focus heavily on a certain crime. I’ll spend the entire time writing the fic dabbling and out of certain bits of evidence. Like I said I rely almost solely on the personal dynamic to tell my stories but I’d feel blasphemous if I didn’t include a little crime here or there. I rely on the personal aspect because I feel like I’m good at it. The decade I spent doing theatre taught me a lot about characterization and I am quite prone to believing that I have a pretty firm grasp on my characters, so I show it off a little. Back to the point of a central case though. I’d start out with the idea, basically, that there was a case or something that they just couldn’t solve for whatever reason. I don’t know why I think I’m going to be so much better at writing a case that stumps the CSI’s than a run of the mill “trick roll” or something like that, but I guess I just live for a challenge, ya know? But I still do it to myself. In my current project fic, “Things Fall Apart” (I had it featured once long while back) I have most of the focus relying on discovering all of the details of a specific murder. This is one time, however, that I have a lot of the information that I’m going to deliver planned out. I think the two biggest things that helped me decide what to use (which I won’t reveal because the fic hasn’t been finished yet) were sitting down and having someone talk it through with me and having a good sense of back story. Deciding who is going to sit down and talk it out with you can be hard though. I have a few CSI fanfic writing friends who have some very distinct qualities. One is very prone to empathy and tends to think through every detail of a fanfic from the emotional perception of the characters involved. That’s a great and helpful thing sometimes, but other times it takes me weeks to put out a chapter because we can’t agree on how mean I should or shouldn’t be. Another friend I have is absolutely cruel with her characters. The things she comes up with and the suggestions she makes sometimes make me marvel at her ability to think up scenarios for CSI. Honestly I often wish I could find a way to pitch one of her plots to the writers. She’s amazing, and very detailed. She’s the person I most enjoy going to for advice on how to work out cases and stuff like that. As for the usefulness of back story. I was taught that you don’t just want to know what’s important “right now” in the character’s life, but all of the important things. What was their first kiss like? Do they have any brothers and/or sisters? Were they a happy child? Do they have a dog? Is there mother pretty? And though when I was 11 the first time I had to do a project involving “complex characterization and back story” I thought it was absurd, I can’t say that I still have the same sentiment. Anyone who has ever even thought about embarking on a co-authored fic with me realizes really quickly that I’m so sickeningly detail oriented with my characterization that it drives them a little nuts. That’s why I love writing with Bauerfreak so much (and because she’s an awesome author, read her stuff) because she puts up with my stopping every ten minutes to question the person’s “motive” for saying or doing what they did. This kind of attention to character can only help me when I’m writing a murder. I may not be good at dropping fibers, hairs, or fingerprints but I am a pro when it comes to the reason for the crime. That helps, knowing so much about the character, to figure out what kinds of things they might leave behind. As Grissom says “they always leave a part of them behind.” I realize that I just wrote all of that and I haven’t even begun to address the other part of the question. How do I decide on the cases? Well I guess I covered it a bit in the above paragraph but I’ll go into it a little more. Usually the cases I choose are either generic run of the mill “cases” like the ones that you’ll see every day on CSI. Like a jealous wife, spurned lover, competitive college student, or uh... a bar fight gone wrong. However sometimes I like to be a little fun so I think of things, obscure sects of humanity, that obviously have their own share of casualties but may not get the front running on screen. The sort of communities like the “little people” of “A Little Murder” or the “Furries” of “Fur and Loathing.” So you’ll sometimes see some really abstract murders and motives. Well I don’t think that you guys could possibly have any more stamina for reading this so I’m going to cut it out and move on to the critique part of this. Sorry for saying so much, I guess I had a lot more to say about the issue than I thought. Weird considering that I really chose this TQ in hopes that I would personally learn something. Not that I don’t do so frequently. (Yay for being in charge and using your powers for corrupt, albeit interesting, reasons.)
