Grade 'Child's Play'

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Top41, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

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    Danny pushes people away? Danny??? The guy who wears his heart on his sleeve and cries in front of other guys? Danny definitely does not push people away. :lol:

    Word to everything you said, Kimmy. I think Danny was in shock in this episode, and feeling all kinds of guilty and didn't think he deserved solace from anyone. He did turn to Mac right after he saw Ruben. It was only Lindsay he blew off, maybe because he knows she's "not good at this kind of thing."

    I do think it's interesting that Lindsay didn't chase after Danny or even seem all that concerned about him--this is a guy who flew all the way to Montana for her, and she can't even try seeking him out in the lab again? I kinda wonder how much Lindsay actually cares about Danny, or if she's just in it for the emotional support he gives her, and for the sex because Danny really is a hot piece of ass. But when you love someone you work to overcome your inadequacies to be a good partner...and well, Lindsay doesn't ever put anyone but Lindsay first. As cold a fish as Mac is, at least he tries.
     
  2. Kimmychu

    Kimmychu Coroner

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    Okay, I finally saw the episode and angst-wise, it sure met my expectations. :lol: Yes, Carmine was fantastic and delivered his best like he always does.

    I'll just say a few more things:

    * I knew most of what was going to happen in the episode, particularly the Danny/Ruben scenes, so I was prepared for the worst. Yeah, Danny could have been more strict in keeping Ruben close to him and he did answer his mobile phone just before Ruben rode off on his own, but there was no way Danny could possibly have known a gun was about to be fired or that the bullet would kill Ruben.

    To his credit, he ended the call as quickly as possible and also yelled out to Ruben to not go around the corner and stop there so he was still in plain sight. There's also the following notion I haven't seen mentioned yet: the dialogue between Danny and Ruben as they were headed back to their apartment building was a subtle set-up. The way Danny said, "So this is what it's all 'bout?" to Ruben showed he knew how much Ruben had been yearning to ride his bike on his own. Danny might have allowed Ruben to ride ahead for just a moment to let Ruben enjoy that. They just blessed the bike at the church, Danny the experienced cop was there to watch Ruben, so how bad could it be for Ruben to just ride on his own to the end of the sidewalk so close, right?

    Poor Danny. All the circumstances were against him that morning. It wasn't his fault Ruben was an excited boy riding his bike on his own for the first time who just wanted to ride on his own for a little more. It wasn't his fault either that Ruben would ride straight into a robbery and get fatally shot. I am a little ambivalent on Danny telling Ruben to ride away after hearing the shot, but if I had been in his shoes and saw Ruben still on his bike, giving me a glance backwards, looking outwardly just fine, I would probably have told Ruben to ride away as fast as he can too.

    It would be easy to say that Danny should have run up to Ruben and check on him, but Danny saw the perp with a gun in hand run away from the scene. What happens if there was still another armed person in the vicinity? What if he/she shoots their weapon within the time Danny runs up to Ruben who's stopped where he is to wait for Danny to reach him? What if Ruben gets shot then? What if, what if, what if. So many factors to assess and so many factors that can change in milliseconds, factors out of Danny's control. So seeing it this way, I do not blame Danny for Ruben's death, not entirely.

    Man, sometimes Danny is just one of the unluckiest guys around who needs a break. :eek:

    * Having said the above, I thought it was very odd that Danny would not call Ruben's mom Rikki as soon as possible to check on whether Ruben arrived home safely or not. I understand that the writers had to leave that out in order for the morgue scene to have maximum impact but ... it's just odd.

    * The fact that Danny was pouring his heart out to Mac made Danny brushing off Lindsay seconds later even more significant. It was direct proof that Danny does not push people away in his worst times. Well, except for Lindsay. :p I'm sure future episodes will shed more light on why Danny did so. And the irony of ironies, Lindsay seems to have more chemistry with Mac than she does with Danny. Oh, and getting advice on how to connect to people from Mac? Hilarious. :lol: I think that scene wasn't about Danny/Lindsay at all, but about how Mac and Lindsay are both inept at dealing with emotions. (The amusing thing to me is that Mac is clearly stoic and has always stayed in character throughout the show but Lindsay ... yeah, you fill in the blanks.)

