Was Danny Responsible? *Child's Play Spoilers*

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Top41, Dec 13, 2007.

  1. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    Hey, look at the times of the posts! It was a tie! :lol: :lol:
     
  2. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

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    Really interesting discussion, guys! I'm enjoying reading everyone's responses--I had a feeling there would be some debate on this, and I think everyone makes really interesting points.

    I voted yes. I agree that it was stupid of Danny to let himself get distracted by the cell phone call. He should have waited on answering that. But he did get off the phone once he saw Ruben getting too far ahead of him, so he did do the right thing there. I guess I'm still floored that he told the kid to go home alone.

    Actually, I think this is where Danny is probably really kicking himself. If he'd been with Ruben, he would have seen when the kid slowed down and started to pass out. Danny could have called 911 or got him to a hospital right away, and Ruben might have been saved. But Ruben was alone.


    Actually, I'm more forgiving of her than Danny. She shouldn't have lied about firing the gun (though plot-wise she had to so that the case wouldn't be wrapped up right away), but she was firing at someone who had a gun and had just beat up her brother. Granted, she was firing at him while he was fleeing, so that was a mistake, but I definitely think that was somewhat instinctual.

    I was kind of wondering about the legality of the situation. Wouldn't he be wide open for a civil suit from Ruben's mother? I doubt the show will go that way, but I know if I was that mother, I'd be pissed as hell at the little shit who let my kid out of his sight when he was supposed to be taking care of him. From what Ruben said, his mom didn't even let him ride his bike alone. Why on earth would Danny, just having heard that, turn around and let him do just that in a dangerous situation?


    Agreed. Whatever his responsibility was at the bodega, his first responsibility was to Ruben.

    I know! He didn't even pursue the guy. Interestingly, the situation was very similar to "On the Job" when the perp ran into the subway. I wonder if that's what made Danny hesitate. Another dumb move, though once he saw the bodega owner wasn't fatally wounded, getting the robber was probably less of a priority for him. There's a big difference between robbery and murder.

    Ditto.
     
  3. rhythmbutterfly

    rhythmbutterfly Victim

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    I thought about this for a while, and here's what I came up with.

    Yes, Danny showed questionable judgement for taking the phone call, letting Ruben ride the bike when Ruben said his mom wouldn't let him, etc. But I think those of you who are condemning him for that are forgetting something. Yes, Danny is a New York City police officer. Yes, that means he must be more trustworthy than the average human being. And that's probably one reason that Ruben's mother let Ruben roam the streets of New York with Danny while she stayed home (more on that later). True, we know that Danny LOVES kids. That's been made plainly obvious. He has a special sympathy for kids who have been hurt, and a special hatred for those who hurt them. But folks, Danny is NOT a parent. At times, he's barely an adult. He doesn't have kids, and not everyone is born with the instincts that come with parenthood. I speak from experience. My sister and brother-in-law have blessed me with a wonderful niece and a fantastic nephew. I would cheerfully give my life for either of them should the opportunity arise. But my sister has had to remind me about certain things where they are concerned, like the fact that it's not okay for them to ride with me in my car without their booster seats, even if we're just backing out of the driveway. I didn't think it was that big of a deal, but it is. I just don't have that instinct. If I were in Danny's situation, I would have answered the phone. I would have let him ride his bike. I would have regretted it, but I would have done it. Danny even has an excuse that I can't claim. I have the two most wonderful, loving, caring parents ever to be put on this earth. So one would think that their instincts would rub off on me. Most people on this board believe that Danny's parents were at best, absentees, and at worst, mobsters. So where would Danny have picked up the instinct to keep Ruben closer to him? From his gang-member older brother? If Louie is his only sibling, then Danny is the youngest child in his family. He's never had to take care of anyone like that. He can't be blamed for what he doesn't know. Just my opinion.

    By the way, how much blame should Ruben's mother get? Why didn't she go with them to church? I'm sure Ruben asked Danny to go, and maybe he wanted it to be only Danny. But trusting your child with a neighbor on the streets of New York City? Where was her judgement?
     