TQ: How much detail should a writer go into? How do you know when to quit? How much is enough without being too much? I was hoping to have time to think about this before having to try and answer it myself! I’m only just starting to share what I write with other people. Up until now, anything I’ve written has been just for me, so detail has never been a problem – if it isn’t written down, that’s because it’s in my head, I know it’s there, I just have to picture it for myself. Now that I’ve written almost one whole story that I feel I can share with other people, I find it’s completely different. I know how things look, who said what, and so on, but it’s how to put that down on paper so that other people see or hear it the way I want them to, the way I intended. Not putting across an idea well can maybe alter the whole feel of the story. I suppose you have to put in enough detail to explain things, to share your own vision and feel of the story with the reader, and enough background, description, detail etc. to move the story on, but not so much that it becomes irrelevant, or detracts from the story, or makes it boring. I guess that takes practice. If a story is well written, and the detail just right, it won’t leave the reader bogged down in endless wordiness, but will enable them to picture a scene, or process a bit of back story, or whatever, as they’re reading. If it’s done badly, I guess it can leave the reader either skipping bits to get back to the ‘real’ story, or even re-reading a bit because it feels like they’ve missed something. But none of that answers the question, how do you know how much is enough? Answer: I don’t know, that’s why I asked in the first place!! (Oh, I’m not very good at this!) Better move on to my critique of the story. I really liked it. It was simple and sweet. It comes across at first as just a conversation in passing, but for me there's a subtlety to it that has such depth and meaning that it was so much more than 'just a conversation'. I like the way you portrayed Eric and Natalia’s relationship. It was obvious that they were still such good friends that they could talk together like this, in what you wrote as quite an intimate way. I also loved some of the little touches, like Ryan trying to impress Calleigh with his charcoal lighting skills – and how about Eric, of all people, giving relationship advice? Nice one!! The only thing I noted is that you kept switching tenses in the narrative. For example: “A party is in full swing at my house as I head inside ... I grabbed a container of shrimp from the refrigerator and head back toward the patio doors when I spotted Natalia...” Apart from that, there was nothing to fault. Great story, beautifully written! Just one thing – what’s wrong with microwaved shrimp?! Leni
Hey everyone, I'm just popping in to say I'll probably not be posting in here for a couple of weeks. There's a few crappy things going on in RL that need my attention right now, and I just feel I wont have the time to keep up the deadlines for critiques and stuff. My fanfics, icons and even my college work has seemed to stop because of other nasty stuff I still plan on critiqueing the fics that are featured while I'm away, but I'll PM the author. And I'm not leaving for good, I <3 this group, I just feel I'm not making a commitment right now and I already missed last weeks deadline. So after that rambly post this is goodbye for a couple of weeks and hopefully I'll be back soon. LeAnne xx
Oh no! We'll miss you! I understand about R/L and all. I know that this group can make scheduling in real life a pain. Imagine how tough it is for me having to be here to update it every week? But... we'll still miss you. Oh... and while I'm back to post (CalleighD you might really wish you could stay) I've just realized that next week is going to be our second 8 week period! So that means that it's time for us to have another "special project" or "critique by challenge." I think I've already worked out the details for the challenge and I think I'm going to run it just like we did last time. I'm really excited! This one's going to be a litte tougher... but not too hard. We still all want to do that next week right? I know it went well last time. Let me know if you want to do it next week or not. I'm still irning out the details for the challenge. -LLK
Nora, Zelda, and Leni...thanks for your critiques! I really do appreciate them and try to learn. In fact, the story I wrote I did specifically with the critiques I got with my first story featured here in mind. Those critiques all mentioned that the point of view in the story switched near the end. And honestly, I'd NEVER thought about POV when writing a story...I'd always just sat down and wrote. I'm no English major by far, in fact English was not my best subject in school...not my worst, but certainly not my best (I HATED literature). So, to make a long story short I tried to write a story in one point of view, I concentrated on making sure the POV didn't change. And I'm guessing I did okay on that end since no one's mentioned a switch in the POV...yet . Nora...believe it or not, but Natalia is one of my least favorite characters on the show. Nothing against Eva LaRue, I just don't care for Natalia. But, my idea for the story started with the picture thing, and I wanted to bring out how it was evident to anyone seeing the picture just how in love Eric & Calleigh were, and the connection they shared. To do this I needed a conversation between Eric and someone intuitive enough to see what I wanted them to see. I thought of Horatio, but Horatio doesn't have a relationship with any regular female character, Ryan doesn't have as good of a relationship with Eric as the others, and Valera just didn't seem like a good fit. Natalia was the only character that