Whilst I'm relived to see the show getting a season 8 I can't help but wonder just how low it can sink lets face it S7 was bad enough when for some bizzare reason TPTB decided to go all Murder She Wrote when was the last time you turned on a computer and saw a murder for example? It couldn't have been more obvious who was going to die if they had painted a target on the back of Bill's head, in general the writing for S7 was poor and getting worse by he minute what's next Mr Green killed with the candlestick in the freshfruit aisle during Lindsay's next Supermarket run?Then there is Jo has anyone checked to see if it's short for Jonah because the last time a debut flopped so badly was the Titanic she wasn't wanted in the first place and she isn't now. Not only do the truly lousy ratings since she arrived scream just how much she's disliked at the top of their voices but take a look at the fanfic on Fanfic.net since last september there are roughly 312 new fics re: Smacked and a princely sum of roughly 12 fics mentioning Jo in any sort of main capacity at all doesn't take a mathematical genius to workout who the lion's share of the audience wants to see back come S8 now does it? I think I can speak for us all when I say we don't particularly care what happened inbetween S6 and S7 but for the good of the show we need an end to the cut off my nose to spite my own face and hope the entire audience develops amnesia policy of Pam Veasey's since the show needs to get as many viewers back as it possibly can since even the loyalst fan must admit to being suprised at a S8 being commisioned at all and the onlu way to do that is to re-introduce our Stella/Smacked asap. TPTB did themselves no favours by omitting Stella from EXIT STRATEGY which at the time was thought to be the final episode, this is the woman who with Mac was witness to Danny and Lindsay's wedding, was waiting outside the Prison for Hawkes, sat outside Flack's hospital room all night when he was injured, saved Sid's life when he had his allergic reaction back in the 3rd series and saved Adam's job for him when he was about to be made redundant not to mention six years of wonderful Smacked moments( just count the hugs ) so how can it possibly be right she doesn't even rate a single one nod akin to Aiden who was killed off back in the S2. It was a massive insult to everyone who has watched since the beginning and loyaly carried on doing so during S7 despite the many critics, the viewers who GS claims to care about not to mention both charater and actress whom GS insists is his friend and who without there would be no show at all nevermind a S8. Think on Mr Sinise you have let an already hugely disenchanted audience down very badly on this so why should we continue to watch CSI:NY at all? It would go a long way to having our faith in the show restored if the next time we see Mac if he's telling anyone who will listen just what a wonderful vacation he's had visiting Stella in New Orleans a long, long way. Might I also suggest the new Sergeant Messer becoming Mac's no2 since he now presumably as the seniority and quite frankly if Ward doesn't go then the show will. I would also love to see Louie again, just what would Danny sacrifice to protect his brother? His career? His friends?His marrige? Then there is Flack it's about time he had someone to spar with again we all miss Jess don't we? How about having Don Flack Snr visit 2 Flacks for the price of 1 that could be fun. Adam is getting to long in the tooth to be the baby how about a mini me for him, someone for the team to train up like they did with Aiden/Danny/Lindsay in the past. That brings me back to Stella three little words here people CSI:New Orleans you would have 'em queing around the block for that (hint to TPTB:If ever a spinoff show was crying to be made then this it folks)not to mention her mysterieous past. What was her mother called? Was her death an accident? What happened to her father? How is Professor P involved in it all? There is enough there to keep her busy with Mac's help ofcourse indefinately never mind just S8. Failing all else if nothing but dragging MK back by the curls and handcuffing her to the set will get her to return then have Mac send her roses for her birthday or be seen calling her, give the audience a reason to believe in the show again, a reason to watch. You can't replace the irreplacable and TPTB need to stop trying to,nobody can hold a candle to our Stella and it's idiotic not to mention pointless to keep trying. Jo doesnot have the hearts and minds of the audience and never will, to my mind the show didn't so much escape cancellation by the skin of it's teeth but by it's bloody gums. Like it or not Smacked/Stella is a gigantic part of CSI:NY and therefore MK/Stella has massive influence over the show's audience and what it chooses on a Friday night. A massive influence CSI:NY badly needs just to continue to survive, like I've already the writing needs to improve drastically and Jo Danville needs to go before the show does. Ever wonder why shows like NCIS, LAW & ORDER SVU or CSI :VEGAS continue to prosper the way they do? It's because their writing and producing staff bother to listen to what it is their audience wants to achieve, they treat the audience with some respect, they do everything in their power to work with us viewers not against them like CSI:NY has done for the best part of the last 2 seasons, no-one wants to see the show cancelled and I do firmly believe this is one pheonix that cam be reborn from the ashes if TPTB do what they should have done all along and listens to it's audience.
