(Or, Because I don't want things to get too quiet in here, and I want Fay to have something good to come back to. ) NB: This is not a shipper thread. This isn't about whether Danny and Flack belong together, whether Danny and Lindsay belong together, or whether CSI: NY should have an orgy episode. Time and time again we've seen Flack go out of his way for Danny, from trying to comfort him in "On the Job" to making sure he was safe in "Run Silent, Run Deep" to meeting him at a bar for a heart-to-heart in "...Comes Around" to chasing him around the city in "All in the Family" and making sure he did the right thing. Do you think Flack loves Danny? I'm not talking about romantic feelings or lust, I'm talking about a deep, passionate caring for another person. Courtesy of dictionary.com, here are some definitions of love, both the noun and the verb: love [luhv] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, loved, lov·ing. –noun 1. a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person. 2. a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for a parent, child, or friend. 3. sexual passion or desire. 4. a person toward whom love is felt; beloved person; sweetheart. –verb (used with object) 15. to have love or affection for: All her pupils love her. 16. to have a profoundly tender, passionate affection for (another person). 17. to have a strong liking for; take great pleasure in: to love music. 18. to need or require; benefit greatly from: Plants love sunlight. 19. to embrace and kiss (someone), as a lover. 20. to have sexual intercourse with. Do you think Flack's feelings for Danny fit any (or all) of those definitions? If so, why and which ones? If not, why? And a little more food for thought...if Danny were a woman, do you think we would be more likely to interpret Flack's feelings for him as romantic? Do you think it would change your perception of Flack's feelings for Danny?
I voted Yes and Yes. I think Flack loves Danny as a friend, and though I think it's possible to see something romantic between them (and I admit, I do, especially on Flack's part), I think the intention of the writers is not that Flack's in love with Danny. However, I think if Danny was a female character, people would naturally assume Flack was in love with 'her.' Danny is something of a male damsel in distress, and Flack is always rescuing him. Because he's a guy and because society still predominantly thinks of romance as happening between a man and a woman, we read Flack's feelings as "deep friendship." I do hope people will really think about that question though and think over the instances mentioned above (and the other moments between them) and think about whether their read on the situation would be different if Danny wasn't the same gender as Flack.
I voted yes, for the first and No (the 1st no) for the second, just 'cause I'm a slasher. I definitely think that if Danny were Danielle, D/F would be the hottest ship on the show, and people would be groping for canon proof that they're gonna hook up. But things being what they are, I doubt one of prime time televisions top dramas is going to be making a homosexual couple of two main characters anytime soon. Especially being that they're cops. Makes me think of that Eric and Calleigh quote from 'Stalkerazzi' : "It's cool to be whoever you are but a gay action hero is kinda tough." "You really think the audience cares?" "If he's redecorating your apartment, maybe not so much, but saving the world..." Sad, but true. While TPTB used to completely ignore this demographic, they have however gotten really good at appealing to those who would like to see such a thing represented on screen by throwing us just enough to live on, without actually having to commit to a side on that political fence.
I definetly think that if Danny was Danielle as roximonoxide said then Flack's unwavering loyalty and devotion would not be perceived as just a friendship it would have brooded on romance. Using myself as an example my best friend is a guy and people always assume we are a couple or are romantically involved. We always joke that if he was a girl or I was guy we wouldn't have this problem :lol: Back to Flack I do think he loves Danny his proved it so many times when Danny drama queen is in trouble his the only person who can handle that side of Danny or talk some sense into him.
I love you, Top41. :lol: :lol: :lol: And yes, I certainly think Flack loves Danny. The wonderful thing is, regardless of whether there are sexual aspects or not, there's something special about their relationship. (Yeah, relationship, straight from the mouth of the man who plays Flack. ) I second the opinion that if Danny switched genders and became a woman, the reactions to Flack's behavior towards Danny would be much more different. I guess it just goes to show how far we have to go before the mere thought of, in this case, two men loving each other is accepted by the public at large.