seemed to fit. And it worked out well! I think she's rubbing off on me. As for the sentence ("You'll have that, even if...") that was left hanging, that was done by design...Eric stopped talking to Natalia because he sensed that Calleigh was coming...hence that connection. However, in my mind, as I was writing it, the sentence if continued would have been "...it's not with Ryan." Zelda...the ending was hard to get to. I only wanted a short one-shot that would explain the picture & connection...but how to do the ending without dragging out the story? Hard to do. I'm in the middle of another story I have the same quandry...I've gotten out the feelings I wanted told, but again am struggling with how to end it. Perhaps I should have paid more attention in English Literature classes! Leni...you're right about the tenses. In fact, when I first went to edit the story before posting it, I found places where I'd done that. I just didn't find all of them :lol:! The hazards of trying a new writing style (all in the first person) and concentrating so hard on trying not to swith the POV. I find when I write, that keeping it all in the correct tense is my worst habit...I do that ALL the time. In fact, when I edit my stories, I find that is the most frequent mistake I make. See...again...I should have paid more attention in English class! As for the microwave...I live and die by the microwave and toaster oven. God bless the person that invented both. Jen
No, I haven't detected anything amiss with your POV. The sentence about H was hilarious ... I won't explain, but jeez the man has to grow up. Actually, I have always wondered why I didn't like Natalia. It's like my hairs stand on end when she's in the picture. Strange, cuz I'm sure Eva LaRue is a great person. Well, I guess what I'm trying to say is: thx, for a lovely story ... everyone else in the EC fandom seems to have gone MIA. So, bless you! Nora
Another challenge? I just missed the last one, but... I'll try anything once! Looking forward to it Leni
CalleighD: I'm in the middle of a bout with r/l as well (I say that like it's some kind of disease, lol), so I know how you feel. I hope everything works out for you! Jennifer: Endings are something I struggle with, too, which is probably why I commented on yours. I find myself writing well past where I thought the piece would end, or stopping abruptly to avoid rambling on. Mine seem to be getting better with practice, though, and I know yours will too And I'm really excited about the challenge! I was around but unable to participate in the last one, so I got to hear about how much fun it was. Can't wait to see what we're going to have to include this time...
Well since it's "challenge" time again I have 2 ideas and I want you guys to vote on which you would rather do. Please keep in mind that I need to know your choices by Saturday night so I can make our traditional change over on Sunday. Edited to note that the Scavenger Hunt will include a prize at the end of the two week period. (nothing ama amazing though). We can't do this for the challenge because everyone participates equally. Please feel free to tell us why you decided upon what you did.
TQ Winner - Week 15 Topic Question: How much detail should a writer go into? How do you know when to quit? How much is enough without being too much? Winner: Zelda49 Talk about a tough question this week! And my answer, I think it going to be kind of vague. Because for me, when I’m writing detail seems intuitive to me. There’s a fine line to walk when it comes to how much is enough, how much is too little, and how much becomes burdensome to the reader, and I generally trust my instincts to tell me when I’m on the mark. One thing I consciously do, though, is try to slip details into the story where the reader will take them in, but hopefully not be thinking about them. Things like “He rested his palms on the table and leaned forward, raising an eyebrow at her when he answered.” provide a picture for the reader but are (hopefully) unobtrusive enough that the reader isn’t processing words but picturing the scene in his/her mind. I also like to keep my vocabulary simple. That’s not to say that I don’t like to use descriptive words, but I don’t pull out the SAT words, either. I don’t want my reader to have to sit with a dictionary to get through the story (because they won’t—and neither would I), nor do I feel the need to impress people with my knowledge of words. I actually would rather my reader not even think about me because s/he is too involved in the story to give me a second thought! :lol: Not at all, you're work is as unique as you. That's the whole fun of fan-fiction. I agree, Zelda. Some writes go totally over board with detail that makes the story tiring to read, I do it myself sometimes. But then there are others who are very 'he said, she said' about everything and the whole, 'this then this then this' thing becomes tiring. Sometimes detail is paramount to a story. In some of my own work where I use little dialogue, detail is of up most importance. Then again, over describing a moment where two people are trying to converse can confuse the reader. I agree, it's all about intuition. You're not alone. Endings for a fic are the most difficult to write. I mean, how do you know when you've come to an end. I always try to leave the reader with something to think about. Not sure how successful I am with that though :lol:. Take care sweetheart, we'll miss you ! I too missed this weeks critique. And for that, I apologize profusely. I've just dropped my med course, and I'm been working really hard on getting onto a conversion course in a few months. But I'm back now, and should be able to commit to next weeks challenge . I'll make it my priority. And welcome, Nora. Glad you made your way over here.