    * Like some people mentioned, it really was bizarre to see Lindsay joking around and chuckling after knowing Danny's predicament. I can't tell if this is bad editing/writing or whether this is deliberate. If it is deliberate, it's very telling about Lindsay's character that she's capable of disconnecting herself from Danny's situation and grief so easily. (Of course, this is if they're even in a relationship to begin with.) I can comprehend Flack and Stella being in a jesting mood since they're not working the same case as Danny and most likely don't know what's happened. (If I'm right, Stella once told Mac that she regretted not being there for Danny during On the Job because she was so caught up in her case. Can anyone confirm this with me?) After watching the episode, I'm still wondering why Lindsay didn't tell Flack and Stella about Danny. (Yes, I know, it's probably for the sake of levity to balance out the angst, but since TPTB have played it that way on the show, it's canon and up for debate.)

    * Heh, seems like this is a lone opinion: I thought the dialogue between Flack and Lindsay about the Laughing Larry memories was overdone and forced, even on Flack's part. It was as if they were trying too hard to relate to each other and look friendly on screen. It would have been more believable if they hadn't go on and on about all the toys and how disappointed they were. By the end of that scene, I was pretty much like Stella when she said the, "That was then and this is now," bit. :lol:

    * Sid was so darn cute with his hair all ruffled up. :lol: Hawkes was hardly there. :( And Adam! Only he could make such a piece of clothing look cute. :lol: He was great in the scene with Sid too. They played off each other well.

    * And lastly, I'm kinda glad TPTB went the route of having Rikki feeling that Danny is partly to be blamed for her son's death. In the spoilers, she and Danny were supposed to hold hands in the final church scene, which would actually negate much of any future angst for Danny and give the storyline a sense of finality. But since it's otherwise, TPTB will be extremely foolish in discarding continuity for this Ruben story plot. Danny and angst made for a superb combination for more great acting and great storylines!

    (Bloody hell, my post is an essay. :lol:)
     
  3. audrina

    audrina Police Officer

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    Want to add that while I'm undecided as to whether Danny should have just told Ruben to hurry home or not, I believe Ruben was actually shot before that. I think it was the shot that prompted Danny to tell Ruben to get home, and by that time the damage was already done.
     
  4. carolina

    carolina Lab Technician

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    it was a very emotional episode

    I really enjoyed the Laughing Larry story line. the banter between Flack and Lindsay was great. and Stel and Linds worked together really well, they complement each other nicely as investigators just as much as characters.

    and the action scene was just WOW. they even dressed up for the occasion. Flack chasing the perp over the roof - hotness pure. and the ending was strong and unexpected

    as for the other case, I have mixed feelings about it. maybe it was too much or not enough but the only part I really liked about it was Carmines acting

    the second best scene right after the action scene was the Sid/Adam scene
    it was unusual episode but definitely one of the Top ones

    ETA

    while watching the scene what I was thinking was that Lindsay knows what he is going through (S3 anyone?) and she also knows that nothing she will say or do will make it better or easier. and Danny just did what she did in S3 pushing the person he felt closest the furthest away. but that may be just me
     
  5. i_heart_togo

    i_heart_togo Dead on Arrival

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    A+ loved everything about it felt really bad for Danny it was a change for him because we don't see him like he was. So glad that they did shove D/L on us, Flack he was so funny. Loved the fireworks part the best on this case and the other one about Ruben made me cry. Overall a really great episode.
     
  6. Dawni

    Dawni CSI Level One

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    Now i've managed to watch it properly and when i'm more awake can say more.

    Loved both cases, I did wish the Ruben case was the A case though it would have worked better but having the Larry case I think also worked because it was the opposite.

    Flack was priceless. And action flack was even better. it was a classic look her gave larry when he wet his tie.

    The larry case was cool it was a clever idea and the end scene of the guy who did it was cleverly done.

