The Great Ship Debate - CSI:Crime Scene Investigation

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Well, I'm kinda new to The Love ship myself. I do look at Nick/Greg interaction a little differently now. I do feel now that Nick was very touchy feely with Greg early on. Nick slaps Greg on the chest or shoulder in a playful manner, leaning over Greg's shoulder to watch him work or possibly annoy him. Their banter seems fairly unique to the show too. Nick and Warrick's banter, is much like a competition, but Nick and Greg's feels more cordial and less about one up-ing the other. I dunno, other The Love shippers who have dissected every Nick/Greg moment together could probably argue this better than I. :lol: But that's what I got.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

But isn't it typical for guys to have joking relationships with guys? I mean Greg is just a light hearted fellow...sort of like a funny guy that jokes around alot. I just think Nick could have a different friendship with Greg versus Warrick. The personalities are different.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

^^ yeah, but Greg flirts with everyone... Nick is really the only one that flirts back. And they are more touchy feely than anybody else on the show. They're ALWAYS looking for an excuse to touch and be close to one another, most of the time they get closer than necessary.

PLUS, it's cannon that they're both straight, but what kinds of things has Greg done besides flirting? He talked about dating 2 girls, one week he was in a 'relationship' with a girl, the next week he was bragging about the hot new girl he met, and BOTH scenes were with Nick, seems like he's trying to make someone jealous

And what else? Calling Pink hot? Trying to throw Warrick off from thinking he's gay if you ask me. He tries too hard to LOOk straight.

Nick could be bi, its possible, seriously, the population of bi people in the world is so much higher than homosexual. Plus he was buried alive, he had a lot of time to think there, thinking he was missing out on love, opening his mind, he probably realized he had a thing for Greg, and since he got a second chance *shrug*

If you ask me, I think their love and attraction for each other has grown. In the first couple seasons you saw them joking and touching... staring at eachother's asses... now they seem so comfortable with each other, just happy to be in each other's company. IMO, I think they're already dating, secretly, and have been since right after GD. I also think Grissom knows about it, which is why he hasn't been putting them on many cases together...

I could go on and on... but if this doesnt convince you I'll save it for another post...

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

i've never noticed any kind of attraction between Nick and Greg really. the first time it came to my mind is b/c i read about it on Talk some time ago.

so no, i don't think TPTB would ever go the route to canonize The Love.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I am not against gay/bi relationships, but to me I see absolutely no attraction between the two of them. They are friends, Greg trys to show up his fellow co-workers. He's young, he's hot. The other guys' are getting older. Apprently Warrick is married, and Nick is totally having a fling with Catherine. I agree with Adz, but I don't think they will canonize any same-sex relationships of their main cast - not that they disagree with the nature.. But, I just don't see it happening. Guess you never know, though.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I don't think they'll cannonize the relationship either, stupid ratings and stuff to worry about, but I DO think the boys are dating behind the scenes, and I DEFINITELY don't think Nick and Catherine are having any kind of fling.

Neither of the boys have really flirted with anyone but each other for the past two seasons. They're together. Definitely.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I'm not against Gay or Bi. I don't see any attraction or flirt between Nick and Greg. Nick always flirt with Catherine and Sara. Nick care about Greg, he see him as his little brother that need protecting from outside world.

Some people think Nick flirt with Sofia, I don't see him flirt with Sofia.

I think Catherine is a okay mom, not a bad mother or good mother. She is a lousy supervisor but at the same time, she got not choice because the undersheriff told her, it not her call, but she could find the way around it. He doesn't have to know about it. Undersheriff didn't tell the DA about what they doing.

If it was Grissom and Catherine on vacation. Grissom will tell his teams about the suspect and tell them to keep it quiet, because he trust them to do their job because they followed the evidence.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Point taken. That's how I used to view the Nick/Greg interaction. It was only a little while ago I went back and rewatched Seasons 1 and 2 and felt differently.