It does seem a little quieter in here than usual. And I'm sure that Fay will love this! :lol: Yes, he definitely loves him. And yeah, I wouldn't say lust, although the looks that he gives him sometimes make me wonder... But never mind those looks or the shipper in me, because there is so much more in their relationship that just seems to make it obvious to me that Flack loves him! Flack has consistently shown that he will do anything for Danny, will always be there for him, will be the voice of reason, will put up with behaviour from Danny that in some more stereotypical male relationships (if two people weren't quite that close) would undoubtedly lead to Danny getting a good smack down. By the simple definitions of what love is, Flack simply is in love. I'm not sure that Danny feels the same way about their relationship, if he does then he certainly doesn't show it in the same way. Oh yes. Every look, action and comment would be interpreted completely differently. And they would be seriously hot together, if they ever got together. Flack is giving every thing in this relationship, Danny rarely seems to reciprocate. It would be interesting because as a woman, would we see him as a tease, needy, ungrateful, demanding and giving nothing back? Not usually seen as favourable characteristics for a female. Would Flack then be seen as weak and 'deserving better'? I don't know, but it would be very interesting...
I agree. Flack rushing all over town looking for Danny or meeting him out somewhere to offer emotional support would look like a lovesick guy doing anything he could to be there for the girl he likes if Danny were Danielle. Yep, exactly. Mainstream television isn't ready for a gay action hero according to the networks (though, hello, look at Torchwood over in the UK--there's a beacon of hope on the horizon!), but I'd argue that Danny and Flack's friendship is the most fully fleshed out relationship between two characters on the show. I've had friendships like that, too. Why was the banter between Danny and Lindsay immediately assumed by most to be sexually-charged, while the majority probably wouldn't see the banter between Danny and Flack as such, even though Flack teases Danny as much if not more than Lindsay? Sadly, it seems that we've got a lot further to go (though Torchwood really does give me hope!). You know, put that way...it kind of sounds like Danny and Lindsay, with Flack as Danny and Danny as Lindsay. Which brings up another interesting point...are we harder on Lindsay in the Danny/Lindsay pairing than we are on Danny in the Danny/Flack friendship because Danny and Lindsay are romantically involved, or is it because Lindsay is a woman? Are we harder on women who act selfishly and are needy and ungrateful than we are on men? Is it easier to forgive Danny for being selfish with Flack because they aren't together romantically? And if we know Danny put up with a lot from Lindsay because he had feelings for her, how do we explain why Flack puts up with so much from Lindsay?
I too voted Yes and Yes. Without any romantic connotations at all, it is pretty clear, based on what we've seen on the show, that Flack is deeply loyal and devoted to Danny. He was under no obligation to place his own job at risk to help his friend, but he moved heaven and earth to ensure that, not only would Danny not get into trouble, but that Rikki would be well looked after for Danny's sake. If he hadn't intervened, then things probably would have ended badly for both Danny and Rikki. Friends like that are rare and priceless. I definitely agree that, if Danny were a female character, then Flack/Danny would be the couple on the show. Maybe not reflected on the show itself, but in the hearts of the fans most certainly. No question.
I voted yes for the first question and the first no for the second question. Yes, I think Flack is in love with Danny. There is no doubt in my mind that Flack is in love with Danny (slashy or just friendship). He's way too obvious. He goes above and beyond for Danny. No, I already think Flack has romantic feelings for Danny. I agree with everyone else who says if Danny were Danielle, then Flack/Danielle would be the hottest couple on tv. It's a shame the network wouldn't go for two hot detectives in a romantic relationship but at the same time, I'm glad they won't go for it. They'd just ruin Danny/Flack. Ships going canon (with the exception of friendships), don't seem to work out too well.