Geez, what's SO hard to understand in "Melina LEFT THE SHOW (ABRUPTLY)"? :wtf: I am so happy that CSI: NY will be back next season. So happy for the cast and crew!
I would expect that Nielson households are both contacted and expected to operate in confidence. For those interested, FAQs from Nielson Media Research (hope the link's ok, didn't have space to paraphrase ) Aww, nooOoOo :lol:. I hope ya change yer mind & remain part of the realm. Would be a shame to see you just amble away, kicking cans indifferently as you go . Agree on S6. I was not surprised to see the show shunted to Fridays after the average standard produced in the last 3 seasons. S7 was definitely a step in the right direction, and as there will (hopefully) be 22 episodes to further turn things around, those 22 chances will be worth it to me to tune in. Dare I utter that had MK remained with the show, I suspect we really would simply have gotten more of the same that S6 brought us? It's not that I wanted anyone to leave, but her departure ensured at least some sort of change was coming, and that's when things became interesting for me again. That promise of potential was built on in S7, and why I'll be back for S8. Well, I do differ in opinion on S4, not the apex for me anyways :lol:. As for SW, I think she brings a different kind of chemistry; I don't think she's lacking. -- Mulled, decided to engage. ("" ever present) I just have a small general observation, along the lines of wondering about an apparent aversion to punctuation and formatting . Shows like NCIS and CM have also done web based murder cases. Murder She Wrote gets around. That Bill was going to be be a "bad" cop was the more obvious aspect of his appearance, less that he was going to cark it. That said, NY has displayed a tendency to kill off people I think would have been great to keep around :lol:. EJO's character, for one. I suppose DJE & John Larroquette should count themselves lucky . Personally, I think Fonda was great in his arc, and suspect he would have had a great deal of fun with all that was asked of him :lol:. More on that in some of the other seasonal-type grading threads I've not managed to hit yet. Strangely, I could see them making an ep out of how and why a candlestick was in the produce aisle. :lol: ...not quite catching the allusion here. Are you suggesting that Jo should be tossed overboard, as Jonah was, in order to save a ship? IE a tv Ship? Dare I offer an alternate take, that Stella jumped over of her own accord after 3 very mediocre seasons, and that the show has now begun to right itself due changes it was obliged to make? . Jo's entrance into NY was boldly made. Understandable. While unsubtle, it was also not without fun. For me, she also had a curve of improvement and integration. It took some time for her to wholly win me over. She still did. (I could say the same of Stella). I think SW also mentioned that her first days on set were filming 2 eps at the same time (?). My point being that she and the show were damn near to improvising in figuring out how to present her character early on. I'd say they did pretty well. Sure she was. Sure she is. I was keen to see a new character come on board. And I'm glad she's now a part of the show. I might suggest that there's overmuch significance ascribed. It doesn't take a mathematical genius to work out that Stella's 140 eps over six years ensures her greater general prevalence over that of Jo, who has 22 eps to her name, starting in, oh, September; nor that the princely sum of Smack FF is most likely written by those who may (a) have a general predisposition to romance and ship based fics, (b) have an interest in exploring this particular ship and/or these specific characters involved, (c) possibly pursue certain scenarios as wish fulfillment, or by some who may even view or use them as a kind of catharsis, (d) simply be interested foremost in writing, perhaps even undertaking requests and/or challenges from others to produce stories along certain themes in certain realms, etc; it is also probable that there were not 312 different authors. That's about all I'd conclude. FF authors and their preferences are not necessarily proportionally representative of those within any show's larger viewing audience, nor are fans who may be among those more vocal in the brave new-media world. It would seem that quiet millions of folk, perhaps that lion's share, were happy enough to tune in and see Jo as part of NY in S7. I might go so far as to say that FF authors are a certain demo in themselves, but comprised from a derivation that crosses several others. FF submissions in general are not a litmus test for a show's success. FF.net may profit. Prime time does not. No, you cannot. Thanks all the same. Yes and no. Surprised because seven years is a very long time for a show to run, and I believe most contracts were built around that lifespan. If ever there was a time when a network would be likely to not renew a show, it would be where there were the fewest penalties in doing so. Surprised because Friday is a tough night to air on for any show. Surprised