If Nick and Greg is boiled down to just joking with the guys, then I think you could easily argue that of any ship here, at some point in canon. I mean there are ships now like Warrick/Catherine, Grissom/Sara, Greg/Sara (maybe) where their banter was/is obviously more than just friends joking with friends. There may be more ships, but that's besides the point.

I guess if Nick and Greg are just guys joking around, then maybe Nick and Sara's interaction is more like brother/sister. Or Nick and Sofia get along swimmingly because they laughed at the same time, but nothing more came of it. Or Grissom and Lady Heather are just friends because they both enjoy tea and quoting random dead guys. These can all be innocous relationships that involve close interaction and a level of understanding only achieved if two people are on the same wavelength or. . .maybe it's more.

I think it just comes down to how you read a scene between two people. When Nick was dancing with Cath in BtK1, I just saw two friends having a good time and unwinding after a long shift. Many others saw something else.

Sometimes, it just comes down to a feeling. How does one feel when Grissom and Sara share a look? Is it a look of mutual understanding or something else?

Nick/Greg, to me, feels fun. Flirty. Genuine. Haha, I'm not sure I can give you more than that.

So maybe the question I can pose to any of you, is a feeling enough for you or do you need the ship to be canonized (or somewhat close to canonized) before you decide, "yeah, they're my OTP!"?

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Edog, way to go - you've just hit the nail on the head for me! In terms of chemistry and reading behaviour, I could ship just about anybody on Vegas. An incredible cast that combusts, no matter in what combination, is one of the show's greatest strengths. In the same light, I'd have to ship everybody or ship nobody if I went solely by looks, or ambiguous words. So I generally choose to ship nobody. (Saves time on the boards.)

Grissom and Sara are different to me because the interaction between them was more substantial than that. "Butterflied" is an obvious example. Had the victim looked like Catherine and not Sara, I would have concluded that Grissom had feelings for Catherine. Similarly, if Grissom had held Sofia's hand and said "Honey, this doesn't look good" in PWF or looked at the homeless guy and said "I've got a guy named Ecklie, and he would love that scarf" in HA, then I would have concluded that these were the show's directions as well. But the show put Sara in those contexts, not some other character. I've watched enough TV by now to know the difference between ambiguous character interaction that could be read both ways, and definite anvils that are dropped to inform people which way the wind is blowing for TPTB.

However, that said, I'm more generous that WP himself when it comes to LH - I've privately always believed he slept with her in LHB, and that he had a "thing" for her. It doesn't surprise me that he'd have a "thing" for another woman when the stuff with Sara was so complex and murky, so that doesn't bother me. Last week's episode has made me rethink that, obviously; I'm now forced to conclude that either Grissom slept with LH and it made him sad, that he didn't sleep with LH at all, or that he slept with LH because he loved her but that's all water under the bridge and his heart fully belongs to Sara now. I'm not sure which is correct, but I'm open to all those interpretations.

So yeah, although GSR wasn't canonized as actually being together until the end of Season 6, I always thought it was canon that the show was leaving the possibility open of heading in that direction... more so than nearly any of the other character permutations*. That is, if the show ever decided to do romance, then they were going to go with GSR even though there are other pairings with chemistry as well. Eventually you have to hang your hat on something, you know? Otherwise you end up with a Smallville situation where the showrunners try to cater to every single major ship and just end up pissing off everybody in the process.

*Except for Catherine and Warrick, of course. I don't necessarily care about that pairing, but it's definitely canon that TPTB have left open the possibility for that as well. And hey, if they want to make it explicit or drop a few strong anvils that Greg is actually bi and Nick is confused about his sexuality... I'll at least wait to see how it plays out before I make a judgment.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Yeah I think pretty much every idea of a relationship is sort of what you see in the couple because it hasn't been proven yet. I'm not talking about GSR...because obviously we all know they are a couple.

But, the other ones its just a matter of what people see, and how they reflect on that. I personally saw something between Cath and Nick while they danced in BTK...it was a light flirting dance...but the chemistry between them rocked the joint. Again...that is my take on it. Then in redrum...the angst between the two was undeniably strong and full of tension that it surpassed the level of just friendship. I happened to see more than just friendship with Nick/Cath! I can come up with more moments if anyone wants to read them. But, I also like this ship so I tend to look for catnip moments versus looking for The Love moments. Plus, I swear I'm not bashing here...but I honestly can't see CSI going that route, but heck they have surprised us before...so you never know.

