Why Lindsay Must Stay!

I agree with you. Mac saw his friends massacred in Beirut, but he didn't leave the case in COTP even when he was given specific reminders of the Beirut bombing by the bomber. The whole COTP case must surely have also reminded him of 9/11 - when the bomber said 'we're not ready' he obviously meant we're still not ready even after 9/11. Mac didn't leave the scene or case in The Deep either, which again involved a terrorist, nor does he walk away from having to deal with grieving husbands. Stella did not leave the crime scene in Open and Shut despite the blatant similarities to her 'own' crime scene from All Access and the painful memories of the whole Frankie incident that case evoked for her. Hawkes did not walk away from the hospital crime scene in Mrs Azrael despite having painful memories/connections there. Danny didn't leave the scene in HNA despite how clearly and painfully it reminded him of Reuben. Flack did not leave the scene or case when confronted by terrorists in the Deep or in Snow Day (drug guys with the IRA). I don't condemn Lindsey for struggling to deal with the case in SN. I just think it was unprofessional of her to simply say 'I can't be here' and run off with no explanation or apology, even later when Stella asked what was wrong. I like seeing characters have conflicts/issues with crime scenes and cases, it makes for interesting and believable viewing. But in my opinion, Lindsey's abandoning the crime scene in SN was ridiculous. If she struggles with such cases (those involving mothers/dead teen girls) that's fine but she needs to learn to deal with her problems in a more professional way just like THE ENTIRE REST OF THE TEAM have done in the past. The writers really let the Lindsey's Big Secret and the Lindsey character down with that one scene in SN. It's like she decided 'I don't like this crime scene, so I'm leaving'. Like Stella (and several people here) said, she's there to do her job and she should do it. If she has conflicts, she should be adult enough to explain them to her superiors. I'm not saying she has to tell them everything, all she had to do was tell them she was once the victim of a similar crime and admit she couldn't deal with it. Saying 'I can't be here' or 'I can't talk to mothers' is NOT explaining her problems in an adult and professional way.

 

I am by no means Lindsey's biggest fan, but since Season 4 started i have found her more bearable, maybe it has (and I too don't want to bring this up but I do feel its a major factor) is that the "crush" between her and Danny has seemed to have disappeared. In the UK we've just had 4x03 and her and Danny bantering back and forth about the Batmobile and geeking out about processing the car was quite good to watch.

I agree with everyone who has pointed out her bratty and unproffesional behaviour in Season 3, plus those that have mentioned that her PTSD doesn't happen in the Season 2 Episode "Manhatten Manhunt" where the scene was far more likely to effect her, and as someone has already pointed out, why can she deal with fathers and not mothers? This was not answered, not even with the court case.

In "Stealing Home" I personally thought Lindsey dealing with the father of that young girl was well done and well portrayed, it gave me a little bit of an insight into the character but again in Season 3 there is no trace of the trait.

If they kept Lindsey light and fluffy, and a bit of a know it all (teacher's pet) then I think I could handle her better. As long as the other characters reacted to that, it doesn't matter what Lindsey does everyone treats her the same (apart from Flack, who does actually seem to have a problem with her...? maybe that's just me) if Danny reacted to her sucking up to Mac, or Hawkes had called her out on making him cover for her, after putting him in a difficult posistion then maybe I could come round to finding her more of an interesting character and even if I didn't like her I could find a point to her.

At the moment though, unfortunately, she doesn't add anything to the show.

 

^I too like Lindsey's lighter moments (though NOT the 'I rock' scene). What gets me about her character is the inconsistency - she's fine in Manhattan Manhunt but not in SN?
At least when the other characters act unprofessionally it's in character. It was unprofessional of Mac to storm out of the hearing in Comes Around but it FIT with how he'd acted in the earlier Dobson eps. Also, Mac explained (although not too rationally) to Flack why he stormed out- he believed he was going to be made a scapegoat, he believed the 'hearing' would be unfair, the lawyer b*tch accused him of deliberate and cold-blooded murder (when all he did was break protocol, he did not deliberately push Dobson). Mac also did not push away Stella and Peyton when they reached out to him. Danny acted unprofessionally in both OTJ and last week's ep, but again it FITS with his character. Also, while dealing with difficult/personal crime scenes is something Lindsay should have expected as a CSI, being a murder suspect is something neither Mac nor Danny likely anticipated they'd ever have to deal with.

