Re: Episode #608: 'Permanent Vacation' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS* No, no that's okay, I didn't think you were directing it at me at all, I was just expanding my opinion of why I thought Boa Vista and her sudden fountain of knowledge was a bit off that was all - honest Ryan had gone to seminars and got the books and stuff, I think that was established in his interview/chat with Horatio a tthe beginning, but Boa Vista was a cold case expert and that's not really condusive to the science of the CSI - More like information gathering and what not. And I know that she's learning things, but I just think it's awfully quick for her to know certain things and be in charge of such delicate operations on her own, and know how to do it and what to look for, when for others, such as Valera, it, I would assume, would have taken years. It just seems that an important character, Valera, has been shoved out of the way to make room for another one that really shouldn't be there yet. That was all.
Re: Episode #608: 'Permanent Vacation' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS* Welcome to the club. Actually H character was damaged long time ago by TGTB (post S3). And now his evil twin bro damaged the show. Thanks God that we have Eric/Call plot line and this somehow keep my interest on Miami. Adam and Emily do great job there together. More of this please.
Re: Episode #608: 'Permanent Vacation' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS* :lol: Evil twin bro :lol: though I do disagree about the Horatio character having been damaged before. But anyway, semantics, chuckle, because the end of this week's episode was definitely a Horatio damaging moment for me I dunno really. In all honesty, my preference would be to leave all inter-departmental relationships firmly ensconced in the fanfic world and that we returned on-screen to the flirtations and good humour of the earlier seasons of CSI Miami. I've never really been a fan of having/showing inter-departmental relationships because they then begin to swing the context of the show towards becoming a 'soap opera' and I'd seriously hate it if CSI Miami survived exclusively on that alone. I mean, I am a Horatio/Calleigh shipper and another m/m shipper too, but only in fanfic. I prefer friendships and teamwork on the show and that's what I hope it begins to strive for again.
Re: Episode #608: 'Permanent Vacation' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS* Hey Della - couldn't agree more with you: As much as I love my ship, seeing them go forward with a romantic relationship up might be weird, if only b/c it could end badly. (My personal theory as to why Cal and H aren't interacting is b/c they briefly did move forward w/a relationship last season (between "Dark Room" and "Man Down" - and then it fell apart.) I just think the chemistry from the first two seasons was great b/c everyone was friendly, and there was some subtext, but the main thing was everyone cared for each other as friends. We need more camaraderie, not romance. Just look at CSI:Vegas - how are they going to explain Sara's depature when she's so involved w/Grissom? Anyway, this week's episode definitely had some out-of-character moments, but hopefully next week will make up for it.
Re: Episode #608: 'Permanent Vacation' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS* I think that one inter-departmental relationships can stay very truthful in a tv show (or real life). They work long time together, do care and trust each others - what a good begining for one love story line. And this days Miami desperately need some real ground plot line. When it`s come to Eric and Call I don`t think that this can turn out any soapy. After this awful S4 when CSI Miami move to 'soap opera' tv show category with H/Aerosol fiasco, from long time now TGTB make good step with Eric/Call relationships. Hope to not spoil it. And yep I agree that all shipps have to stay in the fanfic land. But when it`s come to canon the things are a lot different. This is the reality. And coz some of us don`t like it most easy way is to say that 'I prefer to not have love interests in my tv show'. Come on exactly the 'love' is the salt in the food. U guys want the team be back together like S 1-2. Ok the best way is someone to bring back the real H familly and we again will have one great boss who can unite/manage/protected his guys.
Re: Episode #608: 'Permanent Vacation' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS* Just a reminder that we would appreciate it if shipping speculation (that relates to scenarios not depicted on the show itself), remains in the relevant thread in Shipper Central. Thanks.