because NY has been an underdog from day one as a second spin off, and third in a franchise, and there are no guarantees. Less surprised because CSI as a franchise remains a big cash earner for CBS, and NY is still helping the network make money. Also because S7 was a reasonable performer despite the move. It also helped to launch Blue Bloods, and outlasted a CM spin-off & the show it was bumped to make room for, Defenders. Some combo of business & intangibles earned NY another round. Hard to "reintroduce" a relationship that never was. I think NY is fine without Stella. MK would also seem to be of the same opinion, given she chose to move on. The producers also seemed happy to keep looking forward. I'm not anti-ship, nor am I anti-smack. I do take issue with the likes of "let's blatantly contrive to put certain interests ahead of any & all others in the pursuit of rectifying a perceived omission, by campaigning to insert a never previously romantic relationship into a show that's not a soap drama but a forensic crime procedural, where one character within said pairing is no longer available, in a move that would ultimately close doors on various opportunities for the leading character who remains, and usurp scant screen time available, also thereby shortchanging the current roster, because a handful among a ship demo still refuse, a year after the fact, to accept that Stella is gone & that smack may never be made canon." I don't see what the issue is. Stella was mentioned in an ep aired just earlier. She is alive, still contributing to the shared law enforcement endeavor. Aiden was lost to it. Given that the finale was in part about the risks & cost suffered in the course of all their service, perhaps it was more profound to have a small nod to Aiden in the finale, indicating her involvement in that one unsolved case, thereby getting some additional closure for her too? Perhaps not everything is about Stella. I don't see it that way. I felt the focus was appropriate, both in the approach the show took with the City Never Sleeps, and in Mac being the emblem and vehicle in presenting what they have all managed to contribute in "doing their part." Disenchantment in the face of change is understandable. Perpetually looking for somewhere to lash out and hurl some sense of blame & judgement because there was change in the show to be accomodated, less so. First it was MK, then PV, then CBS and the whole show, SW was facing an uphill battle at best with some, now Gary's hauled forward. I do not doubt that GS cares about his fans and viewers of the show; he seems quite gracious in how he interacts when meeting them in person, in his endeavors within the digital realm, in promoting the show as best he can. As for GS and MK, I will take each at their word, that they are friends and continue to support one another. Neither MK nor GS have "let anyone down." Neither have the producers. It's a tv show. I don't recall Vanessa Ferlito suffering abuse for her choice to leave. People come, people go. Especially on a show that's been on for so many years. Melina left of her own accord. Last word I read was that a wage freeze was a consideration but that it ultimately came down to her feeling that it was "just time." Sela Ward was approached on extremely short notice, decided the timing was right for her too, took on the challenge, mostly blindly, of accepting a substantial assignment with no small risk attached. The show had to re-visit scripts and stories that had been in the works for weeks if not months. S7 was a pleasant surprise, all things considered. I think it's ridiculous to hold GS, MK, SW, or any other cast member responsible for unrealized ship desires. The producers also didn't just shove Stella out the door or kill her, they wrote her up the ladder in a place still struggling to rebuild. Not a bad out. The sense of entitlement, not to mention the serial pursuit of unwarranted scapegoats, seems grossly misplaced. If Messer accepts the promotion to Sergeant, it would presumably require his being transferred in order to accomodate an appropriate assignment in being one. Sgt. Messer was also created as a DL conundrum. Yet one more avenue wherein it'd be great if Danny got some individual attention but will be likely be used in service of the only relationship on the show that is canon. Not likely how a frustrated Smack fan can look to oust Jo, sry :lol:. Quite frankly, Ward is one reason the show managed to carry on into S7, and is part of a show that got itself a S8. So would I. But methinks he might be dead. I'd be happy to see Danny get some material that doesn't somehow shortchange him in favor of catering to DL. It would seem to nearly be a case of how the show is sacrificing Danny . It would be great to meet Flack Sr. at some point. Looks like Hawkes is the latest on the romance merry-go-round, and so I guess we'll have Don as single awhile longer. I'd be happy to see Sam back too, if there's a way to integrate that into a case. ...Cos Haylen Kaye Sullivan Becall worked out so well in that vein for the show... :lol: I don't think Adam's