 

You realize you’re displacing your anger here, yes? You should be getting angry at the writers, not Lindsay. They’re the ones with the continuity issues. The character of Lindsay had nothing to do with how the storyline was written.

I see what you’re saying about the counselling, but they haven’t really given her much screen time this season. It’s hard to ask that when we don’t see her all that often.

Again, that’s the writers’ folly, not Lindsay’s.

What I’ve discovered on here is the definition of ‘disagreeing’ is arbitrary. Some of you have been just plain mean to people who were just stating their opinions. That’s why, as discovered in that poll in this forum a few months back asking why people weren’t posting a lot of respondents said they were tired of having to defend themselves every single post because they like Lindsay. It’s not good. In fact, it’s a serious problem.

Well, I’m sorry, but I have this thing called a life. I don’t have time, as you may have, to do that. From skimming you can get the jist of what’s been said.

It’s understandable to want your coworkers to respect you enough to call you by your own name. It was unprofessional for Danny to just start calling her Montana like that. He did it, in the beginning, because he knew it pissed her off. It reminded me so much of a five year old boy on the playground. And the Stella thing, she DID apologize for that. She explained that she was going through something and needed to deal with it. Stella forgave her, so why can’t you?

Yes, she did! Did you not watch the end of that episode? She went to Stella and they talked, Lindsay explained that some friends of hers were murdered. She wasn’t acting unprofessional just for the fun of it; there were issues there and she and Stella both acknowledged them at the end. We saw a little follow up during the phone conversation in Sleight Out of Hand, but not having anything else was, again, the WRITER’S fault.

And again, life. I have one. You obviously don’t.

She couldn’t have just run in there, THAT would have been unprofessional. She had to let the team that was already assembled work.

It’s called remorse. She said to him, “It should have been me.” That’s a normal response. If I asked someone to take my shift at work and some crazed gunman came in shooting up the place, and my co-worker took a bullet, I’d feel pretty guilty too!

Where’s your proof of this? Was there a conversation later where she said to Danny, “So I asked Stella about you and Aiden. She said you were like, close.” No, that never happened.

You know, I was very civil in my post. A lot more civil than you have been, at least (but then that’s not saying much. You really know how to jump on people). I was just preparing myself for the worst. It’s always a good idea to do that; that way you’re never disappointed.

Yeah, that’s what I like about forums. But do we need three, count ‘em, THREE threads discussing the exact same thing?

Middle ground? I don’t think so. Have you read some of these posts? The pro-Lindsay people come in once, get totally torn apart, and never come back. I’m actually questioning right now why I’m not following suit.

Like I said, always expect the worst. That way I’m never disappointed. Surprised, sometimes, but never disappointed.

I think on some level Lindsay thought she was okay. Like she said in Love Run Cold, she thought she had put it behind her, but she hadn’t. What probably happened is Lindsay decided that she was fine but still wanted to do something in honour of her friends, like tracking down and locking up criminals. How many times have we seen that with television characters? It’s the oldest play in the book.

Once again, blame. the. writers. That had nothing to do with Lindsay! I’ve seen this problem on CSI (and other crime shows) again and again. It’s not something you can pin on the character.

 

That crossed my mind also but I don't think it has anything to do w/ honor the minute you start picking and choosing cases that make you feel comfortable. If anything she should have been fighting even harder to solve this case if it hit so close to home and it was about honor.

Also I still don't understand even if you think you are ok why go into a job that you know could possibly bring back those feelings? Even if you thought you had put it behind you.

And I'm sorry but this might just be me but you seem to blame the writers for a lot of the points you disagree with. The writers aren't the only people running this primetime circus. Everyone has input right down to the actors.

 

There have been alot of arguments as to whose fault it is that Lindsay is so unlikeable, or why her character is inconsistent. Some people say its all the writer's faults, some say its the actress herself messing up.