Re: Episode #608: 'Permanent Vacation' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS* To be honest, I like the flirtations and a very very subtle UST going on, not a full blown romantic liaison between two characters, such as Calleigh/Jake, Calleigh/Hagen and Horatio/Marisol. In my opinion, when it comes to any program other than a soap opera, whenever a romance is introduced, it detracts the viewer from the concept, context and setting of the show because a romance can happen anywhere - Whereas the setting (Miami Dade Crime Lab and Miami itself) the context (Crime Scene Investigations) and the concept (to show how CSIs operate) of the show can only happen in CSI Miami and that's what CSI Miami should be all about, not, in my opinion, who fancies who, who's shagging who or who wants to shag who... and so on. Intentional or not, one thing I enjoyed about S5 was Horatio pulling away from his team a little bit - that the PTBs may have been bold enough to show him suffering from the loss of three people (Speed, Marisol and Ray) who were very important to him and nigh-on losing two others (Eric and Ray jnr) who were just as important. What’s slightly disappointing me at the moment is that at the end of S6ep6, I thought Horatio's words to Ryan would have signalled the beginning of Horatio returning to his team. Although that hasn't happened yet, I am hoping that it does happen somewhere during S6. In my opinion, you can’t go back as if the last 3-4 Seasons hasn’t happened, it would be a complete and utter mess if they did that, because all of the characters have undeniably changed. But, for me, it's still possible to move forward from this point and be able to reclaim the ‘teamwork’ and the 'close friendships' that were most definitely there in the first couple of seasons, and I think it can be done without having to show full blown relationships between the main characters. In fact I think it can only be done by NOT having/showing romances between the main characters
Re: Episode #608: 'Permanent Vacation' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS* Believe me I prefer some romance, then all this drama about H. Even this to be crime tv show we need some characters development. And what better way to do this...( all is about the CSI work, right ?!) ...then bring two team members together and bingo... no need to think out ridiculous NY past or long lost son story... I still don`t think that any romance can make soup.. remember H/Yelina relationship ?! It was done so well and thanks of this see one human, somethimes even embarassed H... I don`t think that this detracts the viewer from the concept of the show, only add more 'colour' to the character. Errr... did we watch the same tv show ?! I don`t remember this season H to show some emotions... he only pose, put on/off shades or said silly one liners. How after this I can think that this guy suffer ?! And this revenge mission in Rio can`t change my mind at all. Btw why S 1-3 H don`t kill his bro killer ?! As I remeber most of the guys in this forum was wonder why H said this words to Ryan. They don`t make any sense and as a whole this moment was so out of the blue. Well S 4-6 H have very corny lines so I move forward. This is Miami after all and we don`t have to take it seriously, rigth?! No surprise at all that some guys don`t get Radio Times humour reviews. The characters have undeniably changed, coz TGTB forgot what they write in the begining of this tv show. The bigest mess become exactly coz someone don`t know how to make continuation. And coz of this a lot fans are disappoint. (mainly from H). Just this tv show is not the same... In S6 TGTB make little connection with the past (re Speed) or bring back Rebbeca or Yelina and as a whole this epis have very good fans reviews. So don`t u think that this is the right formula for success ?!