presented as the baby, but as an "atypical" NYPD tech to counter the others. I think Sid is similarly an unconventional personality. Three little words, Melina Kanakaredes Left. Who knows, offer her up the lead on another spin-off, perhaps she'd be interested - or perhaps she's really and truly happy pursuing the projects that she decided to leave CSI:NY for. Other words: Zuiker pretty much stated that NY would be it. Other thoughts: given how CBS' latest effort at a spin-off went, and how the other CSI shows are also faring, I'd not be hopeful of anything else happening in the franchise realm anytime soon . So, not so much CSI:NO, a forensic crime procedural set in the Big Easy, as CSI:Bonasera, back-story mining, will we ever discover her truths ? . Yep, perfectly fits the mandate of the franchise :lol:. What would happen should the spin-off have Stella enlist the aid of someone other than Mac...? ...cos nothing says "I hugely appreciate all your work over the years and sincerely respect and fully support your decision to leave and pursue other avenues in your life and career" like abducting one by the hair and restraint thru handcuffs :lol: . Stella was certainly replaceable. So was Aiden, Warrick, Grissom, Speed, et al. When a cast shifts, it's not idiotic or pointless for a show to have the creativity and wherewithal to address the transition. Exactly what else is a show supposed to do? For me, Jo easily holds her own. No candles required. This royal we again begs to differ. My heart an' mind have come to like her dandyo. It is too bad that she'll apparently never be given a fair chance by some. Smack is a ship identifier, Stella a fictional character, MK an actor formerly on the show. They don't have direct sway over anyone. People choose what they want to watch or DVR. All on their own. Viewers and fans will definitely have some connection and feelings about the actors and characters, but all of them, not just Stella. Plz to note that not everyone is by default a Smack shipper, nor necessarily a shipper of anyone at all. To survive will require good writing, promotion, support, and would regardless of where slotted in the schedule. If any element of the Smack-based ship/fan demo truly had as much sway as repeatedly proffered, Smack would be a canon based debate, not an FF one. (An aside, thank teh freakin' gads that NY never put their leads together. Look what's to befall House, and Huddy fans). The L&O franchise has made it's own mark on tv history, just as CSI has. But NCIS is the only show that has flourished in recent years. SVU and Vegas have both had their own issues to battle. SVU fans will additionally be facing their own changes/challenges with Hargitay asking for her ep count to be reduced. Ditto Vegas with Helgenberger. NCIS has managed to maintain a balance in humor, character material, and cases, within a certain set of parameters, and did so not without it's own drama behind the scenes. The show and what it has achieved is really quite unique, especially as it has increased it's viewers and ratings over time, where shows generally tend to wane. Which opinions of their respective audience members do they listen to? Some people like Vegas' Ray, some people don't, for example. NY did treat their viewers with respect. In getting someone of SW's caliber to join the show, in creating a fun character for her, in shaking up the labs and poking everyone, in the guests they enlisted, in how they approached the S7 (and at the time possible series) finale, and not least in where they wrote Stella as having moved on to, and in what capacity. About the only thing we'll apparently agree on is that we don't wish to see the show cancelled. Beyond that, we're at YMMV . - @Geeno lolz. I admire your brevity :lol:
No, you can't and it would be appreciated if you stopped 'speaking for us all' when you share YOUR point of view. I personally was never fond of Stella and I also didn't see the slightest chemistry between Mac Taylor and her. On the contrary, they worked as friends but that's about it. Stella was way too dominant and bossy, in my opinion, which made her so much more annoying to watch. I think Sela Ward is a beautiful as well as charismatic actress and I'm glad she joined the show. She brought fresh wind and a new dynamic to CSI: NY that was really needed. I love Jo's interaction with everyone and that special charm she radiates. I'm looking forward to see more of her and I don't miss Stella the slightest bit. In fact, it seems to me that there's such a great dynamic between Sela and the whole cast that it contributes a lot more sincerity on camera. I have never been a fan of creating 'love' relationships between main characters. CSI: NY is supposed to be a crime based show and that's why I watch not because I can't wait until certain characters hook up with each other. The whole Danny/Lindsay storyline doesn't do it for me and it distracts my pleasure of enjoying the show and what it is really about. That's actually one reason why I stopped watching once, because the cheesiness between Danny & Lindsay felt like pure torture.