    I loved the chat between flack/lindsay to as they walked to the shop it was nice to see him them interacting even tho the scene was wrongly placed it was a nice one to watch. I wanted to think that they were just getting on with the job in hand the case meant taking it a little light hearted but i think would have worked better placed somewhere else. I don't really think it said much about Lindsay in fact she was all happy, with there job you have to focus on whats in hand.

    Carmine was amazing the whole case was clever and i hope they do keep the continuity going for this one it could be well done if done right.

    ^^ i agree with you natty on how he's dealing with it, some people do feel better shutting themselves off, and pushing away those who want to help.

    I did enjoy the mac/lindsay scene i thought it was nice because they are both awkward at it, and maybe his advice wasn't perfect but it was good advice thinking about it and not really self centred on lindsays behalf. I was happy they didnt follow the scene tho it worked better just talking about it.

    the end scene was perfect it just shows how they are both coping and she isnt ready just yet to talk.

    Loved the whole episode tho just hope they keep the continuity going.
     
  7. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    The more I think about this episode, the more one thing really bothers me. I don't think it's been discussed, but if it has, my apologies.

    I said that I liked that Mac brought Lucy to the morgue to show her the consequences of her actions. I stand by that, but shouldn't we have also seen her get arrested? Maybe Mrs. G or someone else who knows much more about the legal system could answer this. I would assume she'd be charged with something. The perp never fired his gun, so I wouldn't think she could claim self defense. She fired recklessly and she caused the death of a 10 year old. The debate about Danny's responsibility makes me really upset that we didn't see Lucy suffer any consequences to her actions, other than the obvious guilt and regret. The way the story ended with her crying with anguish and guilt made Lucy look extremely sympathetic, and I think it would have been more satisfying as a viewer to also show there were serious legal consequences to her actions. You know, that Ruben got some form of justice, even though it can't bring him back.
     
  8. flackfan_82

    flackfan_82 Witness

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    i just had a thought...i think the whole 'laughing larry' scene with flack and lindsay yuckin it up was a case of unfortunate editing. There's a lot of doggin on Lindsay for not showing any emotion after finding out about Danny's situation - didn't Lindsay say in autopsy (think Sid with the itching powder, lol) when Stella asked if they had a current address for Larry, that Flack was meeting them there after autopsy? Maybe that scene was meant to carry on after the autopsy scene? so then theoretically, Lindsay wouldn' t have heard about Ruben's death... just a thought...

    I do agree that Lindsay is a bit emotionally stunted, and that she has always had more chemistry with Mac than Danny...it made sense to me that she went to him for advice - i think his advice she'd actually listen to, whereas if she had asked Stella or Flack, who would have said to just be there for him, she might not have done it...
     
  9. Joaninha

    Joaninha Witness

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    A+
    Oh my god, I just saw the episode... it's really great.
    Carmine was awsome. I just loved the beginning when he talked to Ruben. He looked so sweet, he smiled... poor Danny :(... it was easy to see that he really liked this little boy.
    The scenes between Danny and Rikki in the hallway and in the Church were really heartbreaking : both Carmine and the actress that played Ruben's mom were amazing.
    I loved Danny's reactions throughout this episode, he didn't cry... he was so shocked. Without saying anything he has shown lots of emotions: earnestness, guilt, sorrow, regret.
    Poor Danny he had to face it all alone. :( What's wrong with Lindsay ? Isn't she suppose to be in a deep relationship with him ?? I know that's not easy to comfort people but... still... just one hug would have been great... (if there's nobody to do this I can hug him ;) ).
    Carmine did a wonderful job in this episode but I had no doubts about his acting skills ;)!

    About Danny's responsability... I think he did what he thought was the right thing to do since he saw Ruben and he looked safe. He just wanted him to run away from this place. He didn't know that he was already hurt. I don't think he could have done anything for Ruben since we saw in a flashback that he fell right after he left the bodega and probably died quickly. It would have been even worse for Danny if Ruben died in his arms.
    About Danny's behaviour... we have to mention that he slept for a couple of hours... we can suppose that he was tired and his reactions probably different. Well... that's just a thought...

    The other case was interesting too and funny (thanks Flack ;) )... except the end... so sad... another dead kid :(.