Re: Episode #608: 'Permanent Vacation' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS* Yes, I understand that you prefer romance, pusher. In all honesty, I think we may have a different concept of what constitutes “Character Development”. Character development to me is exactly what is happening when it comes down to especially the Horatio character, the Delko character and the Ryan character. For me, the least character development taking place at the moment is the Calleigh character. The only thing that has really changed with that character is her getting involved with Jake and that’s not character development, that’s just her getting involved with Jake. In my opinion, the Calleigh character for me hasn’t progressed at all of late, because most of the concentration has been about her and Jake and the rest we already knew about her. In fact, if anything, I think there may have been a slight regression of the character. Hopefully though, next week we’ll see some improvement when it comes to Calleigh. Yes, I would say we watched the same show – at least, I know I was watching S5 of CSI Miami. All in all, a character doesn’t have to show any form of emotion, such as bursting into tears, to show the viewer that they are suffering. All you have to do is remember what has happened, watch what the character is doing and draw your own conclusions. That’s what I do anyway. Whereas I would say from how you described the Horatio character, you’re more of someone who has to be shown clearly what is going on, such as someone bursting into tears, to know that they are upset? I could be wrong though. The reason Horatio didn’t kill the one who had offed his Brother during S1-3 is because Horatio didn’t know how his brother had died or, more importantly, who had killed him. Then when he did find the one he thought had killed his brother, Bob Keaton, he had him incarcerated for life without parole. Then, through Bob Keaton, who was actually an undercover agent, Horatio discovered that his brother was alive. This is why Horatio never killed the one he thought had murdered his brother. I have to say that I find it a bit bemusing that you never got all of this when you watched because it was very clear to me what was happening. I think in answer to this, pusher, I will say that there are many varying reasons as to why people watch and enjoy/get frustrated by a show like CSI Miami. But just because someone places a lot of credence on a character/show, it doesn’t mean that a dry wit and a heavy dose of sarcasm is beyond all of them. There are times when some of the RT comments have made me laugh, but there have been other times when they have left me scratching my head and wondering what the devil they had been talking about. Still, your mention of the RT comments and how people do and do not perceive them, what that has to do with this discussion is a bit beyond me to be honest. This would be a matter of opinion, in all honesty. I haven’t seen any glaring errors of continuity at all, apart from the couple that I mentioned earlier in this week’s episode. I think, from what I’ve read on here, the biggest disappointment is a lack of overall teamwork, friendship and the humour that was evident in the earlier seasons of CSI Miami, and I am inclined to agree with them. However, having said that, I am enjoying the concentration of the Horatio character this season, especially the introduction of the Kyle character. And no, I’m not missing Yelina or Ray Junior at all, (I was never particularly fond of them anyay). However, I wouldn’t mind a re-introduction of Madison and Suzie, because I do miss them, but it wouldn’t send me into a tizzy if we never see them again.
Re: Episode #608: 'Permanent Vacation' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS* First I think that Jake will affect Call character. And next few epis we will see it. Ur takeing my words literally. If we try to compare H and his bro past + H and his dead wife there is so big difference. Time ago S 1-3 when H character background was his bor death I do understand why H try to protect the rest. Maybe try to buy up some guilt that didn`t help his bro ?! Coz he don`t want someone else to take his bro 'dark way'?! Also H team was H familly that he never have ...etc... see for this H action I see reason and backup why he was Holy H and I know that H still suffer for his bro lose. But after S 4 from H character stay only shadow. Only one RoboCop who says strong words, do nothing most of the time and in the end always save the day...How after this I can believe this guy that he lose everything and coz of this act so out of space. And re 'why S 1-3 H don`t kill his bro killer ?!' - this was rhetorical question. And to why I mention RT comments .. well this is simple, till in Miami have 'blond' momets as far we will fave fun read RT`s review. That`s it. CSI Miami do need to come back to the Earth. And if TGTB do not care for theirs fans opinion I hope that one day all this negative and sarcastic magazine/news papers comments will make them to change something in Miami to good. Time ago I use to love this tv show, but now...*sigh* ur disappointment from uhh... one H action... but believe me more moments like this will come soon... yep, coz every season we have brand new drama story for H. Do u think that after all this fans complaints re poor Miami scripts and lack of overall teamwork, friendship and the humour whole 3 years will make exactly now TGTB to handle Kyle plot line well ?! I have big doubt. Hope the future to prove that I`m wrong... but with all this H intervention in the judiciary/court re cross the line and do what is good for Kyle is little or more over the top.