  4. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    Please. Give me a break. Ruben's mother has absolutely NO blame in this. When Danny came back and knocked on her door, she called him "Messer," which along with Ruben's affection for Danny, to me says she and Ruben and Danny obviously knew each other quite well. They were neighbors and had enough history where she trusted Danny and knows he's a cop. To say she had bad judgement says that no parent should ever let their kid go anywhere with anyone who isn't their parent. That's extreme, to say the least.

    ETA: I'm not a parent and I don't want to be one. I do have nine nieces and nephews that I am with at times without their parent(s). If I had put one of them in a car without a car seat, drove and they were injured, it would be my fault. Period. If my siblings knew I didn't realize putting kids in the car seat every time was required and they still left me alone with them, then yes, they'd be at fault as well. The episode gave no indication that Ruben's mother thought Danny would not look out for her kid. Yes, Danny's human and people make mistakes that cause harm to others, but that doesn't erase their responsibility for the outcome of their actions.
     
  5. Elsie

    Elsie Shopaholic

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    I'm sure that if I were in Rikki's position I would blame Danny, partly because he's one person that she can direct her anger at and who probably feels he deserves it. IMO Rikki showed no poor judgement at all (although I do wonder why she never called Danny in the many hours before he came to tell her that Ruben was dead, she must really have trusted him...), it seems clear to me that they were probably long standing friends and that Danny has spent time with Ruben in the past. If anything it would be a good move for Rikki to allow a person like Danny, who would be a great role model and lots of fun, to spend time with her son.

    Whilst I'm sure that Danny feels responsible, I don't really feel that he was to blame. Yes he shouldn't have let Ruben get that far ahead, but he was shouting at him to wait at the corner, and yes he shouldn't necessarily have answered his phone, but it all took place in a matter of seconds. It was a series of unfortunate and unforeseeable events that occurred. And I think that is why he feels responsible, because however random it was Danny would always think 'what if?' :(
     
  6. rhythmbutterfly

    rhythmbutterfly Victim

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    "To say she had bad judgement says that no parent should ever let their kid go anywhere with anyone who isn't their parent. That's extreme, to say the least."

    Point taken. Just wondered where people stood on that.
     
  7. poison girl

    poison girl Pathologist

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    I don't think he was responsibel. Maybe e did wrong letting him run with his bike, but he also told Ruben not to turn the corner, bad thing kidds never do what you tell them to. After he turned the corner Danny run to him, and when he heard the gunshot he told him to run home because the danger right then was to stay where gunshots were fired. Maybe he should have checked to see if he did get home right, or call his mother and ask for him, but right then Ruben seemed ok.

    It's absolutely understable the mother blame him for his death, even Danny believing he was responsible because, after all, Danny was suposed to be taking care of him.
     
  8. dutch_treat

    dutch_treat CSI Level Two

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    I'm sorry, but when picking up a gun and firing it becomes instinctual that is all the more reason for people not to have guns lying around. Quite another discussion I know, but the initial question was whether Danny was responsible for Ruben's death, and I still feel very strongy that although he was responsible for the boy, there's unfortunately nothing you can do to keep a child (or anyone) from being hit by a flying bullit.

    He and Rikki will be haunted by the "what if's" forever but neither of them or their actions killed the boy.
     
  9. CSI808

    CSI808 Rookie

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    I'm going to have to say no on this one. It's a hard place to be in and I hope I never have to be in that position.

    All Danny could see was a man bleeding and another man running from the scene with a gun. How come Ruben never said anything? I'm not blaming Ruben, he was after all doing exactly what Danny told him. But if I got shot, I would say something. Danny had no idea Ruben was shot or even bleeding and that's something he could not have predicted especially when Ruben rode away on his bike like he was fine.

    But I do have to hand it to Ruben, that's a hell of a ways to ride a bike when you're that young and shot, even if it was just around the corner.
     
