Why Lindsay REALLY Must Go (Pt. 2)

Ok, I read this thread. I skimmed the first one, as was suggested to me when I dared to say that people hate Lindsay because she's dating Danny. I watched all three complete seasons twice over and the newer episodes twice also, and I've come to several new conclusions:

1. Lindsay is hated because she replaced Aiden
2. Lindsay is hated because she was paired with Danny.
3. Carmine is a bad actor, but Danny is so beloved we must blame Lindsay/Anna for it his poor performances.
4. Lindsay is not able to empathize with people, which makes her difficult to like.
5. People dislike her (Anna or Lindsay or both) for various reasons and the more they dwell on it, the easier it is to find fault with her.

I dislike Hawkes. Big time. So I view his interactions with the characters very differently. For example, while almost everyone on this thread seems to think Flack does not Lindsay, I would disagree and point out that we have seen far more evidence that Flack and Hawkes do not get along. Are they professional with each other? Yes. But there is an underlying sense of tension between them.

Is it possible that my perspective on their relationship is colored by my absolute dislike of Hawkes? Yes. Probably.

My point: I don't think all the characters hate or are irritated by Lindsay nearly as much as people state they do. I even dare to suggest that people think this simply because they hate Lindsay.

My own take on Lindsay, especially with Mac and Stella is that they generally seem amused by Lindsay, and her relationship with Mac is very interesting for me. I like to watch them together on-screen, especially when she experiments with Mac.

In fact, my friend and I were watching "Sleight Out of Hand" last night, and when Mac offered to let Danny set his arm on fire, my friend said "If it were Lindsay, she would have set his arm on fire in a heartbeat."

Everyone's opinions are valid and it's been interesting to read this thread, but I have to firmly disagree. Lindsay's character is perfect for CSI NY because she's NOT perfect. She doesn't fit in; she isn't meant to. She provides a discord and disharmony that is GOOD for the show.

Now, before you all get huffy with me, I will say Lindsay is one of my least favorite characters. But if I had to choose between people who needed to stay, or people who needed to go on the cast, I would pick Lindsay to stay, and get rid of Hawkes and *sniffle* Adam.

I haven't seen a convincing piece of writing that tells me anything except that there is great dislike for Lindsay, and most of this centers around Danny for some odd reason.

I don't even find Anna's acting to be as hideous as people often complain about. All the actors have flat, hideous lines that just sound like they're trying too hard. Honestly, I feel that Stella is the least natural and most boring to watch, simply because I often feel like I'm watching the Melina acting rather than watching Stella.

The lack of crying on Lindsay's part when she's talking about her friends' murders is interesting, not bad acting. Someone I know happened to witness one of the most hideous car wrecks of all time (he still has nightmares seven years later) cried every time he talked about it, but eventually the tears have stopped. His voice trembles, he sounds teary, but he can't cry about it anymore.

And I think that's what happened with Lindsay. There's only so many tears you can cry over something before you just can't do it.

Lindsay apologizing to Danny in "Snow Day" is also interesting -- not annoying. She's survived a shooting in which her best friends died. She was out of the building when Flack and Mac were caught in an explosion, when she really should have been inside. She was resting and smiling while Danny was captured and beaten, when it should have been her. Logically, she shouldn't have to apologize for any of it. None of it was her fault, but you can bet that she spent years apologizing for surviving and moving forward with her life while her friends rotted away in the ground. She didn't really have to, but she felt guilty, people probably made her feel guilty. Another personal connection to Lindsay; a woman I know once told me that one day her daughter had apologized for being alive -- because the three older children had died in an accident, but the youngest survived. The response by the time "Snow Day" rolls around would have been instinctual and necessary for Lindsay. She had to apologize because...she had to.

So, to wrap up this excessively long post, I just have to say that I tend to disagree with the assessment that Lindsay was the worst thing ever to happen to CSI NY. I think though that to be fair, there isn't much character analysis of Lindsay going on here aside from "OMG, she's so annoying and I hate her".

Anyway, feel free to tear my post apart and call me a moron. :-D If the mods want to move my post that's fine, or if they want me to post my views in the Lindsay thread instead, I will be happy to oblige.

Oh, and Danny and Lindsay were the worst idea ever, but only because Danny is too irritating to date anyone. But that's just my opinion. :-D

 

How you could come to these conclusions from reading the two WLMG threads boggles my mind. There have been countless, well thought out and well written examples of why people dislike Lindsay/Anna. To boil it down to love of other characters or just plain dislike for dislike's sake is insulting to people who took the time to provide reasons for their dislike of the character/actress.