    Oh... and I also loved Sid and Adam interaction... we should see this more often, they're great together.
    Sid and the itching powder -> that was a funny scene ! :D


    (congratulations to me... this is the first time I grade an episode! I hope that wasn't too bad :D)
     
  10. MakeTracksCowboy

    MakeTracksCowboy CSI Level One

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    i give "Child's Play" an A-. this was one of the better eps of the season soo far but there were a few things that kinda made me a bit nuts. everyone had great scenes and great lines.

    i can see where some of you non Lindsay fans are coming from where her scene with Mac and her conversation with Flack made her seem insensitive. i like Lindsay a lot but i can see how some may think of her that way. it did seem a little weird for her to say "i'm not good at this sort of thing" have a bit of a focus on her. but i look at it this way... maybe she said that b/c she knows she wouldn't be able to really be there for Danny the way he needed someone to be there for him. also maybe the funny lines with Flack was a sort of way for her to forget what she saw earlier that day, we'll never know and i'm sure if it was up to us there would have been a "are you ok?" or a sympathy scene b/t D/L. i wasn't mad that there wasn't a D/L scene emotionally Danny and Lindsay are a wreck with certain things so i understand them not having a scene with a situation like this.

    Danny/Carmine was fantastic. every one of his scenes from start to finish was the best. the hallway scene with Ruben's mother was amazing, possibly one of the best of the franchise, the way the camera moved down and widened made the scene even more heartbreaking. seeing Danny loose his cool a bit and almost touch Ruben in the morgue was sad b/c he doesn't really loose it that easily over things but he knew the kid and felt responsible. it's an ep like this that is perfect b/c it just shows that Carmine can play a whole range of emotions and do them flawlessly.

    Flack and Lindsay talking about their childhood experiences about Laughing Larry was soo funny. i can see Flack pulling pranks and buying stuff like he did but with Lindsay it kinda suprises me but at the same time it doesn't. i can totally see her buying crap from that place. her "hovercrap" line got me really laughing.

    my only complaints: the slo-mo run out of the warehouse: so corny and so overused in so many things NY doesn't need to be any cheesier. WTF is up with people seeking revenge 20-30 years after someone they know died? seriously writers get yourselves together!!!

    i like the eps that Pam Veasey writes. she's the showrunner and knows the characters better than anyone so when she writes an ep we always get good character moments from the whole cast. i wish PV could just write an entire season then maybe this season wouldn't be in a sort of slump it's been in.
     
  11. DakotaCal

    DakotaCal Victim

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    A lot of great reviews of this episode, so I don't know how much I can add. I loved this episode, and thought it flowed (mostly) pretty well.

    The Laughing Larry case (was it really the A case?) was enjoyable. I thought the actor who played Larry was incredible. The second time I watched the ep, I really noticed how natural all his reactions were and how expressive his face was. The last scene with Larry as he wistfully remembered the submarine, but then his face turned to sadness as he realized what happened - briliant. The exploding warehouse scene didn't feel quite right to me, but it was really cool to watch Flack chasing the perp. Flack is so cool. I'm not the biggest Lindsay fan, but I thought her banter with Flack really suited her. I agree the scene seemed misplaced. As it was mentioned, maybe it should have come right after the autopsy scene with Sid. Also, I didn't pay attention to clothing, but if it really was in chronological order, then it would have been the next day, and I could easily see them taking a moment to banter if they heard the news about Reuben the day before.

    Danny's case was wonderful. Like everyone, I thought Carmine did a great job. However, I found myself oddly unmoved by the hallway scene where he told the mother. It was shot well, but something took me out of the moment. Not sure if it was the actress, or what. Everything else she did was good, so I have no idea.

    Also, I loved the Mac and Lindsay scene. Maybe I'm really selfish, because I don't see Lindsay's comment as being all about her. I think she was wanting to do the best thing for Danny, but not sure how. Mac seems to be the kind of man who's a great listener, and really was what Danny needed at that time. There's nothing anyone could say to help Danny. I also loved how Mac took an active role in the case. Mac doesn't seem to do much lab work anymore since he's got an office to run. So by being more active in the case, that's his way of showing concern. Same with Stella in All Access. He didn't sit in the hospital with her, but someone had to process her apartment, and you know she'd rather have Mac do it than anyone else since it was so personal. To me that was the best way he could help her.