  10. nattybatty55

    nattybatty55 Nadalaholic

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    Sid said that sometimes if you are shot where he was you don't always realise straight away! And I think that because he was panicing because of the initial gun shot and seeing that man covered in blood would have only delayed his realisation! He was only ten :)
     
  11. MrsGiovinazzo

    MrsGiovinazzo CSI Level Three

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    Absolutely! The problem she'd face is that I'm pretty sure he could get the case dismissed using governmental immunity for acts of a police officer undertaken in furtherance of his job duties.

    If he were just some civilian acting as a good Samaritan in aiding at a crime scene, he'd probably be facing some degree of liability, even if only for a misdemeanor endangerment charge. But here, I think his badge would protect him even though he wasn't on the clock at the time.
     
  12. cSiNyFrEaK30

    cSiNyFrEaK30 Police Officer

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    I haven't voted yet, but I wanted to write a reply and see how it sounded before i picked a side.

    Like people have said before, I believe that Danny was responsible for the safety of Rueben, seeing as at the time he WAS the guardian of a ten year old child. In that way, I can understand how Rikki would blame Danny for his death.

    The whole situation was a tough one, especially for someone like Danny. Like rhythmbutterfly said, Danny does love children, but has never had much expirience with the parenting side of it the way that Rueben's mother or other parents have. Letting Rueben ride ahead of him on the bike seemed to be the natural thing for him to do, and Danny doesn't see a problem with letting Rueben race ahead. The fact that he let Rueben ride the bike ahead of him wasn't necessarily a mistake, if he had kept close behind. The fact is though, he let Rueben ride too far ahead before he tried to catch up.

    I don't place much blame on the phone call he answered, though. He thought he had control over the situation, he could see the boy, and he had no idea what was about to happen. He does hang up almost as soon as he believes Rueben went too far ahead, but i don't think him being on the phone had much affect on his keeping an eye on him.

    Where it really gets hard is his decision to tell Rueben to go home, as fast as he could. On one hand, there was the idea that there was a hold up or dangerous situation inside rhe bodega, where Rueben was pausing on his bike. There could have been someone inside the bodega that still meant harm, and Danny's first instinct is to get the young child out of the way of it. In that way, i understand why he told the boy to go home. They were, as they stated, only a block from home-if it were a longer distance it would be more questionable, but i think for the sitation, it was a split second decision that Danny made in the heat of the moment that he thought was right.

    But on the the opposite hand, there is the fact that the dangerous man running with a gun was running through the streets of New York, and the idea of sending a child on a bike through them seems to be a risky and potentially fatal choice. That, and the fact that Danny was suppposed to be watching Rueben, and keeping him safe. His first reaction to the shot should have been to make sure Rueben was safe. He knew of the general direction of the sound of the gunshot, and soon after saw a man sprinting away--so surely he could have known they came from the same place he'd just seen Rueben standing. I know that being a cop, his first reaction might have been to make sure the sight of the robbery/potential murder was secure and that everyone there was alright, but the fact is he had another person he should have been concerned about first. If anything, at the sound of the shot, regardless of how far away Rueben was on his bike, he could have yelled for Rueben to "Get down!", similar to the way he yelled at the commuters in the subway station in On the Job. He would have been down out of the way of further harm, and Danny could have been more aware of the injury Rueben had sustained, and he might have had a chance.

    When he heard the shot, Danny did the first thing he thought of to get the boy out of harm's way. Not knowing he had been shot, he believed he made the right choice-getting the boy away from the danger, and making sure the area was safe. His decision turned out to be fatal for the boy, and if he had stayed with Rueben he would have either realized the boy was shot immeadiatly, or prevented him being injured and killed completely.

    Based on what Danny knew of the situation, I don't think he is completely responsible for the fatal event. Even if Danny had rushed to Rueben's side immeadiatly after the shot, the shot still could have been fatal, regardless of Danny being there. Still though, if Rueben had been closer to Danny when the event occured, he might have never been shot.