I dont think we can blame one and not the other for all of Lindsay's flaws. Like some one said earlier (I think it was Top41, but don't hold me to that, im too lazy to hit the back button and check :lol, the actors and actresses on the show do have some part in creating their character. Carmine Giovinazzo has had much to say about his character, how he thinks he will act and why he believes Danny Messer is the way he is. The rest of the cast seems to be able to do that as well. They have embraced their characters and who they are, and they have an excellent idea as to how to portray them. Anna Belknap, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have this. Her acting isn't convincing to me, and when she's playing the part of Lindsay Monroe, that is all I see: an actress playing a character, not embracing the character. When I see Flack, or Danny, or Mac, i don't doubt that I am seeing Flack, Danny, and Mac. I never once think that I'm simply watching Eddie Cahill, Carmine Giovinazzo, and Gary Sinise doing their jobs. Those characters seem real to me, and Lindsay doesn't.
Part of this is the writing, I know. The deep dark secret was conjured to cover up Anna's leave for her pregnancy, and its easy to tell. A scene full of murdered teenagers doesn't phase Lindsay one bit, in fact she complains at being sent away, but a single dead girl months later makes her run from the room yelling 'leave me alone'? I don't think the writers thought that storyline out well at all, and the same goes for the character of Lindsay. First she's the spunky out of town girl in the big city, tackling suspects into cars. Then she's flirting with Danny. Then she's not that into him. Then she has a deep dark secret and can't handle crime scenes. Then she loves Danny. The writing for her has bounced around, and IMO its easy to tell that the writers still don't have a hold on her.
But at the same time, what has Anna done for the role? Maybe her character isnt fleshed out as she should be (and there is no excuse for that, seeing as she's been on the show for three seasons), but Anna should still be able to play her in a way that makes her convincing. While some see Lindsay's exclamations and actions on the show as being "sweet" and "cute", others see them as being the whiny exclamations of a petulant child, or an immature teenager. With any other character on the show, I don't think there is ever any doubt as to what the character is supposed to be acting like. I never doubt Danny's or Flack's or Stella's intentions when they speak, or what they are really trying to get across. With Lindsay, I'm always questioning.

My point is, yeah, there was weak writing for Lindsay Monroe, but at the same time Anna Belknap didn't put much into becoming her character and doesn't do too well of a job delivering what lines she has with the fervor and convincing air that the other actors have. Both of these things combined are what really messed up the character of Lindsay for me.

 

First things first. To MakeTracksCowboy: I wasn't trying to be condescending or bitchy; I wasn't thinking and and I'm sorry.

We know that the writers are to blame for some of what's wrong with the Lindsay character. It's been said numerous times that the dislike for Lindsay is based on more than one factor. Their inconsistency with Lindsay's personality and failure to satisfactorily resolve her secret is still a problem with Lindsay, however, and contributes to people disliking her.

Having a different opinion and stating that opinion confidently is not being "mean" to other posters. That's another point that came out of the WAYP thread.

The other people here have lives too. They still make time to read the threads they post in so they are aware of what's been said.

It's not uncommon to give co-workers nicknames. If she didn't like the nickname because she wanted respect from Danny, she shouldn't have turned right around and acted like she liked him calling her "Montana" as some cute nickname. And the way she delivered the line "my name is Lindsay. Lindsay Monroe" made her sound more like a five year old who missed their nap than a professional who wanted respect.

She apologized after Stella played the supervisor card, much like a teenager would apologize after mom yelled at her for disobeying. For me the apology just didn't ring true. It felt like she was only doing it to keep Stella from reporting her behavior. Again, some things are the WRITERS' fault, but that still reflects on the character's likeability.

She's a cop too. The other cops were on their guard and ready to act. She was standing around with a blank look on her face. If she wasn't prepared to do a job she shouldn't have been there.

Feeling guilty is normal. Expressing that guilt is normal. Dragging a badly injured man out of a warehouse and then stopping half way out before he's received any medical attention to say "it should have been me" is self absorbed, IMO.

Why would Lindsay have had to talk to Danny to make the interpretations of her words and actions in the scene with Stella valid? You might not agree with how she came off in that scene, but it's still a valid interpretation.

Disagreeing with you and stating why is not being uncivil or "jumping on people." You can prepare yourself for "the worst" without stating that you expect people to flame you. You're basically saying you think the people here are purposely nasty when you've never even posted before.

 

She deliberately stood up Danny, and didn't so much as credit him with a call. That's pretty mean, I'd think. I'd be hurt and pissed anyway.

Whether or not we've actually seen any fall out from it, she was what I would qualify as 'mean' to Adam now on two separate occasions, both of which have been brought to light time and time again.

But Lindsay is the product of Anna and the writers.

Anna's input + writers input = Lindsay Monroe the character

So, I think to have distaste for 'Lindsay' makes sense and isn't really suggesting Anna or the writers were the sole culprit of making a really thin and reasonably unlikable character.

The writers may have written that bit where she hauled Danny away, but you can't chalk everything up to a mistake in the writing. Most of the time, they're pretty careful about what makes it to screen and what doesn't, and pretty picky about what characters say which lines etc... so, for a writer to write Lindsay as having done something means the writers saw fit that she, as a character, would do that.