:lol: I love it, dahling. I voted yes for the first question--not even bringing slash into the picture, Flack loves Danny. Whether as a friend or as family, there's love there. You don't go that far out of your way for someone you don't care about--and Flack definitely goes out of his way. I'm sure a lot of people shrink away from the idea of saying that two guys 'love' each other, but we need to get over that. Love comes in many forms, and the way Flack cares for Danny should be embraced, not shied away from because it might be seen as 'gay'. *le sigh* For the second question, I was going between yes and the first no--I don't think that's what the writers are going for, as Top said, but at the same time, I think if Danny were a woman, it would still be viewed as romantic chemistry and subtext. I don't know if I can really compare Danny and Lindsay that way. Danny's a person while Lindsay is still a cardboard cut-out. I see Danny's behavior as awkward (because he's not sure he deserves Flack's attention, sometimes he's not sure how to respond, etc), as well as oblivious in a way (maybe sometimes he reacts negatively to Flack's behavior because he sees it as 'I don't think you can handle it' rather than 'I want to help you' [this past episode, for example], etc)--I don't get the same type of 'selfish' feelings when it comes to Danny and Lindsay. They're just so very different... I don't think I'm making sense. It's time for Fay to go sleepy-time. :lol:
I yes and no. I think Flack already loves Danny (slash/non-slash). I also agree that his behaviour towards Danny would be interpreted differently by (i'm putting myself out here) ALL viewers if Danny were a Danielle, forget someone flying across the country for a court case, that's nothing compared to what Flack does for Danny! And what Danny allows (and possibly expects) Flack to do for him - you may feel the "allows" is a funny turn of phrase but Danny could just shut Don out, but he never does. His bratty "mind your own business" comment to Flack will be forgiven (we know that we all say things when we are upset often to the people that we love who don't deserve it) as is their relationship, Flack doesn't expect anything from Danny in return, possibly because he knows that within that particular relationship the other person isn't emotionally capable of doing so (unless TPTB want a nice little romance ). I also think Flack loves Stella not in a ship though(I am a D/F girl!!), but it's his feeling's for Danny that over ride his judgement.
Firstly....i do love this thread already. The Danny/Flack friendship seems to be the deepest and most developed one on the show, and i love watching the two of them interact, not to mention the chemistry the two actors have with each other. I do think without a doubt that Flack loves Danny and that Danny loves Flack. The two of them are close, and Flack obviously risks his job several times to ensure that Danny is protected and taken care of. This doesn't mean that they are "in love", although if the writers ever chose to go that way, it would certainly be believable to me. They seem to genuinely care about each other like two best friends or brothers would, and I love seeing that. As for romantic love, I don't know about that. The two of them definately have enough chemistry with each other, so if the writers ever did think to go that way it would certainly be believable and fine with me. However, i do like to think of them more as brothers and best friends...not to say i wouldn't support their pairing up if they ever did, but it just seems to me that they are a perfect duo the way they are, and that romance doesn't need to play a part in showing us how much they love each other. Either way though, their friendship is one of the strongest on tv right now (IMO), and which ever way the writers go with it, whether it be keeping them friends or possibly as a couple in the future (you never know), it would work out well either way.
Well I chose Yes and No (the second) We all know that they probably have known each other for a long time (see Blink quotes) and they love ach other like Brother and if Danny was female while can't they have a Brother/Sister relationship with you sometimes see between Danny/Stella I mean, one or two male friends who I have known for a very long time and treat them like brothers!
Flack definitely loves Danny. What we see Flack do and say toward Danny on the show (without adding any opinion of implied subtext) is what I'd call a familial love. I think that cops, firefighters, etc., naturally share a deep bond because they rely on each other in life and death situations on a daily basis. We've all heard of people in those lines of work refer to "the brotherhood" (which is sexist, but that's another discussion) and the way Flack behaves around Danny is a crystal clear example of that. I also think that Flack is in love with Danny, and that if Danny were "Danielle" there'd be no doubt they'd be the most popular ship on the show. As others have said, CBS will never go there because the American public isn't ready for it. We will accept gay characters in sitcoms, because it's easy to accept when we are allowed to laugh at the characters. But portraying a real homosexual relationship where the two people are very much like the average couple still threatens many people. It's a sad commentary on our society, but it's true. You bring up another good question about Lindsay, Top. I think American women in general are very hard on each other. Bitchy and judgmental, even. I can certainly see how people would be too hard on Lindsay because she's with Danny, who many see as attractive and sexy. A lot of American women, even if we don't want to admit it, are driven in their relationships (consciously or subconsciously) by a certain degree of jealousy of other women. That's something society has pounded into our heads since we took our first breath outside of the womb. It's another sad commentary on our society. I don't see that as being a motivator for the dislike of Lindsay, however. Many people who dislike Lindsay have commented positively on Danny's chemistry with other women (Angell, the dominatrix, subway girl, etc.) What it boils down to for me is Lindsay has been developed half-assed from day one. The actress's performance of Lindsay has been half-assed from day one. It's impossible for me understand or like a character when I can't determine what her personality is or what motivates her actions and words. If that was communicated better, my feelings for her would possibly be very different. ETA: I also think Lindsay not having definiing characteristics or a portrayal that gives clear insight into motivation for actions and words makes some fans love her. I think having a non-descript character attached to the show's attractive, sexy guy makes it easy for some fans of that guy to interpret her any way they want. It's definitely a "Mary Sue" situation with Lindsay, where some fans can create their "ideal" relationship with one of the show's hot men. It looks like the majority who've voted so far have voted that Flack does not have romantic feelings for Danny and that wouldn't change if he was "Danielle." I'd love to hear some more of those people explain why they chose that answer. Come on people, speak up and be heard.