You like Anna/Lindsay and dislike other characters/actors. Good for you. I dislike Anna/Lindsay and like other characters/actors. Good for me. Having differing opinions on the character and the portrayal is a good thing. If everyone thought the same life would be boring.

However, stating that you dislike other characters and taking the tone of telling everyone how to interpret the acting and the story lines does in no way change or negate anyone else's opinion.


I leave you with a quote to ponder:

“Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.”
--Marcus Aurelius

 

I'm afraid that kind of negates everything else you said for me. I have very little tolerance for that at this point.

You skimmed, did you say? Well, it shows.

I get the distinct feeling that your "sniffle" was sarcastic.

You can't condense more than a thousand posts into five generalized statements. Sorry. I believe a poster's time is better spent expressing his/her own opinion rather than telling other people what their opinion is. Because quite frankly, when someone says 'this is what you think', I really couldn't care less.

 

If these are the conclusions you’re getting at after reading this thread I don’t think you read through properly or carefully enough.

Yeah, I REALLY think you might have skimmed a bit through this one too.

 

Prizes for walking into a thread, telling us what we think, and even better, what we've said, and being completely off the mark on both counts. Well done you.

Like:

...er, that's because Lindsay centers around Danny. As in "was attached to early on and was then propped up by."

Fail. Now try reading through the threads properly and all of the well-thought-out arguments as to why people don't like Lindsay, and then come back to give us a decent well-written argument about what YOU think, not what you've misunderstood as OUR views and how you can best prove them wrong. Because from where I'm reading right now, this skims awfully close to trolling.

 

Exactly my point.

Everybody that posted here gave real situations where she really failed to express her feelings. It's not we hate her because she's Aiden replacement or because she was paired to Danny, it's just that Lindsay as a character and Anna as an actress hadn't been in line with the other characters and actors in NY.

And of course, where you see white I see black, after all when you say she's what the show needed I see she isn't what a show like NY deserve.

 

Sorry. I walked in and found that generalization funny.

Anna is the problem, not Carmine. When Carmine and Anna are paired together, Carmine has to act off of the bad material Anna/Lindsay is giving off. It really has nothing to do with Carmine/Danny.

*shouts up to Fay and gives her a well-deserved hug*

 

LOL.

 

I take that as a hug back.


Lindsay must go. :lol:

 

1. If you want to be technical, Hawkes replaced Aiden. Or, are you like those D/L Lovers who seems to forget the first season and two episodes of the second, before Lindsay showed up?
2. Thank you for negating everyone’s thought out posts to jealousy over a ship.
3. That’s just laughable. :lol: I have read people suspecting Carmine’s lack on enthusiasm being based upon the D/L storyline, but that’s not about Anna Belknap. That’s the storyline. I’m sure he’d trade another On the Job over D/L any day.
4. I’d be better able to empathize with her character if she were able to act out an emotion that isn’t wooden.
5. Nah, I just dislike Lindsay. I don’t know Anna, but I know her work and I hate it.

That's exactly what I thought while reading that post…

Was that worse was her crying scene in “Sleight of Hand”? I was so prepared for her to ‘Wow!’ me, as Anthony Zuiker had hyped her performance as ‘jaw-dropping’. I can’t forget how my jaw did drop with annoyance because I thought Anna Belknap wasn’t convincing. I wanted to reach into the courtroom and give her a bottle of Dulcolax. Was she crying or having an IBS problem?

You must REALLY dislike Hawkes because that character gets the least amount of screen time, compared to the rest of the cast. You probably would like him better if they hadn’t stolen some of his character development time and given it to Lindsay. We know so much more about her than Hawkes and people still come to this thread to state their dislike of her. Funny…

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: Wait? Did somebody actually say we're blaming Anna/Lindsay for Carmine's bad acting?

Dude? There's a reason why TPTB is using Carmine/Danny as a PROP for Anna/Lindsay. It's because he's so damn good that he can handle pulling along TWO characters at the same time on the show! I'll leave it at that.

Now, that point about Lindsay feeling the need to apologize throughout her life for what happened to her friends and thus apologizing to Danny in Snow Day ... that's an interesting one. I just have a little problem with it: if Lindsay's that type of character to always apologize for what happened, she would be more like Adam. Jumpy, shy, always wanting to please people so nobody would be angered? Quick to apologize?

The thing is, Lindsay is nothing like that. In fact, she's been the opposite. She acts like a spoiled brat when people disagree with her, has gotten rather unprofessional with some of the team a few times already, has never outright apologized for anything before that one moment in Snow Day and ... yeah, really, just look at Adam for a fine example of what a character of past victimization/abuse/trauma is like.

 

I don't recall if this has been mentioned before, but even if it has, I think it bears repeating.