    What i find completely unforgivable in this situation though, is Danny's reaction after the incident was over. Once he knew the people in the bodega were safe and help was on the way, the very first thing he should have done was call Rikki or go straight to his apartment, and make sure Rueben got home safely. Sending him home to be away from the danger would have been a totally plausible plan, if he had made sure the boy was safe once he got there. But he didn't. There is no mention that Danny even thought to travel to the apartment or call Ruben's mother, and the first time he is reminded of the boy is when he sees his lifeless body in the morgue. The fact that he let Rueben ride ahead of him, the fact that he told Rueben to go home as quickly as possible after the shot instead of keeping him close, the fact that he didn't realize the boy was shot, were all a tragic series of events, but in the grand scheme of things, they all could be seen as Danny's attempt to keep him safe and be a reponsible protector, IMO. But not making sure the boy was safe, and instead staying with the victim who was obviously alive and going to make it and processing the crime scene....that i can't justify. In that sense...I do believe Danny was responsible for Rueben's tragic death.
     
  13. Lorelai

    Lorelai CSI Level One

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    It was a series of unfortunate events.A bit responsible? Yes. To blame? No. But if Rikky would blame him, I'd understand that! Her son is dead. She needs to blame someone now, but I don't think she'll blame him forever. But I know he will blame himself forever. (yeah, I'm talking about continuity here)


    He made some bad choices. But let's not forget this is Danny. Naive and innocent Danny!He saw Ruben standing and he really thought he was fine.
    Pressure always gets to him, and he starts screwing up! Not his first stupid mistake, but the one with the worst consequences. (Makes me think of the whole Truby case with Flack and Mac. Every damn little think we do has consequences!)


    It's the what if what's gonna eat him up from inside. :( What if he didn't let him out of his sight, what if he wouldn't have answered the phone, what if he didn't send him home alone. Guilt is a big ugly monster. And someone as sensitive as Danny is an easy pray.


    Analyzing his reactions; he sees Ruben is fine (so he appeared) and just wants him out of there. He doesn't run after the perp. That was weird.It seems that what happened in OTJ got to him more then I thought. Was he afraid to chase the guy and repeat that series of unfortunate events? I think so.

    He just stayed there. Yeah, a man was hurt, people were panicked, he was a cop. But you know what I find ironic? All he's life he's been getting heat, mostly from Mac, for following his instincts, for not playing by the book. Facts not gut instincts! U know what I mean? This one time he played by the book. No walking the kid, cause that is personal matter, and he must be cop now. He didn't follow the perp. No chasing alone, or without back up. No firing his gun in public. He did what a cop does, got the EMs, comforted the vics, the public, described the perp cause he was a witness, processed the scene. But life is a b*tch, cause this went horribly wrong anyway. He thought the kid was ok and close to home, but he never made it there. After hearing the gun, the first think he does is call Ruben and run to him.So maybe this was the moment when he should have listen to his inner voice and at least walk Ruben away from that street. :(
     
  14. nattybatty55

    nattybatty55 Nadalaholic

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    ^^^ Like in 'On the Job' :)
     
  15. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    I can understand that once he made the decision to stay at the bodega that he stayed so he could fill in the authorities on what he saw and heard. But I agree that it made no sense that Danny stayed to process the scene and didn't call to make sure Ruben made it home or that Ruben's mother didn't call Danny to find out what the hell was taking them so long. They left for the church a little after 7:30 AM, yet Danny doesn't show up at Rikki's door until after dark. A bike blessing service wouldn't take that long and I would think being gone all day would've raised a red flag somehow. But then again, Flack, Lindsay and Stella entered the warehouse when it was broad daylight. They only spent a couple of minutes in there before they ran into the perps and when Flack chased the guy out of the building it was after dark as well.

    In most episodes, the light/dark issue would've just been one for the gaffe squad. With this episode, it really stands out because the physical appearance of significant time lapse puts a glaring spotlight on the inconsistencies in Danny's and Rikki's actions.
     

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