Technical Question: How much detail should a writer go into? How do you know when to quit? How much is enough without being too much? I think the answer to your question starts first with the question of 'How long do you intend the story to be?' If you look at well written novels, they go into quite a bit of detail. A writer may take several paragraphs exploring the scene a character sees while sitting on a beach even though the scenery itself isn't the main focus of the paragraph. Yet, on the other extreme there are short stories that just give sketchy detail and yet are well rounded, moving stories. And the next important decision is what you're trying to accomplish with the story and whether extensive detail is important to the story or useful to the emotional impact or whether detail would just wind up being filler to make it longer. You want detail to be there to enhance the story, not to bore the reader. It should feel natural, not tedious. I think the most important thing once you've made those decisions is to remain relatively consistent about the amount of detail throughout the story. I think that is one thing that everyone occasionally has problems with -- even the writers of a few episodes of the CSI shows. Think about the occasional episode of CSI or something else you've seen where there has been great detail in the case and some good intrigue when suddenly it was as if the writer said "Oops! We only have three minutes left for the episode..." Then there is suddenly a miraculous piece of evidence with some non-intuitive explanation for how that suddenly wraps up the whole investigation. So, when writing you want to avoid either running out of steam and having an ending far more abrupt than you would expect or having a light story suddenly get bogged down with an ending that bogged down by heavy explanations to make up for having little detail earlier. The Look of Love review I really like the idea of working the story around a photo that captured a moment in time. I think it worked really well with Eric's flashes of remembrance and the way you explored Eric and Calleigh's relationship through Natalia's point of view. You did a lot with a very short fiction and gave us a very in depth view of Eric and Calleigh's relationship. You also gave a good portrait of Eric and Natalia's friendship that they feel comfortable in discussing each other's deepest feelings. I felt bad for Natalia feeling the way she does at the moment. I like the touches of humor added to make the story a little lighter with Eric thinking he'll need the bottle of oxygen, Ryan trying to impress Calliegh with lighting the grill, and Horatio's microwave cooking skills. Plot wise, the only slight problem I see is from a strict "cannon" point of view. Eric is being sweet and gentle and trying to make Natalia realize that someone right for her will come along and that she'll know it when it happens. Yet, he says he never felt a connection with the women he's dated before, and in the cannon universe he'd be saying that to a woman that he dated and who thought briefly that she was pregnant with his child. Even though she's obviously very happy for Eric and Calleigh, as alone as she's feeling at the moment, that could still sting to hear that he didn't feel a connection with her back then. To be honest, that's more my problem than yours. Most of the fan fiction I see does disregard cannon to some extent, and since I'm newer to fan fiction, that's just an aspect that I'm working on getting used to. As others have mentioned, the alternating between present tense and past tense was a bit jarring, but that's already been discussed so there's no need to say more. There were a few comma problems, but judging from the whole story, your comma usage is good in general so they were probably just incidental. Overall, your writing is very good and your style is very enjoyable!
^^ Sorry, GreenEyes. I had to post the winner now, as I'm not going to be here tomorrow. But your answer was great, and I encourage people to read it
I know I said earlier I'd love to do the challenge, I just realised that it's a 2-weeker, so I can't really do it this time as I won't be around for the second week. But for future reference, I like both ideas for the challenge, and will definitely take part next time - I hope! Have fun, y'all, see you when I get back in March. Leni
Hey *waves* I'm back and I really wanna participate in this challenge thing so I'm making time for this and I'm staying (and doing something for me). I was in a bit of a funny mood when I wrote that last post and I'd already missed 2 critiques and I didn't want you all to think I'd just abandoned the group. I will definitly be able to participate in these next two weeks because I will make the time. *if I'm not making any sense I'm sorry but I'm really tired* And I like the traditional challenge idea Maybe it'll kick my muse into shape? LeAnne x
Okay Ready? The rules: 1. If you write a fic for the challenge you are obligated to write a critique for the fic you're assigned next week. 2. All challenge fics are due by Saturday. 3. Do not post any links here in the FCG that way we keep the element of surprise. 4. PM me a link to your challenge fic. 5. Have fun! The Challenge: 1. Less than 1, 500 words. 2. PG 13 or lower. 3. "Valentines Day" is the theme. 4. Must be a ship/fandom/character you've never written before. IE If you usually write "YoBling" for Vegas but you've never tried writing Grissom focused story, that's okay or just write for NY or Miami if you've never tired that before. (This is what I'm going to have to do.) 5. Must begin with the line: "It's snowing..." I'll make a post so you know what your assignment is next Sunday. Have fun!