S3 was supposed to be a big one for Anna/Lindsay, what with Lindsay's "deep dark secret" and Anna Belknap's "jaw dropping" performances. OK, PTB, that's all fine and good.

Then Emmy time rolled around. Who from CSI: NY did CBS submit for nomination consideration in the big four acting categories for a drama?

Lead Actress: Melina Kanakaredes
Lead Actor: Gary Sinise
Supporting Actor: Carmine Giovinazzo
Supporting Actress: (sound of crickets chirping)

The fact that CBS didn't even submit Anna Belknap for consideration of a nomination speaks volumes, IMO.

ETA: I realize that in S2 Melina Kanakaredes was the only person from CSI: NY submitted for consideration of an Emmy nomination.

Despite that, I still think it speaks volumes when you take the time to submit actors in three of the four acting categories, but do not even bother submitting anyone for the fourth category.

 

Um, that's a lot of research ... A bit too much really.

I'm quite sure that the folks responsible for CSI: NY intend for us to like Lindsay (the attempts at cuteness, the whole angsty back-story and subsequent "romance" implies as much). We are just deconstructing the text and pointing out the internal contradictions between the intended narrative and the result that makes it to the screen. In other words, it is quite valid to point out that, while the other characters are probably meant to like Lindsay, their performances could be interpreted differently in context.

I too prefer her interactions with Mac. They have tended to be Anna's stronger scenes.

It's an interesting theory that Lindsay is meant to be discordant. They do play up the country girl angle a lot. Really a lot; as if we'd somehow forgotten from week to week.

We have discussed the theory that perhaps she isn't meant to be likable. Certainly, plenty of her behaviour last season was pretty unpleasant, even with the supposed excuse of her traumatic history. It is hard to view the scene where she essentially tells Stella to mind her own business after she asks why Lindsay left the crime scene ("Silent Night") as anything but rude, while Stella was trying to be kind. It demonstrated a real weakness of character.

However, I disagree with your statement that it is good for the show. Unlikable characters can be integral to a story, and even admirable in their own way, but Lindsay doesn't consistently fit this mold. Her behaviour is just too inconsistent most of this time to draw that conclusion. It doesn't smack of deliberateness, so much as incompetence.

Okay, that's fine. Nobody says you need to like or love those characters. However, that really isn't relevant to the discussion, which is whether Lindsay/Anna is a worthwhile member of the cast.

Anything about what? This thread and the previous one is full of examples where we feel Lindsay/Anna has either given a weak performance, detracted from the story, or been a poor addition to the cast. We usually give examples and say how we feel those examples back up our argument. This is the basis of good, reasoned discussion. What would you accept as proof of Lindsay's crappiness, when even we acknowledge that this view is entirely subjective?

Danny is an inevitable part of the discussion since a large part of last season was devoted to the evolving romance between the two. It isn't the romance itself that was objectionable, although why we need any central romance in a crime procedural is debatable, but the juvenile handling of the whole thing. It was painfully awkward to watch, especially given the lack of chemistry between the actors. This lead to the notion that perhaps Danny was being used to prop up a character that wasn't capable of standing on her own. I think you'll find that most people on TalkCSI at least like Danny; Lindsay is the divisive character.

Everyone is entitled to a bad day. Lindsay/Anna just seems to have so many more of them (allegedly). :lol:

That may be so, but last season spent quite a lot of effort trying to establish the fact that Lindsay was soooo deeply traumatised by the event that it was affecting both her work and her personal life. But when the big emotional pay off came at the trial, when Lindsay was to give evidence against the fiend who brutally slaughtered her friends, the emotion fell flat as a tack. She failed dismally to convey any true deep feeling, though she did try. Your scenario is valid for the real world, but this is television, where everything is bigger and BIGGER. It was just bad acting.

No, I don't buy it. That just supports the argument that she sees all of these events in relation to herself first, the affected parties second. Surely, you would keep those thoughts to yourself while your boyfriend is bleeding in front of you and focus on him. Your guilt, however valid or invalid, could wait until later; it wouldn't be the first thing out of your mouth.

I disagree with your assessment. I've seen quite a bit of reasoned argument. Certainly, there have been a lot of posts that have gone well beyond "OMG, I hate her". That just implies that you have tended to read very selectively, if at all.

Although if we do get a bit catty from time to time, then that's just part of the fun. :devil: After all, it's not like Lindsay would ever be dropped as a result of this thread. We aren't delusional.

Moron!! Hey, you asked! :lol: Just kidding ...

This has also been a horrendously long post, that will probably repeat many points made by others. However, I wanted to toss my two cents in without being contaminated by other replies. So, please accept my apologies.

Feel free to fall asleep now, just try to miss the keyboard. Key indentations in your face are NOT a good look.