    Ugh - first review and it's way long. Sorry. ;)
     
  12. mulder8scullly5

    mulder8scullly5 Prime Suspect

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    Another great episode from this amazing season. Poor Danny...I really did not expect anything like this to happen. I really thought Ruben would be OK. It was indeed very emotional! Amazing!

    Nice to know something about Flack and Lindsay! Laughing Larry huh? And I really find it funny how Stella reacted to their rants and raves. Funny!

    I give it an A!
     
  13. hyburn8

    hyburn8 Hit and Run

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    Did I just miss it--when did they actually FIND the gun Lucy used? I saw the part when Hawkes saw the void from the gun under the counter at the bodega but when did they find the actual gun? The guy who robbed the bodega had a gun that did not match the bullet from Ruben.

    Just wondering how I missed that? Anyone?...
     
  14. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

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    A few thoughts...

    Maybe I'm more forgiving of Lucy because I think when you're attacked, your first instinct is to fight back. Yes, she hit Ruben and of course that was wrong, but she was aiming for the robber who had just beat up her brother. I get where she's coming from. The fact that she felt remorse showed she wasn't a callous or horrible person. That being said, she shouldn't have lied about who fired the shots, and I'd be curious about her legal liability.

    I know D/L is supposed to be canon, but I don't think Lindsay is the person Danny is closest to by a long shot. I think he's been there for her, but we've never seen any reciprocity on her part. The two people Danny confides in are Flack and Mac.

    I think Mac's a good listener, but he's pretty bad at comforting people, which is why I think he got where Lindsay was coming from. He didn't say much that comforted Danny, and he was pretty absent when Stella could have used a friend in "All Access." I don't think Mac's an ass so much as that he's kind of a cold fish and doesn't know how to relate to people. But he definitely tries harder than Lindsay does. ;)

    I don't think Danny was responsible for Ruben being shot--that was an accident. Sending the boy home on his own, however, was stupid and reprehensible.
     
  15. LateToTheGame

    LateToTheGame Hit and Run

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    You know, reading all these reviews make me wish I had taped this one. I was thinking the same thing, but wasn't quite sure if I remembered it properly. Flack wasn't in the building then, when Rueben's body was brought in, and likely never heard what happened. But Stella probably still was. Wasn't one of the first things Lindsay said something like "I just heard"? It seems unlikely that she would hear about it and Stella wouldn't. Yet Stella was as unconcerned in the scene as the others. This, along with the light when they entered, dark when they exited thing makes me lean towards the "bad editing" idea. Or perhaps the scenes were written separately and there were no writers around to fix it, to make the scenes flow into each other better. Weren't the writers on strike by the time they were filming this?

    The other thing that makes me wish I'd taped it - people keep saying that Lindsay "went" to Mac for advice. I thought he just happened to be there and I assume she would have asked the same thing if Stella or Hawkes had been right there instead.

    But I was a bit tired that night, and now I don't quite remember. And I've weirdly turned into some kind of Lindsay defender. I really don't dislike the character, but I'm not really that fond of her either. She's mainly just kind of "meh" to me. So, before I'm dropped from any club ;) let me just add that I usually don't feel the need to defend her, but for some reason in this episode I don't see the issues being raised as being the character's "fault". Maybe because I identify with feeling awkward when trying to comfort someone, or maybe because the laughing afterward just makes no sense, I'm not sure.

    So, since I'm in this strange "defending Lindsay" mode, I will continue by saying that I assumed (and this also may be an editing thing, or my faulty memory) that had Lindsay gone searching for Danny after he left the morgue (and there is nothing to indicate whether she did or didn't), she wouldn't have found him, because he went to break the news to the mother. When he returned to the lab, she was out, on her case. At least, that's the way I remember it.

    And finally, I just have to say again "ick, ick, ick" about the eyeball thing. Shudder!
     

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