Very interesting points, everyone. And the results of the poll are interesting, too--most people seem to think Flack does love Danny by one of the definitions of what love is. And 11 people (so far)--close to a third--voted yes for the second question. I really do think it's interesting to look at Flack's behavior towards Danny and think about how we'd interpret it if Danny was a woman. Had to welcome my Fay back in style! Agreed. I think the brotherly love aspect that people have brought up is definitely a valid interpretation. And I think it's easier to look at say, Mac and Stella and say they love each other in a platonic way than maybe it is for some to look at Danny and Flack and say the same thing. I can't help but think that as well. I mean, look at Flack and Angell--a few lines of flirty banter, a look or two exchanged and a coffee date set. Almost everyone seems to interpret that romantically. Flack and Danny have had coffee and drinks together on multiple occasions, Danny turns to Flack for comfort and emotional solace, Flack goes out of his way to be there for Danny--I think, if Danny was a woman, there'd be lots of discussion about Flack having romantic feelings for 'her.' I think there are definitely lots of differences between Danny and Lindsay's behavior--Danny's never manipulated Flack like Lindsay did to him in "Oedipus Hex" for example--but I do think it's fair to say there are some similarities, and that Danny relies on Flack--and has throughout the run of the show--much in the way Lindsay relied on him in season three. To be fair, Flack has done a lot more for Danny than Danny has for Lindsay. That's how I feel as well. There'd be a lot of discussion on why Flack does what he does for Danny if Danny was a woman. And maybe that's a failing on our part, too--why does someone going out of his or her way for someone on the opposite gender have to be romantic? Maybe that person is just really generous. But I think after seeing it happen again and again makes one think, "Hmmmm, maybe there's something there." Danny does let Flack do a lot for him, and he has no problems calling on Flack when he needs him. I do think if Danny was a woman, we'd also be accusing him of taking advantage of Flack's feelings for him, much in the way Lindsay got accused of the same thing with Danny last season. I agree with this, too--the way Flack behaved with Stella in "All Access" proved how much he cared about her. Flack knows how to read people, and I think he's much more gentle with Danny than he was with Stella, because he knows Stella would have resented it and would have felt she was being condescended to. But yes, on the second point, Flack would have called in Rikki if he'd had his way, but care for Danny was what made him not do it, or haul Rikki in after she aimed the gun at Ollie. I'd argue those are acts of love. I actually saw something romantic between Danny and Stella back in the beginning of the show, but I know what you're saying. I kind of think Flack and Stella have a brother-sister relationship. Same with Mac and Stella (in my eyes). Still, just looking at all Flack's done for Danny...if Danny was a pretty, brown-haired girl as opposed to a pretty, brown-haired boy, I think there'd be a different read on Flack's behavior from many. Agreed, definitely. Agreed, and I think it would have been a very daring storyline indeed if the writers had gone with Flack being in love with Danny even if the feelings weren't mutual. I think jealousy is part of it, but women do just tend to be harder on and more judgmental of other women. To be totally fair, there are parallels between Danny and Lindsay's behavior. Danny does think of other people while Lindsay always seems to be coddling her own feelings but still, Danny leans on Flack more than Lindsay has ever leaned on him, and from what we've seen, gives little back in return. No, I agree it's not the reason most dislike her, but some--myself included--have been hard on her for treatment of Danny. Danny definitely relies on Flack always being there for him, and I think if Danny was a woman, we'd be harder on him. Why is it always Flack going out of his way for Danny and never the reverse? If Danny was a woman, we'd hear more about that I think. Why is the behavior okay with Danny being that way to Flack but not Lindsay to Danny? I think I'd go so far as to say both Danny and Lindsay have taken advantage of the feelings that others have for them.