Elwood I agree with all your points about Phantomerik's post. I am just so tired of Melina/Stella fans posting the same comments (about her sudden departure) all over again (not only in this site). I can't help but snark. I know it's their right but please give the show, Sela/Jo etc. a break.
I do agree with most of what was said in Phantomerik's post - don't know about fan fics though. Not every actor or actress suit all roles and although I think that Sela's best scenes are with her adopted daughter and ex-husband played by David James Elliott. The scenes in the lab and with the rest of the CSI cast fall somewhat flat and there seems to be something missing and sorry to offend by using the word boring. Sela suits divource mum with emotional problems or my personal favourite her role in 'The Fugitive', but she is not really FBI or Detective material. I think one example of this is Sela's guest starring role in 'House' where although she played her lawyer in an hospital most of her scenes were of emotional ones with Gregory House (which as I say she does very well) and less of her playing a lawyer. I'll say no more on that. Moving on - may I say that no one knows why Melina left, but lets be honest the CBS honchos last year seemed to be penalising some of the actresses from their procedural dramas, Criminal Minds comes to minds and I guess may be Melina was a casualty of this, especially as CSI writers and producers were expecting her back for season 7. However, no one can deny Melina can play a Crime Scene Investigator and her scenes with the rest of the cast were just fantastic - as the past six seasons proved. Perhaps the producers will try and please everyone, by starting season 8 with Jo then she leaves (may be adopted daughter goes in to witness protection) then bring back Stella for the second half, as it would be good to finish the programme how it started with most of the original cast except for Aiden because of course it would be hard to bring her back from the dead.
PHANTOMERIK, as much as I share a sizable portion of your opinion, even I as a recovering Stella/Melina fan am starting to get tired of your posts derailing this thread. Now granted, I miss Stella terribly and hope that perhaps we can have an implied instance that Mac at least goes to see Stella for once while this show lasts. However, as much as I still feel deeply scarred by Stella's departure from the show, putting the leading man and leading lady together in a romantic pairing on a show like CSI would've been a huge mistake. Throughout this time, even before I got Pearl Harbor-ed last year, I never saw Mac and Stella getting together unless one of them transferred to a separate department. Shows like CSI:NY aren't suitable for serious ships between leading characters. D/L is a whole different calibre, involving two non-leading characters. Oh that's classy man. Definately not helping in our fanbases' cause. If I were you, I'd revise it to say "I'd move mountians to convince MK to come back to the show". Definately not dragging by curls nor handcuffing to the poles. How can MK or Sela Ward for all we know, be able to shoot scenes when their handcuffed onto the set poles? :lol: Leave that to the white light (From 1982's "Poltergeist") to get MK back. As for me, I would definately move mountians to have MK back on the show down the road. In fact, I would fight enemy armies just to see where the show has Stella AND Jo on-screen together. Why should both sides of the audience have one and not the other? Like I said PHANTOMERIK, I DO share much of what you believe or are arguing but Elwood21 also has a point, posts like this belong on another thread such as 'Dislike a Ship' or elsewhere such as the Stella/Melina thread. Bringing her up as a subject is fine and all that. It's just the manner you have isn't helping any side. Like I said phantomerik, I stand by at least 80% of what you're arguing about. Yet even I see where it crosses from standing up for something one misses or wishes to return, to just mere trolling. I saw for the sake of not irritating the mods on here.