I honestly didn't think they would hook Grissom up with someone he works with...it's just so against the way I read Grissom. He's for the most part has seen things black and white. He doesn't like Greg playing loud music while he works, he doesn't like to hear certain banter regarding private things...and I have heard him say I don't need to hear this. He's an analyzer of things...and to me seems to like to play by the rules, and tries to avoid jumping into a huge political mess. Hence the reason...I didn't see them hooking him up with a subordinate which will land him in a heap of politcal crap. I just gave my reasoning...simply so I wouldn't have to come back and say it, but my point is CSI has surprised us before...they can always do it again.


But, personally, I'd rather see catnip. I find this couple to show great chemistry...and that is if CSI would even do another canon ship. But...if they did...this would be my choice.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I have always seen chemistry between Nick and Greg. Of course, there was more in the earlier seasons there is now. The last major Nick/Greg moment I can recall was during Fannysmackin, but Nick's reaction wasn't nearly as strong as Sara's reaction in the same ep, or even Warrick's reaction to Nick being buried in Grave Danger.

In my opinion, it was always kind of an inside joke. TPTB realized there was a fanbase and deliberately gave them all those sexually ambiguous moments. Not that I'm complaining. I'd do cartwheels if they made The Love canon. Hell, The Love would be more in-character than GSR IMO, and we all see how that turned out. Anything's possible now. The ship sh!t has hit the fan! :lol:

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

the thing with what Americans call "chemistry" is that it's abstract. if everybody, without any exception, would claim there IS chemistry between some two characters on a show, it wouldn't be abstract anymore. and it's impossible, b/c chemistry is not materialized. you cannot visibly see it, you can only feel it.

usually the chemistry is what the two people who are directly involved are feeling. it's the invisible sparks, the butterflies in ones stomach.

and who said that all the people around are supposed to see it all? you cannot see the chemistry itself, what you see is the actions of the characters that are triggered by it. sometimes, yes, you'll see a flustered face, a blush, confusion, uneasiness, or a flirty joke before anything starts.

in the instance of Grissom and Sara for example, the chemistry between them is undeniable IMO. and not b/c i can see my TV sparkling everytime they are on screen, lol, but b/c of what they say, look and how they behave towards each other over the years.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

I agree with Adzix. I don't think there's any such thing as "clear chemistry" or "no chemistry" within any given couple. Each persons' POV on the matter is entirely unique. I, personally, saw zero chemistry between Marg and Gary and found their "romantic" scenes forced. Others think they have a real and palpable vibe.

I find chemistry in GSR, others find it forced.

It's cool to argue that you personally see chemistry, but not to decide what others should be seeing.

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

Isn't that sort of what debating is about. For example, when you explain why you like GSR...and argue your point your trying to get others to see what you are seeing by validating each and every single point. I don't think your trying to force others to like your ship...but validating it a normal thing.

The fact is...people are going to argue and disagree and try to prove why they are right! This is a debate thread...trying to get others to understand your points is just part of it.

I really don't have an argument against the Love...just that I never looked at it that way before, and still don't see it. I remember too much of Greg flirting with Sara and wanting to date Sara. His little comment to Catherine as he asked her if he had a chance with Sara. See...I have thought and still think that Greg has a thing for Sara. I just don't see Nick and Greg as gay or bisexual men. Sorry...not trying to offend here at all...I do respect everyone opinions...I was just dishing out mine. But if this ship became canon ...I'd be very upset that Nick was taken by a man...and Cath couldn't have him. But I'd get over it!

 

Re: The Great Ship Debate

You can't? :lol: Give Sony a few more years.

*changes topic because she has nothing to add*
What are people thinking about the 'new' Wendy and Hodges ship? Too much pairing on the shows, should they be sticking to the lives of the main characters, or is it the best thing ever?