Re: Episode #608: 'Permanent Vacation' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS* Woops! my apologies, Lucy - got a little carried away there. Hope this post doesn't go too off-topic, but I'm just addressing the overarching conversation this episode sparked. As for this whole debate - I still say the writers (since they’re out on strike, anyway) should take a look at NCIS - that team chemistry is terrific, believable and entertaining. We need that on Miami - not these pairing up scenes (and yes, I mean pairing up of everyone.) We hardly see scenes w/more than two cast members and that’s freakin’ annoying. Frankly, I want to see the "buddy" relationships come back - like Speed and Eric. They were very close, and it was fun to watch them play off each other. I would say something similar of H/C - you don't have to ship them to see they were close. (The early scenes with them together, H was vulnerable and/or smiling a lot - ie: “Kill Zone,” “Breathless,” “Broken,” “Double Cap,” “The Best Defense,” “Rap Sheet,” “Lost Son,” “After the Fall,” etc. Now, you hardly see the man crack a smile.) I mean, if Eric and Speed had all of a sudden stopped having scenes together for 24 episodes (if Speed was still around) I think people would do a double-take I think Eric and Speed had a similar friendship as H and Cal did (though I’m sure they weren’t clubbin’ or anything ) - they were close friends, and all of a sudden,w/ H and Cal, there’s nothing - it’s just weird. The fact of the matter is, Yelina is not coming back full time. I think we got some great H moments w/Yelina, but Sofia Milos is on another series now and the CSI:Miami cast has gotten so big that (unfortunately) I don’t think there’s room for her. We need someone who will get H to open up, and I don’t want it to be another “stranger” like Marisol. That was just odd, in my opinion, and it didn’t really work - H was never as open w/her as he was with Yelina. Kyle could help make H vulnerable and human again, but he’s stuck in jail and I have a feeling it’s going to end badly, like everything else in H’s life. We’ll see if next week’s episode will lead to any new team camaraderie (maybe H will actually acknowledge Calleigh’s existence!) Regarding continuity — I HATE the fact that H just keeps having new drama - let the man deal w/one tragedy at a time please. I mean, can we please see this whole issue w/the murder of his mother resolved? I just don’t understand the exposition there - he kills his father to save his mother, he gets a subpoena about it, and then nothing happens with it. Also, have Suzie and Maddison disappeared to the land of the lost or something? What happened to poor Maddy - did she even get well? That really irks me, too. Bottom line — I think the show needs TEAM scenes, less “new” drama and more drama from the past (Like “Bang Bang, Your Debt - LOVED that episode!), and more humor somehow, even if it’s sarcasm.
Re: Episode #608: 'Permanent Vacation' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS* No worries - happens to us all. We don't know for sure that Sofia Milos won't return to the show full time, but I agree it's unlikely. Her current role on a new show finishes in December. I imagine she will continue to appear as a guest star, which of course is better than no Yelina at all. I would love to see her return to the show as a regular, but I appreciate that is probably wishful thinking. I certainly don't think we've seen the last of the H/Y storyarc.
Re: Episode #608: 'Permanent Vacation' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS* I was screaming at this at the tv. I mean first for her to have a gun and then so easily shoot it? I can only assume they were actually snowbirds who spent a lot of time in the gun toting US of A. And why was everyone just "oh look la la la la grief stricken wife of angry man and mother of crazy son is going to confront the killer, maybe she just wants to hug him or make him cookies la la la".
Re: Episode #608: 'Permanent Vacation' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS* I agree. It was so stupid that made me scream again at the screen. I mean, dude if you haveo big salary that in every 3rd eppy you can give someone a new place to give, why not use that money to help the poor people :| I thought I never say this but another thing is those... pauses... he has when he speaks. Those used to be normal but now those look so - unnatural in some point. I just noticed it in this episode. The only positive thing about the episode was to see Dean Cain - we just saw Las Vegas eppys he was in and took like an episode to realise "uh - isn't that the guy who was Superman?" But then it was sad that we didn't see more of Leslie Hope. So lame episode. IMO.
Re: Episode #608: 'Permanent Vacation' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS* Hey fellow CSI: Miami fanatics...I have been so busy with college I have missed the last two eppys! I am NOT missing next Monday, I saw the previews and it looks so good!! But, could ya'll tell me the main things that happened that are vital info to know from this eppy. Any major character things happeneing? Any new developments in any lives? I would really appreciate it! I will watch it at somepoint but who knows when...