I don't think it's too much to ask for a series regular. They wouldn't have even had to show her in counseling or anything to that extent, even the insinuation, or an appointment coming up in conversation would have implied that she is going. This also ties into a solid point people have made a while back; when can "she hasn't been around that long" stop being a valid excuse for her to be this far in and still be barely one dimensional? A lot of the recurring roles have made themselves into real characters in much less time.

I don't think a normal response is "it SHOULD have been me," but rather, "it COULD have been me," but in either case I don't think the time or place to voice those thoughts is while the gun barrels are still cooling. While we might all think about ourselves in a moment of crisis, most of us have a strong enough mental filter that we know when the focus of all attention should be on the state of the victims.

Like someone said, Danny just stepped out of the war-zone and she tosses him a self-serving statement that obligates him to console her.

It's been said before that that is exactly why the 'Lindsay - You've got friends kiddo!' thread is primarily positive. Because people wanted a place to talk about Lindsay without having to defend her. This is a discussion and civil debate thread. Defending your opinions here comes with the territory.

I really don't think there's anything stopping anyone with opposing view points to coming in here and tactfully poking holes in arguments anymore than regulars in this thread already do.

It's kind of like... blaming the home team when the away team doesn't show. If you don't think there is enough valid support for the points of view you subscribe to, why not join in the conversation and drum some up?

 

This was posted half-way up the page, but I had to mention -

It depends on the definition of "girlfriends", but it's definitely been made obvious that Stella and Lindsay are very chummy. Umm... off the top of my head...
Okay, there's a scene after Stella gets the parachute from Drew, where Lindsay and Stella are walking in the hallway together - Stella asks for good news, Lindsay counts the days till Christmas and mentions Stella's gift - that makes their relationship seem friendlier than the average boss-employee. Then there's the time Mac gets impatient with Lindsay's seemingly unconnected explanation on something and Stella says, "Shh - it's always worth it," with a smile [I guess she doesn't find Lindsay's exp.s annoying]. Erm, then there's the phone call from the court house back in season 3... Stella refers to Lindsay as "Kiddo", which is unarguably meant to be an endearing name. In the episode where Stella thought she was being stalked (with the puzzles), Lindsay's involvement and support struck me as being completely out of concern for Stella, very much the way Danny stuck with Stella in "Cold Reveal".
Stella seems to be the first and foremost relationship (besides Danny) that the writers have focused on for Lindsay, beginning with Lindsay's first episode, when Stella helps her out in the break room.
Stella's surrounded by all these guys all day, so she seems to have taken her female co-worker under her wing a bit.

There's a reason why Lindsay must stay. Stella really likes her. Trust the Greek!

Am I the only one who found the socially awkard scientist line funny... ah well.

 

Has anyone brought up the point that maybe somany people dislike Lindsay because it gives them someone to hate in the show? People love to hate.

 

I don't think that is a fair or reasonable assessment of why people on this board dislike her. It also suggests the opposite: that people like her just for the sake of liking her. This is beginning to sound like my ipod stuck on repeat, but people who dislike her for the most part have given reasonable, thoughtful reasons why and they keep repeating themselves over and over.

So, no, it's not just because "people love to hate" but because people like to use their thought processes and articulate why they don't like a particular character.

 

That's a good possibility, but those characters whom we love to hate, are usually pretty obviously created just for that reason. A lot of the time they're unreasonably grinchy, just so we can all go "ooooo I hate that guy!" Much like I spend my time doing with Gerrard, Stetler or Ecklie etc. Lindsay, I don't think we're supposed to hate. In fact, everytime they turn a new leaf with her (which is pretty frequent, I might add) she seems as though she's trying to appeal to some other little demographic, until evvvvvvveryone will think shes amazing. It's like theres a whole lot of build up, we're supposed to love her and get her, but I'm not seeing enough validation to buy it.

 

Sometimes I feel the show is lacking slightly by not having a character that we love to hate, there isn't some IAB dude trailing on every breath and fighting them like there was in Miami, and I get the impression from reading though some of the threads on this board that some of that gets shoved on to Lindsay because of writing slip ups, other than that I like her as a character.

Springmoon I agree this starts to sound like a broken record sometimes. I'm not into fighting over characters until I'm the same colour as the site background in the face but this argument over Lindsay has been going on for so long right now it is getting tiring after such a long time.

 

Gerrard doesn't fill your jerk-quota? hehe ^_^