I have read this thread with great interest (and have also inputted myself) and I believe that there is never going to be a winner between the Melina/Stella and Sela/Jo argument and it could go on forever. However, the fall in ratings for season 7 does seem to back those who have been disappointed with the season and I do believe the producers need to work hard on season 8 to get the fans back on board and may need to think about revising some characters roles and this could well include less of Jo and may be bringing back Stella for one or two episodes (if Melina will appear). I am unsure if CSI or CBS producers listen to the viewers or read these chat pages to find out what fans think, which would be a good idea and may help make season 8 a better one then season 7.
OK, first a meta-observation: You really need to hit that "Enter" key once in a while. Paragraphs are your friend. Without them, your post is almost unreadable. Having said that, as I was swiftly scrolling past, I did notice your mention of these three series whose "prosperity" is open to debate. Of the three, only "NCIS" has improved its ratings in recent years; the other two are in a bit of a ratings freefall, so I'm not sure they really support your point. While "SVU" is faring best of the series in the "Law & Order" franchise, that's not saying much, as both the mothership and the L.A. spin-off have been cancelled, and "Criminal Intent" was moved to the USA Network (from what I understand, Season 10 is supposed to be its last season). "SVU"'s struggles are due in great part to its revolving door, "now you see them, now you don't" cast of characters, and also by turning it from an ensemble show into the Benson & Stabler show. When you take a police procedural and turn it into a glorified soap opera, it may win over some fans over the short term, but it generally doesn't work over the long term in a show that follows a police procedural format. (This is borne out by the ratings, which held their own through Season 7 but have been sliding ever since.) That's especially true when you consider how the mothership approached personal DRAMA in such a low-key manner, and was highly successful with that approach over its 20-season run. The "CSI" franchise has -- wisely, IMO -- largely steered clear of the soap suds. Even on the mothership, where the relationship between Grissom and Sara was consummated, it was done in a very low-key manner. My personal preference was that the powers that be not go down that road, but since they did, they handled it about as well as I could have expected. The problem is that now Grissom is gone; Petersen chose to leave in much the same way that Melina did (though my understanding is that Petersen gave a good deal more advance notice than Melina did, giving the writers time to craft his exit story). Laurence Fishburne, and the way his character has been integrated into the team, has proven to be an imperfect replacement, I think because the powers that be started him out well as a sort of "graduate student" who had a lot to learn, but then insisted on fast-tracking him into a leadership role (and also putting waaay too much focus on the Haskell storyline, which by season's end had veered dangerously close to soap opera territory). "NCIS" (a show I never watch, by the way) started out slowly but has gained momentum as the years go by. My understanding, based on reading comments from people who do watch it, is that this is because even though the team has a charismatic leader (Mark Harmon, the series' star), they are also a team, and the powers that be have never lost sight of that fact; they have kept it an ensemble show, rather than putting too much focus on certain individuals. And they consistently inject humor into the team's interactions with one another, creating a camaraderie that is tangible to the viewing audience. That's especially important, given the grim surroundings the characters often find themselves in; humor gives the show a much-needed balance that makes it more accessible to viewers. I'm not sure any of this really supports your opinion that "CSI: New York" needs Melina back to create something other than a friendship and professional relationship between Stella and Mac, thus "saving" its ratings. We can't underestimate the move to Fridays and how that impacted its ratings. The same is true of the Miami spin-off, where ratings have similarly dropped since the show was moved to Sunday nights. And I have to wonder if moving the mothership to Wednesday nights will have a similar effect. We shall see!
The fall of ratings IMO is mostly due to the fact that most people go out on Fridays and are not home to catch a show. Ratings weren't so different when Melina/Stella was around in season 6.